Hilton Grand Vacations strikes deal to acquire Diamond Resorts

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I saw yesterday where a law firm was on that right off the bat. Someone must have tipped them off.

Hilton Merger Investigation: Halper Sadeh LLP Announces Investigation Into Whether the Merger of Hilton Grand Vacations Inc. Is Fair to Shareholders; Investors Are Encouraged to Contact the Firm – HGV

Halper Sadeh LLP, a global investor rights law firm, is investigating whether the merger of Hilton Grand Vacations Inc. (NYSE: HGV) and Diamond Resorts Inter...

www.businesswire.com

Hilton Merger Investigation: Halper Sadeh LLP Announces Investigation Into Whether the Merger of Hilton Grand Vacations Inc. Is Fair to Shareholders; Investors Are Encouraged to Contact the Firm – HGV

Looks as if they don't have any evidence of anything wrong. The firm is just trolling for clients who might bring them information they can use to build a case.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Looks as if they don't have any evidence of anything wrong. The firm is just trolling for clients who might bring them information they can use to build a case.

Sadly there are many law firms that just wait and sue anytime certain things happen.. probably nothing really there..

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Yes, Transitions does suck at $1,000 per contract to deedback. From what I've been reading HGVC doesn't have a formal deedback program but units can be deeded back. HGVC seems more interested in helping you resale your unit than taking it back.

HGV does indeed have a deedback program, but they don't promote or advertise it. But if you contact them, its in place. They have discussed it some of the past investor presentations.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Sadly there are many law firms that just wait and sue anytime certain things happen.. probably nothing really there..

Yeah - deals like this are so complex and the compliance standards are so fuzzy that if you muck around enough you can find something that looks shady. Then you bring the suit and try to make it sure it's less bother to pay you off so you go away.

When more people are graduating than there are jobs available, the excess lawyers have to find business somewhere.

 

[pedro47]

This maybe is a good deal for the whole timeshare industry. Suppose Hilton could bring up all of DRI resorts to their hotel standards; this could change how the ts image is viewed by the general public, banks and the stock market. IMHO.

Hilton Grand Vacation would have timeshare resorts on all the world continents, plus the cruise industries and the Carribbean and Pacific Islands. .

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Hilton Grand Vacation would have timeshare resorts on all the world continents, plus the Carribbean and Pacific Islands.

I don't know to what extent you are counting on DRI for that statement, but the DRI only operates resorts in the US, Mexico, and Europe. Dots on their map in other continents are not DRI resorts - they are simply affiliates with whom DRI swaps a little bit of inventory.

 

[escanoe]

I don't know that everyone wants timeshares up to HGVC standards. I like my HGVC ownership a lot, but I also like the value I can draw from my RCI points traders ... and I usually stay in things not up to HGVC luxury/maintenance standards.

What I think will benefit the industry is getting rid of or reforming the bad actors in selling practices and management. If Diamond was a big, bad actor ... reforming it may very well be good overall for the industry.

This maybe is a good deal for the whole timeshare industry. Suppose Hilton could bring up all of DRI resorts to their hotel standards; this could change how the ts image is viewed by the general public, banks and the stock market. IMHO.

Hilton Grand Vacation would have timeshare resorts on all the world continents, plus the cruise industries and the Carribbean and Pacific Islands. .

 

[Fried_shrimp]

HGVC is not quite as good in this regard. We also don't have fees to exchange internally although, except in some special cases, there are booking fees for any reservation, so maybe that could be considered an exchange fee. Our minimum is 3 nights (again, except in special cases), and we do have a saving fee. I can see why you would prefer the Diamond rules in this regard.

Cheers.

According to some info I found, there is a $59 exchange (reservation) fee to book a week anywhere outside of your home resort. For us in Diamond, in this aspect, everything in Diamond is considered a home resort. Only booking differences are in home collection you can book 13 months out (14 if Platinum) and out of home collection 10 months out (11 if Platinum).

 

[Fried_shrimp]

On the other hand I think club fees are much higher annually vs the annual membership fee for HGVC.
What would the club fees be for 10,000; 20,000 and 30,000 points vs the annual membership for 1, 2, or 3 owned weeks?

I can tell you for my 50,000 points I paid $9,200 in maint fees. I get approximately 100 nights per year out of those 50,000 points which equates to about $92 a night, usually in a 2 bdrm unit.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

We do not pay any fees to Book or stay at any DRI Owned/Managed Resort.

Nor do we pay any fees to book an affiliate resort either.

