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We own in quite a few timeshare systems. Marriott/Vistana has been much more restrictive than any of the others and continues to "at least on the website" keep resorts open.
Everyone complains about the big bad Wyndham but they have been 300% more accommodating that Marriott/Vistana.
I wonder whether Wyndham's breakage rate is more sensitive to underlying economic circumstances than some others. If it is, and the next few years play out the way I suspect they will in terms of the underlying economy, then allowing people more liberty to bank forward may not be such a burden on the system.
We own in quite a few timeshare systems. Marriott/Vistana has been much more restrictive than any of the others and continues to "at least on the website" keep resorts open.
Everyone complains about the big bad Wyndham but they have been 300% more accommodating that Marriott/Vistana.
The Wyndham points can also be deposited in RCI so in fact Whyndham has less to worry than Vistana since many owners will look for external exchanges if the internal inventory is not good. Same with HGVC
It is also possible that Marriott had better information or foresight that resorts would not open soon. If you believe the resorts would open after 4 weeks you can probably give everyone unrestricted points hoping that it will not create a big problem. If the resorts stay closed for 3 months (quite possible), the situation becomes very difficult.
I see no reason to keep an upcoming reservation 60+ days out for this summer. The inventory will be there, you can always rebook if you want. If you look at recent polls done, a lot of people are not going to jump on a plane right away.
I think most people are punting this years staroptions/ DC points/ Club points into 2021. I’ve done this for my Vistana and Hilton timeshares and know several other people to have done the same. Banking is the safe thing to do in this situation.
The Wyndham points can also be deposited in RCI so in fact Whyndham has less to worry than Vistana since many owners will look for external exchanges if the internal inventory is not good. Same with HGVC
The Wyndham points can also be deposited in RCI so in fact Whyndham has less to worry than Vistana since many owners will look for external exchanges if the internal inventory is not good. Same with HGVC
It is also possible that Marriott had better information or foresight that resorts would not open soon. If you believe the resorts would open after 4 weeks you can probably give everyone unrestricted points hoping that it will not create a big problem. If the resorts stay closed for 3 months (quite possible), the situation becomes very difficult.
Perhaps a lot comes down to internal system utilization? Does Marriott and Vistana have higher internal usage within their points systems than Wyndham does? Perhaps they have more breakage and thus more slack available in their system. I don't know that the ability to exchange in RCI really matters. WIth a deposit, inventory must go with it. RCI isn't going to take a March, April or May 2020 week for deposit. That means that the same inventory that is available to owners later this year and next would need to go to RCI for anyone wanting to deposit in RCI.
I think Marriott probably made a better move by starting out with tougher restrictions and then lightening up vs other systems just cancelling and giving back unrestricted weeks or points. These other systems can't make new cancellations now more restrictive or they face more backlash, where Marriott can only look better if they loosen restrictions.
Either way, it is owners that stand to lose regardless of which direction they go with handling cancellations. Marriott just chose to penalize owners that were stuck with last minute cancellations where the other systems ultimately will penalize all owners with tougher reservations in late 2020 and 2021.
Vistana today closed Westin Lagunamar until the end of May. We were booked for a 3 May arrival. They are telling us to cancel and take the standard treatment for refunded StarOptions. I'm refusing. I don't like the forced 120-day window, as I can't fit that into our planning. So...what's likely to happen now?
I do not know if anyone deposits Vistana in RCI. I enrolled one of my units, the TPU is terrible compared to what I can get in Interval for the same week. In the end I bought a great RCI points contract (Regal Vistas at Massanutten, 178,000 points EY, 1030 MF) in order to really have access to RCI as well.
I do not know if anyone deposits Vistana in RCI. I enrolled one of my units, the TPU is terrible compared to what I can get in Interval for the same week. In the end I bought a great RCI points contract (178,000 points annual, 1030 MF) in order to really have access to RCI as well.
IMO restricted SOs are a lot better than depositing in RCI. I am not sure mentioning a bad option is an option at all. We do not even know how many Vistana owners are RCI members, and it is not popular for a reason.
IMO restricted SOs are a lot better than depositing in RCI. I am not sure mentioning a bad option is an option at all. We do not even know how many Vistana owners are RCI members, and it is not popular for a reason.
I think its worth noting that MVW had the least customer friendly response to the hurricanes.
Now it has the least customer friendly response to covid, and the brand it bought used to be more customer friendly than it is.
Worldmark and Holiday Inn have both given owners back unrestricted points from covid cancellations, even at the last minute where there would normally be penalties.
I think the fact that MVW brands are consistently the least accommodating during hard times is worth noting.
