Updated Privileges Brochure

[Richelle]

Geez. All I can add is that, Wyndham VIPs are a "touchy bunch." ... and highly defensive for no apparent reason.

Not defensive. Annoyed would be more accurate. Annoyed that someone is arrogant enough to assume they know what's best for some stranger on the internet. Annoyed that someone is arrogant enough to think they know what's best for their money, even though they didn't earn. Annoyed that they are arrogant enough to think people want advice on what to do with their money, even though they never asked for it.

I really don't care if someone thinks I'm dumb for going into VIP. I enjoy it, make good use of it, and can afford it. That's what matters to me. I often find that the people who bash VIP the most are the ones who are trying to convince themselves that it's a bad idea, even though they want it. Those are the ones that come off as defensive to me. Someone says they enjoy it, so they feel a need to bash it. I'm really not concerned with them. I know I made a good choice for my needs. I have no reason to be defensive.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Just an FYI, the telesales price is now in the $160s per 1000 points. And they are only selling CWA. I got an equal number of bonus points for my Nov. 10th purchase to enroll my PIC. This was for 105K. The same price was quoted for a larger package.

Hope this helps someone in planning a telesales purchase.

It depends on the volume of points purchased. I received a telesales quote for 300k/300k points for $141/1000 CWA for example.


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[bendadin]

It depends on the volume of points purchased. I received a telesales quote for 300k/300k points for $141/1000 CWA for example.


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$141 purchase in the 300s.
$140 purchase in the 400s.

 

[schoolmarm]

$141 purchase in the 300s.
$140 purchase in the 400s.

Yeah, I was hoping for THOSE prices on Nov. 10th. Didn't happen. One of the larger offers was around 300K pts.
He knew that it was the last day to get the unlimited housekeeping and before the raise in points per level.
Still, I'm glad I did it. Even at $160/1000.

 

[Richelle]

Yeah, I was hoping for THOSE prices on Nov. 10th. Didn't happen. One of the larger offers was around 300K pts.
He knew that it was the last day to get the unlimited housekeeping and before the raise in points per level.
Still, I'm glad I did it. Even at $160/1000.

Depending on how many you bought, the $19 per 1,000 price difference isn't significant overall. Depending on how long you have it, and how often you use it, you may make that difference back in housekeeping savings. You'll never get an ROI on the whole thing, but I wouldn't sweat the higher price tag.

 

[CO skier]

but if you plan on using your membership for 30-50 years and are okay with a smaller pool of resort options, a small purchase to get to Bronze doesn't seem like a bad trade off.

Oh, now the "break even" for a minimum VIP purchase is 30-50 years. and a smaller pool of resorts (within 60 days). ahahahaha!

Newbies reading this, buy something, anything resale Wyndham and forget about VIP.

 

[CCdad]

Oh, now the "break even" is 30-50 years. and a smaller pool of resorts (within 60 days). ahahahaha!

Newbies reading this, buy something, anything resale Wyndham and forget about VIP.

Dude, you need to learn to read her posts first in the context that they were written and then COMPREHEND what she wrote.

In her earlier post(s), she described how she came up with the Bronze VIP breakeven of 10 years.

Then she described her personal travel / ownership preferences - owning a combination of resale at Wyndham, Marriott and WM.

If she was ok just being limited to the smaller Wyndham pool of resorts - the Bronze VIP breakeven is still 10 years. If she or another owner were to be able to use their Bronze VIP for 30-50 years, it's a better return vs only holding to the 10 year breakeven.

 

[55plus]

if you keep your VIP ownership long enough it will pay for itself if you maximize the benefits. VIPP provides the fastest payback if used to its full potential, in my opinion.

 

[dgalati]

if you keep your VIP ownership long enough it will pay for itself if you maximize the benefits. VIPP provides the fastest payback if used to its full potential, in my opinion.

Inheriting a VIPP is the fastest payback unless you can find a VIPP to take you on as a co-owner.

 

[55plus]

Inheriting a VIPP is the fastest payback unless you can find a VIPP to take you on as a co-owner.

