Telesales

[JerseyDeb]

Anyone know what price telesales is currently offering? Thinking about doing a PIC. Also, will they still work with you if you have previously rescinded?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Braindead]

Telesales CWA price has been $130 to $150 per thousand points, the more you buy the cheaper per thousand.
They will sell to you as long as you are not on the “do not sell-tour list”. A past rescission doesn’t matter as long as you’re not on the list.

 

[cbyrne1174]

Anyone know what price telesales is currently offering? Thinking about doing a PIC. Also, will they still work with you if you have previously rescinded?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

If you do a PIC, the only VIP level worth its price tag anymore is the Bronze level because you can make back your purchase price within 10 years on reduced MF costs alone if you get a really low MF PIC. THE rest are trash without unlimited HK credits.

 

[dgalati]

If you do a PIC, the only VIP level worth its price tag anymore is the Bronze level because you can make back your purchase price within 10 years on reduced MF costs alone if you get a really low MF PIC. THE rest are trash without unlimited HK credits.

Is the payback time still 10 years with the restrictions placed on guest certificates on reservations?

 

[cbyrne1174]

Is the payback time still 10 years with the restrictions placed on guest certificates on reservations?

If you compare the MF cost of 254,000 CWA points with the MF cost of a 3 bedroom low MF PIC (ex. Massanutten), you will save the money you spent on a 105,000 EOY retail telesales purchase by MF savings over 10 years.

 

[dgalati]

Telesales CWA price has been $130 to $150 per thousand points, the more you buy the cheaper per thousand.

Without having to buy more for less ("cheaper") I would suggest resale at pennies/1000. .

 

[cbyrne1174]

I'm not saying I would ever make the purchase. I don't want a PIC deed in my name. I only have deeds at nice newer upkept RCI Gold Crown resorts. I can't justify putting the liability of a resort like Massanutten in my name for a small benefit. If I cared that much about MF savings, I would just bust out the money for a Canterbury deed, which I know will retain its value if I ever need to liquidate.

 

[dgalati]

If you compare the MF cost of 254,000 CWA points with the MF cost of a 3 bedroom low MF PIC (ex. Massanutten), you will save the money you spent on a 105,000 EOY retail telesales purchase by MF savings over 10 years.

What would the payback be in dog years if it was a Grand Desert deed with a lower monthly maintenance fee?

 

[cbyrne1174]

What would the payback be in dog years if it was a Grand Desert deed with a lower monthly maintenance fee?

I can't compare off the top of my head because I didn't record the 2021 MF of a 3 bedroom at Massanutten, it was on the Bulk Inventory list through Timeshare Nation when I did the calculation a few months ago

 

[dgalati]

I'm not saying I would ever make the purchase. I don't want a PIC deed in my name. I only have deeds at nice newer upkept RCI Gold Crown resorts. I can't justify putting the liability of a resort like Massanutten in my name for a small benefit. If I cared that much about MF savings, I would just bust out the money for a Canterbury deed, which I know will retain its value if I ever need to liquidate.

SF is also known for some natural disasters that could result in assessments.

 

[cbyrne1174]

SF is also known for some natural disasters that could result in assessments.

Bulk List Inventory - Google Drive

docs.google.com

There is a posting on here for an Angel Fire Cabin Share 3 Bedroom that's $635/year

Here is the RCI page for it, so it should work as a PIC:

Resort Details

$635 + $89 PIC conversion fee = $724

$724/254 = $2.85 per thousand before the program fee

Grand Desert Towers 1 and 2 = $4.97 per thousand before program fee.

(4.97 -2.85) x 254 = $538.48 savings per year on 254,000 points

 

[cbyrne1174]

SF is also known for some natural disasters that could result in assessments.

