Hilton Grand Vacations strikes deal to acquire Diamond Resorts

[CalGalTraveler]

It varies from resort to resort. The HOA at each resort sets that resorts policies, which apply to all owners. If you are not part of the Diamond Club, you pay the fee. If you are part of the Diamond club, you don't reserve at the resort. The Club is the entity that reserves the unit. The Club then covers the resort charges, depending on what your status is in the Club.

When we stay in Hawaii, we are gold members, so the fees we pay are the Hawaii taxes. As gold members we don't pay the internet fee. We also don't pay extra for A/C - I think the resort is policy is charge that fee only to non-owners.

Other resorts might have other fees. For example if a resort is inside some type of resort development that charges resort fees to occupants and residents, those will get passed on in some fashion determined by the HOA at the resort.

Actually, the primary perks from higher tiers more often involve items such as the number of guest certificates allowed per year, rates provided when converting points to services, ability to reserve specific rooms, costs to do upgrades in unit size or location. Things such as that - not quite so much as on-site charges.

This sounds really complicated. An AC and Internet fee? Argggh If the MF were low I could understand but this seems to be a money grab.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

This sounds really complicated. An AC and Internet fee? Argggh If the MF were low I could understand but this seems to be a money grab.

When you consider the astronomic electricity rates in Hawaii, I have little problem with imposing an A/C fee. Let those who want it pay for it. IMHO, the resort should apply it to everyone, and reduce the annual fees accordingly.

The internet fee has been matter of some discussion, with quite a few people thinking that is should be provided to everyone free of charge. So far the HOA has elected to not include it in the annual dues.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

When you consider the astronomic electricity rates in Hawaii, I have little problem with imposing an A/C fee. Let those who want it pay for it. IMHO, the resort should apply it to everyone, and reduce the annual fees accordingly.

The internet fee has been matter of some discussion, with quite a few people thinking that is should be provided to everyone free of charge. So far the HOA has elected to not include it in the annual dues.

What are the MF in Hawaii for Diamond? We own Westin ($2500 - 2700) no fees. Hilton Hawaiian Village in Waikiki is about $1800 and no AC or Internet fees.

 

[DannyTS]

I used to own HGVC but I sold it and bought RCI points. It suits us better in terms of value and we already pay a good amount to Vistana in MF. This takeover concerns me though. Potentially this can be a positive for RCI if they bring back Embarc but I feel the odds are skewed towards DRI/HGVC using even more their internal trading system, especially since DRI was going that way anyways. Why would they feed the competition, Marriott or Wyndham, when they may benefit more to from keeping a bigger piece of the pie for themselves? If RCI loses the HGVC inventory (even partially) it would be a huge blow especially since the fewer remaining nice resorts will be even harder to get.

 

[ocdb8r]

When you consider the astronomic electricity rates in Hawaii, I have little problem with imposing an A/C fee. Let those who want it pay for it. IMHO, the resort should apply it to everyone, and reduce the annual fees accordingly.

The problem is that for high humidity climates, this is a BAD idea. Many resorts have found that keeping the A/C always running saves more than the cost in upkeep and mold abatement. the Westin St. John recent switched to a system where you cannot completely turn "off" the A/C for this reason.

 

[Nocdavis]

I don't see that as targeting the AirBnB/VRBO crowd. That community is not a viable market for timeshares of any type. My kids are in that crowd. They love our timeshares, but they have less than zero interest in ever owning one themselves because AirBnB/VRBO fit their lives much better. (Actually, had those platforms existed in 1999 I don't think we would have got involved with timeshares ourselves.)

Where I think this might position is to the people who are motivated on the sales floor to consider a timeshare, but won't bite on the main product due to price. This could fit into that downsell market.

But the main place this would work is in the sales room at the "Hampton Vacation Club" resorts themselves. That's going to be a different crowd than the people at the HGV resorts. It's also the same sales program that Diamond has been running at those resorts anyway, with decent success.

In fact Diamond itself has been using this two tier strategy for quite a few years. The Hawaii collection was created and is marketed to prospects as the upscale collection, and is offered at a higher price point.

That's fair - and we used the snot out of AirBNB and VRBO but it's more expensive for us.....I get 3 weeks out of my points for an average price per night of $160ish. When I wanted to go, mostly high seasons, we could rarely get what we were looking for under $250 through AirBNB and VRBO. Also quality varies greatly. I see your point and it's valid but I still think there is a place for TS. Retail not so much....resale....absolutely.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

The problem is that for high humidity climates, this is a BAD idea. Many resorts have found that keeping the A/C always running saves more than the cost in upkeep and mold abatement. the Westin St. John recent switched to a system where you cannot completely turn "off" the A/C for this reason.