I met a guy earlier this year in Destin who is joining forces with two other couples to combine their ownerships to become VIP Platinum. I questioned liability and he said they have a contract drawn up to protect themselves. Something like this may not be spelled out in Wyndham’s policy, but I think this violates trust between Wyndham and its owners.

 

[dgalati]

I met a guy earlier this year in Destin who is joining forces with two other couples to combine their ownerships to become VIP Platinum. I questioned liability and he said they have a contract drawn up to protect themselves. Something like this may not be spelled out in Wyndham’s policy, but I think this violates trust between Wyndham and its owners.

Nothing wrong with playing by the rules and I agree with you 55PLUS but Renting millions of resale points with VIP discount benefits is not spelled out either. Many VIP owners feel its OK and justify bending the rules to take advantage of this loophole. Cancel and re book was a non benefit also but many felt it was OK. When it was eliminated VIP owners blamed the Mega renters. We all know that VIP owners took advantage of this loophole and were also part of the problem.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Nothing wrong with playing by the rules and I agree with you 55PLUS but Renting millions of resale points with VIP discount benefits is not spelled out either. Many VIP owners feel its OK and justify bending the rules to take advantage of this loophole. Cancel and re book was a non benefit also but many felt it was OK. When it was eliminated VIP owners blamed the Mega renters. We all know that VIP owners took advantage of this loophole and were also part of the problem.

Cancel/rebook was not a loophole. And it was HUGELY used as a marketing tool. And without full disclosure that there was risk of losing the unit in the cancel/rebook process. You could call and a VC would do the cancel/rebook for you. Really unfair to shame anyone for using it.

Conversely, my sister for years went to Bentley Brook the week before President's week. A week that is never sold out and you can always get at 1/2 price of a studio and upgrade to a 2 bedroom. For some reason Greenwich, CT, winter break is always the week before everyone else's. My father never, ever, cancel/rebooked. For gosh 10 years, my sister paid full points for that room. Just thinking there were alot of other VIP owners like my Dad. Along those lines, they looked for a reservation once and if it wasn't there, never looked again. Thinking those are the type users that would complain about availability. Maybe not your common owner in 2020, but maybe still? (He was not on the do not sell list).

 

[Richelle]

Cancel/rebook was not a loophole. And it was HUGELY used as a marketing tool. And without full disclosure that there was risk of losing the unit in the cancel/rebook process. You could call and a VC would do the cancel/rebook for you. Really unfair to shame anyone for using it.

I did see it as a loophole but didn't think any less of the average owner for using it, even if it wasn't used as a marketing tool. Especially given how much they paid for their ownership. However, I knew it was a loophole that would eventually be closed because common sense dictated that the discount was meant to encourage people to book in quiet times. So when the sales guy tried to tell me it was a benefit, I didn't bite. That was the same meeting the sales guy tried to tell us that PR members could get pizza delivery from NYC to Orlando if they wanted it. Again, common sense dictated that the cost to get that pizza down there would be too much, not to mention it would taste terrible by the time it got there. He obviously believed my husband and I were dumber than a box of rocks. Needless to say, he didn't get a sale that day.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Nothing wrong with playing by the rules and I agree with you 55PLUS but Renting millions of resale points with VIP discount benefits is not spelled out either. Many VIP owners feel its OK and justify bending the rules to take advantage of this loophole. Cancel and re book was a non benefit also but many felt it was OK. When it was eliminated VIP owners blamed the Mega renters. We all know that VIP owners took advantage of this loophole and were also part of the problem.

I disagree with your assessment with respect to the characterization that VIP owners are somehow taking advantage of a loophole by also using resale points for VIP transactions. By any common definition, a loophole is a set of steps that can be leveraged to somehow work around the system in question to take unfair advantage. For example, a tax loophole is used to avoid paying higher tax rates on income, often by categorizing the revenue into a bucket that is in turn treated differently from a taxable standpoint.

As a VIP owner I cannot choose to use resale points differently than developer points within the system. Nor can anyone at Wyndham via Owner Care on our behalf. I cannot even determine which points will be used when making a reservation. Wyndham has built the system to allow for VIP owners to use all points under ownership for VIP discounts. That includes resale points, PIC points, converted points, etc. That’s not a loophole - it’s the way the system works by design.


