Kaanapali vote to offer 33 units as float

[ocjohn]

Hello everyone,
We own a fixed week at Kaanapali, and yesterday got notice of a special election to sell 33 units (weeks 1-50) as floating weeks. I gather this is a big decision, but am not sure if its good or bad for existing owners. Any opinions?

 

[vacationtime1]

It shouldn't matter for existing owners. They own what they own and Hyatt cannot change that. It may be that as a result, 67 owners will be competing for 67 units each week rather than 100 owners chasing after 100 units.

I suspect that Hyatt will not sell these 33 floating weeks; it will put them into their points program (if the points program ever happens) in order to give them more flexibility.

 

[Panina]

It says existing fixed week owner won't be impacted so that is good.

Float is a marketing strategy where buyers are led to believe they can get any week from 1-50, not realizing the prime weeks are hard to get as they are competing with many other owners.

Ultimately they must have determined overall they will make more money selling float then fixed.

 

[Kal]

My guess is those units are in unfavorable weeks. Just a fantasy that a buyer would be able to get a superior week or any week they want to visit Maui. A shell game.

 

[vacationtime1]

My guess is those units are in unfavorable weeks. Just a fantasy that a buyer would be able to get a superior week or any week they want to visit Maui. A shell game.

No, it has to be 33 full units (i.e. 52 weeks available in each unit). Otherwise Hyatt wouldn't be able to sell them as float weeks.

Although maybe it plans to sell these float weeks for the same price as it has been selling prime weeks.

 

[WalnutBaron]

If there is one location where the float week system can work, it would be Hawaii. The mild climate year-round makes float weeks more acceptable. We used to own float week at Westin Princeville and never had a problem getting our desired week during the eight years we owned there.

 

[lizap]

It shouldn't matter for existing owners. They own what they own and Hyatt cannot change that. It may be that as a result, 67 owners will be competing for 67 units each week rather than 100 owners chasing after 100 units.

I suspect that Hyatt will not sell these 33 floating weeks; it will put them into their points program (if the points program ever happens) in order to give them more flexibility.

The original plan did not call for Kaanapali to be in PPP. I don't know how selling these as floating versus fixed would change this. I agree with Kal. They probably view these as less desirable weeks and think it will make them easier to sell.

 

[ocjohn]

If I read the pdf right attached to the original post, they say they are selling 33 units, all weeks except weeks 51 and 52. So these aren't "undesirable weeks"- it's everything except Christmas for 33 units. And again, if I'm reading it right, they can do this??

 

[lizap]

If I read the pdf right attached to the original post, they say they are selling 33 units, all weeks except weeks 51 and 52. So these aren't "undesirable weeks"- it's everything except Christmas for 33 units. And again, if I'm reading it right, they can do this??

Sounds like they're having trouble selling units. Have they heard the term 'elasticity of demand'?

 

[Kal]

No, it has to be 33 full units (i.e. 52 weeks available in each unit). Otherwise Hyatt wouldn't be able to sell them as float weeks.

Although maybe it plans to sell these float weeks for the same price as it has been selling prime weeks.

Remember, they are not selling a unit, but rather a unit in a grouping of floors. Even then it would likely be impossible to a single unsold unit that spans the full year.

 

[vacationtime1]

Remember, they are not selling a unit, but rather a unit in a grouping of floors. Even then it would likely be impossible to a single unsold unit that spans the full year.

This may be correct, but they would still need to have a unit each week (even if not the same unit) if they want to sell a floating 1-50 unit.

I suppose they could have one unit for each desirable week (such as week 7 -- Presidents' Day week) and a whole lot of weeks 48, 49, and 50 (less desirable weeks) in the pool. But if they do, there will be a lot of disappointed owners owning float weeks.

 

[Kal]

This may be correct, but they would still need to have a unit each week (even if not the same unit) if they want to sell a floating 1-50 unit.

I suppose they could have one unit for each desirable week (such as week 7 -- Presidents' Day week) and a whole lot of weeks 48, 49, and 50 (less desirable weeks) in the pool. But if they do, there will be a lot of disappointed owners owning float weeks.

Those owners wouldn't even know about the floating inventory. All they would know is the target week is not available. For all anyone knows is there is no floater in that week (or many other weeks).

