Marriott Vacations Worldwide to Acquire ILG to Create a Leading Global Provider of Premier Vacation

[blondietink]

The problem is not how much SOs a resort is worth but where is your home resort. At 8 months, it is nearly impossible to book Kaanapali with SOs especially in high seasons or with the best views. So the point value is almost irrelevant. I suspect any Orlando resort would not be worth much in DC Points. Have you been able to book a 1 br at Westin Kaanapali at 8 months with SVV Bella? If so, what season, what view type, what room size, how often and for how long?

We have been able to book Ka-anapali North twice now at 8 months out with Options from SVV St. Augustine and extended it to 11 days in a one bedroom. Did the same thing at Princeville.

 

[TravelTime]

We pay about $1300 in MFs for our SVV prime 2BR. Per the MF database, the MF on a WKORVN 2BR is $2500. When you take the 81,000 from the SVV Prime to stay in a 1BR in Hawaii, it seems that you are probably paying close to the same in MFs as an owner.

Based on what you said above, the good news is that owning WKOVRN 2 br Ocean Front is not a rip off in MFs.

 

[DannyTS]

Will the mandatory status be challenged after the MVC takover of ILG?
Some said that the mandatory status is shaky because it is not in the deed. I challenge that idea, the original deeds do reference the Declaration of Condominium .

And the CC&Rs is pretty clear:
SVV Bella on the Orange County Florida Comptrollers website. The Starwood Vacation Club Resort Affiliation Agreement

Page 91:

III. Membership in the Network

A purchaser of a Vacation Ownership Interest in a Club Resort automatically is enrolled in the Network as a Network Member at the time that the Network Member acquires the Network Member's Vacation Ownership Interest. (…) Membership in the Network is granted to all purchasers of Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interests. (…) If the Network Member no longer owns a Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest, the person no longer will be a Network Member and the new owner of that Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest automatically will become the Network Member.


There are other paragraphs that would create a lot of legal and PR problems for them if they tried to kick out mandatory resale owners from the club.


So to me it looks rock solid. Please do not forget, if possible Vistana would have changed it a very long time ago. Disclosure, i own both mandatory and voluntary weeks.

 

[Maui_ed]

Compelling arguments. Thanks for sharing. I am sure this topic will generate lots of discussion on both sides.

 

[SunnyVI]

I believe they’re going to keep program rules in place and allow resale owners to become owners of the integrated system with a minimum enrollment or purchase. I own both and when Marriott launched its points program in 2010, they had a brief period at the beginning where a resale owner could pay like $1500 and have all developer benefits added. Not bad if you ask me. The integration will take at least a year after closing if not longer in my opinion.

 

[Helios]

Disclosure, i own both mandatory and voluntary weeks.

I do too: a mix of developer, retroed, and mandatory (not retroed) and even a MVC post 6/10 week (and a lonely HGVC week in HI not related to this topic but why not throw in the list). I am optimistic about the takeover. My worry is that the doc you posted referenced a club that can be history depending on what happens. So, if the club as we know it now is dissolved and our mandatory units can be converted to DC, does that document hold any water?

 

[Helios]

I believe they’re going to keep program rules in place and allow resale owners to become owners of the integrated system with a minimum enrollment or purchase. I own both and when Marriott launched its points program in 2010, they had a brief period at the beginning where a resale owner could pay like $1500 and have all developer benefits added. Not bad if you ask me. The integration will take at least a year after closing if not longer in my opinion.

Something like this would be ideal IMO.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Agree with @SunnyVI.

I predict that they will keep mandatory status and staroptions program in the short to mid-term.

They will likely pursue an overlay to enroll in a Super DC program. However, doing so could indirectly devalue the benefits of the StarOption program. For example if the most desirable inventory has been enrolled in the DC program, there may only be limited availability for SO trades. At the extreme, all that will remain will be silver or mud weeks in the non-view rooms at the 'worst' locations. It becomes irrelevant over many many years.

