Hilton Grand Vacations strikes deal to acquire Diamond Resorts

[Fried_shrimp]

Yes, and the EU collection includes some units in Florida.

Deleted.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

The EU collection had 207 weeks at Cypress Pointe. Diamond withdrew all but 5 week in 2016.

Wasn't Cypress Pointe managed by Festiva until 2016/2017?

 

[Fried_shrimp]

Is Diamond higher than platinum in DRI?

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There is no Diamond status in DRI. Standard, Silver, Gold, Platinum and the brand new Centum status is what is available.

 

[pedro47]

For those who are interesting, here is the URL that lists all of the Diamond resorts. Unfortunately, it also lists all of the affiliates so you have to look at the symbols to determine which is which.

As someone stated earlier, Diamond IT, in all of their glory, decided (or screwed up) and deleted the link on the website to Locations so I had to access it abackdoor way to get it.

https://member.diamondresorts.com/Resorts/

You need to be a DRI member to look at this link.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I'm sorry but that is incorrect. Status is only gained when being a member of The Club and dirty points are not in The Club and have none of the benefits of The Club. Dirty points can (used to be at least) cleaned but unless that was done at some point in time, dirty points grant no privileges in the The Club.

I wonder if HGVC will address the issue of "dirty" points. As we know in HGVC points that were bought resale, (Dirty points is a negative term that Diamond created to debase resale) get every benefit of buying from the develper except Elite Status. We should all want resale purchases to be as close to the value of buying from the developer as possible to keep the value of what we own high.

 

[dougp26364]

I wonder if HGVC will address the issue of "dirty" points. As we know in HGVC points that were bought resale, (Dirty points is a negative term that Diamond created to debase resale) get every benefit of buying from the develper except Elite Status. We should all want resale purchases to be as close to the value of buying from the developer as possible to keep the value of what we own high.

I’ve thought about this and have my opinion as to how I would like to see Hilton handle this issue.

Essentially, I’d love to see them keep the policy as is, plus change DRI’s policy to the same, where resale buyers of trust points can use them the same as retail points. I don’t anticipate this will be the case.

I imagine there will be some drawback or limitations to resale purchase. They will likely leave each programs current policies in place. I think the kicker will be how points are handled when reserving across brands, as in retail points can play while resale points have to stay. Sales will want resale buyers to “legitimize” their points with some sort of retail purchase. There’s so many examples of this around the industry it’s hard not to believe Hilton will make some sort of “deal” to get resale purchasers to buy retail for full access (so to speak).

I don’t have a lot of experience with anything except Marriott, but MVC requires “junk fees” to make resale points purchases “whole”. They also require a retail purchase if a owner of a deeded resale week wants to be able to convert that week to DC points and gain full access to their program.

I could be way off base. My history of speculation isn’t very good. Hilton might keep both programs separate without some sort of overlay program where owners can reserve from all pools of available resorts. Or maybe they’ll do some sort of deal like what they have with their By Hilton product, where regular HGVC members are pretty restricted to the bHilton inventory unless they purchase into that inventory.

 

[pedro47]

I feel we need to wait and see until the deal is finalized and approved.

 

[dayooper]

I’ve thought about this and have my opinion as to how I would like to see Hilton handle this issue.

Essentially, I’d love to see them keep the policy as is, plus change DRI’s policy to the same, where resale buyers of trust points can use them the same as retail points. I don’t anticipate this will be the case.

I imagine there will be some drawback or limitations to resale purchase. They will likely leave each programs current policies in place. I think the kicker will be how points are handled when reserving across brands, as in retail points can play while resale points have to stay. Sales will want resale buyers to “legitimize” their points with some sort of retail purchase. There’s so many examples of this around the industry it’s hard not to believe Hilton will make some sort of “deal” to get resale purchasers to buy retail for full access (so to speak).

I don’t have a lot of experience with anything except Marriott, but MVC requires “junk fees” to make resale points purchases “whole”. They also require a retail purchase if a owner of a deeded resale week wants to be able to convert that week to DC points and gain full access to their program.

