Hilton Grand Vacations strikes deal to acquire Diamond Resorts

[Sandy VDH]

In the past HGVC let you register a fixed week and enroll it in HGVC without an additional points purchase, unlike other players. There is a charge to to this and a charge to set up the HGVC account, but it is done at affiliates, certainly with the Bay Club and with the S FL resorts where owners may not have already been part of HGVC. Wonder if they will let those resorts that are weeks and not points convert into HGVC points the same way. I don't see why not.

 

[karibkeith]

Frankly, we would both love to go back to the Club IntraWest resorts that are currently owned by Diamond.

Diamond bought club Intrawest and rebranded it as Embarc. Despite being told on two occasions that they would be available to Club members, they are not. They are in a separate "trust". It will be interested to see what happens with the merger.

Diamond has a convoluted portfolio because so many properties were acquired by Diamond acquisitions of small chains. So they ended up with some dogs as well as some good properties. They ended up with a slew of properties in Sedona with acquisitions. In some cases they have been slow with renovations of acquired properties. They make a lot of promises but with little action. I hope the standard of representatives improves.

 

[karibkeith]

I always thought DRI’s website was relatively easy to use when we were owners. IMO it was a darn site better than HGVC’s site.

As a non member pf HGVC, I cannot sign on in the hope of getting more details but to the extent that. I had access, I was not impressed with their website. I could not even find a list of properties

 

[Clifbell]

HGV strikes deal to acquire Diamond Resorts - https://seekingalpha.com/news/36711...k-3&utm_medium=email&utm_source=seeking_alpha


or HGV press release - https://www.hiltongrandvacations.co...es-pdf/hgv_press-release_2021-03-10_final.pdf

or Q&As on HGV Club page - https://club.hiltongrandvacations.com/en/hgv-announces-plans-to-acquire-diamond-resorts

Previous threads on this merger when Apollo was looking to buy HGV - https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/apollo-group-looking-to-buy-hgvc-merged.294385/ or https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/apollo-diamond.314104/

I am pretty excited by this event as I hgvc and this puts them on par with the bigger timeshare companies... I am sure there will be issues with the merger. The one thing I am struggling to see is the "real" locations vs. the affiliated locations... It is hard to see how this merger will unfold, but I am the optimist

 

[karibkeith]

We are DRI Owners. With Club Select/Club Combination we are Platinum. We actually only own 19,000 DRI Points. How will this affect our Ownership and Benefits? Also with the DRI Exchange Program we have 2 Level 6's and 1 Level 2 Deposited. We have 5 years to use those. We recently changed from the Hawaiian Collection to Cabo Azul.

We are not happy. We are in a state of confusion. Every one talks about how wonderful KBC is. We were not that impressed when we were there a couple years ago. They Beach was only about 15 feet at low tide and basically nil at high tide. We have also heard rumors of issues with KBC that may involve the underpinings of structure and also Pool issues.

We have enjoyed DRI and have learned to use the System to our Benefit. Nothing we can do about it. Wait and see what develops.

I am in the same boat and it has just sprung a leak. Somehow I see trouble with my Platinum status. It would be nice if they left the two systems as they are but with some cross-over provisions. I am awaiting the inevitable class action suit.

 

[rickandcindy23]

This merger will not affect me in the slightest, but I can honestly say, Hilton and Diamond both charging extra fees for exchanges is a big turnoff for me. And Diamond is acquiring so many properties now that those fees are an unknown to me. I recently got a match to a Branson resort and saw the disclosure that says, "There may be fees..." on my II exchange form. I am going to trade that one away. I am not going to pay extra fees in Branson or Orlando, the two easiest places to get Marriott. If Marriott decides to follow suit and charge fees, we are all going to be complaining.

 

[WORLD TRAVELER]

I'm thinking that HGVC can implement a similar program that they had with Club Interwest (Embarc) previously where Club Interwest was considered an affiliate of HGVC and they maintained their own point structure for their resorts and were given a point overlay to use to exchange into HGVC and Club Interwest properties were assigned a point value for HGVC members to be able to exchange into at the 9 month timeframe through the club exchange window. This type of point overlay could be applied to the entire Diamond system along with Club Interwest (Embarc). Then they wouldn't have to have to move properties in and out of a trust. They could leave each system's internal point programs currently as they are and facilitate the overlay for exchanges in and between each system's properties.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I am a Diamond deeded week owner in Lake Tahoe-Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort 2 bedroom. How do you think HGVC will deal with traditional weeks owners? At our last owner up date 2 years ago they were really pushing conversion into/buy more points, which we have no interest in doing. Do you think HGCV will offer a buy back to owners of traditional weeks?

