Maui Ocean Club As Point Generator?

[sdtugger]

We own an enrolled MOC 2 bedroom. We always use it and don't anticipate ever turning it in for DVC points. However, I am considering whether it makes sense to purchase another MOC 2 bedroom for use and then turn the current MOC 2 bedroom into a point generator? Looking just at maintenance fees, this would result in approximately $.40 per point if we converted to DVC points.

There could be times when we would use both MOC units for direct reservations, although we might end up renting out a studio unit here are there as we may not need both full units.

My thinking is that this potential plan would give me a MOC unit for use or for conversion to DVC points and that the maintenance fee for the points would be cheaper than other alternatives.

I'd appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[GaryDouglas]

Of course you have the cost of the new unit and it’s maint fees to put into the equation, but it would be a realitively cheaper way to generate DC points outside of that. ..And when you want to stay two weeks at MOC instead of just one, you get to make reservations at 13 months. Also gives you the option of being there 4 weeks a year. Have I talked you into it yet?

 

[jme]

We own an enrolled MOC 2 bedroom. We always use it and don't anticipate ever turning it in for DVC points. However, I am considering whether it makes sense to purchase another MOC 2 bedroom for use and then turn the current MOC 2 bedroom into a point generator? Looking just at maintenance fees, this would result in approximately $.40 per point if we converted to DVC points.

There could be times when we would use both MOC units for direct reservations, although we might end up renting out a studio unit here are there as we may not need both full units.

My thinking is that this potential plan would give me a MOC unit for use or for conversion to DVC points and that the maintenance fee for the points would be cheaper than other alternatives.
I'd appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

That would be a very expensive way to do it.

I would rather see you buy that second MOC week RESALE on open market, rent it out for at least $3000 (quite possibly more),
and use that cash to RENT points @ 50-55 cents a point.

Then you'd have 6000 points to use, enough to do something nice..... providing one great trip or 2-3 smaller ones.

THAT would be the best point generator, and by far the cheapest.

 

[GregT]

Sdtugger,

Assuming you are talking about buying (resale) the exact week you already own, then yes this can be a good way to get a points generator. This topic has come up before and we’ve supported it - making your new week basically your week for personal use and then your old week that is enrolled now can be redeemed for points/whatever you choose.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Best,

Greg

 

[sdtugger]

Sorry I wasn’t clear before. Yes, I would buy a new week resale. I would use the new week for my personal stays or potentially rent it out, although we’ve never done that before. We always use our week every year. So, my question is whether I am missing some important consideration? My thinking is that purchasing a new resale week to use is the cheapest way for me to generate points using the old enrolled week. It seems like the lowest purchase price and maintenance fee for that many points.

 

[Fasttr]

Sorry I wasn’t clear before. Yes, I would buy a new week resale. I would use the new week for my personal stays or potentially rent it out, although we’ve never done that before. We always use our week every year. So, my question is whether I am missing some important consideration? My thinking is that purchasing a new resale week to use is the cheapest way for me to generate points using the old enrolled week. It seems like the lowest purchase price and maintenance fee for that many points.

Since your current MOC week is already enrolled, which is your foot in the door of the DC program, with a DC account that can already accept points, the far cheaper way is to not buy anything, just rent the points that you want/need only in the years that you want/need them. Easy peasy without any upfront costs and no ongoing MF burden if and when your needs change.

 

[sdtugger]

That would be a very expensive way to do it.

I would rather see you buy that second MOC week RESALE on open market, rent it out for at least $3000 (quite possibly more),
and use that cash to RENT points @ 50-55 cents a point.

Then you'd have 6000 points to use, enough to do something nice..... providing one great trip or 2-3 smaller ones.

THAT would be the best point generator, and by far the cheapest.

Sorry, I am not following your thinking here. I am considering using my existing enrolled unit with a maintenance fee of approximately $2300 that would generate 5850 points. That would generate points at less than $.40 per point. I would replace my enrolled unit for personal use with a second MOC unit purchased resale. Wouldn’t that be cheaper and easier than renting my new week and then using that money to rent points?