 

[ocjohn]

but bringing it back around, if you owned a fixed week in Kaanapali (like us), would you

1. vote for letting float week units happen
2. vote against
3. not care either way since you could always use your fixed week? (-:

 

[WalnutBaron]

but bringing it back around, if you owned a fixed week in Kaanapali (like us), would you

1. vote for letting float week units happen
2. vote against
3. not care either way since you could always use your fixed week? (-:

If I owned a fixed week at Ka'anapali, I'm ambivalent. On the plus side, anything that helps HRC sell more timeshare intervals is a good thing, since it spreads the costs of maintenance and upgrades to more owners. On the downside, however, maintenance fees are probably being subsidized right now by Hyatt/ILG in order to help sell those intervals and--once HRC believes Hyatt Ka'anapali is comfortably sold--maintenance fees will start to ratchet up more rapidly.

 

[lizap]

I'd vote for no.2 since anything ILG wants to do probably isn't good for us.

 

[taffy19]

I wonder how happy the new buyers of floating weeks at the HKB are going to be when they find out that the best weeks are not in the floating pool so can only be accessed when one of the fixed week owners would like to reserve a different week in another season or go to a different location?

I also wonder if that material fact is going to be mentioned during the sales presentation in Maui to a new prospective buyer? I hope they will mention this important fact.

I would assume that the non-included floating weeks would also be included in the legal documents that you sign when you buy a timeshare week but then they offer to mail the package to your home so you do not have to take it with you on the plane.

They did that with us. If you agree, you may not even read this material fact of the non-included floating weeks and all the other complicated legalese, rules and regulations in the big package of legal documents in the contract until you get home and it may be too late then to rescind the purchase contract. Some people stay additional weeks like we always do.

We were made aware at the presentation that we had the right to rescind the contract within a certain time period and we signed that separately in one of the other documents and it was right at the top of our documents when we opened the big package at home but some people may stay longer in Hawaii so they better read it first and then let them ship it later to their residence.

I was so annoyed when we found out a month or so later that the Hyatt Residence Club was sold to the parent company (ILG) of Interval World as that was the last company (II) I wanted to business with ever again after the Marriott introduction to the new trust points program. I would rather use their own Destination Club as that seems to work much better for us. This is mainly for the Marriott fixed wee/units as floating weeks do not have that same problem, I believe.

This sale to ILG had to be pending already so it should have been disclosed to us one way or the other because it is an important material fact to base a purchase on when we bought. I contacted our sales manager and asked him why it wasn't mentioned and he told me on the phone that he didn't know any sooner than when it was public notice on Wall Street. He even forwarded me an email when he was notified but had it been discussed already between them in the sales department? I will never know but the contract documents had several legal identities mentioned but I didn't notice the ILG name so I agree with Lizap 100% that this is very underhanded again to the prospective buyers in Maui and present customers too if they can choose to enroll in the new program later that they are rolling out slowly for a lot less money than what they they are offering now.

All these big timeshare companies will keep changing the rules to their advantage constantly because they have to improve their bottom line to keep their investors happy. The customer doesn't count anymore so buying a timeshare today is risky to say the least and I would wonder about a re-sale purchase too?

Caveat emptor - "Let the buyer beware".

 

[taffy19]

Hello everyone,
We own a fixed week at Kaanapali, and yesterday got notice of a special election to sell 33 units (weeks 1-50) as floating weeks. I gather this is a big decision, but am not sure if its good or bad for existing owners. Any opinions?

Hi John, welcome to TUG. You will read and learn a lot here. I sent you a private message this morning. Do you know how to open it? Click on "Inbox" at the top and you should find it from taffy19. I do not get notified when a message comes in because I do not want it on my phone.

 

[bdh]

I'd vote for no.2 since anything ILG wants to do probably isn't good for us.

Absolutely correct - no. 2 is the correct answer.

 

[dioxide45]

The original plan did not call for Kaanapali to be in PPP. I don't know how selling these as floating versus fixed would change this. I agree with Kal. They probably view these as less desirable weeks and think it will make them easier to sell.

The weeks they are looking to convert to float are 1-50 in the 33 units. So it isn't less desirable weeks. It looks to perhaps be units where they haven't sold a single week from yet. So they are unbroken units. They will sell weeks 51 and 52 at fixed. So they will have a season that is weeks 1-50 at these 33 units. It is quite possible that they will dump them in to the new Pure Points since that will just be a land based trust.