I'm just super weird about having a liability in my name. It gives me anxiety. When I plugged in my current household income and how much I currently have in my emergency fund into Credit Karma the other day, it says I can "afford" a $400,000 house with a 3% interest rate, but I still think it's a stupid decision to enter the market anytime soon because the market is probably just going to crash again. I'd rather throw away $1,800 a month in rent on a house worth $300,000 every month because that's the enemy I know. I don't know how rough the market is going to get once the moratorium is up. My fingers are crossed that it crashes so I can be a homeowner sometime before I'm 40 lol.

 

[troy12n]

I'm just super weird about having a liability in my name. It gives me anxiety. When I plugged in my current household income and how much I currently have in my emergency fund into Credit Karma the other day, it says I can "afford" a $400,000 house with a 3% interest rate, but I still think it's a stupid decision to enter the market anytime soon because the market is probably just going to crash again. I'd rather throw away $1,800 a month in rent on a house worth $300,000 every month because that's the enemy I know. I don't know how rough the market is going to get once the moratorium is up. My fingers are crossed that it crashes so I can be a homeowner sometime before I'm 40 lol.

I bought my current home in 2006, a few years before the market hit the top and crashed. It was popular at the time to have creative financing to buy more home than you could really afford. I did the smart thing and bought within my means, put 20% down and a 30 year fixed... the bottom fell out in 2008 and while several people I knew were stuck in an ARM or interest only loan with no equity... Even though my home lost 40% of it's appraised value, I wasn't underwater and rode it out... and in 2012 refi'ed into a 15 year fixed at 2.65% with no closing costs with the HARP program, which at the time was record low

I think another crash is coming, I will have the house payed off in 2024 (i've been overpaying my principal), so I really don't care if the bottom falls out again. Worst case scenario, I ride it out again, and buy a "better house" at 30-50% of what they are selling for right now... I saw this play out in 2008-2010, and the only difference is that banks aren't doing the creative (predatory) loan types... there's still plenty of overleveraged people, and idiots playing wanna-be slumlord. They are always the first to bust.

I would never rent if I could afford to. You might end up with more disposable income in the short term, given the right circumstance, but have nothing to show for. Plus i'm owning now cheaper than I could possibly rent. But to each their own.

 

[dgalati]

I bought my current home in 2006, a few years before the market hit the top and crashed. It was popular at the time to have creative financing to buy more home than you could really afford. I did the smart thing and bought within my means, put 20% down and a 30 year fixed... the bottom fell out in 2008 and while several people I knew were stuck in an ARM or interest only loan with no equity... Even though my home lost 40% of it's appraised value, I wasn't underwater and rode it out... and in 2012 refi'ed into a 15 year fixed at 2.65% with no closing costs with the HARP program, which at the time was record low

I think another crash is coming, I will have the house payed off in 2024 (i've been overpaying my principal), so I really don't care if the bottom falls out again. Worst case scenario, I ride it out again, and buy a "better house" at 30-50% of what they are selling for right now... I saw this play out in 2008-2010, and the only difference is that banks aren't doing the creative (predatory) loan types... there's still plenty of overleveraged people, and idiots playing wanna-be slumlord. They are always the first to bust.

I would never rent if I could afford to. You might end up with more disposable income in the short term, given the right circumstance, but have nothing to show for. Plus i'm owning now cheaper than I could possibly rent. But to each their own.

Their is a cost of ownership even if home is paid off that is very comparable to paying rent. Renting is a fixed cost unlike the pride of owning that comes with unexpected repairs and maintenance. Sure there is no appreciation on a rental but the the lost opportunity of investing the funds that are tied up in a homes value makes up for the lost appreciation. Add in costs for interest, Taxes, insurance, outdoor maintenance, replacement of roof, baths, kitchen ect and the cost of ownership vs renting is very close in terms of dollars spent.

 

[troy12n]

Their is a cost of ownership even if home is paid off that is very comparable to paying rent. Renting is a fixed cost unlike the pride of owning that comes with unexpected repairs and maintenance. Sure there is no appreciation on a rental but the the lost opportunity of investing the funds that are tied up in a homes value makes up for the lost appreciation. Add in costs for interest, Taxes, insurance, outdoor maintenance, replacement of roof, baths, kitchen ect and the cost of ownership vs renting is very close in terms of dollars spent.

