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Vacation Internationale Information Guide update!

easyrider

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Thanks @easyrider and @sue1947.

From what I gathered Sue, there is no availability in the system for the above locations until early Sep which is 12 month out. For some locations, others may be using the 13 month advantage from RAVC or advanced booking. I was primarily interested in these locations for few days in Waikiki before or after KoOlina. So based on your search, that may not be easy Sue.

From my talk with the VI OC, he stated that I pay full value unless I am within 30 days from check-in which will make it 50% points value.

What is Exclusive Nightly Exchange.

The cost for bonus time is about $80 for a 1 bed unit.

Here is a list of costs.

2021/2022 Prevailing Rates
(effective July 1, 2021 - see here for 2020/21)

(Annual Maintenance updated July of each year)
Combined Annual Assessment Rate$7.98/point
VI Point Rental$11.00/point
Reservation Booking Fee$20.00
Wait List Decline Fee$20.00
Advanced Reservation Wait List
(includes your Reservation Booking Fee)
No fee for request - $200.00 if confirmed
($100.00 decline fee)
Shared Point (or Transferred Point) Fee$20.00
VI Instant Exchange Fees$145.00
Direct Exchange Option (DEO)$145.00
Transfer of Ownership (contract*)$300
Name Change$45.00
Point Protection Option (PPO)**$45.00
Bonus Time$70/St $80/1Br $90/2Br $100/3Br $285/Penthouse
Hot Weeks$310/St $410/1Br $510/2Br $610/3Br
 

samara64

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Also can you book less than a week 12 month out if there is inventory. If not, what is the 1+ night booking window?
 

sue1947

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Also can you book less than a week 12 month out if there is inventory. If not, what is the 1+ night booking window?
you can book any number of days at any time.


From what I gathered Sue, there is no availability in the system for the above locations until early Sep which is 12 month out.
nope. I didn't check the months in between. I just wanted to give you an idea of how quickly things book up. I don't follow those resorts so don't know how difficult they are to book, but they don't book up within minutes of the opening time. However, Sept isn't prime time so that may not be true for when you want to go. When are you at Ko Olina?

What is Exclusive Nightly Exchange.
I have no idea. I'm a resale buyer, actually got it on tug for free, so never paid any attention to the developer perks.
Sue
 

samara64

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When are you at Ko Olina?

I normally go mid to end August and early Sep too. After kids finish summer quarter. So like what is availability now for Sep 21 and Aug / Sep 22 if you have a min to look any one in Waikiki.
 

sue1947

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I normally go mid to end August and early Sep too. After kids finish summer quarter. So like what is availability now for Sep 21 and Aug / Sep 22 if you have a min to look any one in Waikiki.
I think this will work for you.

Checking for this Sept, checking in any day from Sept 10-30 for 3 nights, there is something in one of those resorts for each of those days.

Checking Aug 15-Sept 9 2022 with the same parameters:
There are over 2000 available rooms with something checking in each of those nights.
 

samara64

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Thanks Sue.

And that is all for Waikiki area. 2000 is way more then I need.

Also what is the going rate if you rent points in or out. Did you do so. How easy is it.

For developer purchase, they provide an II account. Since you bought resale, were you able to add your VI account to your II account.
 
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sue1947

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Also what is the going rate if you rent points in or out. Did you do so. How easy is it.

For developer purchase, they provide an II account. Since you bought resale, were you able to add your VI account to your II account.

You can rent points from VI for $11/pt. I've never done it so don't know anything else. I haven't seen any mention of renting points out like you can with WM. You have 4 years to use your points.

I haven't done any exchanging and have no interest in doing so with VI so haven't looked into that aspect.
 

samara64

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I haven't done any exchanging and have no interest in doing so with VI so haven't looked into that aspect.

@sue1947 . You are right. Here is what I got from VI OC.

If you want to use VI with II, you must buy directly from VI in the past 6 years or so. People that bought before, had RCI access but VI does not offer it anymore.

If you buy resale, no access to RCI or II but you can use independent exchange companies by making a booking available to the exchange company.

VI offers an option to qualify your resale purchase by buying more points directly from them for about $7,000.