For phase I, I believe they will offer the largest incentives for the most demanded Vistana properties regardless of mandatory/non-mandatory (e.g. Nanea/WKORV/WSJ/Harborside/ski weeks). They will also grandfather developer and resale (by re-qualifying them) at the most demanded resorts if they enroll in the first phase of Super DC. Why should they care - they need the inventory to attract new buyers and upsell Marriott DC owners to the Super DC; these were not Marriott developer sales.

If they differentiate resale, then I envision a second amnesty re-qualifying incentive if they don't get enough developer weeks into the Super DC system in round 1.

What they will do at other properties will be similar but will have a lower incentive for enrollment.

They could also incent owners to give up their mandatory SO status by giving incentives to enroll in Super DC. FWIW I would see this as a deal-breaker unless it is huge. I also am not sure how successful this will be because it is a stick - people don't like change and they don't like to give up something - even if it has minimal value.

 

[DannyTS]

My worry is that the doc you posted referenced a club that can be history depending on what happens. So, if the club as we know it now is dissolved and our mandatory units can be converted to DC, does that document hold any water?

if the current club is swallowed by DC then DC is the new club for mandatory. IMHO MVC will have to have a sweeter deal for mandatory resort weeks. Again, I own both mandatory and voluntary so i am very curious how this is going to evolve. I am actually very optimistic.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[dioxide45]

Will the mandatory status be challenged after the MVC takover of ILG?
Some said that the mandatory status is shaky because it is not in the deed. I challenge that idea, the original deeds do reference the Declaration of Condominium .

View attachment 6360


And the CC&Rs is pretty clear:
SVV Bella on the Orange County Florida Comptrollers website. The Starwood Vacation Club Resort Affiliation Agreement

Page 91:

III. Membership in the Network

A purchaser of a Vacation Ownership Interest in a Club Resort automatically is enrolled in the Network as a Network Member at the time that the Network Member acquires the Network Member's Vacation Ownership Interest. (…) Membership in the Network is granted to all purchasers of Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interests. (…) If the Network Member no longer owns a Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest, the person no longer will be a Network Member and the new owner of that Club Resort Vacation Ownership Interest automatically will become the Network Member.


There are other paragraphs that would create a lot of legal and PR problems for them if they tried to kick out mandatory resale owners from the club.


So to me it looks rock solid. Please do not forget, if possible Vistana would have changed it a very long time ago. Disclosure, i own both mandatory and voluntary weeks.

I would agree that it is a deeded right, as long as the Network exists. It it is possible that they kick out all of the mandatory resorts from the network and sell management rights to another developer, but I seriously doubt they will do that.

 

[dioxide45]

I do too: a mix of developer, retroed, and mandatory (not retroed) and even a MVC post 6/10 week (and a lonely HGVC week in HI not rested to this topic but why not throw in the list). I am optimistic about the takeover. My worry is that the doc you posted referenced a club that can be history depending on what happens. So, if the club as we know it now is dissolved and our mandatory units can be converted to DC, does that document hold any water?

They would be on shaky ground to say they are eliminating the VSN program and then put the properties in DC. It would be a good argument to make that DC is now the new Network as referenced in the CCRs.

 

[bizaro86]

Agree with @SunnyVI.

I predict that they will keep mandatory status and staroptions program in the short to mid-term.

They will likely pursue an overlay to enroll in a Super DC program. However, doing so could indirectly devalue the benefits of the StarOption program. For example if the most desirable inventory has been enrolled in the DC program, there may only be limited availability for SO trades. At the extreme, all that will remain will be silver or mud weeks in the non-view rooms at the 'worst' locations. It becomes irrelevant over many many years.

For phase I, I believe they will offer the largest incentives for the most demanded Vistana properties regardless of mandatory/non-mandatory (e.g. Nanea/WKORV/WSJ/Harborside/ski weeks). They will also grandfather developer and resale (by re-qualifying them) at the most demanded resorts if they enroll in the first phase of Super DC. Why should they care - they need the inventory to attract new buyers and upsell Marriott DC owners to the Super DC; these were not Marriott developer sales.