Dunno where you got that info from. My total property taxes were $2168.02 and my homeowners insurance (which isn't required after the loan is payed off) was $2182.50. I do my own yard work. Yes, I have occasional expenses a renter won't have (appliances every 15 years or so, paint, other maintenance), but find me a place you can rent that isn't section 8 in the hood for $363 per month... and have no equity or anything to show for it.

Regarding long term maintenance expenses, I actually "have to" replace my roof this year (not because it's damaged or failing, but because my insurance company is FORCING me to. This will cost me $15,000 approximately. I've owned my home for 15 years... using this as an example of long term expenses, that cost me $83/month, assuming it "needs" to be replaced every 15 years (which, it shouldn't, except for thieving insurance companies. Paint every 15 years, a few thousand dollars tops (I painted it after I bought the house)... I had to replace my air conditioner in 2015, boom, $4500, do the math on that per month of home ownership ($25/month). Add all those things up. My mortgage is $832.98 every month, and I pay $1000.

After 20+ years of home ownership, I can assure you that your assumptions about owning vs renting is very inaccurate in terms of cost. Not even close. And right now, even after the bust, I can sell it for $150,000 more than I bought it for... The only tangible positive thing that renting has going for it is the ability to walk away after your lease is up. Which may or may not be a positive. I know people who rent and know that the rental market is strong here and places are hiking rent significantly every year (i've heard 15-20% from friends the last couple years) so paying more, or moving more often is in the cards. I have fixed expenses long term, with a complete payoff on the radar in early 2026...

 

[cbyrne1174]

I bought my current home in 2006, a few years before the market hit the top and crashed. It was popular at the time to have creative financing to buy more home than you could really afford. I did the smart thing and bought within my means, put 20% down and a 30 year fixed... the bottom fell out in 2008 and while several people I knew were stuck in an ARM or interest only loan with no equity... Even though my home lost 40% of it's appraised value, I wasn't underwater and rode it out... and in 2012 refi'ed into a 15 year fixed at 2.65% with no closing costs with the HARP program, which at the time was record low

I think another crash is coming, I will have the house payed off in 2024 (i've been overpaying my principal), so I really don't care if the bottom falls out again. Worst case scenario, I ride it out again, and buy a "better house" at 30-50% of what they are selling for right now... I saw this play out in 2008-2010, and the only difference is that banks aren't doing the creative (predatory) loan types... there's still plenty of overleveraged people, and idiots playing wanna-be slumlord. They are always the first to bust.

I would never rent if I could afford to. You might end up with more disposable income in the short term, given the right circumstance, but have nothing to show for. Plus i'm owning now cheaper than I could possibly rent. But to each their own.

Yea but in 2006 I was a Junior in high school. Since high school, I've been through 2 MAJOR recessions. Most people my age did exactly what they're supposed to and still got the short end of the stick. I knew people a few years older than me with engineering degrees that were waiting tables until 2 years after graduation. I'm kind of scarred lol. My husband is a network engineer and I'm a chemistry teacher yet I get all my clothes/kids clothes at Goodwill. I also only buy groceries at ALDI because it's cheaper than Walmart, never again buying a car again less than 2 year old, never spending more than 15k on a car, never again going to finance a car. I plan on keeping 10k of emergency funds once I do buy a house and just making the minimum mortgage payments and throwing everything I possibly can into retirement accounts because they don't have a capital gains tax and you get to keep everything in it if you have to file bankruptcy. Retirement accounts sound 10x safer than a house right now. I know the stock market could crash, but over 30 years I know it will even out.