I could be way off base. My history of speculation isn’t very good. Hilton might keep both programs separate without some sort of overlay program where owners can reserve from all pools of available resorts. Or maybe they’ll do some sort of deal like what they have with their By Hilton product, where regular HGVC members are pretty restricted to the bHilton inventory unless they purchase into that inventory.

The bHC concept of restricted access from regular HGVC members is changing. They have extended the club booking window a little on existing urban resorts, and have opened up Liberty Place and La Pacifica to Regular club booking windows. Club bookings at those two resorts are the same 276 days as any other HGVC resort.

While I do believe there will be some sort of fee or purchase coming for cross booking, this concept seems different from the Marriott/Vistana merger. Whereas those two brands seem to be on par with each other and eventually be as integrated as possible, this merger is different. Using the DRI resorts to get younger people in the door and upsale them into more expensive deeds, the intention is to keep the majority of the two systems separate. I wonder if there will be some DRI (and maybe even HGVC) resorts that will have units on both sides of the system? Keeping availability for DRI while granting HGVC members access as well. Or maybe a combined club that will allow in internal exchange? HGVC needs to be able to put their inventory into the HVC (DRI’s new branding). Maybe expanded club dues that grants access? We know HGVC loves their fees.

 

[dougp26364]

I feel we need to wait and see until the deal is finalized and approved.

Everything now is pure speculation and/or wishful thinking. The real fun begins when the sales staff starts their rumors as motivation for current owners to buy.

 

[Eric B]

The bHC concept of restricted access from regular HGVC members is changing. They have extended the club booking window a little on existing urban resorts, and have opened up Liberty Place and La Pacifica to Regular club booking windows. Club bookings at those two resorts are the same 276 days as any other HGVC resort.

While I do believe there will be some sort of fee or purchase coming for cross booking, this concept seems different from the Marriott/Vistana merger. Whereas those two brands seem to be on par with each other and eventually be as integrated as possible, this merger is different. Using the DRI resorts to get younger people in the door and upsale them into more expensive deeds, the intention is to keep the majority of the two systems separate. I wonder if there will be some DRI (and maybe even HGVC) resorts that will have units on both sides of the system? Keeping availability for DRI while granting HGVC members access as well. Or maybe a combined club that will allow in internal exchange? HGVC needs to be able to put their inventory into the HVC (DRI’s new branding). Maybe expanded club dues that grants access? We know HGVC loves their fees.

I'm new to HGVC, but would take the thought that the greater access to bHC will be long lasting with a grain of salt. My interpretation would be that it was a rational reaction to the lower occupancy rates given the travel restrictions, etc. Once travel demand rises, I would expect a similar reaction to reduce the access.

As for the units from both systems at the same resort, that's a fairly common approach taken at systems under common management like Wyndham and WorldMark, so it wouldn't surprise me if that happened.

 

[dayooper]

I'm new to HGVC, but would take the thought that the greater access to bHC will be long lasting with a grain of salt. My interpretation would be that it was a rational reaction to the lower occupancy rates given the travel restrictions, etc. Once travel demand rises, I would expect a similar reaction to reduce the access.

As for the units from both systems at the same resort, that's a fairly common approach taken at systems under common management like Wyndham and WorldMark, so it wouldn't surprise me if that happened.

Very well could be, but I seem to remember discussing the expanded booking windows back In November 2019 when the 2020 points chart came out. I could be wrong, though. It would be like finding a needle in a haystack to look up that thread.

 

[jd5504]

From the other side, I am a Diamond owner and this looks like horrible news to me. I went to the HGVC site and most of the places looked like hotels and not resorts. Also trying to get a list was like pulling teeth from a hen's mouth. Perhaps if I could sign in, I would get better information. Does anyone have a list?

Hilton Grand Vacations

At Hilton Grand Vacations, we believe life is incomplete without vacations. Learn how you can see the world from the comfort of our timeshare resorts

www.hiltongrandvacations.com

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I’ve thought about this and have my opinion as to how I would like to see Hilton handle this issue.