If they differentiate resale, then I envision a second amnesty re-qualifying incentive if they don't get enough developer weeks into the Super DC system in round 1.

What they will do at other properties will be similar but will have a lower incentive for enrollment.

They could also incent owners to give up their mandatory SO status by giving incentives to enroll in Super DC. FWIW I would see this as a deal-breaker unless it is huge. I also am not sure how successful this will be because it is a stick - people don't like change and they don't like to give up something - even if it has minimal value.

I could see them only offering the super DC for converting WKV/SVV deeds to the respective flex trust. While those deeds would still be mandatory, the flex ownerships are voluntary so it wouldn't really matter. If they did this at low cost and offered marriott/Hyatt access they'd get lots of takers I bet.

 

[dioxide45]

Agree with @SunnyVI.

I predict that they will keep mandatory status and staroptions program in the short to mid-term.

They will likely pursue an overlay to enroll in a Super DC program. However, doing so could indirectly devalue the benefits of the StarOption program. For example if the most desirable inventory has been enrolled in the DC program, there may only be limited availability for SO trades. At the extreme, all that will remain will be silver or mud weeks in the non-view rooms at the 'worst' locations. It becomes irrelevant over many many years.

For phase I, I believe they will offer the largest incentives for the most demanded Vistana properties regardless of mandatory/non-mandatory (e.g. Nanea/WKORV/WSJ/Harborside/ski weeks). They will also grandfather developer and resale (by re-qualifying them) at the most demanded resorts if they enroll in the first phase of Super DC. Why should they care - they need the inventory to attract new buyers and upsell Marriott DC owners to the Super DC; these were not Marriott developer sales.

If they differentiate resale, then I envision a second amnesty re-qualifying incentive if they don't get enough developer weeks into the Super DC system in round 1.

What they will do at other properties will be similar but will have a lower incentive for enrollment.

They could also incent owners to give up their mandatory SO status by giving incentives to enroll in Super DC. FWIW I would see this as a deal-breaker unless it is huge. I also am not sure how successful this will be because it is a stick - people don't like change and they don't like to give up something - even if it has minimal value.

You can't really give up your mandatory ownership status, it is mandatory. They could offer enrollment for those at voluntary resorts (even those that bought direct) to enroll and give up their membership in VSN for membership in DC. They go from having a VSN fee of $145 (+$50 for additional week) for a new DC annual fee of $195+. Those people will no longer have the ability to convert to StarOptions at 8 months. You do have to elect DC points by September 30th of the year prior to use year (later dates for higher DC ownership status). If you don't elect, your only options are home resort usage or II exchange. I think that would be a tough sell. You could also opt to enroll in DC and keep VSN membership, but you would have to pay two annual fees, one for VSN and the other for DC. This would be required of mandatory owners since they can't opt out of VSN.

I see them simply putting DC in as an overlay on the deeded weeks. You can still use your home resort week, use StarOptions or convert to DC points. If you convert to DC points, you can no longer use your home resort week or StarOptions. Your only option is an exchange using DC points. This would be the best of both worlds for everyone. For the foreseeable future there would still be plenty of inventory in the StarOption pool and those that opt to enroll in DC would have the added option of using DC points across all properties.

I really don't see them offering a "Super DC". It is possible to use as a potential selling point. But I like the idea of a single streamlined system. Vistana went the route of multiple trusts where Marriott has a single simple trust.

 

[GregT]

It is interesting that the Marriott press releases specifically called out St. John and the Mexico properties, but was silent on Harborside. I suspect that it is because there is significant unsold inventory at these properties that could be placed in the Marriott Trust.

I agree with Dioxide and that VSN will remain intact and that Marriott will offer an overlay that permits Starwood owners to enroll their weeks (for a fee) and get Marriott Elected Points to use to exchange to Marriott properties. I believe that unsold inventory at St. John and the Mexico properties (and others) will be placed into the Trust.