That also goes for owners for RAVC timeshare that was bought by VI. They too have to buy qualifying points to access these features!!!!.
 

sue1947

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Thanks for the info. I'm satisfied to do all my exchanging through WM which is a strong trader.
 

samara64

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Thanks for the info. I'm satisfied to do all my exchanging through WM which is a strong trader.

Agree in a way. @easyrider I also learned there is no exit option for VI owners.

I also got a hold of the offering docs (attached). Does anyone know what is the end date for the units listed on Page 20 where it said end date like this:

VI PROGRAM INVENTORY

Resort Room Type End Date Whole Units Intervals Points


Sea Mountain 1bd 6/30/2023 2.0 0.00 9,464.00
Sea Mountain 1bd 6/30/2024 9.0 0.00 42,588.00


Does it mean that the unit will no longer be available.

TIA.
 

easyrider

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Agree in a way. @easyrider I also learned there is no exit option for VI owners.

That is why I bought a VI rtu resale contract. Ours will expire in 2022 but I have until 2024 to use up the points. All of our UVCI rtu's expire in 2029. The only contracts we will have left are the WM's.

Bill
 

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I would defiantly encourage anyone considering buying VI points (resale or developer to read attached "Vacation Internationale Trust Agreement and Notice of Timeshare Plan" as it contains very important information:

Page 4 A.1
Right to Use Plan; How Title is Held Generally. This is a right to use timeshare plan. A purchaser
has the right to use any apartment that is in the VI Program (“VI Apartment”) on a reservation basis.
A purchaser DOES NOT acquire a real property interest or title to any VI Apartment. Instead, title to
each VI Apartment located in the United States is held in the Vacation Internationale Trust (“VI
Trust”) for a term of years or in perpetuity.

Page 7 (D paragraph 2)

This balancing procedure may also result in VI Apartments and/or VI Owners being prematurely removed
from the VI Program. For example, if a VI Apartment has been destroyed due to casualty, another apartment
of the approximately same point value must be added, or some VI Owners holding approximately the same
point value will have their use rights terminated prematurely
. Another potential result of the VI Program’s
balancing procedure is that unless new VI Owners join the program to replace VI Owners whose use rights
are naturally expiring, VI Apartments of approximately the same point value will be removed from the VI
Program.

Page 8 (3)

(3) The VI Trust Holds Title to Some VI Apartments for a Limited Time.

(a) The VI Trust holds title to some VI Apartments for a limited time, known as an “Estate for
Years” interest. The attached chart titled “VI Program Inventory” provides the trust end date,
if applicable, for each VI Apartment.

(b) The Promoter intends to offer for sale permanent VI Points and place fee title apartments into
the VI Program. Purchasers and prospective purchasers of permanent points are cautioned
that they will have use rights extending beyond the termination date of owners who purchased
non-permanent use rights (40-years or less), and thus, may have a limited number of locations
available for their use unless the Promoter continues to add fee simple apartments to the VI
Program or the term of years of existing apartments are extended
. For example, some VI
Apartments now in the Program will cease to be in the VI Program between the present and
June 30, 2041. While in the past the Promoter has added new apartments, the Promoter does
not represent or warrant that it will continue to do so and is under no obligation to do so in
the future. The Promoter may also add VI Apartments from other locations, and thus, VI
Owners might have a substantially different range of choices of resorts in the future.
However, the VI Owners Association Board of Directors must consent to the addition of any
and all new apartments and resort locations to the VI Program.

Page 9 (4).

(4) Earlier Withdrawal of Units (and Owners) From the VI Trust and VI Program.

(a) Where VI Owners’ Rights Expire Naturally. According to the Promoter’s records, the use
rights of a substantial numbers of VI Owners will expire between the present and June 30,
2041. To keep the Program in balance in these circumstances, the VI Trust Agreement
permits the withdrawal of VI Apartments prior to the expiration of their term of years.