 

[sdtugger]

Since your current MOC week is already enrolled, which is your foot in the door of the DC program, with a DC account that can already accept points, the far cheaper way is to not buy anything, just rent the points that you want/need only in the years that you want/need them. Easy peasy without any upfront costs and no ongoing MF burden if and when your needs change.

That is what I have been doing thus far. However, the cost to rent DC points is now hovering around $.65 per point. That got me thinking I could generate my own points for $.40 per point. Plus I would have the option to use the week at MOC if I want to. Of course, the downside is the purchase price of the new resale week. However, assuming that the new week would retain value, that may not be a significant cost in the long run. Of course, that may not be a valid assumption. But, the difference between $.65 per point and $.40 per point for 5850 points is $1462.50 each year. That could add up to the purchase price over a few years.

 

[Fasttr]

That is what I have been doing thus far. However, the cost to rent DC points is now hovering around $.65 per point. That got me thinking I could generate my own points for $.40 per point. Plus I would have the option to use the week at MOC if I want to. Of course, the downside is the purchase price of the new resale week. However, assuming that the new week would retain value, that may not be a significant cost in the long run. Of course, that may not be a valid assumption. But, the difference between $.65 per point and $.40 per point for 5850 points is $1462.50 each year. That could add up to the purchase price over a few years.

Valid points. I think you need to determine how many points, on average, you need annually. Take that average annual points need multiplied by $0.25 (the delta between enrolled and rented per point price), and then see how many years that annual outlay would take you to payoff a purchased MOC and see if that makes financial sense to you. You mentioned not needing a full 2 bedroom at times. Perhaps some years, you would not need points at all. I think you just need (averaging the highs and lows) to really nail down your average annual points need and do the math from there.

Just remember, once you buy the extra week, those MF's are there, year in and year out, even if its a year one of your kids gets married, there is a death in the family, you or your spouse needs surgery, you decide to take a European vacation or any other myriad of life events that may prevent you from using your pre-spent MVC vacation dollars that year. If you are renting, you just don't rent points that year. All things to consider.

 

[GregT]

What unit size and view do you already one (and are happy to use)?

Best,

Greg

 

[sdtugger]

Valid points. I think you need to determine how many points, on average, you need annually. Take that average annual points need multiplied by $0.25 (the delta between enrolled and rented per point price), and then see how many years that annual outlay would take you to payoff a purchased MOC and see if that makes financial sense to you. You mentioned not needing a full 2 bedroom at times. Perhaps some years, you would not need points at all. I think you just need (averaging the highs and lows) to really nail down your average annual points need and do the math from there.

Just remember, once you buy the extra week, those MF's are there, year in and year out, even if its a year one of your kids gets married, there is a death in the family, you or your husband needs surgery, you decide to take a European vacation or any other myriad of life events that may prevent you from using your pre-spent MVC vacation dollars that year. If you are renting, you just don't rent points that year. All things to consider.

Great points. I’ve actually been trying to calculate how many points we could/would use each year. It is somewhat difficult because we haven’t had a large stock of points from which to draw. We haven’t been using 5850 points each year. But, I believe there would be years when we would use that many points. There would also probably be years where we would reserve and use the unit at MOC. I’m trying to realistically figure out how all that would work out. Worst case, I believe that we could rent out the week for more than maintenance fees. I suppose that we could also rent out points for more than our cost. But, The savings in the rental cost ($.65 versus $.40) plus the use at MOC are motivating me to consider this option. If we were to use 5850 points each year we’d pay for the unit in less than 10 years and it would probably still be worth a significant portion of what we paid for it.

 

[sdtugger]

What unit size and view do you already one (and are happy to use)?

Best,

Greg

I own 2 bedroom ocean view annual.