I don't think there will be a blanket 40:1 or 30:1 exchange, but I think that is the right range. I believe Marriott will (correctly) place premiums on certain properties, as they did with their own properties.

Accordingly, I would propose the following point values (in the Marriott system), based upon my opinion of how Marriott valued it's own portfolio.

WKORV OF - 7,500 points (consistent with Maui Ocean Club -- edited: MOC new towers)
WKORV OV - 6,000 points
WKORV IV - 5,000 points
WPORV - 4,500 points
Harborside Platinum - 6,000 points
WSJ 3BR Platinum - 6,000 points
WSJ 2BR Platinum - 4,000 points (consistent with Frenchman's Cove)
WSJ 1BR Platinum - 3,000 points
WSJ Studio Platinum - 2,000 points
SVV 2BR Platinum - 2,000 points
SVV 1BR Platinum - 1,000 points
WDW 2BR Platinum - 3,500 points (consistent with Shadow Ridge)

These are the properties that I track most in Starwood system -- my opinion is that Marriott overweighted the Hawaii properties because they need them available for exchanges, and underweighted everything else because they needed customers to buy points. The same will apply, IMO, to Starwood weeks. I think Marriott will want those owners to buy points, and will give them a good base of points, but not enough to widely exploit the system. Plus, they know that many owners can already exchange with points to other Starwood properties, so there is a built-in "competitor" to Marriott point systems, so that is a consideration.

Finally, I think Marriott will adjust the seasons, and fix some errors -- like Harborside in the summer will be at a higher point value than currently attributable with StarOptions. And voluntary resale properties (that close prior to the merger) will finally have a point value.

It's a fascinating consideration. I thought about buying a WPORV (because I love that property) and I believe it will be eligible for enrollment -- but I can't see Marriott assigning more points to it then they did their own properties (Waiohai/Kauai Lagoons in particular) and the MFs are still too much of a hurdle for a non-core property for me. And like Dioxide, I think StarOptions will be viable for the medium term and I don't need to own WPORV to access it. Interesting stuff.

Best,

Greg

Edited: I clarified that voluntary properties need to close prior to the merger to be eligible for enrollment. I believe those post-merger resales will be blocked, like they are with Marriott.

 

[Helios]

It is interesting that the Marriott press releases specifically called out St. John and the Mexico properties, but was silent on Harborside. I suspect that it is because there is significant unsold inventory at these properties that could be placed in the Marriott Trust.

I agree with Dioxide and that VSN will remain intact and that Marriott will offer an overlay that permits Starwood owners to enroll their weeks (for a fee) and get Marriott Elected Points to use to exchange to Marriott properties. I believe that unsold inventory at St. John and the Mexico properties (and others) will be placed into the Trust.

I don't think there will be a blanket 40:1 or 30:1 exchange, but I think that is the right range. I believe Marriott will (correctly) place premiums on certain properties, as they did with their own properties.

Accordingly, I would propose the following point values (in the Marriott system), based upon my opinion of how Marriott valued it's own portfolio.

WKORV OF - 7,500 points (consistent with Maui Ocean Club)
WKORV OV - 6,000 points
WKORV IV - 5,000 points
WPORV - 4,500 points
Harborside Platinum - 6,000 points
WSJ 3BR Platinum - 6,000 points
WSJ 2BR Platinum - 4,000 points (consistent with Frenchman's Cove)
WSJ 1BR Platinum - 3,000 points
WSJ Studio Platinum - 2,000 points
SVV 2BR Platinum - 2,000 points
SVV 1BR Platinum - 1,000 points
WDW 2BR Platinum - 3,500 points (consistent with Shadow Ridge)

These are the properties that I track most in Starwood system -- my opinion is that Marriott overweighted the Hawaii properties because they need them available for exchanges, and underweighted everything else because they needed customers to buy points. The same will apply, IMO, to Starwood weeks. I think Marriott will want those owners to buy points, and will give them a good base of points, but not enough to widely exploit the system. Plus, they know that many owners can already exchange with points to other Starwood properties, so there is a built-in "competitor" to Marriott point systems, so that is a consideration.

