email just received - Important Updates to Your CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Program Guidelines

[Braindead]

I don't believe so. The language in the supplement that makes me think that:

"As a Club Wyndham Plus Member, you receive specific benefits that are associated with your contract and membership type. Your points allow you to use your benefits, regardless of which contract they came from, and with our upcoming enhancements you will no longer have to worry about different point types and their eligibility."
.

Agree 100 percent resale will still get the same treatment as they do today.

The way they are going to control the size of memberships is limit the amount of contracts in a membership.

Has anyone that was audited and suspended been able to keep more than 10 contracts in a membership ?

Has anyone had to reduce the amount of contracts or start a new membership?

 

[wjappraise]

Agree 100 percent resale will still get the same treatment as they do today.

The way they are going to control the size of memberships is limit the amount of contracts in a membership.

Has anyone that was audited and suspended been able to keep more than 10 contracts in a membership ?

Has anyone had to reduce the amount of contracts or start a new membership?

I was suspended and still not cleared, although my account is partially "thawed". I have received absolutely no communication nor responses from Wyndham since October. I have 17 contracts under one member account. No requests to change my configuration. They just keep cashing my monthly checks without so much as a courtesy phone call or email in response to me. Contemptible.


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[Braindead]

I was suspended and still not cleared, although my account is partially "thawed". I have received absolutely no communication nor responses from Wyndham since October. I have 17 contracts under one member account. No requests to change my configuration. They just keep cashing my monthly checks without so much as a courtesy phone call or email in response to me. Contemptible.


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It will be interesting what if anything you have to do to get fully restored.

If any of you can let us know.
I still find it hard to believe I'm the only one to be exposed to a contract limit. I've never done a single rental and not even VIP till this year. Have never been involved in a points audit at all

 

[bnoble]

But that makes non VIP owners, Silver Vip and any Vip owner without a reservation impossible to book anything but the smallest unit at the resort locked out from staying there.

Nonsense. Book at the beginning of the window, you can get what you need. If you wait until 60 days or less? Leftovers. As was intended (and frankly, what's there now.)

 

[chapjim]

When my wife, daughter and I travel we get a 1 br. When its more family we get a 2br (sometimes 3br). If I have enough points, it will still be worth booking an extra 1br to correspond to those 2br stays, and a studio to correspond to the 1br stays. We might get the upgrade on the lower unit and then be able to cancel the original bigger one.

I wonder whether 'odd shaped' reservations will insulate from others taking a cancel? Of course a 6 night stay would not be taken by a 7 night reservation, but what about an 8 night stay? It will be interesting to see whether it would automatically go to a 7 night reservation leaving the orphan day or just not match.

I also wonder whether when we choose to 'auto upgrade' there might be a list of upgrade room types to choose from like there is today inside the window. Might still be able to select a 3br from a 1br reservation even though you'd be risking not getting it because a 2br auto upgrade would pre-empt. Still the reservation timing might allow this one to pre-empt. Having a list would at least enable upgrading from a 1br ocean view to a 2br ocean view (skipping over the 2br parking lot view in some resorts).

Bob

That was my point. I would expect that we will never see a choice of units to upgrade to. If I have a 1BR unit and a 3BR unit becomes available, the 3BR unit will be taken by someone upgrading from a 2BR unit.

Plus, the way the VIP Upgrade Opt-In is written, " . . . will automatically upgrade your existing reservation to the next largest unit if it becomes available during your upgrade window." If this means exactly what it says, we will not be able to upgrade from a 1BR to a 3BR even if a 3BR becomes available and no one wants to upgrade to it because it is not the next largest unit. This could be poor drafting, too.

 

[chapjim]

But that makes non VIP owners, Silver Vip and any Vip owner without a reservation impossible to book anything but the smallest unit at the resort locked out from staying there.

For prime time reservations, I expect this will be true. For off-sea

I was suspended and still not cleared, although my account is partially "thawed". I have received absolutely no communication nor responses from Wyndham since October. I have 17 contracts under one member account. No requests to change my configuration. They just keep cashing my monthly checks without so much as a courtesy phone call or email in response to me. Contemptible.


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Cashing your checks and peeing on your leg.

 

[Bigrob]

That was my point. I would expect that we will never see a choice of units to upgrade to. If I have a 1BR unit and a 3BR unit becomes available, the 3BR unit will be taken by someone upgrading from a 2BR unit.