You should be able to continue to use your week like you always do or deposit it to RCI if that is your desire. I would think that HGVC will give your unit some type of point value in the future. Then you may be able to exchange it within the HGVC/HVC system if and when that is set up without going to RCI. As far as buying it back your week, HGVC will most probably give you some credit for your Lake Tahoe Timeshare toward the purchase an HGVC Timeshare like they do with current HGVC members at owners updates.

 

[karibkeith]

A question for @dougp26364 @T_R_Oglodyte and anybody else that might want to take a wild guess: How hard would it be to pull certain resorts out of the DRI Trust? If HGVC wanted to rebrand a few of the Diamond properties into HGVC resorts, could they just pull them out? I'm not familiar enough with a trust product to know if there are restrictions to what HGVC/Diamond can and can't do.

Interesting question! I am a member in the U.S. collection which has grown over the years. If they pull some resorts out, I will be in line for the inevitable class action suit.
I think they may have to go with some grandfathered provisions. HGVC should not be able to cherry pick through DRI resorts to the detriment of current DRI members.
Whenever DRI bought out a chain they had to deal with owners in the acquired entity. They would try to have them buy into the Club. If there was a lot of resistance, they had a problem like with a place in Lake Tahoe and with Intrawest/Embarc. Some DRI properties have legacy week owners. HGVC will now face problems with DRI owners. HGVC bought the company, not the members' rights. This whole thing is turning into a real can of worms.

 

[escanoe]

This whole thing is turning into a real can of worms.

Or is it just a bunch of of people (self included) blabbing on the Internet?

I would be surprised if what you own is devalued. But with everything in life (certainly timeshares) there is always a certain amount of unpredictability.

 

[karibkeith]

I am sure they will develop some sort of "system" to permit interaction between the trusts, bHC and existing HGV resorts.

I sure hope you are right. What is "by Hilton Club"? Is it timeshare? If so, why is there two Hilton timeshare entities? I have wondered why Wyndham has three entities and never attempted to merge them. It gives me hope that DRI will remains separate! If I had wanted to be an HGVC member I would have into it and not into DRI.

 

[karibkeith]

Interesting article on the CEP mindset.

Hilton Grand Vacations CEO on Diamond acquisition: it 'really sets us up for recovery'

Yahoo Finance’s Julie Hyman, Myles Udland, and Brian Sozzi speak with Hilton Grand Vacations CEO Mark Wang about the company's $1.4 billion Diamond Resorts Acquisition, and timeshare industry outlook.

www.google.com

So is the rebranding going to be Hilton Not-so-Grand Vacation Club or Hilton's Second-Class-Citizens Vacation Club? Sure sounds like a screwing in the future for us DRI owners or at the least some reduction to a "how did you ever get invited to the party?" status.

 

[karibkeith]

BRIAN SOZZI: Mark what are your plan-- are you going to rebrand Diamond Resorts? How do you think about the integration of the asset?

MARK WANG: Sure. No, great-- great question. That's where we can bring significant value. We have this iconic brand with Hilton Grand Vacations, and we're going to be rebranding the Diamond portfolio. It'll take a couple of years to get the rebranding completed.

But when you think about the power of putting the Hilton brand on and connecting it to the Hilton [? engine, ?] it will, number one, create a tremendous amount of credibility. It'll allow us to attract customers, higher-quality customers than Diamond was able to attract. And we think the performance of the combined entity is going to be very powerful.


Kind of a harsh way to talk about your recently acquired customer base.

I Generally like HGVC management, but seems like a bit too much elitism from the CEO, "It'll allow us to attract customers, higher-quality customers than Diamond was able to attract."

Any of you Diamond owners thinking about the transition to HGV offended? Wonder how they talk about us resale buyers behind our back?