Finally, I think Marriott will adjust the seasons, and fix some errors -- like Harborside in the summer will be at a higher point value than currently attributable with StarOptions. And voluntary resale properties will finally have a point value.

It's a fascinating consideration. I thought about buying a WPORV (because I love that property) and I believe it will be eligible for enrollment -- but I can't see Marriott assigning more points to it then they did their own properties (Waiohai/Kauai Lagoons in particular) and the MFs are still too much of a hurdle for a non-core property for me. And like Dioxide, I think StarOptions will be viable for the medium term and I don't need to own WPORV to access it. Interesting stuff.

Best,

Greg

I’ll propose a motion to name Greg an official advisor to MVC.

How many points do you think a Plat Pool Villa would get?

 

[dioxide45]

WKORV OF - 7,500 points (consistent with Maui Ocean Club)
WKORV OV - 6,500 points
WKORV IV - 5,000 points
WPORV - 4,500 points
Harborside - 6,000 points
WSJ 3BR Platinum - 6,000 points
WSJ 2BR Platinum - 4,000 points (consistent with Frenchman's Cove)
WSJ 1BR Platinum - 3,000 points
WSJ Studio Platinum - 2,000 points
SVV 2BR Platinum - 2,000 points
SVV 1BR Platinum - 1,000 points
WDW 2BR Platinum - 3,500 points (consistent with Shadow Ridge)

Greg, I think some of these numbers might be a little off if you compare them to Marriott's current offerings at similar resorts. I am looking at Steven's chart.

WKORV OF - 7,500 6450 points (consistent with Maui Ocean Club)
WKORV OV - 6,500 5825 points
WKORV IV - 5,000 points - Not referenced in Steven's chart.
WPORV - 4,500 points
Harborside - 6,000 points
WSJ 3BR Platinum - 6,000 5025 points
WSJ 2BR Platinum - 4,000 3650 points (consistent with Frenchman's Cove)
WSJ 1BR Platinum - 3,000 points
WSJ Studio Platinum - 2,000 points
SVV 2BR Platinum - 2,000 2775 points - This is inline with Platinum 2BR at Grande Vista
SVV 1BR Platinum - 1,000 1850 points - This is inline with Platinum 1BR at Grande Vista
WDW 2BR Platinum - 3,500 3075 points (consistent with Shadow Ridge)

 

[GregT]

I’ll propose a motion to name Greg an official advisor to MVC.

How many points do you think a Plat Pool Villa would get?

Can I second the motion?

I think there should be a point premium for the pool villa -- guessing at 500 points? They may call it a Deluxe unit to differentiate it from others and give it the extra points -- they did this at Lakeshore Reserve and Shadow Ridge Enclaves.

Best,

Greg

 

[vacation dreaming]

Star Options allow the owner to lock off the property and use one side for home reservation while taking star options for the other side. I use this often and don't believe that is an option with Marriott DC.

 

[GregT]

Greg, I think some of these numbers might be a little off if you compare them to Marriott's current offerings at similar resorts. I am looking at Steven's chart.

WKORV OF - 7,500 6450 points (consistent with Maui Ocean Club)
WKORV OV - 6,500 5825 points
WKORV IV - 5,000 points - Not referenced in Steven's chart.
WPORV - 4,500 points
Harborside - 6,000 points
WSJ 3BR Platinum - 6,000 5025 points
WSJ 2BR Platinum - 4,000 3650 points (consistent with Frenchman's Cove)
WSJ 1BR Platinum - 3,000 points
WSJ Studio Platinum - 2,000 points
SVV 2BR Platinum - 2,000 2775 points - This is inline with Platinum 2BR at Grande Vista
SVV 1BR Platinum - 1,000 1850 points - This is inline with Platinum 1BR at Grande Vista
WDW 2BR Platinum - 3,500 3075 points (consistent with Shadow Ridge)

Dioxide, good comments here -- my only adjustment would be that I think WKORV is more in line with Lahaina/Napili than the original MOC, and I will edit and clarify my original note. I believe a 2BR OF at MM1 redeems at 7,650 points.

