Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

[callwill]

TUG,

This is my first post. I have a problem and I hope someone can guide me in the right direction.

My parents died about 6 and 9 years ago, respectively. They had no will or estate. I am their only child.

They owned a timeshare; bought in 1990; fully paid for; only annual maintenance fees remained which they paid every year.

The timeshare contract and deed has only their names and signatures. Not mine. This is important.

Since 2014, I committed an original sin: I have been paying the timeshare fee only because I was not sure what to do. I saw a bill, I paid a bill, simple as that. In the back of my mind, I thought that if I ever wanted to visit the timeshare, I should at least keep it out of delinquency.

This year, I have come to the conclusion that I will never visit this timeshare.

So, two months ago, I consulted an attorney to look at the timeshare deed and contract.

His conclusion was that my name is not on any timeshare contract or deed. I do not own the timeshare, and I did not inherit the timeshare from my parents.

Immediately following my meeting with the attorney, I sent a letter to the timeshare company, with death certificates, requesting a surrender. I stated specifically that I am not the owner of the timeshare, regardless of the fact that I rather stupidly paid the annual dues for 6 years. I also stated specifically that I have never visited the timeshare property myself. I may have paid the fees, but no, I have never used it.

Today, two months later, I have received a letter from the timeshare saying that the Board has not approved my request. That is literally all it says:

"Unfortunately the Board has not approved your request."

No details.

I don't understand. The owners of the timeshare are dead. I don't own the timeshare. So what if I paid them money to give me time to think. Although I paid the fees, I have never used the timeshare myself, and I put that in the letter. My mistake for giving them free money for 6 years.


Can anyone offer any advice here? I kept this first post short, and I will gladly add any details to this post to help your answers.

If the next step is for the timeshare company to foreclose on the timeshare, what happens when a company tries to foreclose on deceased owners?

Is there any way that this can impact my credit? Again, the timeshare deed and contact was signed by my parents in 1990, not me. I was still in college in 1990.




Thanks,
Fred

You will find some helpful information reading the posts here...

What happens if you just stop paying maintenance fees?

We are among the people who were duped into buying a timeshare in Las Vegas and greatly regret it at this point. We own it free and clear, and it seems like getting rid of it will actually cost us money. Just wondering what happens if we just stop paying the maintenance fees. We are semi-retired...

tugbbs.com

On top of that, Do you live in the same state where the timeshare is located?
Lastly, i would go and use the week at least once before you ditch it...

 

[rickandcindy23]

Jeepers, I cannot believe how many "lawyers" are here on TUG to offer advice to someone that is stuck with a timeshare he didn't buy. Don't pay the fees, tell the resort you do not want it and will no longer pay the fees. They will not bother to come after you.

We own at a timeshare in Colorado, I am on the board, and believe me, it's expensive to take back a week through foreclosure. I would tell them to save the money and you will cooperate to get them to take it back without any recourse to you. They absolutely cannot come after you. It's ridiculous.

 

[vacationtime1]

Jeepers, I cannot believe how many "lawyers" are here on TUG to offer advice to someone that is stuck with a timeshare he didn't buy. Don't pay the fees, tell the resort you do not want it and will no longer pay the fees. They will not bother to come after you.

We own at a timeshare in Colorado, I am on the board, and believe me, it's expensive to take back a week through foreclosure. I would tell them to save the money and you will cooperate to get them to take it back without any recourse to you. They absolutely cannot come after you. It's ridiculous.

Many of the "lawyers" here are really lawyers.

 

[47vampire]

My sister died 10 years ago and we jointly owned 2 timeshares in SC but we lived in another state. The timeshares were in Horry County/Myrtle Beach. I finally decided to do a deed back on one of the properties this year. My sister had a will and probate had already closed on her estate. In our state(Virginia) they didn't view timeshares as having any value and even though we discussed them, they advised us against doing anything with them in closing the estate. SC made me reopen the estate in VA, get certain paperwork completed and file it to get the deeds only in my name so that I could give one back to the timeshare company. The timeshare company required me to do this. It was not expensive, did not require a lawyer but was time consuming.