You are damn right I am offended! As I said in an earlier post we are destined to being treated like second hand citizens by the snob CEO!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@karibkeith I agree that didn't come out right. However it wouldn't take it too literally. It's not what they say, it's what they do. Compared to what I have heard about Diamond, HGVC management has been good to owners.

IMO except for branding, I expect that they would keep both systems the same but gradually make changes:

1) Permit point overlays and cross-over trades between systems. Some will be mini-system e.g. Embarc/HGVC affiliate trades with HGV points - HGV has a history of affiliate trading with Embarc before it was acquired by Diamond. It wouldn't be hard to pull out those old points charts. Others will be RCI like trades for DRI Collection resorts or deeded weeks.
2) As people deedback units and walk from DRI trust shares, HGVC can withdraw units from the trust for other purposes. No different than MVC or Vistana moving inventory around their trusts and deeded weeks. As @nuwermj stated previously, certain resorts may become a mix of trust, deed and ??? programs. I am sure the lawyers put in place trust language to allow for such changes. I wouldn't be surprised if Diamond was already doing this.
3) It is also possible that they may offload some properties that don't meet their standards and would be too costly to renovate relative to the sales/rental/management fee potential. With so many redundant properties in certain locations, jettisoning certain properties may increase profits.

 

[Sandy VDH]

As a non member pf HGVC, I cannot sign on in the hope of getting more details but to the extent that. I had access, I was not impressed with their website. I could not even find a list of properties

Try out TUG page and try this......

Timeshare Vacation Resorts | Hilton Grand Vacations

Learn about the upscale timeshare vacation resorts and destinations that Hilton Grand Vacations has to offer. Explore vacation ownership today.

www.hiltongrandvacations.com

HGVC Detailed Resort & Affiliated Information

Please limit this thread to only the detailed information on a HGVC specific resorts. This can include affiliate information, resort maps, room codes or other specific resort information which TUG members going to this resort will find useful. For discussion/commentary please use the to...

tugbbs.com

 

[Sandy VDH]

I sure hope you are right. What is "by Hilton Club"? Is it timeshare? If so, why is there two Hilton timeshare entities?

By Hilton Club (bHC) is a separate club. Owners there have slightly different rules. The bHC resorts are generally urban locations (DC and NYC) and they have priority to their own bHCs clubs first, then that availability eventually opens up to HGVC members. bHC are allowed to book HGVC units with their bHC points. It is like a club within a club. The currency is the exact same currency, it is just different inventory buckets.

Wyndham is like that with levels (WM aside it is it like $$ and Euros), DRI sounds like it is like that too.

Most of us here, think that HGVC is a great company, managed well, and mindful of its owners. I don't know why you think they will treat you like second class members.

 

[Talent312]

So is the rebranding going to be Hilton Not-so-Grand Vacation Club or Hilton's Second-Class-Citizens Vacation Club? Sure sounds like a screwing in the future for us DRI owners or at the least some reduction to a "how did you ever get invited to the party?" status.

You're likely to be treated way better than Westgate owners at Elara. When HGVC took over Elara, the existing owners were largely ignored. Unlike Cinderella, they did not get a chariot, there was no glass slipper, and no prince (or white knight) came calling. IOW, they could not/cannot join HGVC. To be fair, HGVC only took over management + sales at the site.

What is "by Hilton Club"? Is it timeshare? If so, why is there two Hilton timeshare entities?

"Hilton Club" was intended as the skyboxes on the HGVC stadium, meaning elite resorts where the well-heeled need not associate with regular HGVC folk. However, AFAIK, only "Hilton Club of NY" was branded as such. Instead, most similarly situated urban resorts were branded as "--- by Hilton Club" to indicate their above-the-rest status. Owners there get extended booking windows and other perks, but they are bookable within a restricted window by all HGVC members.

.

 

[karibkeith]

This is the thing I don’t get about Diamond’s Destination Exchange, It says at this time you must have a Diamond managed resort to enroll? So it does not seem like as much of a marketing opportunity as it could be.

I am a DRI owner. During the past year, DRI announced they were terminating their association with II at the end of 2020 and giving a membership in Destination Xchange. When I did a search on DEX I found guides back to 2016-2017. It appeared to me that it was an exchange company for anyone to join., the latest edition is 2020-21 and it is a different guide than the one for members of the Club. The former has resort descriptions and the latter does not as the descriptions and availability is integrated with the DRI system. I am led to believe that their are twin DEX systems, One for DRI Club members and one for non-club people. DRI Club members deposit through an existing system (Club Select/Comb) and non-club people deposit directly. I think DRI Club members are barred from direct deposits which could be another Diamond screwing.