 

[GregT]

Well, although I love renting points as much as the next guy, I also love to buy these things and you have a high quality week that would make sense to convert into a points generator. My 4206 is my points generator and I still end up renting it two years out of three - so it rarely generates points for me.

Fasttr’s comments about simply renting points have a lot of merit, but banking/borrowing are powerful too, so I would buy the matching week and have 2 MOC week’s, one of which is an optional points generator.

Do you have any other weeks that would allow you to hit Executive level? If not, the slippery slope may include buying 1,500 points on the resale market...

Good luck and let us know what you do!

Best,

Greg

 

[jme]

Sorry, I am not following your thinking here. I am considering using my existing enrolled unit with a maintenance fee of approximately $2300 that would generate 5850 points. That would generate points at less than $.40 per point. I would replace my enrolled unit for personal use with a second MOC unit purchased resale. Wouldn’t that be cheaper and easier than renting my new week and then using that money to rent points?

I missed your saying "enrolled" (with the 4th word in your post, no less). That makes a difference.

Yes, you could and should do what you say, use/occupy the newly-purchased unenrolled week, and use the points
from your enrolled week (since the MF is so high at $2,300). Good plan indeed.

Fasttr has some great points.

I do like the idea of renting points when needed, though. And when a rental of an owned week (with a low MF)
generates a lot of cash, then use that as your source for renting points.
Your situation obviously precludes that because of the $2300 MF.

If you really want to have fun, buy 2 MOC weeks and occupy those,
and use the 5850 + extra rented points to generate a ton of points for some special things.

 

[sdtugger]

Well, although I love renting points as much as the next guy, I also love to buy these things and you have a high quality week that would make sense to convert into a points generator. My 4206 is my points generator and I still end up renting it two years out of three - so it rarely generates points for me.

Fasttr’s comments about simply renting points have a lot of merit, but banking/borrowing are powerful too, so I would buy the matching week and have 2 MOC week’s, one of which is an optional points generator.

Do you have any other weeks that would allow you to hit Executive level? If not, the slippery slope may include buying 1,500 points on the resale market...

Good luck and let us know what you do!

Best,

Greg

Thanks for the insights. When you say you “rent” 4206 are you saying you rent it out to a 3rd party or you “use” it yourself?

I am already Executive level so no temptations there . . . Thankfully . . .

 

[sdtugger]

I missed your saying "enrolled" (with the 4th word in your post, no less). That makes a difference.

Yes, you could and should do what you say, use/occupy the newly-purchased unenrolled week, and use the points
from your enrolled week (since the MF is so high at $2,300). Good plan indeed.

Fasttr has some great points.

I do like the idea of renting points when needed, though. And when a rental of an owned week (with a low MF)
generates a lot of cash, then use that as your source for renting points.
Your situation obviously precludes that because of the $2300 MF.

If you really want to have fun, buy 2 MOC weeks and occupy those,
and use the 5850 + extra rented points to generate a ton of points for some special things.

Thanks. I like your thinking! I just need to find all the time to use all of those weeks you propose . . .

 

[jme]

Thanks. I like your thinking! I just need to find all the time to use all of those weeks you propose . . .

In a given year I may have more than I can use too, and when that happens I rent out a couple
and use the extra cash to offset the maintenance fees (and have excess left over).

You have high end weeks so you can do same. Conceivably we can get close to free weeks. For instance my HH summer weeks generate more than double the MF, so renting one covers 2 MFs, plus some.

Since you have a high MF, you'd make less profit, but you'd still always have a positive cash flow from it.

 

[Quilter]

I own 2 bedroom ocean view annual.

How much are these weeks on the resale market? Is it a fixed week or floating?

 

[TXTortoise]

How much are these weeks on the resale market? Is it a fixed week or floating?

$15-17K asking price on Redweek and $12.5K sale on ROFR.net Floating weeks... Only some OF units in the newer Napili/Lahaina towers are fixed....and way higher price.

