Westin Flex Resale Benefits

[CalGalTraveler]

Someone in an earlier thread mentioned "With Westin Flex resale, all that are left are the home weeks to reserve." Another person said it was voluntary. (my apologies I looked but couldn't easily find the comments)

So, what exactly is a home week for Westin Flex resale? i.e. all you have is points so does this mean that you are limited to making 12 month point reservations at the 5 or so resorts in the Westin Flex?

Do these Flex points not convert to SOs at 8 months? If so, what happens at the 8 month mark? IMO being able to make multiple 12 month reservations at the Westins in flex doesn't sound so bad as being limited to a voluntary week at a specific resort.

 

[tschwa2]

Flex points do not convert to SO's if resale. You can book them 0-12 months but you are still restricted to the flex trust inventory.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Flex points do not convert to SO's if resale. You can book them 0-12 months but you are still restricted to the flex trust inventory.

Thanks. Hmm...So you can still make multiple reservations with short stays at the 12 month window to the 8 or so resorts in the flex trust inventory? If so, it seems if you can pick up a Westin Flex resale for next to nothing even if the MF are a bit higher, it could take many years to catch up to the buy-in cost of the key Westin weeks. So instead of trading in SVV, WKV SO or SDO, SBP weeks and rolling the dice with II, you get 12 months priority and flexible stays at multiple Westins. Seems like a mini-Westin mandatory system of sorts instead of true voluntary where you are limited to a week at a specific resort. Is my assumption correct?

 

[CPNY]

Someone in an earlier thread mentioned "With Westin Flex resale, all that are left are the home weeks to reserve." Another person said it was voluntary. (my apologies I looked but couldn't easily find the comments)

So, what exactly is a home week for Westin Flex resale? i.e. all you have is points so does this mean that you are limited to making 12 month point reservations at the 5 or so resorts in the Westin Flex?

Do these Flex points not convert to SOs at 8 months? If so, what happens at the 8 month mark? IMO being able to make multiple 12 month reservations at the Westins in flex doesn't sound so bad as being limited to a voluntary week at a specific resort.

Flex are voluntary, options will convert at 8 months to any resort in the network if the flex plan is purchased from the developer. On resale, you can only book at the Westin’s that are in that particular flex program.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Flex are voluntary, options will convert at 8 months to any resort in the network if the flex plan is purchased from the developer. On resale, you can only book at the Westin’s that are in that particular flex program.

So no SO inventory, but Westin Flex trust includes WKORV, WKORVN, Nanea, WRV, WPORV, SDO, WKV, Mission Hills, and they've talked about adding WSJ [edited to correct property list]. These are the primary resorts in the network that interest us (x Mexico) plus you get 12 month reservation window. So may not be a terrible option other than you don't get OV/OF on Maui and may not get peak depending on what's in the trust.

But is II really any different? SO inventory *might* be better. But who knows?

Wondering if this is another low-cost option for trading. One recently sold for 81k EOY options on Ebay at $2,500 with a MF of 1822/week or $911/year.

It's a bit more expensive than SVV but compared to WKV the buy-in might be lower. Would have to run the numbers on the break-even point for the MF.

The term "voluntary" in the Flex context seems odd because you are not stuck with one week at one resort every year. It's more like a mini-mandatory system because the resale buyer still has flexible rights to use points for reservations at multiple resorts in the trust - it is a system within the system.

 

[CPNY]

So no SO inventory, but Westin Flex trust includes WKORV, WKORVN, Nanea(?), WRV, SDO, WKV (others?) and they've talked about adding WSJ. These are the only resorts in the network that interest us plus you get 12 month reservation window. So may not be a terrible option other than you don't get OV/OF on Maui and may not get peak depending on what's in the trust.

But is II really any different? SO inventory *might* be better. But who knows?

Wondering if this is another low-cost option for trading.

The term voluntary in the Flex context seems odd because you are not stuck with one week at one resort every year. It's more like a mini-mandatory system - a system within the system.

