Open Season Rates Changes for 2020

[SteelerGal]

Before we sold our MarBrisa, I used OS at least 3x/yr. Since MarBrisa is connected to Legoland, OS is an excellent deal.

 

[jestme]

This is not correct. HGV absolutely can, and does, rent inventory controlled by HGV on Hilton.com. You can rent most, if not all, HGV properties on Hilton.com. Here are several categories of units for rent in early January at Lagoon Tower and Kalia, for example:

View attachment 15331

These are the actual rates, roughly 30 days out (just like Open Season). As you can see, Open Season is still a better deal.

When someone rents an HGV unit on Hilton.com, they get the same benefits as they would with a hotel, like daily room cleaning, even though it is a timeshare unit. And in most cases, Hilton does not own the hotel rooms they rent out on Hilton.com either. The Hilton hotels themselves are almost always owned by REITs, investment firms, etc. Hilton Hotels Corp just acts as the property manager and/or reservation agent. It's similar for the Hilton Grand Vacations units that are listed on Hilton.com. Those are rented out on Hilton.com by virtue of the marketing agreements that HGV has with Hilton Hotels Corp.

While you are correct that a property like Lagoon Tower is largely sold out, HGV still winds up controlling inventory at virtually all of their resorts - when owners convert their week to Hilton Honors points, when sold units are reacquired through owner upgrades, ROFR, or foreclosure (until resold), etc. etc. That's how they get inventory to rent on Hilton.com.

The units you see on Hilton.com are in fact from owners who have traded their HGVC units and points in to HIlton for some other benefit. A cruise, an RCI exchange, etc. Yes, those prices reflect pricing in the hotel world. However, Open Season would be a last resort for them to use that inventory on, as they control it and can make far more on the retail market.
The rest of the inventory you see as Open Season is merely HGVC Owners Weeks, which are not booked by an HGVC member at the 30 day out level. Similar to Club Season, which are rooms that are not booked by owners in the Home Season. They have not been exchanged for anything, so Hilton does not "own" or "control" them, they are just weeks that are not being used. HGVC are merely acting as a agent for other HGVC owners to rent those rooms for points during (plus a reservation fee) Club Season, or cash during Open Season that would not otherwise be utilized in the next 30 days.

 

[JIMinNC]

The units you see on Hilton.com are in fact from owners who have traded their HGVC units and points in to HIlton for some other benefit. A cruise, an RCI exchange, etc. Yes, those prices reflect pricing in the hotel world. However, Open Season would be a last resort for them to use that inventory on, as they control it and can make far more on the retail market.
The rest of the inventory you see as Open Season is merely HGVC Owners Weeks, which are not booked by an HGVC member at the 30 day out level. Similar to Club Season, which are rooms that are not booked by owners in the Home Season. They have not been exchanged for anything, so Hilton does not "own" or "control" them, they are just weeks that are not being used. HGVC are merely acting as a agent for other HGVC owners to rent those rooms for points during (plus a reservation fee) Club Season, or cash during Open Season that would not otherwise be utilized in the next 30 days.

Correct. But when an owner exchanges their week or HGV points for Honors points, cruises, etc., or the days go otherwise unused by the time Open Season rolls around, HGV does obtain defacto “control” of those dates. If they were acting as an agent for the owner as you suggest, then the revenue from the Open Season rental would go to the owner, but any Open Season revenue goes to HGV. So when an owner uses an alternative benefit, or once it goes unused at Open Season, control effectively reverts to HGV.

 

[bevans]

I gave up on Open Season after 2015 because I did the math and using points was far more economical plus being able to reserve and cancel much farther out. I bought another 7000 point at Flamingo on the secondary market and am quite happy with the using it instead of OS. I did not use RCI for years because of fees but have been using Last Call of late and is better than OS by far. I am retired so more flexible than people working still so it might not work for all but is does for us. Curt

 

[jehb2]

The question is: even though it is getting higher for us than it used to be, how does it compare to rates at equivalent hotels in the area? Because that's the point at which it becomes an obsolete concept due to overpricing. And I'm not as familiar with room rates in these areas, so I can't say where they are on that spectrum (and I also wouldn't put it past them to overprice despite what I said ). But just raising prices is not enough to obsolete the model. It needs context.

