mRNA Vaccines- an overnight success after 40 years of research

[emeryjre]

I have heard it said many times that mRNA vaccines came out too quickly.
I do not believe this and time will tell who is right.
Here is a history of mRNA development and the years of research that has taken place.
If you have not heard or read the story, it is a fascinating read.

The tangled history of mRNA vaccines (nature.com)

 

[Sandi Bo]

I have heard it said many times that mRNA vaccines came out too quickly. i
I do not believe this and time will tell who is right.
Here is a history of mRNA development and the years of research that has taken place.
If you have not heard or read the story, it is a fascinating read.

The tangled history of mRNA vaccines (nature.com)

One of my kids works for a pharmaceutical company. So knowing this kind of stuff was right up her ally. I was at first surprised when she was so comfortable when the vaccine came out. It shocked me when it was out within a year, but she replied how long they had been working on it (and rolled up her sleeve as soon as she could).

Comically she is pregnant and congested and frustrated that the ob/gyn gives them a list of products they can take. She says 'why can tell just tell us what actives are safe and what to avoid, I'll figure out what product I can take (because the product names have almost all changed since the list was first published)). Life with nerds.

 

[Brett]

not sure it's been "overnight" but mRNA vaccines are leading (not bleeding) edge technology

https://newatlas.com/medical/mrna-vaccine-cancer-immunotherapy-early-human-trial-biontech/

 

[emeryjre]

not sure it's been "overnight" but mRNA vaccines are leading (not bleeding) edge technology

https://newatlas.com/medical/mrna-vaccine-cancer-immunotherapy-early-human-trial-biontech/

I was trying to do a play on words. Like a band that has been slogging through the bar scene for 10 years and suddenly has a number one hit

 

[Brett]

I was trying to do a play on words. Like a band that has been slogging through the bar scene for 10 years and suddenly has a number one hit

 

[easyrider]

I have heard it said many times that mRNA vaccines came out too quickly.
I do not believe this and time will tell who is right.
Here is a history of mRNA development and the years of research that has taken place.
If you have not heard or read the story, it is a fascinating read.

The tangled history of mRNA vaccines (nature.com)

There is no doubt that mRNA vaccines took decades of research to get them to the point of creating a vaccine. The created quickly statement is also true because these were created and approved in about 1 year compared to a product like the mumps vaccine which took about 4 years to approve. For many, it is the circumvention of the FDA approval process and many other factors as simple as just being a new technology that concerns them.

Before the EUA was approved the FDA did accept resignations of two of the lead FDA scientist that had objections to these vaccines. The objections were over clinical data that could not be provided and data that was unproven. The other objection was pressure from political figures.

Dr Eric Rubin is the on the FDA board to approve drugs and he said "“We’re never going to learn about how safe the vaccine is unless we start giving it,” . “That’s just the way it goes.”

Dr Patrick Moore voted for approval of mRNA vaccines and his reason for a yes was "the data the company submitted for authorization of a booster was not well explained," adding he voted yes more on “gut feeling.

There are too many issues to put in one post but I do think these vaccines did work and that at this point anyone that wanted to be vaccinated has been vaccinated. Those that do not want to participate in the covid vaccination program would likely rather take their chances for many reasons and that is their choice.

Bill

 

[emeryjre]

I did not blindly accept the mRNA vaccines. It may seem like it sometimes because of my enthusiasm for them, especially when they first came out. If you look at my posts at the time, I was stoked.

I have followed the development of plenty of vaccines and cures over the years. I have done well on a couple of stock picks that overcame my losses on others.

I live in an area where many early medical discoveries were and are being made. I have some interesting and intelligent neighbors that work in the field of bioscience.

There were many lively discussions about mRNA and vaccines during the period between March 2020 and the release of the first Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. None of the people I was interacting with were directly involved in the development but they knew what was going on.

I trust these people. They are not reckless or glory seeking. We had discussions about safety, about the unknowns. They did not see big risks being taken. Just breakthroughs in the production of new materials. None of which anybody is anxious to provide to China, Russia, or India.

There were naysayers, but not in the group. They were discussed and dismissed for various reasons.

The bottom line is I trust these people who understand this information as well as anyone. They are excited for the future with mRNA technology. We regard the naysayers as being similar to the people that object to GMO seed and food.

Only time will tell.

 

[bluehende]

Before the EUA was approved the FDA did accept resignations of two of the lead FDA scientist that had objections to these vaccines. The objections were over clinical data that could not be provided and data that was unproven. The other objection was pressure from political figures.

That was only reported that way on right wing news. In their statement they said it was for family reasons. But sure

 

[SueDonJ]

Isn't it worth noting that the mRNA vaccine technology was pretty far advanced by the time COVID-19 presented, and that at that point the bulk of the work still to be done involved sequencing the virus and plugging it in to the work already done so that the vaccines would be specific to the original virus strain?

I also live in an area rich with medical and research facilities, along with respected media outlets (newspapers and medical/technological journals included) that published a good deal of information about pandemics, vaccines and COVID-19. There was plenty of information to be found if someone wanted to find it, but maybe it was more publicized in areas local to the producers?

 

[easyrider]

That was only reported that way on right wing news. In their statement they said it was for family reasons. But sure

It was on msm like CBS that these scientist left and the reason given was what I posted above. I think the statement you are referring too is what President Joe Biden said when he appointed Janet Woodcock to the FDA. There were many objections of her appointment because she presided over the biggest fail in FDA history regarding opioids.

