Extremely Obese Seatmate on Full Aircraft

[Ty1on]

Maybe. At least for short flights I can agree with that.

But I can tell you the tickets I just purchased I do not consider cheap. Especially without even a meal included.

That said, I guess maybe the answer is just don't fly so as not to be subjected to the torture the airlines put you through. If you even have that option...

You make a very good point. It may not be this way, but it "feels" like they take away frills, give you a discounted price, then the price creeps back up to where it had been before the benefit was taken away.

I remember when they started reducing the ice cream container size from a quart down to 24oz. The price had been, say, $4.00, and went down to $3.50. Within two months, price was back up to $4.00. So now we get 3 cups for the price of 4. I hate feeling like I'm being manipulated.

 

[Phydeaux]

Comparing the airline industry to ice cream....

Perhaps after a few more complainers, we'll get someone to offer a few solutions, but I doubt it.

 

["Roger"]

With regard to the general topic of airline comfort and who is at fault ...

Wisconsin used to have an airline (Midwest Express) that provided wider seats and good food. To cite one experience, I was flying from Florida to Milwaukee and was seated next to a person who had an executive job with a competing airline. (For obvious reasons, he did not name which one.) His wife had a heart condition and because of that he decided to fly from Florida to Milwaukee and then board a second flight from Milwaukee to New York rather than take a direct flight to New York on his own airline. He cited the flight conditions as the reason for making these arrangements.

Sometimes tickets on Midwest Express were no more expensive than other options, but more often, maybe fifteen percent higher. Midwest Express has now been out of business for years. People voted with their wallet and chose brutal conditions over comfort. (I remember seeing newspaper articles when a competing airline might begin service between Milwaukee and X with people saying "Wonderful, can't wait, don't have to pay the higher prices of Midwest.")

Consider this an economic experiment in offering better services. People vote contrary to what they say they desire. As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and it is us."

 

[VacationForever]

I do wish there is a good airline that charges more - 30 to 100% more, that actually provides bigger seats that are comfortable for an average size person, food and service. If someone who does not fit the "dimension", the person still has to buy 2 seats or there are "upsized" seats on the plane for more. If there is good demand, that may change the paradigm of airline bosses. I fly business and first class because I want larger seats, food, service and space between people. I have no complaints for the amount that I pay. The issue is that most people want to pay as little as they can and the airlines are all competing in prices and the end result is smaller seats, less service and no food. I flew Southwest recently as that is the only non-stop flight and the toilet was the smallest that I have used. I am tall and average built - to some, I would be called slim. I do not know how someone even a tad larger than I can actually turn their body in that space.

 

[Phydeaux]

With regard to the general topic of airline comfort and who is at fault ...

Wisconsin used to have an airline (Midwest Express) that provided wider seats and good food. To cite one experience, I was flying from Florida to Milwaukee and was seated next to a person who had an executive job with a competing airline. (For obvious reasons, he did not name which one.) His wife had a heart condition and because of that he decided to fly from Florida to Milwaukee and then board a second flight from Milwaukee to New York rather than take a direct flight to New York on his own airline. He cited the flight conditions as the reason for making these arrangements.

Sometimes tickets on Midwest Express were no more expensive than other options, but more often, maybe fifteen percent higher. Midwest Express has now been out of business for years. People voted with their wallet and chose brutal conditions over comfort. (I remember seeing newspaper articles when a competing airline might begin service between Milwaukee and X with people saying "Wonderful, can't wait, don't have to pay the higher prices of Midwest.")

Consider this an economic experiment in offering better services. People vote contrary to what they say they desire. As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and it is us."

Ah, those were the days! I sure miss their complimentary champagne on the AM flights and wine on afternoon/evening flights. Stainless flatware, and truly great meals. Had lobster on a few flights from Boston to MKE. No, I didn't pay more. Back in those days, business travel, I purchased back-to-back tickets and essentially flew for free on one of the two flights I purchased at any given time. Or, I threw the second round trip ticket in the garbage, or gave it away to a friend. Those were the days...

 

[SueDonJ]

Comparing the airline industry to ice cream....