That's interesting about Grande Vista 1BR -- if so, we should all be looking hard at the 1BR SVV units, if they translate to anything close to 1,850 points. Wow!

Best,

Greg

 

[DannyTS]

It is interesting that the Marriott press releases specifically called out St. John and the Mexico properties, but was silent on Harborside. I suspect that it is because there is significant unsold inventory at these properties that could be placed in the Marriott Trust.

I agree with Dioxide and that VSN will remain intact and that Marriott will offer an overlay that permits Starwood owners to enroll their weeks (for a fee) and get Marriott Elected Points to use to exchange to Marriott properties. I believe that unsold inventory at St. John and the Mexico properties (and others) will be placed into the Trust.

I don't think there will be a blanket 40:1 or 30:1 exchange, but I think that is the right range. I believe Marriott will (correctly) place premiums on certain properties, as they did with their own properties.

Accordingly, I would propose the following point values (in the Marriott system), based upon my opinion of how Marriott valued it's own portfolio.

WKORV OF - 7,500 points (consistent with Maui Ocean Club)
WKORV OV - 6,000 points
WKORV IV - 5,000 points
WPORV - 4,500 points
Harborside Platinum - 6,000 points
WSJ 3BR Platinum - 6,000 points
WSJ 2BR Platinum - 4,000 points (consistent with Frenchman's Cove)
WSJ 1BR Platinum - 3,000 points
WSJ Studio Platinum - 2,000 points
SVV 2BR Platinum - 2,000 points
SVV 1BR Platinum - 1,000 points
WDW 2BR Platinum - 3,500 points (consistent with Shadow Ridge)

These are the properties that I track most in Starwood system -- my opinion is that Marriott overweighted the Hawaii properties because they need them available for exchanges, and underweighted everything else because they needed customers to buy points. The same will apply, IMO, to Starwood weeks. I think Marriott will want those owners to buy points, and will give them a good base of points, but not enough to widely exploit the system. Plus, they know that many owners can already exchange with points to other Starwood properties, so there is a built-in "competitor" to Marriott point systems, so that is a consideration.

Finally, I think Marriott will adjust the seasons, and fix some errors -- like Harborside in the summer will be at a higher point value than currently attributable with StarOptions. And voluntary resale properties will finally have a point value.

It's a fascinating consideration. I thought about buying a WPORV (because I love that property) and I believe it will be eligible for enrollment -- but I can't see Marriott assigning more points to it then they did their own properties (Waiohai/Kauai Lagoons in particular) and the MFs are still too much of a hurdle for a non-core property for me. And like Dioxide, I think StarOptions will be viable for the medium term and I don't need to own WPORV to access it. Interesting stuff.

Best,

Greg

i believe that the points you are suggesting mean selling ourselves short considering that Marriott in Hawaii OF ranges between 7 to 10 k and more for certain weeks. It looks to me that a range of 2800-3000 Bella platinum to 9000 OF Hawaii makes more sense for 2 bdr. Also guys, be certain that Marriott monitors these forums to take the pulse of the market. Please do not give the impression that people will accept whatever offered. it is not inconceivable that some posts will be written by their employees to test the reaction

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[DannyTS]

and if i may add, in the papers we are going to sign for the new system, for the mandatory resorts the language should be clear that they stay mandatory. we do not want any confusion and arbitrary interpretation in the future, better to have this in writing upfront

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@GregT Great chart!