With a house, you can't get up and take another job in another city or state if it means getting ahead. I lived in AL last year just so my husband could get the work experience he needed to get a job in Tampa. Mobile, AL doesn't have competition for IT work because it's Alabama lol. Tampa is extremely competitive. If I owned a house, I would be stuck at that location and it would affect my earning potential. I see the logical of owning a home if I were born 15 or so years earlier, but with how ridiculous things are getting with wealth inequality, I'd rather be mobile and living in a crappier house than what I could get with the same amount owning it myself. If the market adjusts to an affordable level, then I will buy a house, but until then, I'd rather just throw 30% of my gross income into protected retirement accounts.

That's also why I refuse to spend money on a vacation club as well. People tend to be very optimistic of their circumstance or what the future holds. I see women my age constantly talking about what they are going to do with their new baby and buying things before they've even had an anatomy scan. I see my students do it all the time too. They tell me they want to finance their Psychology degree and go to a private school. I always have to gently break it to them just how horribly bad of an idea that is because on average it will take them well into their 30 and sometimes even in their 40s to pay off their education.

 

[dgalati]

Dunno where you got that info from. My total property taxes were $2168.02 and my homeowners insurance (which isn't required after the loan is payed off) was $2182.50. I do my own yard work. Yes, I have occasional expenses a renter won't have (appliances every 15 years or so, paint, other maintenance), but find me a place you can rent that isn't section 8 in the hood for $363 per month... and have no equity or anything to show for it.

Regarding long term maintenance expenses, I actually "have to" replace my roof this year (not because it's damaged or failing, but because my insurance company is FORCING me to. This will cost me $15,000 approximately. I've owned my home for 15 years... using this as an example of long term expenses, that cost me $83/month, assuming it "needs" to be replaced every 15 years (which, it shouldn't, except for thieving insurance companies. Paint every 15 years, a few thousand dollars tops (I painted it after I bought the house)... I had to replace my air conditioner in 2015, boom, $4500, do the math on that per month of home ownership ($25/month). Add all those things up. My mortgage is $832.98 every month, and I pay $1000.

After 20+ years of home ownership, I can assure you that your assumptions about owning vs renting is very inaccurate in terms of cost. Not even close. And right now, even after the bust, I can sell it for $150,000 more than I bought it for... The only tangible positive thing that renting has going for it is the ability to walk away after your lease is up. Which may or may not be a positive. I know people who rent and know that the rental market is strong here and places are hiking rent significantly every year (i've heard 15-20% from friends the last couple years) so paying more, or moving more often is in the cards. I have fixed expenses long term, with a complete payoff on the radar in early 2026...

If you invested the cost of the home 15 years ago it would of more then doubled. I get what you are saying I own and have not carried a mortgage since the early 1990's. But to believe its cheaper to always own you are fooling yourself. Its costing you 10k a year to have the 150k wrapped up in a home if you calculate 6% return on money if it was invested. When interest rates move up the price of home will move back down. It all relative and based on what the average homeowner could afford monthly. I'm in the process of selling to downsize. Would like to find a ranch that is about 1/2 the sq feet I have now but the housing market is a bubble. I will rent until housing prices drift lower instead of saying I own again

 

[troy12n]

With a house, you can't get up and take another job in another city or state if it means getting ahead. I lived in AL last year just so my husband could get the work experience he needed to get a job in Tampa. Mobile, AL doesn't have competition for IT work because it's Alabama lol. Tampa is extremely competitive. If I owned a house, I would be stuck at that location and it would affect my earning potential. I see the logical of owning a home if I were born 15 or so years earlier, but with how ridiculous things are getting with wealth inequality, I'd rather be mobile and living in a crappier house than what I could get with the same amount owning it myself. If the market adjusts to an affordable level, then I will buy a house, but until then, I'd rather just throw 30% of my gross income into protected retirement accounts.

I understand all circumstances are different, but with VERY few exceptions... yes, you can just "pick up and move"... if you are a homeowner. It's actually easier than breaking a lease at an apartment, or paying out the duration of the lease. So that's a disingenuous statement.