(b) Where VI Owners’ Rights Will Be Terminated Prematurely. The Vacation Internationale
Trust Agreement and Notice of Timeshare Plan and the VI Owner Agreements permit the use
rights of VI Owners to be terminated prematurely if VI Apartments are removed from the VI
Program because of damage, destruction, condemnation, loss of lodging rights (with respect
to the Mexico properties), or unsuitability for use in the VI Program
. In other words, THE
RISK OF LOSS OF VI APARTMENTS IS PLACED ON VI OWNERS, NOT THE
PROMOTER.
In such circumstances, proceeds may be generated, which may be used to purchase a
replacement apartment. There is no representation or guaranty that there will be such
proceeds or that the proceeds will be adequate to purchase a replacement apartment.
Alternatively, the proceeds, if any, may be disbursed to those VI Owners who are prematurely
removed from the VI Program. Again, there is no representation or guaranty that there will
be such proceeds or that the proceeds will be adequate to compensate fully those VI Owners
who are removed from the VI Program.

As per page 20, which lists all the units held in trust, most of the Hawaiian units in Waikiki are set to expire in 10 years or so. As per this document, the promoter has no obligation to extend the use or provide units in the same market as clearly stated under 3.b "The Promoter may also add VI Apartments from other locations, and thus, VI Owners might have a substantially different range of choices of resorts in the future."

So, you may end up with no units in Hawaii but only units in Branson, Mexico and Palm springs and that is perfectly legal as per CC&R. There is no guarantee that this will or will not happen but it may as per CC&R.

Frankly, I do not think this program is as solid as Worldmark. It also has a feature like the Wyndham timeshare that allows people who bought from developer to get earlier access to inventory, up to 50% discount on points within 60 days and discount on lots of options. I simply do not think this is good for the rest of owners as you see on page 6 of attached doc.

Just make sure to do your due diligence before buying.

Sam
 

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samara64

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Had a long conversation today with VI sales manager and he confirmed all these points but also affirmed that VI is committed to keep good inventory in Hawaii, which could be the case too, but no guarantee on paper.

The current units in Royal Kuhio and Fairway villas are owned privately by some entities and are leased from them by VI for 25-40 years. This type of ownership is common in Hawaii as lease hold. VI is in talks with these entities, as per the VI sales manager, to see if they can buy these units and put it in the club as permanent but nothing firm yet. These fee simple condos (not leased) go for over a 1,000,000 each for a 1BR/1BA 600 SF in Waikiki with no ocean view.

The units from the recently acquired RAVC came as permanent, as per his statement, but is not on paper yet as it is too early. So we have to wait and see what will come out of all of this after finalizing the RAVC acquisition.

I stated the lack of the ability to give back a membership, as you can do with Wyndham or Marriott, is a major issue for new buyers as if an owner can no longer travel or wants to get from under MF. I see VI memberships sell on eBay for reasonable price (like 20 per point for EY) so not sure why VI does not state a program like this. This way VI can resell the same points over and over instead of buying new condos.

Also I got some more docs for VI programs. One for exchanging with RCI and II but you have to buy from the developer to do such an exchange. The other is for points verification which shows how many points are owned by owners and how many are offered by the owned real-estate. There is about 200K overage which is about 2000 memberships as they average 100 points per membership. This is from July 2020 so before the RAVC deal.

As @easyrider stated, I stayed in Fairway villas back in 2013 through Worldmark as WM had access to their inventory. The condition of the condo was not pleasant and there were big holes in the carpet. My wife refused to go back to it.

Also in 2013 on the same trip, we had a reservation in Valley Isle also through Worldmark, and during check in my wife and I decided not to go in as unit was not in good condition. I called Worldmark owner care and they canceled it for me with no penalty and moved me to Kihei.

VI sales manager assured me that VI is renovating the condos regularly. I stopped by the Royal Kuhio in Waikiki few days ago and they had about 20 new sofa beds waiting in the back room to be delivered to the units. The front desk person stated that they are soft renovating the units but the new units from RAVC are in a better overall condition. Maybe VI is not spending much on the current units as the lease will expire soon (few within this year already) and new inventory from RAVC is coming in a better shape. I would do the same to save money.

When I was at the Royal Kuhio, I asked if I could go into one of the units to check it out but front desk person stated that because of COVID, he cannot do so which I understand.

So my take in all of this for prospective owners is to look at the program and see if it fits your needs. It has some pros and cons

Pros:

A. Low maintenance fees that does not go up by 5% every year. It goes by 10 cent / point every few years. 10 years ago it was 80 cent less then today.
B. Customer service, in my view, is better then most Timeshare companies I dealt with.
C. The company has a local Northwest feel and all Owner care reps are here in the Seattle area.