Edited to add: Thinking about this more. Hyatt doesn't need the weeks to be floating in order to dump them in to Pure Points. They could do that now with any week at any resort. Not sure the motive behind this. It is probably easier to sell a float week given how the industry has changed.

 

[alexadeparis]

In my opinion, this resort probably should have been sold as floating from the beginning. The fixed week/fixed unit is a dinosaur in the timeshare world and a points overlay is required in today's timesharing world for flexibility. I love to travel, but I definitely don't always want to travel to the same place at the same time every year. Boring. There are some weeks that we are always out of town like our two birthday weeks, July 4th and thanksgiving; but it's always somewhere new.

 

[bdh]

In my opinion, this resort probably should have been sold as floating from the beginning. The fixed week/fixed unit is a dinosaur in the timeshare world and a points overlay is required in today's timesharing world for flexibility. I love to travel, but I definitely don't always want to travel to the same place at the same time every year. Boring. There are some weeks that we are always out of town like our two birthday weeks, July 4th and thanksgiving; but it's always somewhere new.

Due to the configuration of the HRC program with deeded fixed weeks that are easily converted to points for an internal exchange to other weeks and other resorts, there isn't too much of a reason to have floating weeks - the exception is the Colorado ski properties that have floating weeks. The Colorado properties were set up as fractional in lieu of TS - so when you bought a deeded ski week, you also got floating points. Since its hard to sell mud weeks in ski country, they were able to "sell" all 52 weeks by tying floating points to the deeded week. With HKB weeks all being 2200 point prime weeks, no need to sell floating points (based on the calendar/season).

 

[dagger1]

Due to the configuration of the HRC program with deeded fixed weeks that are easily converted to points for an internal exchange to other weeks and other resorts, there isn't too much of a reason to have floating weeks - the exception is the Colorado ski properties that have floating weeks. The Colorado properties were set up as fractional in lieu of TS - so when you bought a deeded ski week, you also got floating points. Since its hard to sell mud weeks in ski country, they were able to "sell" all 52 weeks by tying floating points to the deeded week. With HKB weeks all being 2200 point prime weeks, no need to sell floating points (based on the calendar/season).

Well said!

 

[Kal]

In my opinion, this resort probably should have been sold as floating from the beginning. The fixed week/fixed unit is a dinosaur in the timeshare world and a points overlay is required in today's timesharing world for flexibility...

The Hyatt program, including HKB, has always been a fixed week with a points overlay. Matter of fact, they MAY have been one of the first to establish that type of program. As other properties were opened, they added in a floating week component to the fixed week. Other non-Hyatt resorts saw the points program as a way to substantially increase their profit, so they convinced owners to go strictly with points.

 

[WalnutBaron]

The Hyatt program, including HKB, has always been a fixed week with a points overlay. Matter of fact, they MAY have been one of the first to establish that type of program. As other properties were opened, they added in a floating week component to the fixed week. Other non-Hyatt resorts saw the points program as a way to substantially increase their profit, so they convinced owners to go strictly with points.

And that's why I view my ownership of fixed weeks in Hyatt as so valuable. HRC provides owners with the security of a fixed week, guaranteed view and unit, based on what I bought at the time of my initial purchase. If I decide to give up that view and unit because I want to visit someplace else or in a different season, I have that option through the points assigned to my ownership. It's the ultimate flexibility at what I view as a very reasonable price for a luxury vacation.

 

[ocjohn]

true walnutB- although comparing renting your week through redweek vs what it'd cost to *rent* almost anything else that's *available* in the system (private party)- it seems to me it doesn't make sense to do anything other than use your week in Ka'anapali or rent it and go anywhere. As if- this particular resort is an island. Probably like Colorado resorts during ski season.

BUT- the proposal will take 33 units and segment them in a different pool. I count 126 units at Ka'anapali. So for existing owners, the resort just got 26% smaller. So for any fixed week owner that did want to give up their unit and trade in Ka'anapali for a different date, it would be harder. Another reason to just say no.

The developer can probably vote it in by themselves given apathy and how many shares they have voting as a block though.