Perhaps after a few more complainers, we'll get someone to offer a few solutions, but I doubt it.

Man, you are just one shiny ray of sunshine, aren't you?! I get exhausted reading you.

The airlines aren't going to change until we force them to change, and that means enough of us have to hit them in their pocketbooks. That means we have to be willing to stop all non-essential flying, or, aggressively pepper all social media with legitimate horror stories that force the airlines to publicly acknowledge that they've had to compensate passengers, or, hound your legislators to force the airlines to provide service that's more than a step above cattle-herding.

I can't even begin to say how disgusted I am by some of the comments in this thread related to obesity. I'm 5'2"/120 and in all my life my highest weight of 153 when I was 9 months pregnant, but that doesn't mean I can't empathize with the people in this world who have emotional and physical afflictions that result in them having to battle demons that I can only imagine. But by all means, the righteous should continue with their shaming because we all know how well that serves society. Gah, I'm sickened.

 

[BellaWyn]

Comparing the airline industry to ice cream....

Perhaps after a few more complainers, we'll get someone to offer a few solutions, but I doubt it.

Don't think Ty1on was making a comparison between industries. It was an analogy about price creap using the ice cream industry as an example. Price creap, regardless of which industry, is still a type of consumer manipulation, which can be irksome, and the airline industry is no exception to this tactic.

 

[Phydeaux]

OK, I'll try again:

If you have a better business model for airlines to make a profit and remain in business so that they can continue to fly you around, please, share it with us. I'd love to see it. And specifics please.

To help you get started, why not just start with answering how airlines should deal with domestic/global economies, and fuel purchases. Maybe then you could comment on how you would adress shareholders, and answer their expected rate of return on invested capital (ROIC) given just the two factors above. Never mind all the rest of factors, unless you'd like to also address environmental regs and their impact, and labor.

==============

Can we agree - complaining or criticizing without offering alternatives or solutions amounts to whining.

 

[Phydeaux]

Man, you are just one shiny ray of sunshine, aren't you?! 1. I get exhausted reading you.

The airlines aren't going to change until we force them to change, and that means enough of us have to hit them in their pocketbooks. That means we have to be willing to stop all non-essential flying, or, aggressively pepper all social media with legitimate horror stories that 2, force the airlines to publicly acknowledge that they've had to compensate passengers, or, 3.hound your legislators to force the airlines to provide service that's more than a step above cattle-herding.

I can't even begin to say how disgusted I am by some of the comments in this thread related to obesity. I'm 5'2"/120 and in all my life my highest weight of 153 when I was 9 months pregnant, but that doesn't mean I can't empathize with the people in this world who have emotional and physical afflictions that result in them having to battle demons that I can only imagine. But by all means, 4. the righteous should continue with their shaming because we all know how well that serves society. Gah, I'm sickened.

First, you don't need to read my posts. You can block them, or simply skip over them.

Second, I don't understand what that statement means. Care to explain, please?

Third, huh? Could you please expound on how legislators can force airlines to change their service? Details, please.

Fourth, you've chosen to impose and interject your emotions into a discussion that has nothing to do with emotions.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Could you please expound on how legislators can force airlines to change their service? Details, please. ...

Sure, expand on this to include a reasonable level of comfort for all passengers.

 

[BellaWyn]

Can we agree - complaining or criticizing without offering alternatives or solutions amounts to whining.

OK, I'll try again:

If you have a better business model for airlines to make a profit and remain in business so that they can continue to fly you around, please, share it with us. I'd love to see it. And specifics please.

To help you get started, why not just start with answering how airlines should deal with domestic/global economies, and fuel purchases. Maybe then you could comment on how you would adress shareholders, and answer their expected rate of return on invested capital (ROIC) given just the two factors above. Never mind all the rest of factors, unless you'd like to also address environmental regs and their impact, and labor.

In a hard core corporate setting, sure, where we get PAID to solve problems. But this is a not that and the throw down snarky condescending posturing is a little over the top. Breathe..... then try to chillax.

Solving the airline industry business model problems is not the OT of this thread, it's the evolution of it and pretty sure there is no expectation that it will get solved here in TUG. So, maybe, don't "try again" and make some room for other posters to say what they want to say without an attack. Shove over kiddo, you're taking up two seats....... and only paid for one.