The only reason you would not be able to pick up and move from your home / sell would be:
1. You are in the middle of a recession/depression/housing bubble
2. You live in a very crappy location (BFE West Virginia coal country or some like place)
3. Some niche natural disaster making your property uninhabitable (landslide, volcano, sinkhole?)

Historically, housing has always appreciated. ALWAYS. There are very limited circumstances where housing has depreciated. If you bought late in the last housing bubble, and wanted to sell in 2009-2011 you might have had trouble. But historically that was a once in a lifetime event. And if you had the ability to ride it out, you were completely unscathed.uy

Pretty much everyone I know who lost their hat during the housing bubble either had HORRIBLE loans (ARM's, interest-only loans), were drastically overextended, or their properties were investment properties they could no longer afford.

Even in somewhere like Mobile, AL I would imagine the housing market is somewhat decent.

Anyway, your arguments are specific to your individual experiences. My comments to the other poster about "renting making better financial sense" are accurate.

If you can't afford it, or just aren't comfortable, fine... but it's factually inaccurate to say it's more cost effective to rent.

Also, if you are in a situation like that, you probably shouldn't be buying a timeshare, but that's just my opinion

 

[troy12n]

I'm in the process of selling to downsize. Would like to find a ranch that is about 1/2 the sq feet I have now but the housing market is a bubble. I will rent until housing prices drift lower instead of saying I own again

I'm in a situation where i'm ready to downsize too. Kids almost out of the house, I would love to sell right now, and cash out, rent for a couple years and buy when the housing market tanks... which I see happening in a few years. Would be nice to time that perfectly.

 

[Eric B]

I understand all circumstances are different, but with VERY few exceptions... yes, you can just "pick up and move"... if you are a homeowner. It's actually easier than breaking a lease at an apartment, or paying out the duration of the lease. So that's a disingenuous statement.

The only reason you would not be able to pick up and move from your home / sell would be:
1. You are in the middle of a recession/depression/housing bubble
2. You live in a very crappy location (BFE West Virginia coal country or some like place)
3. Some niche natural disaster making your property uninhabitable (landslide, volcano, sinkhole?)

Historically, housing has always appreciated. ALWAYS. There are very limited circumstances where housing has depreciated. If you bought late in the last housing bubble, and wanted to sell in 2009-2011 you might have had trouble. But historically that was a once in a lifetime event. And if you had the ability to ride it out, you were completely unscathed.uy

Pretty much everyone I know who lost their hat during the housing bubble either had HORRIBLE loans (ARM's, interest-only loans), were drastically overextended, or their properties were investment properties they could no longer afford.

Even in somewhere like Mobile, AL I would imagine the housing market is somewhat decent.

Anyway, your arguments are specific to your individual experiences. My comments to the other poster about "renting making better financial sense" are accurate.

If you can't afford it, or just aren't comfortable, fine... but it's factually inaccurate to say it's more cost effective to rent.

Also, if you are in a situation like that, you probably shouldn't be buying a timeshare, but that's just my opinion

Our approach to the need to move every three years or so when in the military was to pick out and purchase a house in an area that would make it fairly easy to rent out as a landlord when the time came. We wound up with 7 rental houses at the peak; occasionally we had one or two renting at a deficit for a year or two, but overall it wound up contributing to our income and reducing our tax burden. Bottom line for me is that owning any particular house means taking on the risk of expenses being different than you expect, but also being able to gain whatever the profit winds up being from letting someone else rent it. In the end, the variations in the expenses wound up evening out and we've done fairly well as landlords.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I understand all circumstances are different, but with VERY few exceptions... yes, you can just "pick up and move"... if you are a homeowner. It's actually easier than breaking a lease at an apartment, or paying out the duration of the lease. So that's a disingenuous statement.

The only reason you would not be able to pick up and move from your home / sell would be:
1. You are in the middle of a recession/depression/housing bubble
2. You live in a very crappy location (BFE West Virginia coal country or some like place)
3. Some niche natural disaster making your property uninhabitable (landslide, volcano, sinkhole?)