If every week/point is backed up by a specific interval somewhere I don't see how you can just allow a huge chunk of owners to move a bunch of points into a future year without significant downstream repercussions.
One thing MVW can do is allow the inventory owned by them to be used up and let it expire during these coming months rather than forcing the inventory from individual owners to expire (indirectly by restricting use). Instead of renting the units they own for the next few years, they can make them available to individual owners to add slack to the system. Since a large % of sales come from existing owners, this would generate goodwill amongst their customers and could be in their long term interest.
Regardless, owners collectively (developer + individuals) have lost usable time in their properties, so the loss will have to be supported by all owners. The scummy developers will force it on individual owners and the ones who want to develop trust and goodwill take on bigger loss than their fair share.
Hawaii is going to be very interesting to watch as they are so dependent on tourism. This is from their tourism authority:
Visitors to the Hawaiian Islands spent $17.75 billion in 2019, an increase of 1.4 percent compared to 2018, according to preliminary year-end statistics released today by the Hawaii Tourism Authority. Visitor spending includes lodging, interisland airfare, shopping, food, car rental and other expenses while in Hawaii.
Spending by visitors generated $2.07 billion in state tax revenue in 2019, an increase of $28.5 million (+1.4%) from 2018. Additionally, 216,000 jobs statewide were supported by Hawaii’s tourism industry in 2019. [source https://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/news/news-releases/2020/hawai-i-visitor-statistics-released-for-2019/]
Almost $6 billion of that spending comes from non-American tourist so even if they open up to mainland US visitors, the spending could still drop by more than a third with no foreign visitors. Sadly our friends in Hawaiian are in for a tough ride as a tourism supported economy.
Hawaii is going to be very interesting to watch as they are so dependent on tourism. This is from their tourism authority:
Visitors to the Hawaiian Islands spent $17.75 billion in 2019, an increase of 1.4 percent compared to 2018, according to preliminary year-end statistics released today by the Hawaii Tourism Authority. Visitor spending includes lodging, interisland airfare, shopping, food, car rental and other expenses while in Hawaii.
Spending by visitors generated $2.07 billion in state tax revenue in 2019, an increase of $28.5 million (+1.4%) from 2018. Additionally, 216,000 jobs statewide were supported by Hawaii’s tourism industry in 2019. [source https://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/news/news-releases/2020/hawai-i-visitor-statistics-released-for-2019/]
Almost $6 billion of that spending comes from non-American tourist so even if they open up to mainland US visitors, the spending could still drop by more than a third with no foreign visitors. Sadly our friends in Hawaiian are in for a tough ride as a tourism supported economy.
One thing MVW can do is allow the inventory owned by them to be used up and let it expire during these coming months rather than forcing the inventory from individual owners to expire (indirectly by restricting use). Instead of renting the units they own for the next few years, they can make them available to individual owners to add slack to the system. Since a large % of sales come from existing owners, this would generate goodwill amongst their customers and could be in their long term interest.
I believe in one of the letters to MVC owners, management said they were doing exactly this, at least to some limited extent. I think the question remains, however, even if they let ALL of their developer-controlled inventory to be repurposed for owner use, would that even be anywhere near enough to absorb what will likely be, at a minimum, a six-month virtual shutdown of inventory usage. My suspicion is it won't come close to creating enough slack.
Vistana today closed Westin Lagunamar until the end of May. We were booked for a 3 May arrival. They are telling us to cancel and take the standard treatment for refunded StarOptions. I'm refusing. I don't like the forced 120-day window, as I can't fit that into our planning. So...what's likely to happen now?
It seems that they could. After Westin St John was closed for hurricane damage, not only did we get full Staroptions (points) back, but they were extended for 2 years. And then our maintenance fees dropped by about 50%. Fortunately, our HOA had us fully insured, so we were not hit with and assessment for repairs.
So yes, resorts that laid off staff would seem to have room to lower maintenance fees.
It seems that they could. After Westin St John was closed for hurricane damage, not only did we get full Staroptions (points) back, but they were extended for 2 years. And then our maintenance fees dropped by about 50%. Fortunately, our HOA had us fully insured, so we were not hit with and assessment for repairs.
So yes, resorts that laid off staff would seem to have room to lower maintenance fees.
I was referring to the property taxes, not the maintenance fees. I am not familiar to how they are calculated but Florida has a "real estate tax". Those taxes are actually high on a per condo basis when you multiply the tax per week with 52.. I think Hawaii has a significantly higher tax.
surprised you even kept that reservation for May 3rd, there was no way that was going to happen. Were going to be lucky if we can get into some place at all during the summer.
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