New Marriott Rewards Property Categories and Travel Package Requirements effective Aug '18

[jtp1947]

@CalGalTraveler: Resale owners can get a 5 night package.

 

[NboroGirl]

To go up 1 size bedroom, the current points requirement is 5K per night, so to go from a standard studio size to 2BR, you are looking at 10K per night, for 5 nights, it will cost another 50K. We do not know how that point requirement for size upgrade will be post August 2018.

I know all that. My question was: Will Marriott allow me to use a certificate for a Category 5 night for a larger villa if I am willing to pay the difference in points? A similar but slightly different question is: Will Marriott allow me to use a certificate for a Category 5 night if I decide later I want to stay at a Category 6 hotel if I am willing to pay the difference in points?

My dilemma is: I don't know yet where I would use the hotel portion of a travel package, so I don't know which category to select. If I know that I can later upgrade a certificate with points, I will just choose a lower category and upgrade if/when I need to. (I hope that's clear.)

 

[Fasttr]

I know all that. My question was: Will Marriott allow me to use a certificate for a Category 5 night for a larger villa if I am willing to pay the difference in points? A similar but slightly different question is: Will Marriott allow me to use a certificate for a Category 5 night if I decide later I want to stay at a Category 6 hotel if I am willing to pay the difference in points?

My dilemma is: I don't know yet where I would use the hotel portion of a travel package, so I don't know which category to select. If I know that I can later upgrade a certificate with points, I will just choose a lower category and upgrade if/when I need to. (I hope that's clear.)

They have historically allowed you to move up or down in categories via taking or refunding the point difference that the package would have cost if you had purchased it in the first place.

We can only assume they will continue to allow this in the future.

 

[Superchief]

You will be able to book hotels at the current point requirement until August 1. However, most hotels don't release inventory until 330 days prior, and some release it later. Therefore, I would assume we will only be able to use current levels through about June 30, 2019.

Keep in mind that Marriott assigns weird point values to the hotel portion of the 5 night travel package. For example, my 5 night category 9 is assigned a 105k point value, not the 180k I would expect. I assume they would only return 105k to my account if I cancel it. If you plan to redeem a 5 night package now, I highly recommend using the hotel award level you think you would actually use.

 

[jpa2825]

So are we to assume that Peak and Off-Peak are irrelevant to Travel Packages?

For example, if I try to book the 7 nights from a Cat 6 travel package are all dates going to be available? Might they say "those dates are during a Peak period so it will take 70k additional MR Points to book those nights"? I'm pretty sure they're not going to say "those dates are during an Off-Peak period so we will deposit 70k MR Points if you book those nights". Might Peak periods simply be blacked out to redeem with travel package certificates?

 

[Steve Fatula]

So are we to assume that Peak and Off-Peak are irrelevant to Travel Packages?

For example, if I try to book the 7 nights from a Cat 6 travel package are all dates going to be available? Might they say "those dates are during a Peak period so it will take 70k additional MR Points to book those nights"? I'm pretty sure they're not going to say "those dates are during an Off-Peak period so we will deposit 70k MR Points if you book those nights". Might Peak periods simply be blacked out to redeem with travel package certificates?

Not sure you can assume anything. The reality is, no one here knows for sure until it is announced. Maybe they need peak, standard, and off peak travel packages.

 

[jpa2825]

Early Conclusions:

If you are fairly confident of a 5/7 night hotel stay you'll be making before ~JUN 30 2019, it makes sense to buy a current travel package and make the reservation (with the above instructions to attach the cert to the reservation). You'll get more miles and likely a better hotel than under the new travel packages they have announced. If your plans change and you have to cancel the hotel, you can hope for how that will be treated / extended.

If you feel lucky and have a current MR point level that will support it, buy a current travel package as an arbitrage against the future devaluation under the new system. Hope that they treat a pre-AUG 1 Cat X cert the same as a post-AUG 1 Cat X cert and book the hotel when you know your plans. Hope also that the past conduct on freely extending such certs past their 1 yr. termination continues if you need it.

 

[Superchief]

“We listened to the travel aspirations of our members and set our sights on unlocking the full potential of our loyalty programs,” said David Flueck, Senior Vice President of Global Loyalty, Marriott International."