I think Dave's advise is spot on, I not pay any more fees and let them foreclose. It will take a while but eventually it will be done.

 

[BocaBoy]

The way I see it is that the laws of dying intestate passed the property to the OP (he never disclaimed it) and OLP actually accepted it by paying the fees for 6 years. The OP screwed up and needs to acknowledge it. The fact that he is not yet listed on the deed is also his fault....he is the one responsible for that action as he already is the owner. The OP is the "bad guy" here, not the timeshare resort.

Some of the practical advice here is good if the goal is to get out of paying a rightful obligation, but please do not confuse which party is the "bad guy".

 

[callwill]

"the way i see it"...please cite or post links to those laws? The estate owns the property and if there is no money from the estate left to pay for it, the HOA will need to move to take back ownership. The OP has actually done them a favor by continuing to pay them. The OP is far from being the "bad guy", there is no bad guy. There is what the law says. There is nothing that conveys ownership here, that is what deed and title do.

 

[marijalas]

TUG,

This is my first post. I have a problem and I hope someone can guide me in the right direction.

My parents died about 6 and 9 years ago, respectively. They had no will or estate. I am their only child.

They owned a timeshare; bought in 1990; fully paid for; only annual maintenance fees remained which they paid every year.

The timeshare contract and deed has only their names and signatures. Not mine. This is important.

Since 2014, I committed an original sin: I have been paying the timeshare fee only because I was not sure what to do. I saw a bill, I paid a bill, simple as that. In the back of my mind, I thought that if I ever wanted to visit the timeshare, I should at least keep it out of delinquency.

This year, I have come to the conclusion that I will never visit this timeshare.

So, two months ago, I consulted an attorney to look at the timeshare deed and contract.

His conclusion was that my name is not on any timeshare contract or deed. I do not own the timeshare, and I did not inherit the timeshare from my parents.

Immediately following my meeting with the attorney, I sent a letter to the timeshare company, with death certificates, requesting a surrender. I stated specifically that I am not the owner of the timeshare, regardless of the fact that I rather stupidly paid the annual dues for 6 years. I also stated specifically that I have never visited the timeshare property myself. I may have paid the fees, but no, I have never used it.

Today, two months later, I have received a letter from the timeshare saying that the Board has not approved my request. That is literally all it says:

"Unfortunately the Board has not approved your request."

No details.

I don't understand. The owners of the timeshare are dead. I don't own the timeshare. So what if I paid them money to give me time to think. Although I paid the fees, I have never used the timeshare myself, and I put that in the letter. My mistake for giving them free money for 6 years.


Can anyone offer any advice here? I kept this first post short, and I will gladly add any details to this post to help your answers.

If the next step is for the timeshare company to foreclose on the timeshare, what happens when a company tries to foreclose on deceased owners?

Is there any way that this can impact my credit? Again, the timeshare deed and contact was signed by my parents in 1990, not me. I was still in college in 1990.




Thanks,
Fred

We own in Florida & our attorney said each state has different laws regarding this. I called Vistanta and they do have a buy back, but since we are still alive they can't tell us until after we die

 

[rickandcindy23]

Many of the "lawyers" here are really lawyers.

Lawyers are the ones advertising on TV that if you pay them, they will get you out of your timeshare. I think some of these guys hang out on TUG and make sure people get scared enough to turn to these companies for help. Basically, all they do for you with the $4-5K you pay is they nag the resort to let them give the week back and harass the management company. That is what they do for the money. I could do that myself. I see no reason to hire a law firm to do that for me.