 

[PamMo]

The OP asked for ideas on how to tactfully handle an overcrowded seating situation on a flight. Having Canadian parents and growing up in the Midwest, “nice” is my default.

I’m suggesting that the angst shown towards overweight or tall people who encroach on your seat, armchair, or aisle space, is misplaced. (Being selfish and rude is a different matter.) Americans have an obesity problem, but the average Premium Economy seat is the same size or smaller than the standard economy seat in the 1990’s. It seems obvious that there will be crowding. So yeah, I sort of have a problem with a business model that makes customers uncomfortable so they can be sold upcharges for previously normal sized seats, families sitting together, a checked bag, carry on bag, early boarding for access to now very crowded storage bins, etc. As a consumer, I’m not really concerned about the airline posting another year of fantastic profits for their shareholders. The North American airline industry is doing just fine. It’s expected to have its eighth solid year of profitability in 2017, thanks to consolidation, lower fuel costs, increased capacity, and additional fees (which are not taxed and regulated like fares). Their net profit margin of 8.5% far outpaces the airline industry in Europe and Asia-Pacific (2.9%), Latin America (.7%) and the Middle East (.5%). I’m all for a business making a profit, but consumers shouldn’t give airlines a free pass when they intentionally make flying uncomfortable. My complaints will be directed to the airline, not the poor fellow crammed into the seat next to me.

 

[WinniWoman]

You've chosen to change the topic. That's fine - these forum posts have a tendency to do that, and I'm as guilty as the rest.

Thus, since you'd like to now discuss how the airline business conducts their business, I will again pose the same reply: If you have a better business model for airlines to make a profit and remain in business so that they can continue to fly you around, please, share it with us. I'd love to see it. And specifics please.

To help you get started, why not just start with answering how airlines should deal with domestic/global economies, and fuel purchases. Maybe then you could comment on how you would adress shareholders, and answer their expected rate of return on invested capital (ROIC) given just the two factors above. Never mind all the rest of factors, unless you'd like to also address environmental regs and their impact, and labor.

Thanks!

No reason to get testy. I was just reiterating the realities of flying these days as posted by some others. I don't profess to know anything about running an airline business. I am just commenting from the point of view of a lowly customer.

 

[WinniWoman]

You probably have heard about American now offering economy seats for supposedly a lesser fare and no access to an overhead bin. No seat selection either. Soon that fare will be what regular economy fare is now. Just wait for it...

 

[silentg]

I had a similar problem but it was a heavy set person behind me, my chair would not recline an inch. The person in front of me reclined his seat to the point of me looking up his nose. I tried to cope, but felt squished. The flight attendant relocated the man behind me, he grumbled but complied. It was a long flight too, overnight from Orlando to Dublin.
Silentg

 

[BellaWyn]

The OP asked for ideas on how to tactfully handle an overcrowded seating situation on a flight. Having Canadian parents and growing up in the Midwest, “nice” is my default.

I’m suggesting that the angst shown towards overweight or tall people who encroach on your seat, armchair, or aisle space, is misplaced. (Being selfish and rude is a different matter.) Americans have an obesity problem, but the average Premium Economy seat is the same size or smaller than the standard economy seat in the 1990’s. It seems obvious that there will be crowding. So yeah, I sort of have a problem with a business model that makes customers uncomfortable so they can be sold upcharges for previously normal sized seats, families sitting together, a checked bag, carry on bag, early boarding for access to now very crowded storage bins, etc. As a consumer, I’m not really concerned about the airline posting another year of fantastic profits for their shareholders. The North American airline industry is doing just fine. It’s expected to have its eighth solid year of profitability in 2017, thanks to consolidation, lower fuel costs, increased capacity, and additional fees (which are not taxed and regulated like fares). Their net profit margin of 8.5% far outpaces the airline industry in Europe and Asia-Pacific (2.9%), Latin America (.7%) and the Middle East (.5%). I’m all for a business making a profit, but consumers shouldn’t give airlines a free pass when they intentionally make flying uncomfortable. My complaints will be directed to the airline, not the poor fellow crammed into the seat next to me.