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[dgalati]

I disagree with your assessment with respect to the characterization that VIP owners are somehow taking advantage of a loophole by also using resale points for VIP transactions. By any common definition, a loophole is a set of steps that can be leveraged to somehow work around the system in question to take unfair advantage. For example, a tax loophole is used to avoid paying higher tax rates on income, often by categorizing the revenue into a bucket that is in turn treated differently from a taxable standpoint.

As a VIP owner I cannot choose to use resale points differently than developer points within the system. Nor can anyone at Wyndham via Owner Care on our behalf. I cannot even determine which points will be used when making a reservation. Wyndham has built the system to allow for VIP owners to use all points under ownership for VIP discounts. That includes resale points, PIC points, converted points, etc. That’s not a loophole - it’s the way the system works by design.


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I respect your opinion but Cancel and rebook also wasn't considered a loophole at one time but that was how the system worked back then also.

 

[Braindead]

I respect your opinion but Cancel and rebook also wasn't considered a loophole at one time but that was how the system worked back then also.

Why don’t you get over your jealousy of Wyndham VIPs & move on!!!
Your so happy with your WM account so go over to the WM forum & be happy!!
Your only mission here is stir the pot trying turn VIPs on each other & your not happy if atleast half of every thread isn’t about you!!
From your post your not even a Wyndham owner so why do you care what goes on here if it’s not for ATTENTION!!!!

 

[dgalati]

Cancel/rebook was not a loophole. And it was HUGELY used as a marketing tool. And without full disclosure that there was risk of losing the unit in the cancel/rebook process. You could call and a VC would do the cancel/rebook for you. Really unfair to shame anyone for using it.

Conversely, my sister for years went to Bentley Brook the week before President's week. A week that is never sold out and you can always get at 1/2 price of a studio and upgrade to a 2 bedroom. For some reason Greenwich, CT, winter break is always the week before everyone else's. My father never, ever, cancel/rebooked. For gosh 10 years, my sister paid full points for that room. Just thinking there were alot of other VIP owners like my Dad. Along those lines, they looked for a reservation once and if it wasn't there, never looked again. Thinking those are the type users that would complain about availability. Maybe not your common owner in 2020, but maybe still? (He was not on the do not sell list).

Intention was not to shame anyone and I don't blame anyone for taking what the system allows them to use to their advantage.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I did see it as a loophole but didn't think any less of the average owner for using it, even if it wasn't used as a marketing tool. Especially given how much they paid for their ownership. However, I knew it was a loophole that would eventually be closed because common sense dictated that the discount was meant to encourage people to book in quiet times. So when the sales guy tried to tell me it was a benefit, I didn't bite. That was the same meeting the sales guy tried to tell us that PR members could get pizza delivery from NYC to Orlando if they wanted it. Again, common sense dictated that the cost to get that pizza down there would be too much, not to mention it would taste terrible by the time it got there. He obviously believed my husband and I were dumber than a box of rocks. Needless to say, he didn't get a sale that day.

I think I first learned about cancel/rebook here, lol. TUG saved me (it definitely was where I came (drinking water through a fire hose)) when my Dad paid someone to take his VIPP off his hands). Then I had to convince my step-mother that cancelled points weren't dirty. Definitely a long road for me. I would agree the cancel/rebook was a loophole when the automated programs were running. With 1000% assuredness, they were cancelling and rebooking. Anyways, it's over, lol. And I think we can both agree - common sense would tell you it would some day go away (I remember how dumbshocked I was to first learn of it, terrified when the VC's confirmed we could do it, and taking them up on it when they offered to do it all for me). The books we could write on what the salespeople have said or done.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I respect your opinion but Cancel and rebook also wasn't considered a loophole at one time but that was how the system worked back then also.

You missed a key point regarding the definition of a loophole. For any VIP owner to take advantage of the cancel/rebook loophole - they had to perform a certain set of steps to work the system to produce the resulting advantage - hence taking advantage of the loophole - actions were necessary to do so.