 

[elaine]

Again, The timeshare/hoa has to foreclose via judicial proceeding to get the deed back. No good or bad guy. TS cannot accept deed back from deceased persons. And son likely cannot title into his name unless it goes thru probate. There are low cost law firms that do timeshare probate in sc. this is separate from probate in whatever state your parents lived. I’ve never heard of a timeshare passing intestate to an heir. You might call a firm specializing in this for a consult of your options. I bet it’d cost less than $300 for a consult. They’ll likely tell you you need to open a probate in SC and they can tell you their fee or to let the TS foreclose. The consult might even be even be free. That’s what I’d do. Ps-A good lawyer knows when to give advice and when to consult someone else who has specific expertise.

 

[vacationtime1]

Lawyers are the ones advertising on TV that if you pay them, they will get you out of your timeshare. I think some of these guys hang out on TUG and make sure people get scared enough to turn to these companies for help. Basically, all they do for you with the $4-5K you pay is they nag the resort to let them give the week back and harass the management company. That is what they do for the money. I could do that myself. I see no reason to hire a law firm to do that for me.

I absolutely agree with you on that. With very few exceptions, those lawyers are on a par with exit companies.

 

[LannyPC]

Basically, all they do for you with the $4-5K you pay is they nag the resort to let them give the week back and harass the management company. That is what they do for the money. I could do that myself. I see no reason to hire a law firm to do that for me.

Bingo! Or, they do the Power of Attorney (POA) trick and get the owner to sign over POA so that these firms can simply list the TSs on E-Bay for $1.

 

[qwerty]

The way I see it is that the laws of dying intestate passed the property to the OP (he never disclaimed it) and OLP actually accepted it by paying the fees for 6 years. The OP screwed up and needs to acknowledge it. The fact that he is not yet listed on the deed is also his fault....he is the one responsible for that action as he already is the owner. The OP is the "bad guy" here, not the timeshare resort.

Some of the practical advice here is good if the goal is to get out of paying a rightful obligation, but please do not confuse which party is the "bad guy".

Why is OP a "bad guy"?
Even if paying the annual M/F and actually using the resort, this does not obligate OP in any manner.
As pointed out by many on this forum, just "deeding back" the timeshare doesn't seem feasible.
As OP is not the deeded owner, the resort cannot list that debt on his credit.
I'm not a lawyer but don't need to be one to reply to a post on this forum.
I hope that BocaBoy will change his opinion that [OP is the "bad guy"].

 

[bogey21]

The way I see it is that the laws of dying intestate passed the property to the OP (he never disclaimed it) and OLP actually accepted it by paying the fees for 6 years. The OP screwed up and needs to acknowledge it. The fact that he is not yet listed on the deed is also his fault....he is the one responsible for that action as he already is the owner.

This makes sense to me but I suspect governing law varies from State to State...

George

 

[Billikan]

I have read most of the comments here on this topic. The issue here is that when your father passed he did have an estate. The simple fact that he owned real estate (the deeded timeshare) means he had an estate. This estate would be in SC probably as an ancillary probate if he was not a resident of SC at the time of his death. You mention that he did not have a will, however every state has rules of intestate (where someone did not make their own will) that direct the order of distribution of any assets in an estate. In this case, if you are the only child of an intestate decedent with no other relatives; you are likely the only intestate heir. As an heir you are not required to take an inheritance such as this timeshare if you properly disclaim by reference to the disclaimer statue relevant to this situation. However you are required to properly disclaim an interest within 9 months. Please see SC statute 62-2-801 (below for reference). If you are the only heir under the rules of intestate in the state where your father died, and you did not formally and properly disclaim, you are the presumptive owner of this deeded interest by operation of law. This is not to say that you may not have other means of resolution (clouded title action in court), but this does mean that you have both a claim to ownership and that the HOA has a reasonable claim to pursue you as owner. Furthermore, your performance in paying dues for so long would be evidence at such a hearing that you intended to be the owner of the property. The argument for the HOA would be; why would someone who was not an owner and did not intend to be an owner pay for something that was not theirs? Again, you may still have options, but you actions of paying will be viewed as to your intent to be viewed as owner in conjunction with you being the only intestate heir who did not properly and timely disclaim. This may be a difficult argument to overcome given these facts.