Essentially, I’d love to see them keep the policy as is, plus change DRI’s policy to the same, where resale buyers of trust points can use them the same as retail points. I don’t anticipate this will be the case.

I imagine there will be some drawback or limitations to resale purchase. They will likely leave each programs current policies in place. I think the kicker will be how points are handled when reserving across brands, as in retail points can play while resale points have to stay. Sales will want resale buyers to “legitimize” their points with some sort of retail purchase. There’s so many examples of this around the industry it’s hard not to believe Hilton will make some sort of “deal” to get resale purchasers to buy retail for full access (so to speak).

I don’t have a lot of experience with anything except Marriott, but MVC requires “junk fees” to make resale points purchases “whole”. They also require a retail purchase if a owner of a deeded resale week wants to be able to convert that week to DC points and gain full access to their program.

I could be way off base. My history of speculation isn’t very good. Hilton might keep both programs separate without some sort of overlay program where owners can reserve from all pools of available resorts. Or maybe they’ll do some sort of deal like what they have with their By Hilton product, where regular HGVC members are pretty restricted to the bHilton inventory unless they purchase into that inventory.

IMO...there are benefits to the resale policy for HGVC because it enables a more fluid and viable resale market which takes pressure off of deedbacks especially during down economies. If you look at the TUG statistics, there are very few HGVC deed walkaway datapoints. Although I am certain it happens, I believe their policy toward resale makes resales more viable to sell or give away than other systems in which resale low season units are considered junk because you are limited to the resort/season you purchased.

To compare, Vistana has designated some resale units as "mandatory" which grandfathers the points system to resale buyers vs. "voluntary" which don't. The mandatory resorts tend to be desirable resale units. For example, Westin Kaanapali, Westin Kierland can command $5 - $35k resale depending on the view and season. The voluntary resort units are mostly given away or low value. If they couldn't trade the voluntary week in II, I believe the value would plummet further because you would be limited to that season in a resort annually.

In the MVC system, only 60% of owners have enrolled their units after 10 years of the program. This creates limits to the trusts as to the quality of the units. Many of the best units in Hawaii and other locations are not enrolled because they will either be used, rented out or in limited times, traded in II. The fluidity of the HGVC system where you can reserve penthouses and oceanfront with points is the best value of the system.

I hope they keep it as is.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

From the release it sounds like Hilton will keep both systems separate (HGV and HGVC). IMO they will cross-pollinate inventory into both systems at the same resort such as KBC. For example putting weeks owners in the HGVC because this system is set up for weeks. If DRI (HVC) owners upgrade to HGVC they will still want access to many of the same resorts as before and they need to offer that. Assigning HGVC points to DRI weeks owners will incent them to trade their premier units into the HGVC system making it as fluid and available as the rest of the system.

IMHO...I hope HGVC adds Embarc and other premier property weeks to HGVC to expand locations because the biggest criticism of HGVC is limited locations. HGVC is positioned as the premium portfolio so expanding locations/options for the premier tier makes sense.

Their announcement also mentioned that HGVC will offer better accessibility to units in the HGVC tier so alternatively, they may give early reservation priority to certain HGVC properties as @Tamaradarann suggested similar to how they manage bHC in NYC and some Waikiki resorts today.

 

[dougp26364]

IMO...there are benefits to the resale policy for HGVC because it enables a more fluid and viable resale market which takes pressure off of deedbacks especially during down economies. If you look at the TUG statistics, there are very few HGVC deed walkaway datapoints. Although I am certain it happens, I believe their policy toward resale makes resales more viable to sell or give away than other systems in which resale low season units are considered junk because you are limited to the resort/season you purchased.

To compare, Vistana has designated some resale units as "mandatory" which grandfathers the points system to resale buyers vs. "voluntary" which don't. The mandatory resorts tend to be desirable resale units. For example, Westin Kaanapali, Westin Kierland can command $5 - $35k resale depending on the view and season. The voluntary resort units are mostly given away or low value. If they couldn't trade the voluntary week in II, I believe the value would plummet further because you would be limited to that season in a resort annually.