I know this much. 20 years ago before we had kids were able to travel at anytime and at the late minute. We paid $60.00 a night (open season) and stayed in Lagoon Tower, South Beach, and a couple of other locations. $60.00 was waaaaay cheaper than the out-of-pocket costs for a hotel in Waikiki. And this was before all the extra “resort fees” that hotels now charge.

 

[alwysonvac]

Hawaii hotel performance

SOURCE - https://www.hawaiisenatemajority.co...performance-report-through-third-quarter-2019

SOURCE - https://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/research/infrastructure-research/

 

[alwysonvac]

Open Season Rates changes from 2015 to 2020

I basically selected a single resort for each destination.
For each resort location, the lowest unit type for each unit size and the single highest unit type/size overall were include.

NOTE:
In 2015, there was a separate Open Season chart for NY. The remaining locations used a single default table (gray shaded cells)
In 2016, there were separate Open Season charts for FL, LV, HI, NY. The remaining locations used a single default table (gray shaded cells)
In 2017, there were separate Open Season charts for FL, LV, HI, NY, SC, DC. The remaining locations used a single default table

 

[alwysonvac]

From HGV 10-Q On October 31, 2019 - https://investors.hgv.com/financial-reporting/sec-filings

 

[dougp26364]

This is a GREAT example of why you should NEVER base a timeshare purchase on a benefit that is not guaranteed or, at the very least, can be modified at managements discretion.

I've had salesmen from several companies get steamed when I point out the benefits they’re selling today are not guaranteed for tomorrow. The first back stab came when DRI changed its quite private owners lounge atop Polo Towers into a loud public dance club and then turned into private office space. When they were selling that resort they made certain to parade potential buyers through it promoting as a benefit of owners for owners only.
Marriott use to sell weeks for their conversion to hotel rewards points and being a Marriott Rewards Millionaire.
Sunterra use to sell points and tell prospects they could reserve and rent for a profit, then later enforced the rule against it.
I remember HGVC selling the open season as a benefit worthy of becoming an owner. So glad that benefit wasn’t a reason for us to become owners.

 

[alwysonvac]

This is a GREAT example of why you should NEVER base a timeshare purchase on a benefit that is not guaranteed or, at the very least, can be modified at managements discretion...

But sadly, almost everything about the program can be modified at management’s discretion.

From the 2019 Club Rule (page 20)

Program Changes. Club program use options, fees and rules, including but not limited to, the RCI Exchange Program, special exchanges, nightly point values, reservation windows, the Hilton Honors program, ClubPoint Saving, RCI Depositing, Borrowing, Converting, and ClubPartner Perks that may be offered from time to time, are subject to change, adjustment, suspension or discontinuation without notice . Any such changes will not apply to transactions confirmed prior to the effective date of any such change . In the event the point values for accommodations are adjusted, such adjustments shall not disturb the one-to-one purchaser to accommodation ratio, or a Club Member’s ability to reserve their Home Week .​

 

[frank808]

I know this much. 20 years ago before we had kids were able to travel at anytime and at the late minute. We paid $60.00 a night (open season) and stayed in Lagoon Tower, South Beach, and a couple of other locations. $60.00 was waaaaay cheaper than the out-of-pocket costs for a hotel in Waikiki. And this was before all the extra “resort fees” that hotels now charge.

I thought south beach Mcalpin Ocean Plaza was added to HGVC within he past 8 years or so? Thanks

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[alwysonvac]

I thought south beach Mcalpin Ocean Plaza was added to HGVC within he past 8 years or so? Thanks

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It originally opened in 1998 as Hilton Grand Vacations Club at South Beach - Miami

 

[frank808]

It originally opened in 1998 as Hilton Grand Vacations Club at South Beach - Miami

Thanks for the info. Were both buildings back then part of HGVC also?