Plus, the way the VIP Upgrade Opt-In is written, " . . . will automatically upgrade your existing reservation to the next largest unit if it becomes available during your upgrade window." If this means exactly what it says, we will not be able to upgrade from a 1BR to a 3BR even if a 3BR becomes available and no one wants to upgrade to it because it is not the next largest unit. This could be poor drafting, too.

No, it is not poor drafting. I believe the wording is precise and means exactly that. A 1BR unit will not be eligible to be upgraded into a 3BR unit. Whether the system will actually be coded that way or not is still an open question...

 

[CO skier]

No, it is not poor drafting. I believe the wording is precise and means exactly that. A 1BR unit will not be eligible to be upgraded into a 3BR unit. Whether the system will actually be coded that way or not is still an open question...

That is what I thought after reading the supplement, but consider the difference in interpretation between the "next larger unit" (a one step increase) and the "next largest unit" upgrade (an upgrade to whatever larger unit is available). (And the second interpretation is why I think Gold and Silver VIP owners are getting royally screwed, if that is in fact what happens).

I have no idea what will be the interpretation under the new rules, but this new rule is not exactly precise, and leaves some room for confusion.

 

[Bigrob]

That is what I thought after reading the supplement, but consider the difference in interpretation between the "next larger unit" (a one step increase) and the "next largest unit" upgrade (an upgrade to whatever larger unit is available). (And the second interpretation is why I think Gold and Silver VIP owners are getting royally screwed, if that is in fact what happens).

I have no idea what will be the interpretation under the new rules, but this new rule is not exactly precise, and leaves some room for confusion.

Yes, you are right, as a matter of fact it discounts the possibility of an upgrade for view entirely, which is also an automatic upgrade option according to folks I spoke to. I stand corrected as the language is not as precise as I first thought.

What is interesting is the change in language from the original upgrade wording:

CWP Resort Unit Size Upgrades:
- Choose to receive 1 upgrade on each existing reservation to the next largest unit available
- Receive an instant upgrade to the next largest unit available when booking reservation

The new language omits the word "available" which led me to conclude only the next largest unit would be presented as an option.

Another reason why I believe my original interpretation is correct: Suppose there are 6 units eligible to be upgraded, all 1BR units. There are 6 units larger than a 1BR at the time; 5 2BR units, and a 4BR Presidential. All other units have either already been upgraded or are not eligible (gold, silver, or non-VIP reservations in larger units). The first 5 upgrade into 2BRs. The last one upgrades into a 4BR Presidential.

I don't think it's going to work that way.

 

[bogey21]

I am pretty disgusted with Wyndham and if I could figure out how to get rid of my points for what I have invested, I'd be done. I think that's sad. We bought over 1 million direct and we get treated like poop.

I have never owned Wyndham but I sympathize with those of you who are being impacted by what is going on. It is clear to me as one one on the outside looking in that many of you are not going to get the benefit of what you bought (or thought you bought) and there is nothing you are going to be able to do about it.

George

 

[CO skier]

... not going to get the benefit of what you bought (or thought you bought) ...

That is a key difference in all of this. Every owner bought the ability to book a reservation and cancel a reservation. VIP ownership includes the ability to upgrade a reservation within a certain window.

Each owner still has what they bought.

 

[ecwinch]

That is a key difference in all of this. Every owner bought the ability to book a reservation and cancel a reservation. VIP ownership includes the ability to upgrade a reservation within a certain window.

Each owner still has what they bought.

Correct. None of us were handed tablets with the VIP benefits chiseled in stone.

 

[ronparise]

Nonsense. Book at the beginning of the window, you can get what you need. If you wait until 60 days or less? Leftovers. As was intended (and frankly, what's there now.)

They say wisdom comes with age. George is older than I am and no doubt wiser but even at my age I see the wisdom in what he says here

The upgrades (and discounts) were designed to get the leftovers filled. They were not meant to provide me with a profit when I rent high value, high demand reservations. like Christmas at Bonnet Creek. Nor were they meant to provide every VIP owner with a discount and upgrade on every reservation

theres a reason I always called cancel and rebook a trick. It was a trick. Good while it lasted, but it had to be stopped. Sorry, this was never a benefit of ownership. It was a loophole we exploited. No different than the kid that discovered a secret spot on the vending machine.. kick it just right at the same time you drop your nickle in the slot, and you get 2 candy bars for the price of one. (yea, I know Im dating myself)

What we are doing here is trying to discover another place to kick that machine

That is a key difference in all of this. Every owner bought the ability to book a reservation and cancel a reservation. VIP ownership includes the ability to upgrade a reservation within a certain window.