. Well stated "complaint" with no hard solution presented. Thank you!

Sometimes, this is the kind of presented information that brings quality "food for thought" that will help the collective. This is the beauty of TUG, to share these thoughts. And this is one I can whole heartedly agree with!!

 

[x3 skier]

I do wish there is a good airline that charges more - 30 to 100% more, that actually provides bigger seats that are comfortable for an average size person, food and service............I fly business and first class because I want larger seats, food, service and space between people. I have no complaints for the amount that I pay.

I think you found the 30-100% solution, called First Class. Makes too much sense for this thread

On the topic of the obese taking "my" space, I immediately ask the Flight Attendant to reseat the person or me or please call the gate agent to rebook me. Only had to do that a couple times and things worked out for me quite well. I really don't care if the other person or I get moved but I'm not going to share my seat with a stranger.

Cheers

 

[Phydeaux]

No reason to get testy. I was just reiterating the realities of flying these days as posted by some others. I don't profess to know anything about running an airline business. I am just commenting from the point of view of a lowly customer.

That said, I guess maybe the answer is just don't fly so as not to be subjected to the torture the airlines put you through. If you even have that option...

No reason for the drama, and to over exaggerate, again.

 

[Kal]

The OP asked for ideas on how to tactfully handle an overcrowded seating situation on a flight..... My complaints will be directed to the airline, not the poor fellow crammed into the seat next to me.

The "poor fellow" is OBESE and should not pawn his problem on me or the airline. He has options including purchasing two seats. The situation I described was not one person, but TWO. He and his wife are both OBESE. His wife in the window seat overflowed into his middle seat, thus he could only wallow into my seat. The option there would be not to sit together. Sorry about not sitting next to his sweetie, but that's an option for the porcine pair.

 

[heathpack]

Haha I am still traumatized by that flight of mine next to the obese lady!

I have since made it a point to fly first or business class whenever possible. On FF miles of course.

We went up Scotland last September in part for me to attend a work conference. "Ok, I'll go," I told my boss, "but only if I can fly first class." That was one sweet flight experience. I actually looked forward to the flight home, what a treat.

But then I flew coach to NY in Dec though when my mom got sick. Last minute thing, didn't have the miles. OMG pro tip: don't fly between self-absorbed NYC and self-absorbed LA on Christmas Day. Self absorbed people don't like to discipline their children on a normal day, no way are they going to do it on Christmas Day! Ugh.

Nowadays I'd rather fly less frequently with a more pleasant flight experience if that's what it takes to have an enjoyable flight.

PS I have two words for y'all: Concorde Room. Google it, you'll see what I'm getting at.

 

[MOXJO7282]

Phydeaux happens to know just a bit about this subject, having been on a professional team that treated the obese in the medical field. No, they were undoubtedly overfed identically. Science is rather pure on this subject.

This is absolutely not true as I've read numerous studies that suggest the morbidly obese have more than just bad choices that make them fat. Are you a doctor or scientist? Or just a clinic worker?

 

[Phydeaux]

[Deleted: Folks - this is a contentious social issue, so if you can't be courteous in your posts, I'm going to close the thread.]

 

[WinniWoman]

This is absolutely not true as I've read numerous studies that suggest the morbidly obese have more than just bad choices that make them fat. Are you a doctor or scientist? Or just a clinic worker?

Agree. And I was a Wellness Director for a hospital based weight loss program. Obesity is a complex medical condition based on many factors such as heredity, metabolism, medical conditions like diabetes, the nervous system, nutrition, mobility/activity level, fat cells, emotions, and of course, all the unknowns.

 

[Cropman]

Please, I don't have Facebook because of less than this. Can we get back to timeshares or stay on the subject posted? Time and place. And this isn't the time or the place. PLEASE KNOCK IT OFF!

 

[zinger1457]

Please, I don't have Facebook because of less than this. Can we get back to timeshares or stay on the subject posted? Time and place. And this isn't the time or the place. PLEASE KNOCK IT OFF!

Nice try but probably in vain, unfortunately it's become the norm for most online forums.