Hilton Grand Vacations strikes deal to acquire Diamond Resorts

[Fried_shrimp]

One correction...KBC actually has sixteen 2BR units. Four each on floors 8-9 are part of one room category and then four more on both floors 3-4, I believe, were sold as another room category. Owners on 8-9 can't book the ones on 3-4 and vice versa. They also have, I think, one or two larger Presidential Suites that are also 2BR. We bought a 2BR in the floor 8-9 group back in 1998 when it was the Embassy Vacation Resort. We sold our unit in 2014 after we bought into the Marriott Vacation Club program. Here is a diagram of floor 8, with floor 9 being identical. I think the floor 3-4 units are also basically laid out the same.

View attachment 33464

The 16 2BR units have wrap-around lanais and all of the floor 8-9 units have at least a small ocean view. In our years of ownership we stayed in 824, 834, and 839. Units 829/929 and 834/934 are mainly mountain view from the long side of the lanai, but they do have a view of the ocean from the shorter side. 824/924 and 839/929 basically have full ocean views, but aren't classified as ocean front because they are in the stack farthest back from the beach. The units on floors 3-4 would have essentially the same views, but being much lower, would be less impressive and perhaps partially blocked by trees. Here are a few pics from floor 8:

1) First, the views from the long and short side of the lanai of unit 834.

Long side view:
View attachment 33465

Shorter side:
View attachment 33466

2) Second, the views from the long and short side of unit 839.

Long side:
View attachment 33467

Shorter side:
View attachment 33468
Note: This last shot was taken with a zoom lens in 2005, prior to the construction of the Honua Kai condos. That is the Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas on the other side of the open land in the photo.

Thank you for the correction. I have only been to the KBC one time and am not in the Hawaii Collection so my knowledge of the KBC is limited to what I have read from others and from my experience in a 1 bdrm deluxe unit.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I appreciate your input. As a Platinum owner with Diamond, from my perspective, I see no added benefit and only the possibility of loss. The best Diamond owners can hope for is to not lose the benefits we currently have that are, IMO, better than HGVC. We can book a minimum 2 night stay (so doing a weekend stay is possible), we pay no exchange fees for internal exchanges no matter what level the member is, we can roll our points to the next year free of charge, we can get 50% off the point cost of a stay at 59 or 30 days proir to check in depending on resort and length of stay, and other benefits. Hilton's maint fees may be less in and of themselves but with the ability to nickel and dime it's owners it seems to me, based upon the level a member is, you may be paying more than a Diamond owner. There are very few places that Hilton has a resort where we do not also have a resort (DC is the only location I can think of in my skimming of the Hilton location list). IMO, if we did have access to those Hilton locations it would probably cost an arm and a leg. Also, would I retain my Platinum status that I paid dearly for? Probably not but again, who knows? I guess my biggest gripe with this whole thing is the lack of information. Who makes a purchase without a plan of what's going to happen with the purchase and if they have a plan, why hasn't it been communicated? The less I hear, the more that is speculated and not in a good way. For you, you know what you bought into and you know your system isn't changing. Diamond owners know what we bought into and are afraid it will change.

Your post expresses similar feeling that which many HGVC owners had when there was talk that HGVC was going to be bought by the company that owns Diamond Resorts. I believe owners of both systems are familiar with their own system and like what they have. That is why I believe that what Mark Wang said about the acquisition is important to both HGVC and Diamond Resort Members:

The impression that I got from Mark Wang is that they will NOT be intergrating Diamond Resorts into HGVC. They will have a slightly lower brand name for Diamond Resorts HVC(Hilton Vacation Club). Therefore, the exchange privileges would be different into HGVC resorts if you own HVC and into HVC resorts if you own HGVC. I am not sure that would be but both systems have a period that ranges from 13/12 months to 10/9 months that only owners of a resort can make reservations.(Resort Reservation Period) That should stay the same. After the resort owners reservation period ends, reservations could be made for any of the resorts in the club that you own,(Club Resrvation Period). Perhaps at the 3 month or 6 month mark of the Club Reservation Period owners of either the HGVC or HVC might have access to make reservations at the club that they don't own. I believe that would be workable for both HGVC and Diamond Resort Owners.