In the MVC system, only 60% of owners have enrolled their units after 10 years of the program. This creates limits to the trusts as to the quality of the units. Many of the best units in Hawaii and other locations are not enrolled because they will either be used, rented out or in limited times, traded in II. The fluidity of the HGVC system where you can reserve penthouses and oceanfront with points is the best value of the system.

I hope they keep it as is.

I tend to agree, and if Hilton had the network of resorts that others have had, we’d own a great deal more Hilton and a great deal less Marriott.

But, corporations are more concerned with profits. Deed backs are the HOA’s problem. It will be interesting to see how Hilton plays this one.

This acquisition interests me because I have become bored with Hilton’s collection of resorts and DRI’s collection has something to offer that interests us......... if the price is right.

 

[youppi]

For those who are interesting, here is the URL that lists all of the Diamond resorts. Unfortunately, it also lists all of the affiliates so you have to look at the symbols to determine which is which.

As someone stated earlier, Diamond IT, in all of their glory, decided (or screwed up) and deleted the link on the website to Locations so I had to access it abackdoor way to get it.

https://member.diamondresorts.com/Resorts/

DRI resorts are the one you can rent from them https://www.diamondresortsandhotels.com/Resorts

 

[dayooper]

From the release it sounds like Hilton will keep both systems separate. IMO they will cross-pollinate inventory into both systems at the same resort such as KBC. For example putting weeks owners in the HGVC because this system is set up for weeks. If DRI (HVC) owners upgrade to HGVC they will still want access to many of the same resorts as before and they need to offer that.

IMHO...HGVC will likely add Embarc and other premier property weeks to HGVC to expand locations because the biggest criticism of HGVC is limited locations. HGVC is positioned as the premium portfolio so expanding locations/options for the premier tier makes sense.

I think there are a couple of resorts that will be put into the HGVC system. I do believe Embarc will be available to HGVC and vice versa. I also think The Modern and Cabo Azul will be part of the HGVC system as well. They both transfer into the system with little issue and are in great locations. Sedona, Lake Tahoe, Maui, Kauai and maybe Virginia Beach are all locations I can see having dual access. How are the Caribbean resorts? That’s another under served area on the HGVC system.

 

[sscheibel225]

I am not sure this is good news or bad news for HGVC members, but I am leaning towards this is bad news

I’m seeing more competition for prime dates in/at prime resorts. And less desirable inventory getting less patronage.
Sorry to be supply/demand police.


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[dougp26364]

I’m seeing more competition for prime dates in/at prime resorts. And less desirable inventory getting less patronage.
Sorry to be supply/demand police.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t think you’ll see it play out this way. The ratio of high value weeks in desirable locations to owners will remain the same after the merger is complete as it was when both companies were separated. I think overall HGVC members own with Hilton because of the quality. They’re not likely to be in that big of a hurry to jump on DRI resorts, which overall are a lessor quality (based on our experience in both pools of resorts).

Where you may see an issue is in Hawaii where there is pent up frustration among HGVC members. Hilton will need to protect DRI owners of the Hawaiian trust. Even the most prudish of Hilton owners are likely to take a chance with a former DRI resort, just to get to Maui or Kauai. They might complain about it later but my bet is they’ll bite. Lake Tahoe may be the one other location I can think of were west coast HGVC members could be anxious for an opportunity to reserve.

Hilton can protect DRI deeded week and Hawaiian Trust owners by holding the line with their own club rules. That being you can’t book a club reservation until you’re within 9 months of the LAST day of your planned reservation. DRI allows trust owners to book, if I recall correctly, at 13 months, deeded weeks owners to book their home resort at 12 months and all others with points to book at 10 months. My memory was you needed to be on it at 10 months if you wanted to get a week at KBC or The Point at Poipu. If (and this is PURE speculation) HGVC holds those reservation availability dates, DRI owners won’t see a change in availability unless they wait until that 9 month date, then you’ll see a decline in availability.

