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[ Thread is unlocked ] Megarenter Rap Lawsuit

Got my TUG membership resale for just $15!
Can you transfer post-points between thread-buckets with a resale TUG membership ?
Can you only like posts but not Love emogi them - due to resale restrictions on use ?
Does a TUG resale membership allow you to run a commercial rental business in Marketplace?

LOL
 
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TUG memberships don't average 25-30k in price either. When I signed my first developer contract while on vacation in June 2018 - I skimmed most of the document - and read the escape clause explicitly (the rescission clause) - then went back to our room and read almost the entire document set and then rescinded. When I went back for another developer purchase using two PIC contracts a month later - I read everything cover to cover - but as I've said elsewhere - I'm not what many would consider a normal person. ;)
I read everything from cover to cover also and I consider myself a normal person, a little above average maybe.
 
@ronparise

I remember Steamboat Bill talking about his bargains with his developer purchases. He almost had me talked into it, but I really just wanted the AP discount. He talked about $89 per point with two years' fees covered and free usage. He bought a lot of Disney. I would bet he could get over $1,000,000 if he sold what he owned right now. I miss Steamboat Bill.
What ever happened to him? I know he got banned on mouseowners though I do not know for what reason. The last discussion I had with him was about that 2000 point OKW contract that sold at $32.50 a point. Have not heard from him in 11 years. Was he on TUG?
 
You had an exit plan that you posted about (I am sure I could find the posts with a minimum of effort).

So, now you were maintaining a Wyndham rental business, it was just not as "a legitimate business owner would do?"

You can edit your post to save digging your hole deeper using your own words as a shovel.


AS I recall whenever I was asked about my exit plan all i could offer was to say... "I have an exit plan... Im gonna die. It will be Wyndhams problem then"
Ask any legitimate business owner if he or she thinks that that's a good plan, or a plan at all
If I ever posted otherwise it may have been my hope at the time, but looking back it would have had to be wishful thinking
I needed to find someone to take my stripped contracts, an impossible task.

But Wyndham solved it for me in 2016
 
I enjoy setting sales weasels straight when they talk about how relatives have to inherit a timeshare and its fees, but they can fix that problem with a purchase. I will have owned mine for 40 years by the time I'll be ready to exit. My exit plan is to give it back or walk away if they don't want it.
 
Context.

Anyone who is interested, should look back to the posts in this thread around #501 and #503 (page 21) for the context of the discussion and reach your own conclusion (which should be obvious).

Anyone who visited the Wyndham forum between about 2012 and 2016-2017 could not miss that ronparise was running a Wyndham rental business. It was tedious.




It must be clear by now, that you are the only one to hold that opinion. Reread post #503 and please quote anything in that post that would give any indication that the post was about anything other than Wyndham and his Wyndham rental business.

Here, to save you the trouble of looking it up, is the post to reread:



What is the meaning of "the contract" in post #503 that he did not read? The Platinum VIP contract he signed with Wyndham, or all the contracts in the "real estate rental business before he ever did anything with timeshares." Highly unlikely he did not read the contracts in his private rental business.


I actually said that the only part of the contract I signed with Wyndham that I read was the part that said i would become platinum VIP for $6000 Thats the only part I cared about. And as far as the rental properties I bought prior to my first Wyndham purchase, Not only didnt I read the small print, much of the time I didnt even go into the house. I remember, at one auction I attended the tenant was at an open window. I asked her... you got heat?, Your rent up to date? She said yes.. That was enough for me, I bid on the property.