Each owner still has what they bought.

Correct. None of us were handed tablets with the VIP benefits chiseled in stone.

 

[ilya]

I don't believe so. The language in the supplement that makes me think that:

"As a Club Wyndham Plus Member, you receive specific benefits that are associated with your contract and membership type. Your points allow you to use your benefits, regardless of which contract they came from, and with our upcoming enhancements you will no longer have to worry about different point types and their eligibility."

So , do you really think they are going to allow resale to be treated as VIP level? I wonder why they would put that wording in the new supplement . It almost seems like they have to disclose this information for legal reasons. Otherwise, I don't see why they would broadcast the eligibility of resale. Something that have been trying to fight against for so long.

I have been contemplating buying resale for some time to add to my Gold. Is it still a good idea. If so, CWA or deeded in a low MF resort like Grand Desert, Kingsgate, Smoky Mountain or others like National Harbour. I need to know from the experts to get in now or wait.. If they were in my situation. I do see buying still going on Ebay. Any feedback would be great.

 

[chapjim]

No, it is not poor drafting. I believe the wording is precise and means exactly that. A 1BR unit will not be eligible to be upgraded into a 3BR unit. Whether the system will actually be coded that way or not is still an open question...

Most likely, it won't matter. If a 3BR unit becomes available, it will be taken by someone automatically upgrading from a 2BR unit.

The truth is, we have no idea how some of this will be implemented. Wyndham has been extraordinarily clever in creating policy changes that will put renters out of business, even though there is some uncertainty in what some of the changes mean. Writing policy changes is one thing. Writing code that does what the policy says is altogether different. Who knows how this will all work when the IT people get done!

 

[ecwinch]

No different than the kid that discovered a secret spot on the vending machine.. kick it just right at the same time you drop your nickle in the slot, and you get 2 candy bars for the price of one. (yea, I know Im dating myself)

What we are doing here is trying to discover another place to kick that machine

Yep. Its like the vending machine guy has just told us they are installing a new machine next month, and now we are dreaming up all the different ways we might kick it and what might drop out. But until we see it, no one will know.

 

[dagger1]

But that makes non VIP owners, Silver Vip and any Vip owner without a reservation impossible to book anything but the smallest unit at the resort locked out from staying there.

Yes. Possibly resulting in more folks (Silver, Gold VIP) booking what they actually want (2-3 BR's) 13-10 months out, meaning less availability for the hopeful "upgraders"?

 

[ronparise]

I have been a renter and a VIP owner from my very first purchase. I dont know how it happened, but it did. I bought 3 contracts on ebay and became a silver VIP. I didnt know anything about discounts and upgrades, so I looked for the highest demand reservations at the locations with limited supply. and if I saw a decent spread between my cost (mf) and what i could get in rent, I made the reservation

as time went on I learned about discounts and upgrades and I learned how to become Platinum, cheaply (thanks guys.. for the education...you know who you are) and I started to exploit the cancel and re book trick. But I knew Wyndham had to stop the practice sooner or later.. and now they have

i am not moved by the argument that "this is a benefit we paid for" Its not. Its something we have been allowed to get away with. We have had a good run, but its over.
We are all gonna have to pay full price for the high demand reservations, most of the time. If you need a 3 bedroom you are going to have to reserve a 3 bedroom from the beginning.

As for us renters and owners that can be satisfied with the smallest units at a resort, I see a possible loophole. And that is that the smallest units at a resort cant ever be someones upgrade, so perhaps we can reserve these, and be free to cancel and rebook inside 60 days. So my job now is to determine which resorts have studios that can be rented at a profit if I can get them at half price

one bedrooms in San Francisco are 300000 points a week. so a week at half price will be about $125 a night.. Hotels in the same area are closer to $300
three bedrooms at Reunion are the smallest units there, at half of 285000 under $125 a night, I see profit potential there too
hotel rooms in New York at 275000 points are under $125 a night. I think there is profit to be had here too
how about my favorite, New Orleans at Mardi Gras. a studio is 126000 points a week, half price is about $50 a night. I have been able to rent these at $300 a night

 

[Braindead]

Yes. Possibly resulting in more folks (Silver, Gold VIP) booking what they actually want (2-3 BR's) 13-10 months out, meaning less availability for the hopeful "upgraders"?