As far as DRI owners booking into HGVC resorts, I bet Hilton does a pretty good job of protecting their own members. My guess is the points required to book into a “higher” level resort will dissuade the majority of DRI members. After all, what has HGVC got as far as location that DRI doesn’t already have? Maybe Oahu at HHV. Perhaps the Big Island resorts. Otherwise it will be much easier and cost effective for DRI owners to stay with their own collections.

Of course, your guess is just as good as mine. We probably won’t know who guessed correctly for another 5 years or more.

 

[Tamaradarann]

From the release it sounds like Hilton will keep both systems separate (HGV and HGVC). IMO they will cross-pollinate inventory into both systems at the same resort such as KBC. For example putting weeks owners in the HGVC because this system is set up for weeks. If DRI (HVC) owners upgrade to HGVC they will still want access to many of the same resorts as before and they need to offer that. Assigning HGVC points to DRI weeks owners will incent them to trade their premier units into the HGVC system making it as fluid and available as the rest of the system.

IMHO...I hope HGVC adds Embarc and other premier property weeks to HGVC to expand locations because the biggest criticism of HGVC is limited locations. HGVC is positioned as the premium portfolio so expanding locations/options for the premier tier makes sense.

Their announcement also mentioned that HGVC will offer better accessibility to units in the HGVC tier so alternatively, they may give early reservation priority to certain HGVC properties as @Tamaradarann suggested similar to how they manage bHC in NYC and some Waikiki resorts today.

I just thought about something related to DRI resales owners exchange privileges. As we know in HGVC resale owners have the same privileges to reserve at other resorts as developer owners. So if HGVC sets up an exchange system so HGVC owners can reserve a DRI resort at the 3 or 6 month mark, wouldn't they want to give ALL DRI owners the same privilege in the other direction? Wouldn't it be awkward if a DRI resale owner could reserve at an HGVC resort at the 3 or 6 month mark but couldn't reserve in other resorts in the DRI system?

 

[Fried_shrimp]

You need to be a DRI member to look at this link.

Sorry.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

I wonder if HGVC will address the issue of "dirty" points. As we know in HGVC points that were bought resale, (Dirty points is a negative term that Diamond created to debase resale) get every benefit of buying from the develper except Elite Status. We should all want resale purchases to be as close to the value of buying from the developer as possible to keep the value of what we own high.

Most of the benefits received by Diamond owners in The Club come from what you refer to as Elite status. So since you don't get Elite status with your dirty points, same as we don't get Metal status (Silver, Gold, Platinum), what benefits do you get other than to book units?

 

[Fried_shrimp]

I feel we need to wait and see until the deal is finalized and approved.

I wrote to the CEO's office of Diamond Resorts this past Tuesday. In the past, when I have written his office I usually receive a response within a couple of hours either via email, phone call, or both. This time, nada, zilch, 5 days later. So I don't think we're going to get a peep until the deal is finalized.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

Everything now is pure speculation and/or wishful thinking. The real fun begins when the sales staff starts their rumors as motivation for current owners to buy.

Since the announcement, Diamond sales staff are being very tight lipped about the pending merger. Truthfully, I'm surprised they are even still trying to make sales at this point.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

I just thought about something related to DRI resales owners exchange privileges. As we know in HGVC resale owners have the same privileges to reserve at other resorts as developer owners. So if HGVC sets up an exchange system so HGVC owners can reserve a DRI resort at the 3 or 6 month mark, wouldn't they want to give ALL DRI owners the same privilege in the other direction? Wouldn't it be awkward if a DRI resale owner could reserve at an HGVC resort at the 3 or 6 month mark but couldn't reserve in other resorts in the DRI system?

DRI dirty point owners are used to the restriction that they can only book resorts in their collection so IMO, they wouldn't bat an eye at not being able to book an HGVC resort since it's not in their collection.