Depends on the architecture and construction. Building have existed for years in Hawaii without A/C. There are lots of resorts in Hawaii that do not have A/C.

Hawaii is also not as humid as the Caribbean. Most of the time the trade winds are blowing from the northeast and the weather is quite pleasant. The leeward sides of the island, such as Poipu, are actually desert climates, complete with cactus. Average annual precipitation in Poipu is ~ 25-30 cm.

 

[dsmrp]

Wow, I only saw this thread last night. I'm hopeful there will be more resorts to internal exchange into, and price for that option will be minimal for HGVC owners. I only own Hawaii affiliate, with higher MF, so I'm not inclined to use the pts for other places, except perhaps internationally in Europe etc...

We bought our Bay club HGVC affiliate and Hyatt units to primarily use. Have 2 Vistana which are traders. So only "half worried" LOL of what's to come.

Interesting times ahead with more consolidation of multi resort TS systems.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

I heard that even the resorts they own, they don't own all the units in the resort. Therefore, even though there are 95 resorts in the Diamond Resort System, there are somewhat less units owned.

AVAILABILITY to reserve what a member doesn't own to me is the key issue in all of this.

The quality standard and the number of points assigned to the Diamond Resorts is critical. The Diamond Properties are substandard compared to HGVC resorts then those resorts shouldn't be part of the HGVC exchange system until they are upgraded. The ones that are HGVC quality or close enough in quality that they can be readily upgraded could be assigned HGVC points to be used in the HGVC reservation system. Depending on how many members and the number of points that each of those new members have the availabilty at some of the HGVC could become very tight.

This is true at a few locations. More what you will see is two collections sharing units at the same resort.....such as both the Hawaii Collection and the US Collection owning units in the same resort. The only resort I can think of where Diamond owns units but doesn't own (manage) the resort is the London Bridge Resort but there may be another one or two.

My worries are that HGVC will enforce their rules of business on Diamond owners or worse, require a Diamond Platinum owner to purchase HGVC points to be included in the HGVC Club. I'm sorry, but in many ways, Diamond does things better than HGVC (no charge for internal reservations, can make a reservation from 2 to 84 days in length, no 30 day window to make reservations of than 7 night stays, no home resort to worry about (the whole US Collection with 55 resorts is my home resort), no paying to save points to the next year, etc....). As a Platinum owner with Diamond (50,000 points) there is no way I would ever go back to paying for reservations again and I would lose my ability to book a weekend (HGVC requires 3 nights minimum) as I often due because I still work. Those were the main reasons I converted my fixed and floating weeks 14 years ago to Diamond. Of course, if we still had Stephen Cloobeck in charge we wouldn't be in this mess we are in today.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

So am I a HGVC owner now? I bought my DRI TS for $1. I am hoping that HGVC has a better deedback program.

Yes, Transitions does suck at $1,000 per contract to deedback. From what I've been reading HGVC doesn't have a formal deedback program but units can be deeded back. HGVC seems more interested in helping you resale your unit than taking it back.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

My guess is that there is no free lunch in life, and in particular in the time share world. HGVC will want a pound of flesh somewhere along the line for access to any additional resorts from the DRI collection. I had to come to peace with the offerings that HGVC has to date. Any access to Kannapali or other top end DRI resorts would be a bonus, but I am not holding my breath.

As a long time Diamond owner, I truly couldn't care less about ever having the ability to exchange into a HGVC property. I care more about keeping the Diamond rules for exchanges in place for Diamond members.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

In conclusion I agree that the devil will be in the details, but I actually believe Hilton when it says it is trying to make the Club better for us.

My greatest fear is does this "us" include current Diamond owners.

 

[ocdb8r]

As a long time Diamond owner, I truly couldn't care less about ever having the ability to exchange into a HGVC property. I care more about keeping the Diamond rules for exchanges in place for Diamond members.

Meaning you just want to be sure you maintain internal access to DRI resorts or is there something special about Diamond rules for exchanges that is unique/advantageous?

 

[Fried_shrimp]

HGVC only charges those fees to exchangers. No resort fee is paid if you book through HGVC directly Does DRI only charge fees to exchangers and NOT to internal bookings?

Perhaps that is why as an exchanger I was less than impressed with DRI. Does not inspire someone who who stays via an exchange to want to take a tour and purchase. Their experience is already tainted.

Anyone checking in on a Diamond reservation to a Diamond managed property does not pay daily usage fees. Anyone checking into a Diamond resort with a reservation from anyone else (RCI/II/Booking.com/etc....) pays the fees, even if they are a Diamond owner (such as a Diamond owner booking a Diamond resort via II).