 

[brp]

According to some info I found, there is a $59 exchange (reservation) fee to book a week anywhere outside of your home resort.

Yup. That's the booking fee I mentioned, and a downside to HGVC relative to DRI.

Cheers.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

According to some info I found, there is a $59 exchange (reservation) fee to book a week anywhere outside of your home resort. For us in Diamond, in this aspect, everything in Diamond is considered a home resort. Only booking differences are in home collection you can book 13 months out (14 if Platinum) and out of home collection 10 months out (11 if Platinum).

Correct - though I look at it a bit differently.

We pay an annual Club membership fee. When we joined the Club, part of the consideration was that we could then book anywhere in the Club without paying a reservation. Without being in the Club, we would have to pay some company an exchange fee to do the same thing. Then there was the issue that if we tried to to reserve through an exchange, we were depending on the exchange company receiving a deposit we could work with, and with being high enough in the pecking order at the exchange company to be offered that exchange.

Whereas if we were in the Club, we could call up the inventory, see what was available, and book it directly. Much simpler and much easier for longer-range planning. The Club also included (until this year) Gold membership in II. So if we wanted to go outside the Club, we could do so, paying only the II exchange fee. Also, the way it worked, being a Diamond member gave us access to almost all of the II inventory without worrying about trade power.

The question remaining was how well the DRI resort network (excluding the affiliates) aligned with our travel interests. Which was pretty good. So it was clear to us that the annual cost of being in the Club was reasonable as compared with our experiences and history working through exchange companies.

We have been pleased with how that aspect of our membership has worked out for us.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

For the Club fee based on the number of points, just check the column "THE Club®" in the 2021 tab of https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...eK7b2lFwXV-U4W9W3hMcAiNbej8gAmOvP5YG/pubhtml#

View attachment 33329

This is helpful but we need translation. For Diamond, what would one week in a 2 BDRM Ocean view in Hawaii cost per year?

 

[dayooper]

Nor do we pay any fees to book an affiliate resort either.

Can you get platinum status as a resale owner or did you have purchase from Diamond directly?

I hope you get to keep your status and booking privileges.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Nor do we pay any fees to book an affiliate resort either.

That's true, but you also need to consider what you are paying in points to book at that affiliate.

We are members in Raintree Vacation Club, which is also a DRI affiliate. So I can see what it costs me in Raintree to book at one of their resorts (say Club Regina Puerto Vallarta) vs. making the same booking using DRI points.

Converting the DRI and Raintree points required to $ based on maintenance fees - I would pay more for a one-bedroom unit booking it through DRI than I would pay for a 2-bedroom unit for the same period booking through my Raintree account.

Just for fun one time, I used a similar comparison to compare what it would cost me to stay at a Great Wolf Lodge using DRI points as compared with just booking it as an ordinary guest. It was significantly more expensive to burn my DRI points as Great Wolf than to just book directly with Great Wolf.

So when I've mucked around, I've concluded that the affiliate resorts don't really offer value. As I've posted elsewhere, the primary reason they exist is so that DRI can put more dots on the map. The only time I would seriously consider staying at an affiliate resort is if I had points that were going to expire at the end of the year and I couldn't roll them over, so I was faced with salvaging whatever value I could before they became worthless.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

This is helpful but we need translation. For Diamond, what would one week in a 2 BDRM Ocean view in Hawaii cost per year?

I assume you want $$.

That's not a straightforward question, because ownership situations can vary. But here is one simple and straightforward option.

We own a deeded week at the Point at Poipu. This is not part of DRI's Hawaii trust (we own some of that as well). That deed allows reservation of any 2-bedroom unit at Point at Poipu for one week. We use it to book ocean front units, the highest level of unit (better than ocean view). For 2021 our fees for that deed are $1812.93, which includes owners association and vacation ownership association operating fees and expenses., owners association reserve account contributions, Hawaii general excise tax, and Hawaii real property tax for our deed. The numbers will be somewhat different for the same unit if I reckon based on what it would cost us for the same unit using our Hawaii trust interest.

Still considerably cheaper than what a comparable ocean front unit would cost at similar ocean front units in Poipu at owner rental sites such as VRBO.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I assume you want $$.

That's not a straightforward question, because ownership situations can vary. But here is one simple and straightforward option.

