What is wrong with people who refuse to pay for a service they scheduled?

[rickandcindy23]

We have a chimney cleaning business and have had it for 39 years, the perfect side job for Rick while on the Denver Fire Department. Now our son works with Rick and does the roof work, while Rick does the work on the inside of the fireplace.

Today he drove 26 miles from home to check and clean (if needed) a chimney for a young couple, and when Rick was done with the inspection, and our son was done on the roof, Rick told them they don't need a cleaning, but there are signs that a raccoon has been going in and out of the chimney (raccoon poop on the roof), so apparently a female is going to be nesting soon. This is nesting season. He told them it would be $120 for a chimney cap to fit that bolts on the chimney. Then he told them that the inspection is $120. They refused to pay for the inspection and decided not to buy a cap.

The price is disclosed on the website. The receptionist discloses the cost during the call.

I cannot believe people would do this to Rick and our son. Why would anyone expect something for $0. They are blacklisted in our system, and when they need a service, they can call one of our dishonest competitors. There are many of them out there. Take your pick, from the guy who tells you your chimney needs to be sandblasted, to the guy who never sees a chimney that is operable (that will be $4,000 to fix your chimney).

I am usually more gracious than this, but if a raccoon dies in that chimney (I hope), they are not going to believe that smell.

 

[am1]

People like that come in all shapes and sizes. Best to get paid upfront.

 

[wackymother]

That is CRAZY. So sorry they went through that. They don't have a chimney cap? Wait till a squirrel (or worse) falls down into their house.

 

[dioxide45]

I am not sure what they got for free? It doesn't seem like the cap was installed. Was it the initial inspection that they didn't want to pay for? Are inspections usually free? Do competitors charge for an inspection? The order of the wording wasn't clear as to if the inspection was for the installation of the cap or just the inspection to see if it needed a clean?

 

[Passepartout]

Anytime you're dealing with the public, from time to time, you'll walk away scratching your head.

Just imagine if you're a timeshare developer and all you want is for your buyers to make an annual payment to keep the place up, and they refuse, instead, saying, "Take it back!"

Jim

 

[Luanne]

I am not sure what they got for free? It doesn't seem like the cap was installed. Was it the initial inspection that they didn't want to pay for? Are inspections usually free? Do competitors charge for an inspection? The order of the wording wasn't clear as to if the inspection was for the installation of the cap or just the inspection to see if it needed a clean?

Chimney inspections are not free.

 

[nomoretslt]

I compare that to having a home inspection done.... and if the inspector finds nothing wrong, you don’t pay him? In your case, gas, climbing on the roof, inspecting the chimney, having to carry insurance for the company, why would anyone expect that to be free?

Believe it or not we never had a cap on our chimney. We should have (had a couple of dead squirrels end up in the fireplace and also rain water sometimes) and when we were selling our house we did get one installed as I think it may have been a requirement. We were lucky we never had a raccoon. There were a couple of news stories in our state where a rapid raccoon came down a chimney and attacked people sleeping.

People really are awful sometimes. Probably better off not doing anything further for them....who knows what they wouldn’t pay for next.

 

[pedro47]

Sound liked this homeowner is going to place a cap on the chimney himself.
Your spouse told him the problem and the solution to the problem.
Good luck trying to recoup your money.

 

[dioxide45]

I compare that to having a home inspection done.... and if the inspector finds nothing wrong, you don’t pay him? In your case, gas, climbing on the roof, inspecting the chimney, having to carry insurance for the company, why would anyone expect that to be free?

While I don't have any inherent first hand knowledge of chimney inspections. I kind of liken it to the roof inspection and gutter inspection ads one often sees. Or the free 23 point inspection on your car when you go in for an oil change. The inspection is there as a loss leader to find work. You do the inspection for free knowing that 50% of the inspections will require additional labor and thus you get jobs and turn a profit. I guess chimney inspections are different?