*Edit, Nanea just added , WSJ no (as of now and I wouldn’t buy based on maybe adding it), Mexico no. The benefit is booking Hawaii 12 months out as well as Westin riverfront ski week or even WKV spring break. If those don’t appeal to you, not sure if it’s worth it. I almost thought about it just for Westin riverfront ski week. That’s a huge draw for people. I hear it’s an amazing resort. But the Sheraton mountain vista is extremely nice as well.

 

[Moparman42]

Nanea was just added, so it IS included. I an see the advantage to the flex if you want to stay at the particular group of resorts, but the MF's are higher. buying KORV resale would get you to Hawaii 12-8, and anywhere else 8-0.. and the view in Hawaii would be better. Not too sure about the flex program yet, but have my list of questions for my owners update I November.

 

[CPNY]

Nanea was just added, so it IS included. I an see the advantage to the flex if you want to stay at the particular group of resorts, but the MF's are higher. buying KORV resale would get you to Hawaii 12-8, and anywhere else 8-0.. and the view in Hawaii would be better. Not too sure about the flex program yet, but have my list of questions for my owners update I November.

I agree. If you want Hawaii in prime season then buying there resale is better at WKOV. If you aren’t traveling peak season , you can get oceanfront villas at 8 months. I’ve been able to with SVV SO. I can see the appeal for Westin riverfront ski weeks. Those are expensive on resale and they are voluntary. Nearly impossible to get at 8 months. Although SMV is easier to get at 8 or even 6 I’ve seen ski weeks available.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Owning in HI is best for peak especially for OF/OV. We own WKORVN OF and we were told we were #1 priority for view during peak summer because we booked at midnight.

I view Flex resale as similar to SVV, WKV SO's or SDO as another potential trading option for shoulder and off season. (Maybe peak for IV HI at 12 months, but who knows?) Westin Riverfront for ski is attractive but not sure of inventory. SO's provide more options with SMV and Steamboat which might be a vote for SVV or WKV SOs.

The problem is not knowing exactly what is in the trust inventory. Even though SMV and WRV are voluntary, I don't envision owners who bought developer trading into Flex when they already own SO rights to reserve at other properties when they decide they don't want to ski every year. Only resale would see conversion as attractive but those are likely limited at this point.

 

[duke]

Even though SMV is voluntary, I don't envision owners who bought developer trading into Flex when they already own SO rights to reserve at other properties when they decide they don't want to ski every year. Only resale would see conversion as attractive but those are likely limited at this point.

SMV is BEST for RETRO as it offers lots of StarPoint/Marriott Points which are now very hard to earn.

 

[skibummer]

The other recent factor is that it appears Marriott is exercising ROFR very frequently on the Flex products since the merger. I have tried to buy resale Sheraton Flex for better access to the winter Steamboat ski weeks and all of my lower offers ($1000-2500 or less) for 148,100+ HOs have all been snatched up by Marriott after a signed contract during the ROFR period. Very few of the Steamboat winter weeks are deeded units and most are in the Sheraton Flex program. IIRC, I think less than 34 units (the original tower) are part of the deeded program, and the rest are Flex trust units, including the hotel conversion into 112 timeshare units. Since HOs do not convert to SOs at the 8-month mark with resale Westin or Sheraton Flex weeks I am hesitant to pay above a "deal" price for a low residual value resale product where I am limited to the Flex resorts only and can't use SOs in the Vistana system nor bank any SOs since they don't exist with the resale flex product.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

The other recent factor is that it appears Marriott is exercising ROFR very frequently on the Flex products since the merger. I have tried to buy resale Sheraton Flex for better access to the winter Steamboat ski weeks and all of my lower offers ($2500 or less) for 148,100 HOs have all been snatched up by Marriott after a signed contract during the ROFR period. Very few of the Steamboat winter weeks are deeded units and most are in the Sheraton Flex program. IIRC, I think less than 34 units are part of the deeded program, and the rest are Flex trust units. Since HOs do not convert to SOs at the 8-month mark with resale Westin or Sheraton Flex weeks I am hesitant to pay above a "great deal" price for a low residual value resale product where I am limited to the Flex resorts only and can't use SOs in the Vistana system nor bank any SOs since they don't exist with the resale flex product.