We own a deeded week at the Point at Poipu. This is not part of DRI's Hawaii trust (we own some of that as well). That deed allows reservation of any 2-bedroom unit at Point at Poipu for one week. We use it to book ocean front units, the highest level of unit (better than ocean view). For 2021 our fees for that deed are $1812.93, which includes owners association and vacation ownership association operating fees and expenses., owners association reserve account contributions, Hawaii general excise tax, and Hawaii real property tax for our deed. The numbers will be somewhat different for the same unit if I reckon based on what it would cost us for the same unit using our Hawaii trust interest.

Still considerably cheaper than what a comparable ocean front unit would cost at similar ocean front units in Poipu at owner rental sites such as VRBO.

Thanks. So you must pay for AC and internet on top of $1812.00?

 

[dioxide45]

The big question I have is, does the Internet and AC fees go back to the HOA or do they go into the resort managers coffers?

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Thanks. So you must pay for AC and internet on top of $1812.00?

No. As an owner I don't have to pay for A/C and as a Gold Club member I don't pay for internet.

We do have to pay the Hawaii transient occupancy tax at checkout - everyone who stays on the island as a visitor pays that. All of the Hawaii islands have been vigilant in cracking down on AirBnb and VRBO hosts who do not have a license. They say it is to protect neighborhoods, but IMHO it's at least equally about collecting the tax. Also, groups such as hotels, timeshares, and registered vacation rental companies have pressured local governments on this issue.

 

[letsgobobby]

Unless the quality is comparable, comparing prices is meaningless.

I'm in a wait and see mode myself. I own HGVC for my home week in Oahu and a few extra points which I don't have a ton of investment in. I don't anticipate this having a big impact on me anytime soon.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Unless the quality is comparable, comparing prices is meaningless.

I think that's silly. In our lives we make comparisons all the time between price and quality. If you go into the meat department in a grocery store and a pound of ground beef was the same price as a 16 ox. angus ribeye, would you say that the price comparison is meaningless because the qualities are not comparable?

If you are making travel arrangements, and you decide that the added cost of a first class ticket is worth the price difference for a coach ticket, you've made a comparison between price and quality. Same thing if you decide that the difference in fare for first class isn't worth the price difference. Same thing when you're car shopping. Same thing when you decide whether or not TUG membership is worth the $15 price.

We make that decision when we decide to acquire one timeshare vs. another. Or when we are looking for a timeshare, and we are presented with options, we decide that some of the offerings are worth the exchange fee, but others are not.

Point being, we all make comparisons between price and quality continually in our lives. I don't believe you are an exception.

*************

Returning to Diamond - The Grand Hyatt is almost next door to Point at Poipu. Grand Hyatt is a classy place. I could stay there in an ocean view, 500 sq ft hotel room with 2 queen beds for one week in our travel period for $5700. But wait, we have people traveling with us - DD, SIL, DG - they would need a room for themselves. So make that $11,400.

Or we can stay at Poipu ~100 yards away, in a 2-bedroom ocean front unit ~1300 sf, with living room and fully equipped kitchen.

Now our condo won't be tricked out like that Hyatt room - no marble in the bathroom. Shower fixtures not as high end. Beds might not be as plush. No daily maid service. Towels not as thick. Plush robes not provided in each closet. Resort doesn't have room service, spa services (but you pay for those anyway). The resort doesn't front directly onto a sandy beach.

But at Poipu we can live together as a 3-generation extended family for a week, cooking meals together, raiding the refrigerator when we want to. No obligation to try to coordinate people to get down to a restaurant at about the same time for meal.

If I had to choose between Point at Poipu and 2 rooms at Grand Hyatt for a week for the same $11,400 price, I would take Point at Poipu. But Poipu only costs me $2000 (including occupancy tax).

So there is a definite price comparison in play, even though the qualties are really not at all comparable.

 

[letsgobobby]

Exactly. So all the posts about DRI possibly being cheaper do not help me at all, because I do not have a way to compare their quality.

I'm just gonna wait and see.

 

[dougp26364]

So if we’re comparing prices, expenses and clubs......

DRI’S THE Club management fee’s, a pure management fee was something like $545 the last year we were owners (2015). The more we owned, the higher the fee went.

With MVC (I know, it’s not HGVC so who cares), we own two 3 bedroom, one 2 bedroom plus 4250 trust points. The management fee to participate in their points program is currently $280. Single night reservations at 13 months, no exchange fees, no lock off fees, and no weeks exchange fees when using II and exchanging between MVC resorts. Polo Towers MF’s were equal to MVC’s Grand Chateau’s MF but, PT’s was putting only $100 towards cash reserves while GC was putting $400 towards cash reserves.