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[T_R_Oglodyte]

Friday, Saturday, and Sunday check ins have normal weekly costs. Mon-Thur check in dates have a 10% premium for checking in on a "non-standard" day. Didn't use to be like that though (a recent.....last 5 years.....change). For nightly rates, Sun-Thur is 10% of the weekly rate and Fri and Sat are 30% of the weekly rate (also a change....originally Fri & Sat were 25% of the weekly rate which worked out to the correct 100% of the week.....then they decided more people were doing weekends and boosted it to 30%).

In at least some resorts it also has to do with inventory control. At Po'ipu, for example, all inventory is held in one-week blocks. So when a reservation spans across those weekend checkin days, fulfilling the reservation requires partial inventory from two of those week blocks. When someone else comes along and makes a reservation, then they need to know what remainder(s) is getting assigned to that reservation. The system works much easier, and leaves fewer one-or-two day gaps, when check-in/out occurs on the weekends.

 

[GT75]

Your post expresses similar feeling that which many HGVC owners had when there was talk that HGVC was going to be bought by the company that owns Diamond Resorts. I believe owners of both systems are familiar with their own system and like what they have. That is why I believe that what Mark Wang said about the acquisition is important to both HGVC and Diamond Resort Members:

The impression that I got from Mark Wang is that they will NOT be intergrating Diamond Resorts into HGVC. They will have a slightly lower brand name for Diamond Resorts HVC(Hilton Vacation Club). Therefore, the exchange privileges would be different into HGVC resorts if you own HVC and into HVC resorts if you own HGVC. I am not sure that would be but both systems have a period that ranges from 13/12 months to 10/9 months that only owners of a resort can make reservations.(Resort Reservation Period) That should stay the same. After the resort owners reservation period ends, reservations could be made for any of the resorts in the club that you own,(Club Resrvation Period). Perhaps at the 3 month or 6 month mark of the Club Reservation Period owners of either the HGVC or HVC might have access to make reservations at the club that they don't own. I believe that would be workable for both HGVC and Diamond Resort Owners.

I think that @Tamaradarann has summed up my thoughts on this merger. I am first going to wait for the announcement of the new management team of the combined company. I know that the HGV members are expecting a certain team but I will wait to see. I am glad that @Fried_shrimp and other Diamond owners like their ownership. That is very comforting to me. Honestly, I am happy with HGVC now and really don't need additional resorts (in fact I don't see myself visiting some of the new resorts being added now into HGVC due to the high point requirements). I also have the resorts that I love. I wouldn't mind having some crossover between the two systems (including the old Intrawest system) to add a little occasional variety.

 

[bakera]

Status only comes with purchasing from the developer. They are what we call "clean" points. Dirty points are resale points and have no status or benefits with them. We used to (maybe still do) have the ability to clean up dirty points by making a purchase of clean points the equaled at least 50% of the dirty points (clean 10,000 dirty points by purchasing 5,000 clean points and ending up with 15,000 clean points).

I truly hope that we get to keep our status and booking privileges as well. Personally, I don't care who takes my maint fees each year as long as I get to continue enjoying what I bought. If we lose our status or force us into HGVC's rules though, that isn't what we, as Diamond owners, bought and I believe HGVC will see a large exodus of Diamond owners.

Not true. “Dirty” points do earn status, it’s just that you cannot use them for any of the worthless additions that they’ve introduced in recent years (such as cruises, flights or hotel stays). We started our journey with DRI back when it was the Grand Vacation Club (prior to Sunterra taking over) with 5000 points. Those are the only points we ever bought from the developer but have increased our ownership to 31000 by buying resale. We are Gold members by having over 30000 points.

 

[bakera]

Friday, Saturday, and Sunday check ins have normal weekly costs. Mon-Thur check in dates have a 10% premium for checking in on a "non-standard" day. Didn't use to be like that though (a recent.....last 5 years.....change). For nightly rates, Sun-Thur is 10% of the weekly rate and Fri and Sat are 30% of the weekly rate (also a change....originally Fri & Sat were 25% of the weekly rate which worked out to the correct 100% of the week.....then they decided more people were doing weekends and boosted it to 30%).

That depends on the legacy deeds of the accommodation held in the trust. For example at Woodford Bridge all accommodation was originally Sunday change over, so the current ‘week’ price only applies to Sunday checkins and we have to pay the nightly rate for any other checkin date.

 

[geist1223]

I am not sure that would be but both systems have a period that ranges from 13/12 months to 10/9 months that only owners of a resort can make reservations.(Resort Reservation Period) That should stay the same.


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With DRI the early booking Windows are not restricted to a single Resort but to all the Resorts in the Collection.