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[alwysonvac]

Thanks for the info. Were both buildings back then part of HGVC also?

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Yes both buildings (McAlpin & Ocean Plaza) were part of HGVC.
See this old 2007 thread - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/hgvc-south-beach-miami-question.48350/

In 2014, HGVC changed the name of several resorts. HGVC at South Beach was included.
See this old thread - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/3-resorts-change-their-name-for-2014.203814/

 

[dougp26364]

I can't imagine electric cars taking off until (1) there are more convenient easy to find charging stations; (2) batteries are developed that hold their charges longer; and (3) batteries are developed that can be charged in a whole lot less time...

George

But sadly, almost everything about the program can be modified at management’s discretion.

From the 2019 Club Rule (page 20)

Program Changes. Club program use options, fees and rules, including but not limited to, the RCI Exchange Program, special exchanges, nightly point values, reservation windows, the Hilton Honors program, ClubPoint Saving, RCI Depositing, Borrowing, Converting, and ClubPartner Perks that may be offered from time to time, are subject to change, adjustment, suspension or discontinuation without notice . Any such changes will not apply to transactions confirmed prior to the effective date of any such change . In the event the point values for accommodations are adjusted, such adjustments shall not disturb the one-to-one purchaser to accommodation ratio, or a Club Member’s ability to reserve their Home Week .​

While this is true, some things, like open season rates, are much easier to modify without an owner revolt, like, say, revising existing points requirements to reserve specific units. Plus, they would have a problem if they were to Jack the rates on a 2 bedroom standard unit with giving those owners a corresponding increase in allotted points, this keeping things reasonably equal.

My point being you should buy a timeshare to use as a timeshare, not based on extra benefits such as hotel rewards points, owner bonus usage, getaways or extra vacations with II or RCI or even the ability to get great trades with II or RCI.

MANY things have changed since we started with timeshare. Floating weeks, points, trust based ownership et..... But the basic usage rights has remained fairly consistent were as the “extras” have changed frequently. When a salesman ventures into the quicksand of extras, the presentation is over. I didn’t but HGVC for open season and we didn’t buy into Marriott to become Marriott Millionaires with trading units for hotel rewards points. We bought to use and, while there have been notable modifications, the basic right to use has remained reasonably stable

 

[alwysonvac]

...My point being you should buy a timeshare to use as a timeshare, not based on extra benefits such as hotel rewards points, owner bonus usage, getaways or extra vacations with II or RCI or even the ability to get great trades with II or RCI.

oh, I agree and there are a few of us that caution folks that come back from a presentation looking to buy.

Sadly, they’re still highlighting all of these benefits in order to get the sale. The following was posted from a person who attended a timeshare presentation in March 2019 (link)

 

[dougp26364]

oh, I agree and there are a few of us that caution folks that come back from a presentation looking to buy.

Sadly, they’re still highlighting all of these benefits in order to get the sale. The following was posted from a person who attended a timeshare presentation in March 2019 (link)

All I can say is wow. It’s been so long since we’ve taken a “newbie” tour (it’s all been owner updates within the systems we own) I didn’t know they were still shoveling that much *bleep*.

We stopped taking tours outside our own systems because my wife was afraid I’d get my butt whipped by the sales staff for calling them out on their lies, half truths or pointing out most of what they were selling wasn’t guaranteed and subject to change at any minute. At least with the owners updates I can keep my mouth shut when they try to sell me on the benefits of elite status, which have level changes and benefit changes every time the direction of the wind changes.

 

[GeorgeJ.]

Silly me, what was I think ... they need to make a profit!

In 2021, they should eliminate Open Season rates all together and raise annual Club dues and transaction fees by 100% each year.
In 2022, they should raise their HOA management fees by 150% each year.
In 2023, they should raise transfer fees and enrollment/activation fees by 200% each year.
In 2024, they should start charging us ... daily resort fees!
In 2025, they should start charging us a resort check-in fee.

Sorry, just having a little fun.