I've worked in Marketing research for the past 40+ years for medium and large corporations in various industries. In the early years, we were always trying to identify ways to make things better for our customers/ consumers in order to have a competitive edge. That changed 10-15 years ago to : how do we fool customers to make them pay more for less, and call it 'an enhancement'. That is why I am skeptical every time a corporation communicates how they 'listened to the customer to enhance the program. If you notice, they emphasize that more hotels went down in points than up. However, most of the decreases were for Courtyards and lower end properties, while there were significant increases (not including 'peak') for Autograph and other FS premium brands, especially in prime locations.

 

[ACP]

With the new Travel Packages there now appears to only be two mileage selections 50,000 and 100,000 - do we know if this will be all that will be available or are they examples?
Also the number of points needed under the current Travel Package varies by different airlines with some airlines you get more miles than others whereas the information available lists all participating airlines with the same number of miles and points for all of them, so it's simpler but a lot more expensive. Is my understanding right?

Regarding Hotels - I've read all the threads on this topic and still not sure how to get the best value with an existing 7 night Cat 6 Hotel Certificate that I have in my account. To get the best value, would it be better to select a cat 6 hotel under the new list where the value of the points has gone up or one where the points that has gone down. Just can't get my head around which is the better value (Senior Moment), what would also be helpful is knowing is a hotel that was Category 8 but will be Cat 6 in August that I can wait until August to redeem.

Hope some knowledgable TUGGERS can shed some light

 

[Superchief]

The MVC redemption requirements have increased more than most other hotel chains. This should increase rental values because more MR members will be seeking other ways to stay at these family friendly resorts.

 

[markbernstein]

I got an email yesterday with links to all sorts of new (to me, anyway) information about the merged points programs, including a link to a database of new hotel points costs (https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change?nck=25729371&ck=23625489&lk=1000280117), and one to a spot where I could download a PDF on hotel/miles packages (https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf).

The good news is that there will still be hotel/miles packages. The bad news is that they're going to cost a lot more.

Here's my real-world example. My wife and I are planning to spend two weeks in Ireland in August of 2019, including a week in Dublin. The only Marriott-branded property in Dublin is the Shelbourne Dublin, a Renaissance hotel. Under the old program, the cost was 45,000 point per night, which meant that a package including a 7-night stay there and 100,000 miles (my preferred program is Delta Skymiles) would cost 370,000 Rewards points.

Under the new program, the Shelbourne is category 7, costing 60,000 points per night. (There's also a Westin Dublin, which is also category 7.) And a package for 7 nights there plus 100,000 miles now costs 570,000 points. So the cost for 100K miles has jumped from 100K to 210K Rewards points. (Do I remember correctly that a straight trade of points for mile is 3 points = 1 mile?)

Fortunately, we have enough points to cover this.

ADDENDUM: As I was researching and writing this, I found there's another hotel coming. The Aloft Dublin, a Starwood property, will be opening this November, and it's only category 4. That lowers the cost of the package to 330,000 points. (Which works out to 150K for the 7 nights - 25K per night with one night free - and 180K for the 100K miles.) Not too bad.

 

[lfarmwife1961]

I got an email yesterday with links to all sorts of new (to me, anyway) information about the merged points programs, including a link to a database of new hotel points costs (https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change?nck=25729371&ck=23625489&lk=1000280117), and one to a spot where I could download a PDF on hotel/miles packages (https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf).

The good news is that there will still be hotel/miles packages. The bad news is that they're going to cost a lot more.

Here's my real-world example. My wife and I are planning to spend two weeks in Ireland in August of 2019, including a week in Dublin. The only Marriott-branded property in Dublin is the Shelbourne Dublin, a Renaissance hotel. Under the old program, the cost was 45,000 point per night, which meant that a package including a 7-night stay there and 100,000 miles (my preferred program is Delta Skymiles) would cost 370,000 Rewards points.

Under the new program, the Shelbourne is category 7, costing 60,000 points per night. (There's also a Westin Dublin, which is also category 7.) And a package for 7 nights there plus 100,000 miles now costs 570,000 points. So the cost for 100K miles has jumped from 100K to 210K Rewards points. (Do I remember correctly that a straight trade of points for mile is 3 points = 1 mile?)

Fortunately, we have enough points to cover this.

ADDENDUM: As I was researching and writing this, I found there's another hotel coming. The Aloft Dublin, a Starwood property, will be opening this November, and it's only category 4. That lowers the cost of the package to 330,000 points. (Which works out to 150K for the 7 nights - 25K per night with one night free - and 180K for the 100K miles.) Not too bad.