 

[WORLD TRAVELER]

When reading over the email from Hilton, it states that DRI inventory would be available through RCI. Would this mean that HGVC members would have some sort of preference period over other RCI members to book those rooms similar to what Interval does with Marriott for Marriott to Marriott or would we be competing with every RCI member for the available DRI properties? I suppose this RCI exchange method would only be in place until the internal exchange program is developed for HGVC, DRI and Embarc (C.I.) members to use.

 

[bizaro86]

When reading over the email from Hilton, it states that DRI inventory would be available through RCI. Would this mean that HGVC members would have some sort of preference period over other RCI members to book those rooms similar to what Interval does with Marriott for Marriott to Marriott or would we be competing with every RCI member for the available DRI properties? I suppose this RCI exchange method would only be in place until the internal exchange program is developed for HGVC, DRI and Embarc (C.I.) members to use.

It seems like a no-brainer to me for them to launch a rci/II competitor. Just with their own owners they'd have significant scale. Right now they pay RCI some sort of bulk fee, which they could pay to themselves out of MF. I think they'd be able to get significant traction, especially if they could get DVC to come with them.

Then market to independents and the remaining mini-systems (Holiday Inn, Vacation Villages, etc)

 

[GT75]

It seems like a no-brainer to me for them to launch a rci/II competitor. Just with their own owners they'd have significant scale. Right now they pay RCI some sort of bulk fee, which they could pay to themselves out of MF. I think they'd be able to get significant traction, especially if they could get DVC to come with them.

I would be in favor of that. So far, I have never traded in either RCI or II. I have only used my points within the HGVC system. But I have used my points at Fiesta Americana - Los Cabos and Intrawest - Zihuatanejo.

 

[Talent312]

I have never traded in either RCI or II.

I've booked nine RCI resorts thru HGVC - mostly adequate to nice.
Even if DRI is folded into HGVC, IMHO, RCI still brings added value.
.

 

[escanoe]

I've booked nine RCI resorts thru HGVC - mostly adequate to nice.
Even if DRI is folded into HGVC, IMHO, RCI still brings added value.
.

I have a couple of RCI Points traders. I don’t see leaving that ... but I would see HGVC setting up an exchange with DRI as a big plus.

Giving II and RCI more competition would be good for consumers. I would expect much lower exchange fees for an HGVC/DRI exchange than what we get with RCI now. If you are HGVC now and trade in RCI much, you would probably be doing better owning an RCI Points property, anyway.

Losing HGVC, DRI, and Disney ... that would be a blow to RCI. But it would still be worthwhile to me.

 

[Tamaradarann]

With DRI the early booking Windows are not restricted to a single Resort but to all the Resorts in the Collection.

I have gone to a Diamond Resort Presentation and did learn about the Collection Trusts that they have set up which then becomes your home resort for the purposes of the reservation window discussion. I did get a laugh out of the fact that the Hawaii Collection had more non Hawaii Resorts than Hawaii Resorts. So there were way more weeks in that collection than there were Hawaii weeks that could be booked.

 

[ccwu]

Went owners update in Lagoon tower today. I asked the salesperson about HGV acquired DRI... she said that we could Google it. They knew very little and they were discourage to talk about it. They just want to focus on the sales pitch.


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[IrishDave]

Went owners update in Lagoon tower today. I asked the salesperson about HGV acquired DRI... she said that we could Google it. They knew very little and they were discourage to talk about it. They just want to focus on the sales pitch.


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Tell them your Google results make it clear you should only buy on the secondary market, never from a salesperson!

 

[ccwu]

Tell them your Google results make it clear you should only buy on the secondary market, never from a salesperson!

They offer my resale Hilton club that I bought for $11,000 for trade in $83,000 and resale 57th street (I got for 5,000) for $50,000. Not a bad deal. I need to buy something for about $20K in pre construction price platinum premier Maui unit plus 15,000 bonus pts and Lower my MF by $2000. I rejected bc I like my resale NY properties better than Maui one. The price now is much lower than 2019’s offer. Some are close to resale price.


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[bakera]

I have gone to a Diamond Resort Presentation and did learn about the Collection Trusts that they have set up which then becomes your home resort for the purposes of the reservation window discussion. I did get a laugh out of the fact that the Hawaii Collection had more non Hawaii Resorts than Hawaii Resorts. So there were way more weeks in that collection than there were Hawaii weeks that could be booked.