The Las Vegas HGVC resorts (I believe that Trump is still an exception to this) already charge a daily resort fee if you trade in through RCI... so seriously, what's to stop them from charging a resort fee to owners if you book through HGVC...

 

[CalGalTraveler]

The Las Vegas HGVC resorts (I believe that Trump is still an exception to this) already charge a daily resort fee if you trade in through RCI... so seriously, what's to stop them from charging a resort fee to owners if you book through HGVC...

Owners walking...

 

[dayooper]

The Las Vegas HGVC resorts (I believe that Trump is still an exception to this) already charge a daily resort fee if you trade in through RCI... so seriously, what's to stop them from charging a resort fee to owners if you book through HGVC...

Owners walking...

DRI is a great example of this. When they jacked up their fees, they had very few new sales and owners just walking. Their name is so damaged within the business.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

DRI is a great example of this. When they jacked up their fees, they had very few new sales and owners just walking. Their name is so damaged within the business.

I have spent some time lurking on the DRI board since the HGVC bid. Diamond is not a formula for success in this business. Unlike HGVC, my observation is that there are very few people wanting to join the Diamond system, and many existing owners hanging in there but questioning their ownership and thus planning for an exit at an opportune time, or owners who want out and Diamond making draconian moves to limit them. More outflow than inflow.

I hear owners like the variety of locations and a number of the properties are nice, but I don't hear many, who rave about the program. The biggest complaint being about the excessive MF cost and fees of the program relative to simply renting hotel rooms and condos in the areas they serve.

I hope HGVC is not headed down this path.

 

[dougp26364]

I have spent some time lurking on the DRI board since the HGVC bid. Diamond is not a formula for success in this business. Unlike HGVC, my observation is that there are very few people wanting to join the Diamond system, and many existing owners hanging in there but questioning their ownership and thus planning for an exit at an opportune time, or owners who want out and Diamond making draconian moves to limit them. More outflow than inflow.

I hear owners like the variety of locations and a number of the properties are nice, but I don't hear many, who rave about the program. The biggest complaint being about the excessive MF cost and fees of the program relative to simply renting hotel rooms and condos in the areas they serve.

I hope HGVC is not headed down this path.

DRI would be a decent system except they jacked their management fees to damn high.

They use to try to get deeded owners to convert their weeks to trust points, but no one would because the trust management fees were to high. When we enrolled our weeks into THE Club (keep your deed but can participate in points) it was a flat management fee of $135, which was reasonable. Then when owners wouldn’t convert deeds to trust points, they changed the fee structure and THE Club management fee went to $545 for us..... with approx 5% yearly increases and without any significant benefits added. Just bend over and take it or change your deeds to trust points. We choose to vote with our feet and walk. One of the best decisions I ever made.

 

[jehb2]

I thought south beach Mcalpin Ocean Plaza was added to HGVC within he past 8 years or so? Thanks

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The last time we stayed at HGVC South Beach we went clubbing around midnight (still to early for South Beach) and I wore a mini skirt. Yeah, that was definitely close to 20 years ago.

 

[GeorgeJ.]

Owners walking...

Since it's HGVC and not RCI that are charging the resort fees in Las Vegas, it would be easy enough for HGVC to exempt HGVC owners (owners of any HGVC resort) from the resort fee. I have no idea what the percentage would be of RCI exchanges by HGVC owners into HGVC resorts, but I would expect that it's a small number. It would be no big deal for them to exempt HGVC owners from the resort fee.
I believe that HGVC Strip charges for parking if you rent through Hilton.com or exchange in through RCI. But they exempt HGVC owners who trade in. I don't recall them charging me the parking fee when I have rented there through Hilton.com either since I'm an HGVC owner...
We have not used Open Season since the old rates ($60 and $80) started being jacked up by HGVC. So much for that "benefit"...

 

[magmue]

It would be no big deal for them to exempt HGVC owners from the resort fee.

But HGVC probably makes more money if HGVC owners use their HGVC points to book other HGVC resorts. Anything that makes booking HGVC through RCI less appealing adds to their bottom line, I would guess.