 

[Fried_shrimp]

Meaning you just want to be sure you maintain internal access to DRI resorts or is there something special about Diamond rules for exchanges that is unique/advantageous?

With Diamond, you don't pay to exchange internally in the network. You can book a reservation as short as 2 nights (great for a weekend getaway). You don't pay to save points to the next year. Things like that. And actually there are several Diamond resorts that I love visiting year after year. Bent Creek (Gatlinburg), The Cove (Ormond Beach, FL), and Powhatan Plantation (Williamsburg). My retirement plans that will start in 21 months were centered around these 3 resorts and it doesn't matter to me that they aren't as luxurious as an HGVC resort. They feel more like home away from home which is what I prefer along with the location. Not trying to be snotty or anything, I just don't really care about the spas, 18 swimming pools, cabana girls in bikinis, etc.... type of timesharing. As long as it's clean and comfortable without extra fees I'm happy as a clam.

 

[escanoe]

An AC and Internet fee? Argggh If the MF were low I could understand but this seems to be a money grab.

For those of us not enlightened, is AC short for air conditioning or does AC mean electricity (alternating current). If it is air conditioner is there like a fee to turn it on if you want it? New one on me.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

For those of us not enlightened, is AC short for air conditioning or does AC mean electricity (alternating current). If it is air conditioner is there like a fee to turn it on if you want it? New one on me.

Yes "AC" is air conditioning - also abbreviated as A/C. In contrast, "DC" is a comic book company, but that only rarely occurs in connection with timesharing; .

And yes, where there is a fee charged and you have a choice, you pay if you use. Often it's a question of whether or not you want to use A/C. If you say yes you pay a flat rate charge.

 

[Talent312]

I wonder if this will be accretive for HGVC shareholders?
In the S-T, I don't see how. It dilutes the value of HGVC shares.
Perhaps the cost is a defensive move to ward off would be suitors.
Would anyone still want HGVC now that its so burdened with this?
.

 

[brp]

With Diamond, you don't pay to exchange internally in the network. You can book a reservation as short as 2 nights (great for a weekend getaway). You don't pay to save points to the next year. Things like that.

HGVC is not quite as good in this regard. We also don't have fees to exchange internally although, except in some special cases, there are booking fees for any reservation, so maybe that could be considered an exchange fee. Our minimum is 3 nights (again, except in special cases), and we do have a saving fee. I can see why you would prefer the Diamond rules in this regard.

Cheers.

 

[tschwa2]

On the other hand I think club fees are much higher annually vs the annual membership fee for HGVC.
What would the club fees be for 10,000; 20,000 and 30,000 points vs the annual membership for 1, 2, or 3 owned weeks?

 

[nuwermj]

I wonder if this will be accretive for HGVC shareholders?
In the S-T, I don't see how. It dilutes the value of HGVC shares.
Perhaps the cost is a defensive move to ward off would be suitors.
Would anyone still want HGVC now that its so burdened with this?
.

I'm wondering the same. HVC is buying $2.5 billion in debt. They say there's enough cash to pay it off quickly, but who is going to believe that?

 

[youppi]

The list of all resorts owned by DRI are probably all those resorts where you can rent from DRI https://www.diamondresortsandhotels.com/Resorts

 

[youppi]

On the other hand I think club fees are much higher annually vs the annual membership fee for HGVC.
What would the club fees be for 10,000; 20,000 and 30,000 points vs the annual membership for 1, 2, or 3 owned weeks?

For the Club fee based on the number of points, just check the column "THE Club®" in the 2021 tab of https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...eK7b2lFwXV-U4W9W3hMcAiNbej8gAmOvP5YG/pubhtml#

 

[escanoe]

I wonder if this will be accretive for HGVC shareholders?
In the S-T, I don't see how. It dilutes the value of HGVC shares.
Perhaps the cost is a defensive move to ward off would be suitors.
Would anyone still want HGVC now that its so burdened with this?
.

I saw yesterday where a law firm was on that right off the bat. Someone must have tipped them off.

Hilton Merger Investigation: Halper Sadeh LLP Announces Investigation Into Whether the Merger of Hilton Grand Vacations Inc. Is Fair to Shareholders; Investors Are Encouraged to Contact the Firm – HGV

Halper Sadeh LLP, a global investor rights law firm, is investigating whether the merger of Hilton Grand Vacations Inc. (NYSE: HGV) and Diamond Resorts Inter...

www.businesswire.com

Hilton Merger Investigation: Halper Sadeh LLP Announces Investigation Into Whether the Merger of Hilton Grand Vacations Inc. Is Fair to Shareholders; Investors Are Encouraged to Contact the Firm – HGV

 

[geist1223]

We do not pay any fees to Book or stay at any DRI Owned/Managed Resort.