South Carolina Disclaimer of Interest
Under the South Carolina statutes, the beneficiary of an interest in property may renounce the gift, either in part or in full (S.C. Code Ann. 62-2-801). Note that the option to disclaim is only available to beneficiaries who have not acted in any way to indicate acceptance or ownership of the interest (S.C. Code Ann. 62-2-801 (c) (5))

The disclaimer must be in writing and include a description of the interest, a declaration of intent to disclaim all or a defined portion of the interest, and be signed by the disclaimant (S.C. Code Ann. 62-2-801 (c) (3)).

Deliver the disclaimer within nine months of the transfer (e.g., the death of the creator of the interest) to the transferor, his or her fiduciary, the person holding title or possession of the property, or to the court that would have jurisdiction (S.C. Code Ann. 62-2-801 (c) (3) (iv)). In the case of real property, record a copy of the disclaimer in the office of the clerk of courts or the registrar of the county in which the real estate is located.

A disclaimer is irrevocable and binding for the disclaiming party and his or her creditors, so be sure to consult an attorney when in doubt about the drawbacks and benefits of disclaiming inherited property. If the disclaimed interest arises out of jointly-owned property, seek legal advice as well.

 

[callwill]

I have read most of the comments here on this topic. The issue here is that when your father passed he did have an estate. The simple fact that he owned real estate (the deeded timeshare) means he had an estate. This estate would be in SC probably as an ancillary probate if he was not a resident of SC at the time of his death. You mention that he did not have a will, however every state has rules of intestate (where someone did not make their own will) that direct the order of distribution of any assets in an estate. In this case, if you are the only child of an intestate decedent with no other relatives; you are likely the only intestate heir. As an heir you are not required to take an inheritance such as this timeshare if you properly disclaim by reference to the disclaimer statue relevant to this situation. However you are required to properly disclaim an interest within 9 months. Please see SC statute 62-2-801 (below for reference). If you are the only heir under the rules of intestate in the state where your father died, and you did not formally and properly disclaim, you are the presumptive owner of this deeded interest by operation of law. This is not to say that you may not have other means of resolution (clouded title action in court), but this does mean that you have both a claim to ownership and that the HOA has a reasonable claim to pursue you as owner. Furthermore, your performance in paying dues for so long would be evidence at such a hearing that you intended to be the owner of the property. The argument for the HOA would be; why would someone who was not an owner and did not intend to be an owner pay for something that was not theirs? Again, you may still have options, but you actions of paying will be viewed as to your intent to be viewed as owner in conjunction with you being the only intestate heir who did not properly and timely disclaim. This may be a difficult argument to overcome given these facts.


South Carolina Disclaimer of Interest
Under the South Carolina statutes, the beneficiary of an interest in property may renounce the gift, either in part or in full (S.C. Code Ann. 62-2-801). Note that the option to disclaim is only available to beneficiaries who have not acted in any way to indicate acceptance or ownership of the interest (S.C. Code Ann. 62-2-801 (c) (5))

The disclaimer must be in writing and include a description of the interest, a declaration of intent to disclaim all or a defined portion of the interest, and be signed by the disclaimant (S.C. Code Ann. 62-2-801 (c) (3)).

Deliver the disclaimer within nine months of the transfer (e.g., the death of the creator of the interest) to the transferor, his or her fiduciary, the person holding title or possession of the property, or to the court that would have jurisdiction (S.C. Code Ann. 62-2-801 (c) (3) (iv)). In the case of real property, record a copy of the disclaimer in the office of the clerk of courts or the registrar of the county in which the real estate is located.

A disclaimer is irrevocable and binding for the disclaiming party and his or her creditors, so be sure to consult an attorney when in doubt about the drawbacks and benefits of disclaiming inherited property. If the disclaimed interest arises out of jointly-owned property, seek legal advice as well.