Cons:
A. Condo maintenance is optimized to save on MF. Since VI in most cases owns individual condos, they are limited to what can be done to the exterior of the building as it requires the approval of the HOA of such building.
B. TS Program is kind of lose in terms of holding inventory as condo location can change (eg from Hawaii to Branson). Also if a condo becomes unusable, they will simply invalidate few memberships which is unheard of. Not sure about the logic to allocate which ownership to choose.
C. There are some minor fees like booking fees and waitlist fees.
D. Unless you bought from developer, you cannot trade with RCI or II which is unusual as well.
E. The more you buy from developer, the more benefits you get like up to 50% discounted stays, some fees are waived or discounted and earlier access to inventory. This can hurt other owners that bought resale or bought fewer points as MF cost is shared per point flat across all memberships.

This is my take on the VI program after going through it as I was considering buying into it.
 

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SeattleAl

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ARTICLE VII - PROHIBITION AGAINST COMMERICAL USE
The VI Program is intended, and may be used, only for personal, family or household purposes. Use of the VI Program for commercial purposes is strictly prohibited. The Board of Directors may suspend or terminate the membership of any Member who knowingly and repeatedly violates this Article VII or any rules or regulations promulgated with respect thereto.

So if I made a reservation and put a post on Facebook that I will rent it out, VI will kick me out of the program?

Sounds like an exit strategy.
 

samara64

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So if I made a reservation and put a post on Facebook that I will rent it out, VI will kick me out of the program?

Sounds like an exit strategy.

Sure, but you have to prove that you "knowingly and repeatedly violates this Article". It is up to the BOD to determine that.

Until then, you have to keep paying the MF.
 

easyrider

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So if I made a reservation and put a post on Facebook that I will rent it out, VI will kick me out of the program?

Sounds like an exit strategy.

I don't know how VI would know unless you had a massive amount of reservations with overlap. I have rented out VI units with no problem but not very often and only to regular renters when I do rent.

Bill
 

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@sue1947 . You are right. Here is what I got from VI OC.

If you want to use VI with II, you must buy directly from VI in the past 6 years or so. People that bought before, had RCI access but VI does not offer it anymore.

If you buy resale, no access to RCI or II but you can use independent exchange companies by making a booking available to the exchange company.

VI offers an option to qualify your resale purchase by buying more points directly from them for about $7,000.

That also goes for owners for RAVC timeshare that was bought by VI. They too have to buy qualifying points to access these features!!!!.

I am a RAVC owner that is now a VI member. I am wanting to sign up for II, I called II, they said I have to talk to VI. I called and left a VM, and I emailed. They replied to my email "If you wanted to add Interval to your VI account, you could do so with a qualifying purchase or upgrade through our sales department. If you are interested in this and would like more information, please reply to this and we can have a member of our sales team contact you "
I had no idea that I would have to purchase more points directly from them ??? I believe when we did the merge paperwork we had the option to purchase an additional 25 points for just the maintenance fees..... Wondering if I had done that if I would have qualified ? I already have RCI, and I enjoy RCI. I will continue to use RCI if they wont allow me to sign up for II without buying more points. Frustrating discovery :(
 

samara64

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I am a RAVC owner that is now a VI member. I am wanting to sign up for II, I called II, they said I have to talk to VI. I called and left a VM, and I emailed. They replied to my email "If you wanted to add Interval to your VI account, you could do so with a qualifying purchase or upgrade through our sales department. If you are interested in this and would like more information, please reply to this and we can have a member of our sales team contact you "
I had no idea that I would have to purchase more points directly from them ??? I believe when we did the merge paperwork we had the option to purchase an additional 25 points for just the maintenance fees..... Wondering if I had done that if I would have qualified ? I already have RCI, and I enjoy RCI. I will continue to use RCI if they wont allow me to sign up for II without buying more points. Frustrating discovery :(


That is why I check all rules and guidelines BEFORE I purchase.

I understand your case is different as you got in via the RAVC merger.

Glad you like RCI.
 
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