And one settlement where the seller was so pissed at me for demanding that he put some money in escrow to cover the next water bill, (that wasnt in any contract we had) that he came after me physically. He actually stood up and put his knee on the table to come across, to do what? I dont know. I told him to sit his little 5'6" self back down. I dont need to buy this stuff and I started to walk out (Im 6'1" 220) and although Ive never been in a fight (the physical kind) I looked bad, and I guess mean .. At another property there had been a fire at the property the night before settlement, I asked that we delay settlement for a few hours to inspect the property. and the seller started to cry. Turned out they were losing money on the property already and to cut the price any further... well it made her cry. When I told her that I might not buy it all, depending on what the damage was. She started to sob. I had no idea what the contract said on the matter

Back to my feelings about contracts generally,,,, they are only as strong as the parties willingness to enforce them. I made the bet that Wyndham wouldnt enforce the commercial use clause in the directory and they didnt for the 5 years i was involved, until they did, But even then they came after me sideways, not directly They accused me of somehow stealing points. Once I made it clear that everything was for sale, they backed off and bought me out, I guess they didnt care what the contract said either.
 
For me to call it like it is.

Winston Churchill wrote, “Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
"George" bogey21 wrote. Because it is interesting history that helps understand the present...


I lived a little piece of Wyndhams ongoing battle against megarenting. Adam was involved longer than i was. Given whats happening in Wyndham World today I thought my experience might be interesting to some of you If Im wrong at least Im in good company.

I am sorry Ive been distracted by the 5 year old, petty disagreements with CoSkier
 
TUG memberships don't average 25-30k in price either. When I signed my first developer contract while on vacation in June 2018 - I skimmed most of the document - and read the escape clause explicitly (the rescission clause) - then went back to our room and read almost the entire document set and then rescinded. When I went back for another developer purchase using two PIC contracts a month later - I read everything cover to cover - but as I've said elsewhere - I'm not what many would consider a normal person. ;)

most of my Wyndham contracts cost less than a tug membership
 
What ever happened to him? I know he got banned on mouseowners though I do not know for what reason. The last discussion I had with him was about that 2000 point OKW contract that sold at $32.50 a point. Have not heard from him in 11 years. Was he on TUG?

I dont know Steamboat Bill unless he is Bill Spearman. I dont know him either, although I have read his work.
 
I enjoy setting sales weasels straight when they talk about how relatives have to inherit a timeshare and its fees, but they can fix that problem with a purchase. I will have owned mine for 40 years by the time I'll be ready to exit. My exit plan is to give it back or walk away if they don't want it.

Next time a weasel discusses / lies about inheriting TS - ask how they spell their full name and tell you want to make sure it is correctly spelled in your will- so they can inherit your deeded forever timeshare obligation.

FYI - the person who originally posted this on TUG - also said the presentation ended early as a result . So a win -win .
 
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I actually said that the only part of the contract I signed with Wyndham that I read was the part that said i would become platinum VIP for $6000 Thats the only part I cared about. And as far as the rental properties I bought prior to my first Wyndham purchase, Not only didnt I read the small print, much of the time I didnt even go into the house. I remember, at one auction I attended the tenant was at an open window. I asked her... you got heat?, Your rent up to date? She said yes.. That was enough for me, I bid on the property.

And one settlement where the seller was so pissed at me for demanding that he put some money in escrow to cover the next water bill, (that wasnt in any contract we had) that he came after me physically. He actually stood up and put his knee on the table to come across, to do what? I dont know. I told him to sit his little 5'6" self back down. I dont need to buy this stuff and I started to walk out (Im 6'1" 220) and although Ive never been in a fight (the physical kind) I looked bad, and I guess mean .. At another property there had been a fire at the property the night before settlement, I asked that we delay settlement for a few hours to inspect the property. and the seller started to cry. Turned out they were losing money on the property already and to cut the price any further... well it made her cry. When I told her that I might not buy it all, depending on what the damage was. She started to sob. I had no idea what the contract said on the matter

Back to my feelings about contracts generally,,,, they are only as strong as the parties willingness to enforce them. I made the bet that Wyndham wouldnt enforce the commercial use clause in the directory and they didnt for the 5 years i was involved, until they did, But even then they came after me sideways, not directly They accused me of somehow stealing points. Once I made it clear that everything was for sale, they backed off and bought me out, I guess they didnt care what the contract said either.
That's because they needed the free inventory to sell at $140+/1000. Even if they pd 10x the amount you paid it was a win for them. Nothing more then a business decision pay you or litigate and pay a lawyer. It was more then likely cheaper to buy you out.
 