Well, there was "nothing else" in in the "estate to require probate as the OP was the owner of the house before the parents passed and was the named beneficiary on all financial accounts. Probate was recently filed for, i think the OP will be free and clear when probate finishes its process.

 

[mtwingcpa]

Assume I am a very old person with a very small pension that expires on my death. I live in NC. My wife is deceased but I have one living son. I have sold all of my valuable belongings except my old house and old, worn out furniture (but not old enough to be antiques). The house does sit on a valuable piece of real estate ($250,000). I owe $20,000 to the credit card company. I now have a heart attack and die immediately.

If I understand correctly, the house and land goes immediately to my son (since I live in NC). That means that my estate would only be my furniture (in Wisconsin furniture is not real estate, I don't know about NC) and my old clothes. So my estate has $20,000 in debts and essentially worthless assets.

Question: Is the credit card company stuck with an noncollectable $20,000?

I'm not an attorney, and your mileage may vary...

But my understanding of this situation is that even though the title to the decedent's real estate is deemed to vest immediately* in the designated heir (in states that follow that regime), the property is nevertheless still subject to probate administration. So if no probate is filed, and therefore no debts of the estate have been discharged, I would presume the heir would be subject to so-called "transferee liability" for the debts of the estate, to the extent of the value of assets received.

So I'd guess the credit card company in your example would have a reasonably easy claim to make against your son (or, perhaps more correctly, they would have a claim against the property he received).

This, by the way, is one of the risks of probate avoidance. The heirs receiving property must understand that they must make sure the debts of the estate are paid or suffer the potential consequences.

*One consequence of this immediate vesting is that any income derived by the property ("rent") belongs to the designated heir, and NOT the estate, even though the property might be temporarily subject to probate administration.

 

[CharlesS]

South Carolina Disclaimer of Interest
Under the South Carolina statutes, the beneficiary of an interest in property may renounce the gift, either in part or in full (S.C. Code Ann. 62-2-801). Note that the option to disclaim is only available to beneficiaries who have not acted in any way to indicate acceptance or ownership of the interest (S.C. Code Ann. 62-2-801 (c) (5))

Thank you very much for using the phrase "Disclaimer of Interest". It made a search of Wisconsin Statutes very easy. Wisconsin does indeed have the same 9-month period for disclaiming. Now that I know that I can instruct my children of this fact and/or place the information in my will. Additionally, Wisconsin statutes also prevent disclaiming if my heirs used the timeshare after my death! I would assume using the timeshare would be a "benefit" (Wisconsin SS 854.13(11g)(c)) of the property. The statute is quoted below.

854.13(11g)   Bar. Bars to a person's right to disclaim property include, but are not limited to, any of the following:
(a) The person's assignment, conveyance, encumbrance, pledge, or transfer of the property or a contract for the assignment, conveyance, encumbrance, pledge, or transfer of the property.
(b) The person's written waiver of the right to disclaim.
(c) The person's acceptance of the property or benefit of the property.

Charles

 

[callwill]

good thing the OP has not used it as i suggested!

 

[DannyTS]

The way I see it is that the laws of dying intestate passed the property to the OP (he never disclaimed it) and OLP actually accepted it by paying the fees for 6 years. The OP screwed up and needs to acknowledge it. The fact that he is not yet listed on the deed is also his fault....he is the one responsible for that action as he already is the owner. The OP is the "bad guy" here, not the timeshare resort.

Some of the practical advice here is good if the goal is to get out of paying a rightful obligation, but please do not confuse which party is the "bad guy".

Say this was a condo. If somebody paid the maintenance fees for 6 years, would that condo become his property? I do not see the link between the two.

 

[Billikan]

good thing the OP has not used it as i suggested!