Great info. So you must use in the use year and can't bank or borrow Flex points? Is that limited to resale or is are developer Flex purchases limited too?

 

[tschwa2]

Great info. So you can't bank or borrow Flex points? Is that limited to resale or is developer limited too?

SO's can be banked and when you bank you are banking as StarOptions. So if you bought retail you can bank flex.

 

[skibummer]

Great info. So you can't bank or borrow Flex points? Is that limited to resale or is developer limited too?

You cannot bank HOs for either resale flex product. SOs don't exist for resale flex so no banking or access outside of the flex resorts for resale products. Developer purchased HOs ($$$) convert to SOs at 8 months and can be banked like typical SOs. All of my purchases have been resale (thank you TUG), so I am not considering buying from the developer. That is why the flex product has such a horrible resale value, and the fact that you don't know the actual inventory in the flex trust. I have family that purchased Sheraton Flex from the developer and they don't have any issue getting high demand ski weeks at the 12-month mark, but those high demand ski weeks are virtually non-existent with SOs at 8 months. I can on occasion get random winter ski weeks at Steamboat with SOs at the 8-month mark, but it is hit or miss at best.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

You cannot bank HOs for either resale flex product. SOs don't exist for resale flex so no banking or access outside of the flex resorts for resale products. Developer purchased HOs ($$$) convert to SOs at 8 months and can be banked. All of my purchases have been resale (thank you TUG), so I am not considering buying from the developer. That is why the flex product has a horrible resale value, and the fact that you don't know the actual inventory in the flex trust. I have family that purchased Sheraton Flex from the developer and they don't have any issue getting high demand ski weeks at the 12-month mark, but those high demand ski weeks are virtually non-existent with SOs at 8 months. I can on occasion get random winter ski weeks at Steamboat with SOs at the 8-month mark, but it is hit or miss at best.

Thanks. I can see the limitations now.

 

[Venter]

Thanks. I can see the limitations now.

You can put your HO's into Interval and use for up to two years.

 

[DannyTS]

You can put your HO's into Interval and use for up to two years.

How do the flex deposits work? How many options do you have to deposit?

 

[dioxide45]

If so, it seems if you can pick up a Westin Flex resale for next to nothing even if the MF are a bit higher,

We don't know if you will be able to pick up Westin Flex for next to nothing. Do date, I don't think we have seen a resale Westin Flex come up for sale. With access to Maui at 12 months for any length of stay, they may show to be desired by many. Also, since a reservation made with them would be a home resort stay, they would be rentable. Meaning you could theoretically book some in demand weeks in Maui or even Kierland and rent it out. This may prop prices up like they are in Scottsdale.

So for now, it seems you will have to wait until they start to come along for resale and even then you may have to be willing to pay more than nothing for it. We will see.

 

[tschwa2]

How do the flex deposits work? How many options do you have to deposit?

I think you can deposit as many or as few as you want but if you deposit too few you won't be able to anything with them. Flex uses a crossover grid. Alternatively you can do short stays (same crappy limited availability for weeks owners) and the points differ based on the day of the week and size of the unit. https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?attachments/ii_points-png.2203/

 

[CPNY]

I have family that purchased Sheraton Flex from the developer and they don't have any issue getting high demand ski weeks at the 12-mo but those high demand ski weeks are virtually non-existent with SOs at 8 months. I can on occasion get random winter ski weeks at Steamboat with SOs at the 8-month mark, but it is hit or miss at best.

I haven’t had issues getting ski weeks at 8 months or sometimes less a SMV. I thought about Westin flex just for ski weeks at riverfront.

 

[controller1]

I haven’t had issues getting ski weeks at 8 months or sometimes less a SMV. I thought about Westin flex just for ski weeks at riverfront.

I believe you can get reservations most of the time at SMV.

I would warn you about buying Westin Flex primarily for ski weeks at Westin Riverfront. I had to be extremely flexible (no pun) this year when using Westin Flex for my July 2020 reservations at Riverfront. Remember, the entire resort consists of only 34 2-bedroom lockoffs. With my difficulty getting 2020 reservations right at the 12-month mark I would think it would be even more difficult during ski season.