Historically, housing has always appreciated. ALWAYS. There are very limited circumstances where housing has depreciated. If you bought late in the last housing bubble, and wanted to sell in 2009-2011 you might have had trouble. But historically that was a once in a lifetime event. And if you had the ability to ride it out, you were completely unscathed.uy

Pretty much everyone I know who lost their hat during the housing bubble either had HORRIBLE loans (ARM's, interest-only loans), were drastically overextended, or their properties were investment properties they could no longer afford.

Even in somewhere like Mobile, AL I would imagine the housing market is somewhat decent.

Anyway, your arguments are specific to your individual experiences. My comments to the other poster about "renting making better financial sense" are accurate.

If you can't afford it, or just aren't comfortable, fine... but it's factually inaccurate to say it's more cost effective to rent.

Also, if you are in a situation like that, you probably shouldn't be buying a timeshare, but that's just my opinion

The average annual income of someone who actually buys into Wyndham retail is only about $120,000 a year. I don't know what income level you are referring to? 120,000 a year is not enough to buy a house right before the bubble bursts. Like I said, on that income, you are better off just renting for up to $2k a month and just maxing out your retirement accounts early on so you don't lose $100-150k of your net worth in a matter of months . If you put $6,000 each into your two IRA accounts (both spouses) at 30 years old, and it grows 10% a year for 40 years using the S&P 500 index, $12k is worth $543,000 when you pull it back out at 70 years old. You also each can contribute an additional $19,500 in your 401k accounts as well. I was suggesting putting putting at the very least $30,000-$40,000 /year into your retire when your are still relatively young because you can't lose it in a bankruptcy.

When the bubble pops again, it's the midrange housing that loses its value. The $1,000,000+ houses usually don't depreciate much in a recession. I honestly don't think you should buy into Wyndham retail even if you have a net worth of over a million, with the exception of PICing to Bronze since all the levels above it don't even give you enough housekeeping to utilize the discounts. They got rid of the only benefit that actually entices you to make a retail purchase. Plus, like I said, people tend to be way too optimistic about their futures because they haven't had bad luck yet.

It is more cost effective for a 30-35 year old to rent at this point in time because we've been through two "once in a lifetime" recessions in the first 20 years of our adulthood. Until the majority of people in the United States actually start voting for people who will actually correct wealth inequality and healthcare, things are just going to get worse. When my husband lost his job multiple times over the course of 3-4 years (which requires a 4 year degree) due to the state of the economy, I couldn't even afford health insurance for my daughter on a teacher's salary. It would have cost 20% of my take home pay. A high school science teacher salary should be able to support 1 school aged child in a 2 bedroom apartment with a 5 year old car that isn't even financed, but it doesn't.

Some people are pro renting because of how screwed up things actually are these days. I grew up middle class and a lot of people have this ridiculous idea that poverty is something that people do to themselves. By just being born middle class you have access to better schools and better teachers. I teach at a low income school and see first hand how unequal teacher quality really is. Most middle class people are completely oblivious to the fact that their situation is more luck than anything else and as soon as something unfortunate happens, they can lose everything. This very reason is why I don't understand why anyone actually supports for profit private healthcare compared to the systems in the UK and Nordic countries. People are literally voting against their own best interest.

 

[dgalati]

Our approach to the need to move every three years or so when in the military was to pick out and purchase a house in an area that would make it fairly easy to rent out as a landlord when the time came. We wound up with 7 rental houses at the peak; occasionally we had one or two renting at a deficit for a year or two, but overall it wound up contributing to our income and reducing our tax burden. Bottom line for me is that owning any particular house means taking on the risk of expenses being different than you expect, but also being able to gain whatever the profit winds up being from letting someone else rent it. In the end, the variations in the expenses wound up evening out and we've done fairly well as landlords.