Closing costs included in purchase price.
Yes

I had an agreement with a timeshare release company for a while. Anything they got with the Wyndham name on it, they offered me. I sent them a thumbs up and pretty soon there it was in my account
 
I dont know Steamboat Bill unless he is Bill Spearman. I dont know him either, although I have read his work.
Not Bill Spearman. Steamboat Bill was a100% Disney guy. I appreciated his posts on Disney.
 
That's because they needed the free inventory to sell at $140+/1000. Even if they pd 10x the amount you paid it was a win for them. Nothing more then a business decision pay you or litigate and pay a lawyer. It was more then likely cheaper to buy you out.

yep, folks that have read what I’ve posted about this know that’s what I’ve been saying. Wyndham froze our accounts at about this time in 2016 and played around with a claim that they needed to do an audit (never did,) They never said a thing about renting or commercial activity only that I has more points in my account than my ownership justified. then theymade me an offer: I should sign everything back to them ($0.00) and they would agree not to sue me.

so I said bring it on

when I was invited to make a counter offer, I did At the time I only had had 10 million points but I had another 10 million moving through the transfer department and another 5 million or so under contract

I counterd with a million dollars $40/1000 points we settled at a number in between those two extremes. Zero and a million.

Here’s what I think went into the “business decision” Wyndham made. Wyndham at the time had a goal of building and buying resorts for under 16% of what they could sell the points for. I knew that from listening to the quarterly earnings calls. (Top executives reported on earnings and took questions from the brokerage firms in a quarterly conference call). I also knew that (as you suggest) that they were haveing trouble creating and taking through ovation enough points to meet their sales goals.so buying back points became a thing

If they could sell the points for $150/1000 they could buy points at $25/1000 and meet their goals.

one of my arguments to Wyndham attorney was that even the stripped contracts i sold them helped with thei strategy. They were paying about $10/1000 points (I got about half of that) Even if they had to wait 3 years to sell these points(and pay mf to the resorts for this 3 years they were “all in” at about $25/1000

ultimately what they got from me in our settlement; they paid me a little less than $25 per 1000 and the contracts they got were not stripped of points


They also took my 500000 Worldmark credits in a second agreement. I was buying Worldmark contracts by assuming the debt and I owed about $200000 My strategy here was to pay off this stuff with what I was doing on the Wyndham side. They started off offering to take it all back at 40 cents a credit. There was no question that I would do it. I couldn’t manage the debt without the club Wyndham money I was taking in. so I agreeed and laughed. I told the lawyer that they had obviously done their homework because 40 cents was exactly what I owed He laughed right back and said he made the offer to give me a little bit of money over what I owed ( only a little)

and here’s why I speak so highly of the lawyer I was negotiating with and the Wyndham executives he had to convince to do things his way. He came back a week later upping their offer to 50 cents a credit. They didnt have to do that and I didn’t ask for it but he knew I was having trouble paying my bills with my Wyndham accounts frozen. That extra 10 cents a credit carried me during the time after my accounts were frozen and before I got the money from the club Wyndham agreement. I should also add that Wyndham honored all the rentals I had I place for which I had been paid I insisted that I had to take care of these folks. And just returning their money wouldn’t do it. They were more interested in the accommodations than the money. And Wyndham agreed Those reservations were put into a corporate account and my folks were able to enjoy the vacations that they had paid me for

so yea, you might say it was nothing more than business. But it was business with a heart. We came to a deal where Wyndham got what they wanted and I did ok too
 
500,000 WorldMark credits? holy cow

If you don't mind me asking, what was your total "nut" for MF's across all of your timeshare ownership?

I've never even heard of someone owning that much Worldmark
 
Amon
500,000 WorldMark credits? holy cow

If you don't mind me asking, what was your total "nut" for MF's across all of your timeshare ownership?