If and when anyone can show me the specific set of steps that VIP owners can use to work the system to produce the advantage specific to resale points - then I will agree. But I know there is no set of steps - no actions that can be taken - because the system simply works as designed.

I have no issues with VIP owners having this added benefit for all point types owned, including resale points. We paid dearly for the benefits we have compared to resale only owners. This is no different than investors who enjoy Accredited Investor status - and therefore have access to investments and benefits that ordinary non-accredited investors do not.


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[Richelle]

I respect your opinion but Cancel and rebook also wasn't considered a loophole at one time but that was how the system worked back then also.

The cancel rebook loophole is not the same thing as resale points getting VIP benefits. The first required someone to book two rooms. One big, one small. Then in the discount and upgrade window, they cancel both and then book the smaller one at a discount and upgrade to the bigger one. In other words, a series of steps like [mention]HitchHiker71 [/mention] described. The second is not a series of steps. It happens on its own. The owner does not do anything to make it happen and there is nothing they can do to stop it from happening. Since there are no specific steps the owner has to do to make it happen, you cannot call it a loophole. All they do is book the reservation in the discount window just like every other VIP. If Wyndham finds it benefits them to stop that, they will.

I think what it really boils down to is, people are upset that they paid a ton of money on those points because they didn’t do their research. Had they don’t their research, they would have learned about resale. They are mad at themselves for not doing the research. It’s easier to say that someone else is the problem then admit to themselves they made a mistake. Had they figured it out beforehand, I suspect many of them would have bought resale like us and gotten the same “benefit” for less money.

 

[CCdad]

The second is not a series of steps. It happens on its own. The owner does not do anything to make it happen and there is nothing they can do to stop it from happening. Since there are no specific steps the owner has to do to make it happen, you cannot call it a loophole.

Let the hair splitting begin.

The second series of steps occurs when

1) an owner either has VIP status and chooses to add a resale points contract to their VIP account OR
2) they have a resale points account and choose to purchase a developer points contract(s) to have VIP privileges added.

Then they take advantage of VIP benefits on some or all of their resale acquired points (booking reservations in the VIP discount window, receiving upgraded units on full price or discounted reservations in the VIP upgrade window, making upgraded points deposits in RCI, etc).

While some of this does happen automatically by program design, an owner still has taken steps to enable those VIP benefits being applied to a resale points acquisition.

 

[Eric B]

... so it’s somehow wrong for a VIP owner to buy resale contracts...? That seems to be what this is evolving to.

 

[Sandi Bo]

... so it’s somehow wrong for a VIP owner to buy resale contracts...? That seems to be what this is evolving to.

... however, it is perfectly fine to buy for $1 something someone paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for

 

[HitchHiker71]

While some of this does happen automatically by program design, an owner still has taken steps to enable those VIP benefits being applied to a resale points acquisition.

What steps did the VIP owner take to "enable those VIP benefits being applied to a resale points acquisition" exactly? What did I as a VIP owner do to leverage a loophole? The answer is there were no steps. Explain to me how VIP benefits being applied to resale points is any different than VIP benefits being applied to PIC points. PIC points are not developer points either, so using your same assumptions and assertions, VIP owners should also not be able to use PIC points for VIP discounts.

Again, I see no issue with VIP owners having the added benefit of points discounts for points other than pure developer points in their accounts. Perhaps there are a handful of VIP owners taking advantage of this benefit by adding millions of resale points to their accounts, but the vast majority of VIP owners don't fall into this bucket. In the real world, we don't manage by exception, we manage by the rule (80/20), and the essential argument being made here, which really is unsupportable at the end of the day IMHO, is that we should manage by exception. Obviously Wyndham is not managing by exception, they are managing by the rule, and I for one am glad they are doing exactly that.

 

[CCdad]

I’ve done both - the PIC Plus enrollment and added resale contract points to my VIP account. I’m following the rules like others have and I’m not ashamed to have gotten my higher VIP tier using PIC Plus.

The only point meant by my post is that the purchase(s) in either case was made with both full knowledge and intent that VIP benefits would apply to resale (or that the PIC contract enrollment piggy backed to the developer purchase). To suggest that it wasn’t a planned step is simply hair splitting.


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