I played the rental home game starting in 1983 and sold my last rental in 2007. All homes were put on a accelerated depreciation schedule which helped me being a single guy without any dependents or tax deductions. I researched the local market for 2 years prior to purchasing, obtained a real-estate license and was active in the local real-estate investors club. Back then the internet was not available so I did a lot of drive byes and searched the 3 daily newspapers for deals or FSBO. The first home was cash positive with only 10% down, a 30 year note at a 11.5% interest rate. In 1987 I refinanced with a 15 year note at 8.5% and the payment was $5 less a month but the principle reduction was a game changer. I was living at home with three rentals at the age of 22. I remember on my honeymoon in Lake Tahoe at Heavenly Valley we attended a timeshare presentation that was being sold as a investment. I laughed at the sales team and 3 closers that tried to close the deal. They tried to sell me a week for12k as a investment but I told them I'm buying 3 bedroom homes with 10% down for 50-55k and could write off the accelerated depreciation and control them all 52 weeks of the year. Champagne bottle corks were flying across the room every time someone bought and all the sales team would stand up and clap and cheer. My sales girl told me this was becuase every time someone bought the value of their ownership went up. LOL!

 

[dgalati]

The average annual income of someone who actually buys into Wyndham retail is only about $120,000 a year. I don't know what income level you are referring to? 120,000 a year is not enough to buy a house right before the bubble bursts. Like I said, on that income, you are better off just renting for up to $2k a month and just maxing out your retirement accounts early on so you don't lose $100-150k of your net worth in a matter of months . If you put $6,000 each into your two IRA accounts (both spouses) at 30 years old, and it grows 10% a year for 40 years using the S&P 500 index, $12k is worth $543,000 when you pull it back out at 70 years old. You also each can contribute an additional $19,500 in your 401k accounts as well. I was suggesting putting putting at the very least $30,000-$40,000 /year into your retire when your are still relatively young because you can't lose it in a bankruptcy.

When the bubble pops again, it's the midrange housing that loses its value. The $1,000,000+ houses usually don't depreciate much in a recession. I honestly don't think you should buy into Wyndham retail even if you have a net worth of over a million, with the exception of PICing to Bronze since all the levels above it don't even give you enough housekeeping to utilize the discounts. They got rid of the only benefit that actually entices you to make a retail purchase. Plus, like I said, people tend to be way too optimistic about their futures because they haven't had bad luck yet.

It is more cost effective for a 30-35 year old to rent at this point in time because we've been through two "once in a lifetime" recessions in the first 20 years of our adulthood. Until the majority of people in the United States actually start voting for people who will actually correct wealth inequality and healthcare, things are just going to get worse. When my husband lost his job multiple times over the course of 3-4 years (which requires a 4 year degree) due to the state of the economy, I couldn't even afford health insurance for my daughter on a teacher's salary. It would have cost 20% of my take home pay. A high school science teacher salary should be able to support 1 school aged child in a 2 bedroom apartment with a 5 year old car that isn't even financed, but it doesn't.

Some people are pro renting because of how screwed up things actually are these days. I grew up middle class and a lot of people have this ridiculous idea that poverty is something that people do to themselves. By just being born middle class you have access to better schools and better teachers. I teach at a low income school and see first hand how unequal teacher quality really is. Most middle class people are completely oblivious to the fact that their situation is more luck than anything else and as soon as something unfortunate happens, they can lose everything. This very reason is why I don't understand why anyone actually supports for profit private healthcare compared to the systems in the UK and Nordic countries. People are literally voting against their own best interest.