Home inspections are usually done for different reasons and the person doing the inspection is not usually the person fixing the problems.

 

[dioxide45]

Shouldn't there be some kind of agreement signed or initialed up front disclosing the cost of the inspection and what it entails? If the inspection fee is not paid a mechanic's lien could be applied to the property.

 

[Ty1on]

I say catch a coon and drop it down their flue

 

[Luanne]

Shouldn't there be some kind of agreement signed or initialed up front disclosing the cost of the inspection and what it entails? If the inspection fee is not paid a mechanic's lien could be applied to the property.

From Cindy's first post:

The price is disclosed on the website. The receptionist discloses the cost during the call.

 

[DrQ]

When you do the initial inspection, do they sign an agreement (contract) giving your husband and son permission to do the inspection? If so, you might put the language in there that includes the inspection fee. That would allow you to pursue the matter in small claims or maybe attach a mechanic's lien against the property.

 

[tschwa2]

Since it isn't my business I am going to quote the website- Cindy correct me if this is not the one.

We charge a flat rate of $110.00 to inspect your fireplace and chimney anywhere in the Denver area and suburbs. Trip charges apply to any location outside of the Denver/Metro area. For example: a $10-$30 charge does apply to areas around Boulder.

If your chimney needs to be cleaned, our prices start at $179 for a regular fireplace, which includes the NFPA Level 1 inspection and trip.
Freestanding wood stoves may be slightly higher, up to $30.00 over the cost of a fireplace, if we have to take apart the stove or chimney pipe in order to clean all areas of the system.

Inserts are wood stoves that use a fireplace to vent and sometimes must be moved out of the fireplace opening to allow a thorough cleaning. If we move the insert and put it back, our charge is $259. If you move the insert yourself, the price would be the same as a Free Standing Wood Stove. (Please note the insert must be moved completely away from the fireplace opening.)

My suggestion- this is what our HVAC person does say the fee to come out and inspect is $110 ( additional trip charges may apply). If your chimney needs to be cleaned the $110 fee would apply toward the cost of cleaning which start at $179 for a regular fireplace, etc.

 

[dioxide45]

From Cindy's first post:

The price is disclosed on the website. The receptionist discloses the cost during the call.

I get it, but that doesn't directly answer the question. If there is a signed agreement, then that can be enforced. Though probably not worth it for $120. I am certainly not saying the homeowners are in the right here. Far from it. As with anything, we come across different people every day and learn from the experience then make changes to protect ourselves going forward. Another option is for the receptionist to collect payment for the inspection at the time of the appointment. Though that could turn people off and deter appointments.

I agree, it sucks, but in the end, I suppose these kinds of things happen in all trades. There isn't much one can do except learn from it and try to prevent the issue in the future, then move on.

 

[Luanne]

I get it, but that doesn't directly answer the question. If there is a signed agreement, then that can be enforced. Though probably not worth it for $120. I am certainly not saying the homeowners are in the right here. Far from it. As with anything, we come across different people every day and learn from the experience then make changes to protect ourselves going forward. Another option is for the receptionist to collect payment for the inspection at the time of the appointment. Though that could turn people off and deter appointments.

I agree, it sucks, but in the end, I suppose these kinds of things happen in all trades. There isn't much one can do except learn from it and try to prevent the issue in the future, then move on.

I don't know about Cindy's case, but I honestly don't remember signing any agreements ahead of time regarding inspection fees. They are disclosed verbally up front. Maybe all businesses, in order to protect themselves, should start requiring a signed document up front.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I am not sure what they got for free? It doesn't seem like the cap was installed. Was it the initial inspection that they didn't want to pay for? Are inspections usually free? Do competitors charge for an inspection? The order of the wording wasn't clear as to if the inspection was for the installation of the cap or just the inspection to see if it needed a clean?

Yes, inspections are never free. The inspection is most of the charge when the chimney is cleaned. The inspection is $120, the cleaning is $69 additional. Their chimney didn't have any soot buildup.