HGVC’s dues are, I believe $195 regardless of how many weeks you own. Members pay an ala carte fee structure so, if you use it, you pay for it. If you don’t, there’s nothing extra to pay. Their membership fee is mandatory. If memory serves me, as a deeded week owner with DRI, I could opt out of THE Club and not have to pay their membership fee. When we left DRI and deeded back our PoloTowers deeds, the MF’s were somewhere between $1,200 and $1,500. At that same time (2015) our HGVC MF’s at HGVC LV Blv was still under $1,000, and that included HGVC’s membership fee. There is no comparison between Polo Towers quality, both in resorts and units, and HGVC LV Blv.

The comparison led us to get rid of DRI while keeping HGVC and expanding our MVC ownership.

DRI had some advantages. Considerably more locations than HGVC and an easier to use internal exchange program. I find HGVC’s program somewhat restrictive. Having to wait 9 months is inconvenient for us. I preferred DRI’s 10 month window. Booking Hawaii with HGVC can be challenging to say the least. Booking deluxe units at DRI’s KBC was very easy. At the time I prefers that DRI exchange with II and not RCI (although that’s apparently changing now). In short, DRI had the better internal exchange program with great locations, but that price tag was horrible. DRI’s quality, while better than average, was still beneath HGVC’s quality.

Our reasons for leaving DRI and keeping HGVC and MVC was purely financial. I loved the program, it was just to expensive considering the quality and we’re we live. We live in the Midwest. If we had lived on the west coast and if we could fly affordably to Hawaii, we very well may have kept DRI and dumped HGVC. As it is, Hawaii is a good 12 to 18 hours of flying with a price tag of $1,200 to fly coach and $3,600 to fly first class. Since we used DRI primarily for Branson and Las Vegas with occasional trips to other drive to locations (Santa Fe, Colorado) or the less expensive flight to Phoenix, DRI just didn’t make sense for us at their price point. HGVC and MVC had us covered for less money and better quality.

So, if we’re going to have a wish list of what we’d like with this acquisition, I want to see HGVC’s management fee structure combined with DRI’s more flexible booking engine. Will that happen? Probably not. But I also don’t anticipate that HGVC will adopt DRI’s horrendous management fee structure. I’ll be happy if they keep both programs reasonably separate with the ability to book across brand lines so long as the cost is reasonable. MVC had an original “joiner fee” around $695 for deeded week owners participation i. The DC points program. I’d be content with something similar out of HGVC with a decent points overlay program (1 HGVC point = x number of DRI points).

I’m not nearly as anxious with HGVC’s management in charge as I would have been with DRI’s management team. The escalation in management/MF’s chased us from DRI several years ago. If DRI had been the management team in charge, I wouldn’t jump off a bridge....... yet, but I’d be looking at exit options just in case.

 

[GT75]

I agree with @dougp26364 assessment. In fact, I added the links of the previous threads on this merger from last year into the first post. I know that I was very concerned at that time. I also don't think that HGV and DRI can be merged into 1 system. In fact, right now HGV has two systems, HGVC & bHC and DRI has several itself. Honestly, right now I am happy with the resorts that we are going to each year in HGVC. So, I really don't need anything to change. I wouldn't mind adding a little variety to my yearly travel plans but I don't want changes affecting my base ownership.

HGVC’s dues are, I believe $195 regardless of how many weeks you own.

$186 for 2021

Booking Hawaii with HGVC can be challenging to say the least.

This isn't completely true. The BI is very easy to book. The challenge, IMO, is booking Lagoon Tower (because of cheap points) on Oahu can be challenging. The other resorts on Oahu are much easier.

 

[Magus]

HGV in Hawaii I have not noticed having issues finding availability. Finding availability for the exact size, resort/island and dates you want if you are very specific may be an issue from time to time, but if you are flexible there is nearly always availability from what I've seen (and also just looking at June and early December right now for availability as two random months I picked). Probably depends on the size of family/friends going I'd imagine. We're usually fairly flexible on dates, sizes (can always book 2-3 studios/1 bedrooms if no 2-3 BD available), etc.

HGV club dues are either $186 (normal) regardless of how many units you own OR if you own the BHC ones you can pay $313 and pay no club booking fees at all, which for me is a no brainer since I rarely use home week (which has no fee), have a lot of points and frequently gift nights to family/friends (and just pay the $59 guest certificate fee, I've already made 7 club reservations this year and probably 8+ more to go). My EOY District MF will basically be free with as many club bookings I'll be making most years since I now have a lot of points.