 

[GregT]

Thanks for the insights. When you say you “rent” 4206 are you saying you rent it out to a 3rd party or you “use” it yourself?

I am already Executive level so no temptations there . . . Thankfully . . .

I rent 4206 as an intact unit on redweek.com. It is week 24 in a 3Br, which does well on the rental market.

I can redeem it for 10,225 points or rent it for $6,500- $7,500 so have been doing that more times than not. It is a fun game.

Best,

Greg

 

[Jayco29D]

Well, although I love renting points as much as the next guy, I also love to buy these things and you have a high quality week that would make sense to convert into a points generator. My 4206 is my points generator and I still end up renting it two years out of three - so it rarely generates points for me.

Fasttr’s comments about simply renting points have a lot of merit, but banking/borrowing are powerful too, so I would buy the matching week and have 2 MOC week’s, one of which is an optional points generator.

Do you have any other weeks that would allow you to hit Executive level? If not, the slippery slope may include buying 1,500 points on the resale market...

Good luck and let us know what you do!

Best,

Greg

Are you able to make a reservation using DC Points and then rent out the unit?

 

[SueDonJ]

Are you able to make a reservation using DC Points and then rent out the unit?

Jayco, I know you're new and trying to figure this all out so that ownership works the way you want/need it to, and I know that some of the wording about rentals in the governing docs is ambiguous, but there really is no reason for you to keep asking different TUGgers if they've been able to rent out their Marriott Weeks, DC Trust Points, DC Points from enrolled/conversted Weeks, or reservations made using any of those via the ownership accounts. Marriott allows these rentals and there has NEVER been a report on TUG that an owner or his/her renter was penalized for it. It's great that you're doing your homework but this is one question that doesn't need to be asked repeatedly.

 

[GregT]

Are you able to make a reservation using DC Points and then rent out the unit?

I’ve not needed to do it but there is no reason why you could not.

Best,

Greg

 

[Jayco29D]

Jayco, I know you're new and trying to figure this all out so that ownership works the way you want/need it to, and I know that some of the wording about rentals in the governing docs is ambiguous, but there really is no reason for you to keep asking different TUGgers if they've been able to rent out their Marriott Weeks, DC Trust Points, DC Points from enrolled/conversted Weeks, or reservations made using any of those via the ownership accounts. Marriott allows these rentals and there has NEVER been a report on TUG that an owner or his/her renter was penalized for it. It's great that you're doing your homework but this is one question that doesn't need to be asked repeatedly.

What is wrong with asking the same question? I am asking different people to see if they have had that experience. I often ask the same question to different people and I see other people asking the same questions repeatedly too. I also see folks asking questions they could easily find the answers to by doing a search on TUG. Isn't asking questions the purpose of a listserve?

 

[SueDonJ]

What is wrong with asking the same question? I am asking different people to see if they have had that experience. I often ask the same question to different people and I see other people asking the same questions repeatedly too. I also see folks asking questions they could easily find the answers to by doing a search on TUG. Isn't asking questions the purpose of a listserve?

I get that but I think you also need to have some consideration for this bulletin board's reputation, as well as those of the TUGgers who are regulars here and should be given some credit for their willingness to help out anyone who comes to TUG (evidenced by their high post counts, maybe?) What I don't get is, why keep asking a question that you know will yield the same answer every time? I'm not trying to be a problem here but if there were any different answers to be had, they would have been posted already by people who disagree with those of us who have said that our experiences with renting out our ownerships have gone completely unchallenged by Marriott. It just doesn't happen that owner rentals of Weeks, DC Trust Points, DC Exchange Points, and/or any reservations made with any of those products via Marriott are challenged.

Another reason is that the TUG Rules prohibit duplicate posts/threads in order to keep things on topic, and to make discussions easier to read and search. I've given you some leeway with this because you're a relatively new TUGger but eventually when too many duplicates are posted, we mods are supposed to clean things up.