The trouble before they booked both. What they wanted and smaller unit. Some even booked 2 of what they wanted just in case they lost the rebook and or upgrade

 

[OutSkiing]

Another reason why I believe my original interpretation is correct: Suppose there are 6 units eligible to be upgraded, all 1BR units. There are 6 units larger than a 1BR at the time; 5 2BR units, and a 4BR Presidential. All other units have either already been upgraded or are not eligible (gold, silver, or non-VIP reservations in larger units). The first 5 upgrade into 2BRs. The last one upgrades into a 4BR Presidential.

I don't think it's going to work that way.

Which is why the upgrade algorithm is a very tricky thing. The question of whether / how to set priority for multiple size upgrades is one matter but there are more issues. Assume those 6 units eligible for upgrade are all 7 day stays. If 4 of them find an exact duration match from a 1 bedroom those are easy. What if there are also matches for 4 day or 3 day 1br stays at the 90 day window from people who did ARP reservations exactly 13 months out? Does it fill those first or give it to another 7 day reservation that was submitted a few days later? Or wait until the 45 day window opens up and give it to a full 7 day reservation in that group?

Its not just a coding challenge .. writing system requirements has to be crazy .. getting 3 people in a room to talk it through must result in a chaotic conversation every time.

If all it auto-assigns is exact duration matches for exactly one size up then there are still likely to be a lot of split upgrade opportunities left at the 60/45 day window. Will they keep the current upgrade ability for that window or will that be crippled too?

Bob

 

[ronparise]

If you need more points for your families vacation needs buy now.. Your VIP benefits might extend to the new points, or they might not. but it dosent matter the only benefit valuable to most of us has been the almost automatic discount. and thats probably gone for your gold membership now

On the other hand if you are considering a new purchase and you insist on getting a discount and upgrade all the time.. dont but now..

 

[dagger1]

The trouble before they booked both. What they wanted and smaller unit. Some even booked 2 of what they wanted just in case they lost the rebook and or upgrade

Great point! I am assuming only really large points owners could book 2 and/or 3 units to hold for 7-10 months... This must be why credit pooling was so important.? Or maybe possible for someone who only booked one vacation per year, meaning less points needed to hold 3 units..? It will be interesting to see whether this results in more or less inventory 60 days out for the Platinum VIP's...

 

[raygo123]

Great point! I am assuming only really large points owners could book 2 and/or 3 units to hold for 7-10 months... This must be why credit pooling was so important.? Or maybe possible for someone who only booked one vacation per year, meaning less points needed to hold 3 units..? It will be interesting to see whether this results in more or less inventory 60 days out for the Platinum VIP's...

I have 490,000 points, and a gold VIP. I can book my winter vacation in February and my spring vacation as the rules stand now and cancel and rebook both with a double booking, make a 3rd reservation for before the 15th of August, using credit pool points at 10 months, and cancel and rebook, and still have time to deposit my points in the credit pool. I do not consider myself a really large owner.

PS, I have done this the last two years.

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[ronparise]

Great point! I am assuming only really large points owners could book 2 and/or 3 units to hold for 7-10 months... This must be why credit pooling was so important.? Or maybe possible for someone who only booked one vacation per year, meaning less points needed to hold 3 units..? It will be interesting to see whether this results in more or less inventory 60 days out for the Platinum VIP's...

Its true that i would hold multiple reservations for months before I did the cancel rebook upgrad thing. but I didnt release anything at 60 days. Mardi Gras is my example, I would reserve 9 one bedrooms and a studio at 13 months. at 60 days I would start canceling, and rebooking, and upgrading with the expectation that I would get 9 one bedrooms and one studio all at half the studio price,,, nothing was left available

Now I expect that Ill make twice as many reservations at 13 months
I forsee less availability at 60 days, not more, at least for the high value rentals

 

[bnoble]

I forsee less availability at 60 days, not more, at least for the high value rentals

But high value rentals are already gone at 60 days now---because they are in high demand. You can't go below zero.