Yes, and the EU collection includes some units in Florida.

 

[ccwu]

Yes, and the EU collection includes some units in Florida.

They spread the MF by adding some LV resort to HI properties and to flatten the costs.

All cost are shared by the group of trust properties. When Florida one property has storm or flood damage, the EU will share.


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[CalGalTraveler]

They offer my resale Hilton club that I bought for $11,000 for trade in $83,000 and resale 57th street (I got for 5,000) for $50,000. Not a bad deal. I need to buy something for about $20K in pre construction price platinum premier Maui unit plus 15,000 bonus pts and Lower my MF by $2000. I rejected bc I like my resale NY properties better than Maui one. The price now is much lower than 2019’s offer. Some are close to resale price.


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We've had similar offers with our resale - never gets below $10k additional money. It would take 10 years to breakeven on the $20k with a $2k/year lower MF. I wouldn't take it either because club points won't help you with NYC bHC reservations and 10 years is a long time. Were the points level equivalent?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Reservation fees are hardly irrelevant. One of the biggest reasons I converted from my fixed/floating weeks to points was due to the rising costs of reservations fees with RCI/II. Also, most Diamond members don't book a week stay. Many (including myself) book many, many weekends (due to still working and being close enough to drive to multiple Diamond resorts). Multiply 15 weekends a year plus a few week or longer stays times $59 a booking and you're looking at some serious money in reservation fees. Just because reservation fees are irrelevant to you doesn't make them irrelevant to everyone else.

You missed my point. It is all relative: If hypothetically MF for HGVC Lagoon are $1800 and it is $59 to reserve, the total is $1859. If the MF for KBC is $2200 but no res fee, which is the better deal? One could make 6 reservations with fees and still be ahead of the no reservation fee scenario.

Besides there are methods in the HGVC system to avoid reservation fees for multiple reservations. I get free all inclusive reservations at my HGVC property. So after the base fee everything is free.

 

[nuwermj]

Yes, and the EU collection includes some units in Florida.

The EU collection had 207 weeks at Cypress Pointe. Diamond withdrew all but 5 week in 2016.

 

[nuwermj]

They spread the MF by adding some LV resort to HI properties and to flatten the costs.

All cost are shared by the group of trust properties. When Florida one property has storm or flood damage, the EU will share.

Yes, that is DRI propaganda, but it should be taken skeptically. There were 461,619,220 points in the HI collection on December 31, 2019. The number of points at the two Hawaii resorts in the collection was 203,161,500. Thus, only 44% of the points were in HI. Since Diamond sells HI points with Hawaii as the special destination, this means 416.6 million demanders are chasing 203.2 million reservations.

 

[youppi]

Yes, that is DRI propaganda, but it should be taken skeptically. There were 461,619,220 points in the HI collection on December 31, 2019. The number of points at the two Hawaii resorts in the collection was 203,161,500. Thus, only 44% of the points were in HI. Since Diamond sells HI points with Hawaii as the special destination, this means 416.6 million demanders are chasing 203.2 million reservations.

I think only the HI Collection members can book The Modern Honolulu on Oahu at 13 months even if The Modern is not in the HI Collection.

 

[ccwu]

We've had similar offers with our resale - never gets below $10k additional money. It would take 10 years to breakeven on the $20k with a $2k/year lower MF. I wouldn't take it either because club points won't help you with NYC bHC reservations and 10 years is a long time. Were the points level equivalent?

I have two NYHC contracts. I let go one 10,000 points MF $3300) Exchanged into grand Waikikian 2 bedroom platinum premier 14,400. We have a net gain of 4,400 (MF $1900) points. Since we still have NYC residence Club and 57th street too. We thought We have plenty bHC points. But this is our cheapest offer from all purchases so far. They can only take one resale for a sale over 100k contract. I was told they only accept certain resales (no affiliated. only resorts developed by HGV.) they love HC because there are buyers. Plus we also got 10k bonus points and 30k Hilton honor points.


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[brp]

We've had similar offers with our resale - never gets below $10k additional money. It would take 10 years to breakeven on the $20k with a $2k/year lower MF. I wouldn't take it either because club points won't help you with NYC bHC reservations and 10 years is a long time. Were the points level equivalent?

I would consider going from a W. 57th 5200 Studio Plus to a 7200 Studio Premier for $10K additional. But the offers don't below about $20K, IIRC.

Cheers,