 

[Zenichiro]

I have my doubts but I am hoping for access to Great wolf lodge. Anyone know if they come with the deal?

 

[Sandy VDH]

I have my doubts but I am hoping for access to Great wolf lodge. Anyone know if they come with the deal?

Dont think so. But not sure if anybody is sure of the exact list. But I think these were associates.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

You're likely to be treated way better than Westgate owners at Elara. When HGVC took over Elara, the existing owners were largely ignored. Unlike Cinderella, they did not get a chariot, there was no glass slipper, and no prince (or white knight) came calling. IOW, they could not/cannot join HGVC. To be fair, HGVC only took over management + sales at the site.

Of course in the case of Elara, its also possible that Westgate mandated that HGV not try to poach or attempt their customers...

 

[1Kflyerguy]

You are damn right I am offended! As I said in an earlier post we are destined to being treated like second hand citizens by the snob CEO!

I think what he was getting at is the demographics are slightly different between the two companies. By combining into once entity, in theory they have increased their addressable market.

According to the investor call they held on Wednesday, the average Diamond customer has an income of just under $100,000 with a Fico of 726, and the average HGV customer has an income of just over $100,000 and a Fico of 746. Both numbers are very good.

I think Diamonds trust model if more appealing to younger buyers that may feel the deeded week concept that HGV still uses ties you into a specific location. In addition you can sell trust points in smaller increments, both for the initial sale and subsequent add-on sales.

 

[escanoe]

When I did a search on DEX I found guides back to 2016-2017. It appeared to me that it was an exchange company for anyone to join., the latest edition is 2020-21 and it is a different guide than the one for members of the Club. The former has resort descriptions and the latter does not as the descriptions and availability is integrated with the DRI system. I am led to believe that their are twin DEX systems, One for DRI Club members and one for non-club people.

Where do you see info for the DEX anyone can join? This is the only website I see for Destination Exchange. When you click to sign up or log it, it seems pretty straight forward you must be a Diamond owner. Thanks for helping to sort this out.

 

[youppi]

I am a DRI owner. During the past year, DRI announced they were terminating their association with II at the end of 2020 and giving a membership in Destination Xchange. When I did a search on DEX I found guides back to 2016-2017. It appeared to me that it was an exchange company for anyone to join., the latest edition is 2020-21 and it is a different guide than the one for members of the Club. The former has resort descriptions and the latter does not as the descriptions and availability is integrated with the DRI system. I am led to believe that their are twin DEX systems, One for DRI Club members and one for non-club people. DRI Club members deposit through an existing system (Club Select/Comb) and non-club people deposit directly. I think DRI Club members are barred from direct deposits which could be another Diamond screwing.

It was not for everybody. DRI started DeX for DRI deeded owners in 2016-2017 with only DRI resorts in it. It was a kind of THE Club for deeded weeks owners.
You can search the DRI section about this subject (there is many posts on that).

 

[dougp26364]

You are damn right I am offended! As I said in an earlier post we are destined to being treated like second hand citizens by the snob CEO!

Wow! I think you’re just a little bit premature with this thought.

We were DRI owners from 1998 until 2015. We’ve been HGVC owners since 2002. With DRI we had 15,500 points between our 2 deeded Polo Towers weeks and, at the time, Silver Elite status.

It’s strong knowledge of both management styles, how each company works and the quality of both products. I do not anticipate that DRI owners will be treated like “second hand” owners/citizens. Having said that, I will say definitively IMHO that DRI resorts are a step below HGVC.

So here’s the quandary. Do you try to bring all DRI resorts up to HGVC standards or, have a different tier of ownership. Have you owned with DRI long enough to know what DRI’s choice was when they bought Sunterra out of bankruptcy? They choose to bring all the resorts up to DRI standards. Any idea what they did to MF’s? They skyrocketed overnight and kept climbing for a couple of years.

HGVC appears to want to take the other option. Keep DRI resorts at basically current standards and rebrand them.

Second hand? Maybe a different class or their own class but not second hand.