I was born on the other side of the tracks and it helped me work harder to have what the rich kids had that we didn't. My friends and I can say we all earned it the hard way. We also thank our parents for instilling into us their the work ethic. Many of the wealthier kids we grew up with didn't make much of themselves because they never had to earn it or never felt what is was like to do without. I blame their parents for not making them work for that first car, pay their own insurance or have to work a job at all while in high school. We all wrestled because daddy ball didn't play a part in who the coach played or started. We wrestled off every week and earned our spot on the team without mom or dads involvement in PTO or friendship with the coach influencing who the coach started.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I was born on the other side of the tracks and it helped me work harder to have what the rich kids had that we didn't. My friends and I can say we all earned it the hard way. We also thank our parents for instilling into us their the work ethic. Many of the wealthier kids we grew up with didn't make much of themselves because they never had to earn it or never felt what is was like to do without. I blame their parents for not making them work for that first car, pay their own insurance or have to work a job at all while in high school. We all wrestled because daddy ball didn't play a part in who the coach played or started. We wrestled off every week and earned our spot on the team without mom or dads involvement in PTO or friendship with the coach influencing who the coach started.

Your childhood experience actually is probably why you always are so adamant about renting. You've experienced first hand of having to go without through no fault of your own.

I can live off a teacher's salary as long as I get healthcare for my daughter from my husband's job and I'm not paying interest on anything. Florida doesn't offer healthcare to teachers for their children. It's $600/month if I were to add my daughter to my plan. Not many people actually realize how HORRIBLE teachers are paid. That perspective is what makes me so against frivolous spending on a luxury item. My vacation budget is just the condo. I don't fly anywhere, rent a car, eat out or spend any additional money when I go anywhere. If I'm at Reunion or Bonnet Creek, I leave the property once just to get my groceries at ALDI (the cheapest chain in FL). I honestly can't tell you what the quality of the food is like at Bonnet Creek is even though I've stayed there about 10 times at this point because it's never been in my budget.

Also a lot of people equate how much money you make to how hard you work. My husband works half as much as I do and makes twice as much. He has to man a data center overnight, fix any networking issues that happen, do server maintenance, upgrade them with clients ask for it etc. Half the time he just plays video games because it's the middle of the night. I have to teach 8 classes this year even though I'm only actually paid to teach 6 because the other chemistry teacher left and nobody is applying for the position. I realize that I'm not required to teach the extra 2 classes to fulfill my job duties, but my school is 85% free/reduced lunch and has a 95% minority enrollment. What kind of person would I be to just sit there and watch the system fail them? I've gotten so polished at what I do that I can teach the same material to my regular kids that the honors teacher does at the A school down the road (we share materials). My exam scores are obviously always lower, but FL has a thing called a "value added model" where it gives the teacher a rating based on how the kid did compared to other kids with the same previous test scores. Most of my kids are expected to get between a 40%-%60 as their raw score and my average is always in the 70s, which gives me a really good VAM score, but I only make an extra 30 cents an hour for having one.

I think part of my viewpoint is that I've never been monetarily compensated for working hard, but still have the same abilities as people who make at least double what I make. I always excelled in school in math/science. Reading was my hell. I never had to study in college. I would learn the info the day before the exam and just skip class unless attendance was for a grade. The only class I ever really attended that wasn't mandatory was organic chemistry. It's the only C I made in college. Yeah I could change my profession to something that pays better, but it's just so much more satisfying knowing how much my middle finger is constantly sticking up at the policy makers that do everything in their power to keep the schools segregated by "property values", which we all know really means race.

 

[Jan M.]

Buying a home with very little down means that very little of your mortgage payment goes to equity. Being a homeowner means you're paying for any repairs, replacements or improvements. With the trend of 30-40 year mortgages at 10 years in you could easily find yourself about even.

DH I both remember back in October 1980 when we were applying for a mortgage at a savings and loan that offered by far the best interest rate in the area. The loan officer actually put the date and time on our application to lock us in to the current rate because it wasn't unusual to see the rate go up from week to week. To get that rate you had to have 20% down and the longest term was 20 years but they encouraged 15 years if you could handle it.

The 80's saw double digit mortgage rates. Some of you will remember the ARMs of that time, Adjustable Rate Mortgages. A number of people saw their interest rate and mortgage payments skyrocket.