The appointment of Janet Woodcock with her FDA history is just another reason many people are not convinced that the mRNA vaccines are safe.

Having to go to court to get clinical data released is another reason many do not trust Pfizer and the FDA. Pfizer wanted 70 years to release their data but is now forced to do so by a Judge. Much of the data reveals that Pfizer and the FDA knew what could go wrong.

The fact that the vaccine needs to refrigerated to minus 90 fh gives concerns to many. The fact that the vaccine didn't stop transmission is a concern. Now, looking at released data it looks like there wasn't much difference between placebo groups and vaccinated groups in the data regarding vaccine caused mortality that you and I were looking at yesterday. It actually looked to me like mRNA vaccines are more problematic than adenovirus vaccines regarding coronary deaths reported after vaccination in the study. I think we agree on that much.

I'm sure there are many objections to both types of vaccines even though they do save lives in the long run. I'm certain that any information at this point does nothing to change anyone's mind regarding vaccine hesitancy or vaccine choice. People that want them received them and people that don't want them will never take them.

The reason I went the adenovirus vaccination is this product has been in use for decades without much problem. I trust a track record.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

Isn't it worth noting that the mRNA vaccine technology was pretty far advanced by the time COVID-19 presented, and that at that point the bulk of the work still to be done involved sequencing the virus and plugging it in to the work already done so that the vaccines would be specific to the original virus strain?

Yes, it is definitely worth noting but also worth noting is no long term clinical data couldn't be provided for either of the mRNA vaccines. In the FDA own words they were guessing or had a gut feeling regarding long term clinical data. I hope they guessed good, lol.

Bill

 

[emeryjre]

Isn't it worth noting that the mRNA vaccine technology was pretty far advanced by the time COVID-19 presented, and that at that point the bulk of the work still to be done involved sequencing the virus and plugging it in to the work already done so that the vaccines would be specific to the original virus strain?

I also live in an area rich with medical and research facilities, along with respected media outlets (newspapers and medical/technological journals included) that published a good deal of information about pandemics, vaccines and COVID-19. There was plenty of information to be found if someone wanted to find it, but maybe it was more publicized in areas local to the producers?

Sue,
It was still only of interest at the time to people involved in biosciences. (IMHO). One of my wine drinking buddies works in the field and couldn't talk about anything else for weeks as things were developing.

I believe it became of interest to others when certain media outlets, masquerading as news outlets, discovered spinning and creating fear narratives for mRNA vaccines attracted listeners and subscribers.

 

[emeryjre]

Initially the vaccine did block infections! This fact has been forgotten in all the fear mongering. As the strains changed, the ability to protect disappeared.

 

[emeryjre]

Bill,

Have you read the article?

 

[emeryjre]

#46 had nothing to do with the approvals. They were all done under #45. It was the FDA of #45 under which all of this was carried out. Another fact conveniently forgotten by many.

 

[MrockStar]

I haven't, it was one of his best accomplishments and we all owe him a debt of gratitude for Millions of lives saved. Thank you 45.

 

[emeryjre]

I haven't, it was one of his best accomplishments and we all owe him a debt of gratitude for Millions of lives saved. Thank you 45.

Absolutely one of his best accomplishments. But when there are questions about the FDA approval process, it is always #46's fault. As Bill pointed out above, it was some FDA appointment by #46 that is a problem in the approval process. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

 

[MrockStar]

Copy that.

 

[easyrider]

Bill,

Have you read the article?

Yes. Interesting is the article actually gives credit to Robert Malone but then spreads credit around for the sake of some one winning a Nobel. I wonder if Dr Malone's narrative will change if he is nominated.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

Absolutely one of his best accomplishments. But when there are questions about the FDA approval process, it is always #46's fault. As Bill pointed out above, it was some FDA appointment by #46 that is a problem in the approval process. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

My thought on that is they may need some scapegoats for latter. Who better than Janet Woodcock ? Even though #46 said the words I think he just agreed with someone else's decision. Of course, this is just my jaded opinion.

Bill

 

[emeryjre]

Yes. Interesting is the article actually gives credit to Robert Malone but then spreads credit around for the sake of some one winning a Nobel. I wonder if Dr Malone's narrative will change if he is nominated.

Bill

The personal backstabbing and defamation of character surrounding Nobel prizes is legendary.
Malone played an important role, but there are so many pieces to this complex puzzle that were solved by others, it will be hard to pick just one or two people.

 

[emeryjre]

Frankly I don’t believe that #45 or #46 could explain any of the process of how these vaccines work.

 

[MrockStar]

45 didn't need to he assembled the team who completed operation warp speed in record time.

 

[easyrider]

The personal backstabbing and defamation of character surrounding Nobel prizes is legendary.
Malone played an important role, but there are so many pieces to this complex puzzle that were solved by others, it will be hard to pick just one or two people.

I think Penn Med's team Weissman and Kariko would be a likely choice for the Nobel. They were already awarded the Lasker for developing rna tech used in both Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. They appear in your linked article as good choices.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

Frankly I don’t believe that #45 or #46 could explain any of the process of how these vaccines work.

I agree and would add that the majority of politicians and probably everyone are not able either. My bet is 1 out of 500 might know what rna stands for and 1 out of 1000 might know the basic relationship of rna to dna.

Bill