Please read the relevant statute carefully. SC and most state disclaimer statutes say something like "the option to disclaim is only available to beneficiaries who have not acted in any way to indicate acceptance or ownership of the interest". Usage is one factor; however other factors like property maintenance, payment of taxes, payment of HOA fees, etc. are indications of "ownership of the interest". Why would someone pay for something they did not own nor intend to own for several years. One could claim payment on behalf of another as a gift, but in the case of a known decedent as owner; it is difficult to claim a gift. Furthermore, the law on completed gifts does not recognize gifts to a decedent. Not using the property is certainly one factor, but it will not in and of itself be determinative on the facts provided by the OP.

 

[Billikan]

Thank you very much for using the phrase "Disclaimer of Interest". It made a search of Wisconsin Statutes very easy. Wisconsin does indeed have the same 9-month period for disclaiming. Now that I know that I can instruct my children of this fact and/or place the information in my will. Additionally, Wisconsin statutes also prevent disclaiming if my heirs used the timeshare after my death! I would assume using the timeshare would be a "benefit" (Wisconsin SS 854.13(11g)(c)) of the property. The statute is quoted below.

854.13(11g)   Bar. Bars to a person's right to disclaim property include, but are not limited to, any of the following:
(a) The person's assignment, conveyance, encumbrance, pledge, or transfer of the property or a contract for the assignment, conveyance, encumbrance, pledge, or transfer of the property.
(b) The person's written waiver of the right to disclaim.
(c) The person's acceptance of the property or benefit of the property.

Charles

Be sure you are reviewing the relevant statute. The statute will be for the state in which the deeded interest is located. This may be WI if the timeshare is in WI. Just note that it is not the state of domicile of the decedent, it is the location for the deeded real estate. Almost every state has a similar statue on disclaimer with minor nuances to take make note of. This is many times not recognized by a potential beneficiary and is an issue that can be avoided.

 

[Billikan]

Say this was a condo. If somebody paid the maintenance fees for 6 years, would that condo become his property? I do not see the link between the two.

Your comment is correct if the owner is still living. Payment on behalf of another would be a completed gift to the owner. The facts provided by the OP here indicate the owner is deceased and the OP is the only intestate heir. Because probate was not opened and notice to creditors was not provided, it is very likely that due to the expiration of time and the actions of the OP in payment of property expense for multiple years this will complicate their argument that they are not the heir by operation of law.

 

[callwill]

Your comment is correct if the owner is still living. Payment on behalf of another would be a completed gift to the owner. The facts provided by the OP here indicate the owner is deceased and the OP is the only intestate heir. Because probate was not opened and notice to creditors was not provided, it is very likely that due to the expiration of time and the actions of the OP in payment of property expense for multiple years this will complicate their argument that they are not the heir by operation of law.

If the OP cannot dump the place via probate and disclaimer of interest and ie as the OP states, they have no interest in keeping or visiting, then the next step would be to explore a sale here on TUG. Failing that, it would then be time to explore the laws regarding non payment of any/all fees and forcing the resort/hoa to foreclose.
It may actually be in the OPs interest to not end up on the deed as would be needed to resell, It might be best to move right to non payment and foreclosure.

 

[Billikan]

If the OP cannot dump the place via probate and disclaimer of interest and ie as the OP states, they have no interest in keeping or visiting, then the next step would be to explore a sale here on TUG. Failing that, it would then be time to explore the laws regarding non payment of any/all fees and forcing the resort/hoa to foreclose.

Agreed. The time and expense to fight this is likely not worth the value of the timeshare for someone who has no intention of utilizing it. A legal "sale" or gift of the property to a willing recipient is the best course.

 

[callwill]

Agreed. The time and expense to fight this is likely not worth the value of the timeshare for someone who has no intention of utilizing it. A legal "sale" or gift of the property to a willing recipient is the best course.

I revised/edited after your "like" to include...
It may actually be in the OPs interest to not end up on the deed as would be needed to resell, It might be best to move right to non payment and foreclosure.