We stayed at the Westin Dublin a few years ago. The hotel is beautiful and in a very good location, if that helps!

 

[mjm1]

I spoke with a rep today as I was helping my FIL redeem points for a 5 night package. I asked her and a supervisor about the points required for a 5 night package starting on or after Aug. 1 and they had no idea. I mentioned I had access to a points chart for 7 night stays, but they didn’t have any idea about that either. I guess we will just have to wait and see what is announced.

Best regards.

Mike

 

[WBP]

I've worked in Marketing research for the past 40+ years for medium and large corporations in various industries. In the early years, we were always trying to identify ways to make things better for our customers/ consumers in order to have a competitive edge. That changed 10-15 years ago to : how do we fool customers to make them pay more for less, and call it 'an enhancement'. That is why I am skeptical every time a corporation communicates how they 'listened to the customer to enhance the program. If you notice, they emphasize that more hotels went down in points than up. However, most of the decreases were for Courtyards and lower end properties, while there were significant increases (not including 'peak') for Autograph and other FS premium brands, especially in prime locations.

I think you are spot on. I walked away from Marriott International's roll-out of their new brand loyalty program, and said that Mr. Fluek is a consummate Spin Meister, and I thought to myself, where there's smoke, there's fire.

I think Mr. Flueck could sell snow to eskimos, without any difficulty.

For MVCI Owners, I think the value proposition of exchanging a timeshare week for Marriott Rewards points (do you remember when a Travel Package was 200,000 Marriott Rewards points, and included an 8 day Hertz rental car?) is a thing of the past (under the terms of the August 2018 update/revision of the Marriott Rewards program). Fortunately, we can still enjoy great vacations at our Home Resort, and at other Marriott Vacation Club resorts, by exchanging from one Marriott Vacation Club resort to another, via Interval International.

SEE this 45 minute video:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2095479260466710

 

[Safti]

New Marriott Travel Package dilemma. I have two five night Travel Packages in my account currently. One is a category 5 and the other is a category 7. I was planning to attach my category 7 TP at The Renaissance Tel Aviv after August. Now I see that the hotel has gone down from a Cat. 7 to a Cat. 5 after August. Still same number of points required per night (35K). Will I be able to attach my Cat. 5 TP instead of my Cat. 7 TP? That way I could save my Cat. 7 TP for a more valuable stay. So, in fact, this Marriott dilemma goes in the other direction than most people are posting. My category hotel is going down instead of up and I don't know which Travel Package to use.

 

[dioxide45]

New Marriott Travel Package dilemma. I have two five night Travel Packages in my account currently. One is a category 5 and the other is a category 7. I was planning to attach my category 7 TP at The Renaissance Tel Aviv after August. Now I see that the hotel has gone down from a Cat. 7 to a Cat. 5 after August. Still same number of points required per night (35K). Will I be able to attach my Cat. 5 TP instead of my Cat. 7 TP? That way I could save my Cat. 7 TP for a more valuable stay. So, in fact, this Marriott dilemma goes in the other direction than most people are posting. My category hotel is going down instead of up and I don't know which Travel Package to use.

I don't think Marriott has said or confirmed how they will map existing certificates that people have in their accounts. So it is anybody's guess.

 

[Safti]

I am writing to Marriott to ask that question

 

[Steve A]

Marriott is not your friend.

 

[ljmiii]

A question for anyone who has upgraded a 5 night hotel certificate. If you upgraded a cat 5 (25K/nt) to a cat 7 (35K/nt) did it cost 50,000 MRs? Or 40,000 MRs (because of 5th night 'free')? Or some other number? I'm looking to get a 5 night stay in Aug 2019 in what will be a 60K/nt cat 7 hotel and running the numbers. If the charge will be 5 * pt/nt difference then cat 7 seems to be the sweet spot. If an old cat 7 certificate buys a new cat 7 stay then it is obviously so.

cat 5 - 235K + (60K-25K/nt = 35K * 5 =) 175K = 410K
cat 6 - 250K + (60K-30K/nt = 30K * 5 =) 150K = 400K
cat 7 - 270K + (60K-35K/nt = 25K * 5 =) 125K = 395K
cat 8 - 300K + (60K-35K/nt = 20K * 5 =) 100K = 400K
cat 9 - 345K + (60K-45K/nt = 15K * 5 =) 75K = 420K