 

[VacationForever]

I think your husband and son may need to change their billing procedure to avoid this kind of crap in future. The HVAC companies here take a credit card upfront before anyone is sent out.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I don't know about Cindy's case, but I honestly don't remember signing any agreements ahead of time regarding inspection fees. They are disclosed verbally up front. Maybe all businesses, in order to protect themselves, should start requiring a signed document up front.

That is actually a good idea. Rick says this happens about once every 4-5 years. Fees were disclosed over the phone, plus our website discloses the fees.

 

[dioxide45]

That is actually a good idea. Rick says this happens about once every 4-5 years. Fees were disclosed over the phone, plus our website discloses the fees.

If this only happens once every 4-5 years, then the cost of implementing, printing agreements, having it reviewed by an attorney, then getting signatures upfront may be more than just taking the $120 loss every once and a while. Just consider the lost $120 as a cost of doing business.

 

[rickandcindy23]

While I don't have any inherent first hand knowledge of chimney inspections. I kind of liken it to the roof inspection and gutter inspection ads one often sees. Or the free 23 point inspection on your car when you go in for an oil change. The inspection is there as a loss leader to find work. You do the inspection for free knowing that 50% of the inspections will require additional labor and thus you get jobs and turn a profit. I guess chimney inspections are different?

Home inspections are usually done for different reasons and the person doing the inspection is not usually the person fixing the problems.

No, it's totally different. It's not a $8,000-$15,000 job. It's $120 for the inspection, then $69 for the cleaning (this was a house out of our normal cleaning area, which required an additional $10 trip charge. So it's usually $110 + the $69 for the cleaning. Bids happen over the phone. People call until they get a good price, and our price is substantially less than most of our competition's price.

 

[rickandcindy23]

If this only happens once every 4-5 years, then the cost of implementing, printing agreements, having it reviewed by an attorney, then getting signatures upfront may be more than just taking the $120 loss every once and a while. Just consider the lost $120 as a cost of doing business.

Yeah, I am just annoyed right this minute. I will accept the creepiness of this young couple. They are blacklisted, and that is all we can do. We just never go there again for any reason.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Sound liked this homeowner is going to place a cap on the chimney himself.
Your spouse told him the problem and the solution to the problem.
Good luck trying to recoup your money.

Well, the chimney caps we have are bolted to the chimney. Raccoons cannot lift them off. The cheap caps at Home Depot are easy to remove (and they blow off and do damage to cars, too). Nonetheless, there is a charge for an inspection, disclosed via phone and via the website. It's not okay to gyp a service person. Rick is a good guy and knows some people are not nice and don't care that he spent an hour at their house for absolutely nothing, plus the driving to/from.

I answered the phone for 36 years for the business. Talon is very good at disclosing costs.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Calling for a service is not the same as a sales call. You call a company to give you a price on the install of a water softener. The guy does his pitch and leaves with or without a deal. But if you call for a drain that is clogged, you aren't going to get six guys in your house with bids on how much it will be before you make a decision. This was a service call very similar to that.

 

[clifffaith]

Yeah, I am just annoyed right this minute. I will accept the creepiness of this young couple. They are blacklisted, and that is all we can do. We just never go there again for any reason.

We had a customer that needed a service call. At the time of a window coverings sale I’d always say “for the first year we fetch, tote, repair at no charge, after that there is a service call fee”. The fee at the time this customer called was $40 minimum, $40 an hour thereafter. Told her this on the phone. OMG, this ridiculous woman was on the phone to me twice in the 45 minutes Charlie was there telling me “he’s out at his truck again” as if he were padding the bill. Well, that’s where his tools and parts are! Then she wanted me to bill her instead of paying him then and there, then of course she never paid us. About a year later I took great pleasure sitting at my desk listening to her leave a message about needing a service call, and even greater pleasure several weeks later when the next message included “I called a few weeks ago and you didn’t return my call!”.