Does MOC/Towers have more variation in seasons? If so, they will also need to figure out how to align platinum season at WKORV and WKORVN with MOC/Towers platinum. VSE runs 1 - 50 weeks on Maui.

 

[DannyTS]

@GregT Great chart!

Does MOC/Towers have more variation in seasons? If so, they will also need to figure out how to align platinum season at WKORV and WKORVN with MOC/Towers platinum. VSE runs 1 - 50 weeks on Maui.

excluding 51-52, depending on the week there is an approx 26% variation in points at the Marriott resorts in Hawaii (for the same resort i mean). Please see attached.

Do not forget, Marriott is a big company and they will keep it simple. The system the owners have been used to, have bought into (and is validated by the market) is the SO system. I agree that MVC may offer some incentives in some cases (free enrollment?) but they will avoid litigious situations, so a system based on conversion of SOs is the most likely.

Any other conversion may lead to endless (and arbitrary) discussions, everyone claiming that his property deserves more. It is hard to claim that you do not like the SO chart since you have entered into an agreement based on that chart and have accepted it for 10-15 years. Do not forget that 15 years ago for example, the developer sold the weeks of all these resort not based on what we think now about the rental market etc but with the promise of you being able to use your own week or to exchange to another Vistana resort based on that chart.

 

[GregT]

i believe that the points you are suggesting mean selling ourselves short considering that Marriott in Hawaii OF ranges between 7 to 10 k and more for certain weeks. It looks to me that a range of 2800-3000 Bella platinum to 9000 OF Hawaii makes more sense for 2 bdr. Also guys, be certain that Marriott monitors these forums to take the pulse of the market. Please do not give the impression that people will accept whatever offered. it is not inconceivable that some posts will be written by their employees to test the reaction

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Marriott gives ~7,700 Points to an owner redeeming a 2BR OF week for Points in the new towers. It costs 8,650 Points to Reserve that room. I get 10,225 for prime summer weeks in my 3BRs. Those 3Br weeks cost 11,800 to reserve and the delta is what we call the skim.

It’s hard for me to see Marriott awarding more points for WKORV than they do for their own developed properties (which were brand new when the system came out), but maybe they will.

I also believe Marriott will view it as they are doing Starwood owners a favor by allowing them to enroll their weeks - and Marriott doesn’t have to do that.

I believe that it is in Marriott self-interest to do so, but they want all the WKORV/WPORV/WLR/HRA weeks to be enrolled and available, and they don’t care about SVV, where there is already massive capacity in Orlando —- and Marriott can also fill an SVV reservation from II.

Marriott considers themselves to be a very fair organization (and with the exception of the skim, I agree), and I don’t think they will block the enrollment of the SVV/similar stuff that they may not want or need, they just won’t give a bunch of points for them.

I expect an inconsistency where StarOptions are the better value than Marriott DC Points because of the flatness of the StarOptions charts, but in the long term, it’s hard to predict how available the inventory will be to StarOptions. Why would a summer HRA owner accept 95K StarOptions if they could get 6,000 DC points (my estimate only).

We will see .... interesting stuff.

Best,

Greg

 

[DannyTS]

I also believe Marriott will view it as they are doing Starwood owners a favor by allowing them to enroll their weeks - and Marriott doesn’t have to do that.



Greg

I respectfully disagree. They need us as much as we need them. Their growth is based on new sales and new sales are based on how successful they are in projecting the image of the 100's upscale resorts in the mind of the prospect. Trust me, they care less about how fair the system is (not that they want it to be unfair), they will just want this incorporation to be done smoothly and fast so they can go back to executing the big plan. Again, we should not start this partnership from the position of the poor cousins that need help. As a matter of fact, i think that we were doing just fine and this new system does not come without potential headaches (that I do not actually need) despite the potentially added flexibility. In the end they are the ones who are going to add billions to their bottom line (corporately) and millions personally (the executives) if this is well implemented.

Watch MVC's CEO Steve Weisz on Cramer, it is all about new sales