 

[CPNY]

I believe you can get reservations most of the time at SMV.

I would warn you about buying Westin Flex primarily for ski weeks at Westin Riverfront. I had to be extremely flexible (no pun) this year when using Westin Flex for my July 2020 reservations at Riverfront. Remember, the entire resort consists of only 34 2-bedroom lockoffs. With my difficulty getting 2020 reservations right at the 12-month mark I would think it would be even more difficult during ski season.

Then Westin flex wouldn’t benefit me at all.

 

[skibummer]

I haven’t had issues getting ski weeks at 8 months or sometimes less a SMV. I thought about Westin flex just for ski weeks at riverfront.

I wasn't referring to ease of ski weeks at SMV. Out of the SMV, WRF, and Steamboat ski locations, SMV is the least coveted lodging location (and therefore more obtainable) as compared to Westin Riverfront or the Steamboat ski weeks, especially the HIGH demand weeks. Getting a ski week at SMV isn't the same as getting one at Westin Riverfront or at Steamboat, and my previous point was regarding the HIGH demand ski weeks (Christmas, New Years, MLK week, Presidents week, "Texas ski week") at the Steamboat location. Those HIGH demand weeks are non-existent at the 8-month mark at Steamboat with SOs, hence the necessity of Sheraton Flex weeks or the incredibly rare and expensive deeded week resale purchase. Random weeks in the winter outside of the HIGH demand weeks are obtainable at Steamboat, but you have to be flexible with dates and unit size and not need the HIGH demand weeks for your travel plans. The only reason I would buy resale Sheraton Flex is to have a high probability access (but no guarantee) to the HIGH demand ski weeks at Steamboat at the 12-month mark that I can't obtain otherwise with SOs at the 8-month mark.

 

[CPNY]

I wasn't referring to ease of ski weeks at SMV. Out of all the Vistana ski locations, SMV is the least coveted lodging location (and therefore more obtainable) as compared to Westin Riverfront or the Steamboat ski weeks, especially the HIGH demand weeks. Getting a ski week at SMV isn't the same as getting one at Westin Riverfront or at Steamboat, and my previous point was regarding the HIGH demand ski weeks (Christmas, New Years, MLK week, Presidents week, "Texas ski week") at the Steamboat location. Those HIGH demand weeks are non-existent at the 8-month mark at Steamboat with SOs, hence the necessity of Sheraton Flex weeks or the incredibly rare and expensive deeded week resale purchase. Random weeks in the winter outside of the HIGH demand weeks are obtainable at Steamboat, but you have to be flexible with dates and unit size and not need the HIGH demand weeks for your travel plans. The only reason I would buy resale Sheraton Flex is to have access to the HIGH demand ski weeks at Steamboat that I can't obtain otherwise with SOs at the 8-month mark.

That makes sense. I don’t travel during “kid” times, guess that’s why I can see availability. I guess I was under the impression ski weeks in general were hard to get. But yeah, holiday and school break weeks are prob non existent I would assume. I’ve looked for a deeded riverfront week resale and what I found was an expensive resale!

 

[skibummer]

That makes sense. I don’t travel during “kid” times, guess that’s why I can see availability. I guess I was under the impression ski weeks, in general, were hard to get. But yeah, holiday and school break weeks are prob non-existent I would assume. I’ve looked for a deeded riverfront week resale and what I found was an expensive resale!

Agreed. Additionally, the majority of Steamboat weeks were originally sold as a flex product so they have a good amount of Platinum plus ski weeks in the Sheraton Flex trust whereas WRF was a deeded week product that is now part of the new Westin Flex trust so my guess is it is full of Silver mud season weeks and summer weeks with very few Platinum plus ski weeks because who would trade in a deeded Platinum plus ski week (with additional money and much higher Westin Flex MFs) for access to a trust that may or (more likely) may not give them what they already own as a guaranteed week as a deeded owner. At Steamboat, only the original tower was sold as a deeded week product. The rest of Sheraton Steamboat and the hotel conversion (188 hotel rooms into 112 timeshares) in the west tower was all sold as a flex product.