 

[dioxide45]

A question for anyone who has upgraded a 5 night hotel certificate. If you upgraded a cat 5 (25K/nt) to a cat 7 (35K/nt) did it cost 50,000 MRs? Or 40,000 MRs (because of 5th night 'free')? Or some other number? I'm looking to get a 5 night stay in Aug 2019 in what will be a 60K/nt cat 7 hotel and running the numbers. If the charge will be 5 * pt/nt difference then cat 7 seems to be the sweet spot. If an old cat 7 certificate buys a new cat 7 stay then it is obviously so.

cat 5 - 235K + (60K-25K/nt = 35K * 5 =) 175K = 410K
cat 6 - 250K + (60K-30K/nt = 30K * 5 =) 150K = 400K
cat 7 - 270K + (60K-35K/nt = 25K * 5 =) 125K = 395K
cat 8 - 300K + (60K-35K/nt = 20K * 5 =) 100K = 400K
cat 9 - 345K + (60K-45K/nt = 15K * 5 =) 75K = 420K

There is no fifth night free with the five night travel package. Technically you pay the difference in points between the two packages, but I have seen it reported that there is a glitch upgrading to a category 9 where it doesn't cost as much.

 

[Steve A]

I don't think Marriott has said or confirmed how they will map existing certificates that people have in their accounts. So it is anybody's guess.

A few years ago I ran into this problem, and they honored the initial reservation at the lower MR level. I’m looking to make a reservation in London at a level nine hotel for next May using a seven day travel package, but overall Marriot has done little to earn my trust so I’m hesitant until I get more information.

 

[dioxide45]

A question for anyone who has upgraded a 5 night hotel certificate. If you upgraded a cat 5 (25K/nt) to a cat 7 (35K/nt) did it cost 50,000 MRs? Or 40,000 MRs (because of 5th night 'free')? Or some other number? I'm looking to get a 5 night stay in Aug 2019 in what will be a 60K/nt cat 7 hotel and running the numbers. If the charge will be 5 * pt/nt difference then cat 7 seems to be the sweet spot. If an old cat 7 certificate buys a new cat 7 stay then it is obviously so.

cat 5 - 235K + (60K-25K/nt = 35K * 5 =) 175K = 410K
cat 6 - 250K + (60K-30K/nt = 30K * 5 =) 150K = 400K
cat 7 - 270K + (60K-35K/nt = 25K * 5 =) 125K = 395K
cat 8 - 300K + (60K-35K/nt = 20K * 5 =) 100K = 400K
cat 9 - 345K + (60K-45K/nt = 15K * 5 =) 75K = 420K

There is no fifth night free with the five night travel package. Technically you pay the difference in points between the two packages, but I have seen it reported that there is a glitch upgrading to a category 9 where it doesn't cost as much.

 

[ljmiii]

A few years ago I ran into this problem, and they honored the initial reservation at the lower MR level. I’m looking to make a reservation in London at a level nine hotel for next May using a seven day travel package, but overall Marriott has done little to earn my trust so I’m hesitant until I get more information.

I just got off the phone with a Marriott Rewards representative (while I bought my Air + Hotel packages). He confirmed that if you book before August 1st using a rewards certificate for a post-August stay Marriott would honor that certificate even if the point value of the hotel was increasing.

What he didn't know (and I don't think Marriott has made clear to anyone) is how I'll be able to use the certificates I just bought if I book after August 1st. Will an (old) category 7 certificate buy a new category 7 stay? Or will that category 7 35K pt/nt certificate buy a new category 5 35K pt/nt stay? He had no idea.

 

[dioxide45]

A few years ago I ran into this problem, and they honored the initial reservation at the lower MR level. I’m looking to make a reservation in London at a level nine hotel for next May using a seven day travel package, but overall Marriot has done little to earn my trust so I’m hesitant until I get more information.

As long as you make the reservation now and attach the certificate, they will honor it. How they handle the existing certificates after 8/1 is the question.

 

[kds4]

“We listened to the travel aspirations of our members and set our sights on unlocking the full (corporate revenue) potential of our loyalty programs,” said David Flueck, Senior Vice President of Global Loyalty, Marriott International."