I've never even heard of someone owning that much Worldmark

you must not get out much

Of the guys that did worldmark rentals I was not very big in terms of the number of rentals only about 50/yr. my plan was to use Worldmark for myself. 4 months in SanFrancisco where my daughter lives and 4 months in San Diego with my stepson and I’d pay the mf by continuing to do 40 or so Mardi Gras reservations

until not too many years ago a Worldmark owner could “rent” in to his account as many credits as he could find and pay for. There were companies set up to find owners points to rent. Now you can only rent in twice the number of point you own. Last I heard one guy I knew owned over a million. And he was still buying. Wyndham is going after Worldmark mega renters too. Interestingly the Worldmark docs specifically allow renting so they have to try to control renting with rule changes. The can’t just disallow it

I waspaying about $250000a year in maintenance fees in total
 
Amon


you must not get out much

Of the guys that did worldmark rentals I was not very big in terms of the number of rentals only about 50/yr. my plan was to use Worldmark for myself. 4 months in SanFrancisco where my daughter lives and 4 months in San Diego with my stepson and I’d pay the mf by continuing to do 40 or so Mardi Gras reservations

until not too many years ago a Worldmark owner could “rent” in to his account as many credits as he could find and pay for. There were companies set up to find owners points to rent. Now you can only rent in twice the number of point you own. Last I heard one guy I knew owned over a million. And he was still buying. Wyndham is going after Worldmark mega renters too. Interestingly the Worldmark docs specifically allow renting so they have to try to control renting with rule changes. The can’t just disallow it

I waspaying about $250000a year in maintenance fees in total
Amon


you must not get out much

Of the guys that did worldmark rentals I was not very big in terms of the number of rentals only about 50/yr. my plan was to use Worldmark for myself. 4 months in SanFrancisco where my daughter lives and 4 months in San Diego with my stepson and I’d pay the mf by continuing to do 40 or so Mardi Gras reservations

until not too many years ago a Worldmark owner could “rent” in to his account as many credits as he could find and pay for. There were companies set up to find owners points to rent. Now you can only rent in twice the number of point you own. Last I heard one guy I knew owned over a million. And he was still buying. Wyndham is going after Worldmark mega renters too. Interestingly the Worldmark docs specifically allow renting so they have to try to control renting with rule changes. The can’t just disallow it

I waspaying about $250000a year in maintenance fees in total
At the end of the day both parties walked away happy At the time your buyout there may have been a few regrets but with recent changes to resale points and after the COVID shut down last year they did you a big favor. Wyndham did learn from the AUDIT and no one in the future will see the $ you walked away with.
 
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At the end of the day both parties walked away happy At the time your buyout there may have been a few regrets but with recent changes to resale points and after the COVID shut down last year they did you a big favor. Wyndham did learn from the AUDIT and no one in the future will see the $ you walked away with.

He got the golden parachute of timeshare bailouts... I guess if Wyndham wanted to make an example they could have just shut him down and make it incumbent on him to dispose of his stripped, worthless contracts himself.

250k in MF, wow...
 
He got the golden parachute of timeshare bailouts... I guess if Wyndham wanted to make an example they could have just shut him down and make it incumbent on him to dispose of his stripped, worthless contracts himself.

250k in MF, wow...
Wyndham settled knowing they had some culpability in creating the problem. Or they just needed a lot of cheap inventory at the time.
 
Wyndham settled knowing they had some culpability in creating the problem. Or they just needed a lot of cheap inventory at the time.
How do we know Wyndham settled? I personally don't think Wyndham would settled as to not set a precedent, and they would have required a NDA. NDAs are standard procedures for corporations. The parties couldn't talking about their 'settlement' without violating the terms of the NDA, which usually makes the settlement moot and monies be returned. I'm just say'in.
 
How do we know Wyndham settled? I personally don't think Wyndham would settled as to not set a precedent, and they would have required a NDA. NDAs are standard procedures for corporations. The parties couldn't talking about their 'settlement' without violating the terms of the NDA, which usually makes the settlement moot and monies be returned. I'm just say'in.
Do you think they had some culpability in creating the mega-renter problem?
 
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