Hilton Club NY Lounge access no longer available to RCI Exchangers

[alwysonvac]

WELL THAT SUCKS :annoyed:
I just received the following email today from RCI.

Dear RCI Member:

We have some important information to share concerning your upcoming vacation to The Hilton Club of New York in New York.

The staff at The Hilton Club of New York advised us that effective immediately, the Guest Lounge is unavailable to exchange guests.

We realize this may have an impact on your vacation and wanted to inform you of this situation in advance. Since availability is limited in the area you confirmed, we encourage you to retain your vacation. Should you decide to cancel your stay, our standard cancellation guidelines will apply.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I am surprised the Hilton Club lounge was available to non-owners. The W 57th lounge is only available to W 57th owners. The two properties seem to run under similar policies.

 

[vacationhopeful]

That is JUST total crap!

My resort should declare that the pool and resort activities are off limits to RCI exchangers, too. RCI would DROP my resort in a heartbeat.

If they want to LIMIT RCI exchangers access, they should NOT be depositing into RCI the number of exchange weeks that they want to use to "troll" for new sales bodies.

Or they should expand the lounge are as they have expanded from 2 floors to MORE floors.

 

[jestme]

From an HGVC standpoint, I don't know why we put up with this Hilton Club nonsense altogether. They seem to come from a different world, make their own rules, etc. I wonder where the Hilton Club will sit when HGVC gets spinned off to a separate company and isn't under the all encompassing Hilton umbrella.

 

[alwysonvac]

I am surprised the Hilton Club lounge was available to non-owners. The W 57th lounge is only available to W 57th owners. The two properties seem to run under similar policies.

The two properties don't run under similar policies. This has been discussed before in various old threads.

 

[holdaer]

HGVC just announced The Residences by Hilton Club will be coming online in 2018 for all HGVC members. It appears this NY locale is at the Hilton New York Midtown hotel. The same hotel as The Hilton Club-New York.

Since HGVC has been buying back the RTUs from The Hilton Club-New York members, I wonder if HGVC is looking to dissolve the The Hilton Club-New York product and switch it to a conventional timeshare product under the name The Residences by Hilton Club.

Has anyone been to The Hilton Club-New York recently and can confirm or refute this idea?

 

[buzglyd]

HGVC just announced The Residences by Hilton Club will be coming online in 2018 for all HGVC members. It appears this NY locale is at the Hilton New York Midtown hotel. The same hotel as The Hilton Club-New York.

Since HGVC has been buying back the RTUs from The Hilton Club-New York members, I wonder if HGVC is looking to dissolve the The Hilton Club-New York product and switch it to a conventional timeshare product under the name The Residences by Hilton Club.

Has anyone been to The Hilton Club-New York recently and can confirm or refute this idea?

I would say that's exactly what they're doing.

 

[Jason245]

HGVC just announced The Residences by Hilton Club will be coming online in 2018 for all HGVC members. It appears this NY locale is at the Hilton New York Midtown hotel. The same hotel as The Hilton Club-New York.

Since HGVC has been buying back the RTUs from The Hilton Club-New York members, I wonder if HGVC is looking to dissolve the The Hilton Club-New York product and switch it to a conventional timeshare product under the name The Residences by Hilton Club.

Has anyone been to The Hilton Club-New York recently and can confirm or refute this idea?

It makes sense, the RTU model is much more hassel than the direct sale model. To be honest, buying back RTU units even at a premium is better for them in the long run....

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Take comfort in the fact that you paid thousands less than NYC owners and use your savings to buy a street cart bagel and coffee for breakfast (which is probably better anyway). You are still thousands (if not tens of thousands ahead) with NYC resales running in the $15 - $25k+ range and retail purchases in the $45k+ range. Don't you think HGVC should throw NYC owners some perks (albeit minor) for paying such a premium?

Enjoy NYC. You got a great deal.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

In addition, I seem to recall that lounge services are paid out of the maintenance fees that NYC owners pay.

Why is it fair that NYC owners should pay for your breakfast, alcohol and appetizers when they don't get the same benefits when they visit your property?

 

[PigsDad]

In addition, I seem to recall that lounge services are paid out of the maintenance fees that NYC owners pay.

Why is it fair that NYC owners should pay for your breakfast, alcohol and appetizers when they don't get the same benefits when they visit your property?

Ok, let me ask you this: When you trade your NYC property for a property that includes a different perk that you don't get at your home property, should you be expected to pay for that? For example:

A surcharge for parking (your NYC property doesn't include free parking)
A surcharge for extra square footage (your NYC property is tiny in comparison)
A surcharge for a full-sized kitchen (your NYC property's kitchen is lacking)
etc.
etc.

So why do you think it is unfair for people exchanging into your NYC property to receive all the amenities at that property?

Kurt

 

[vacationhopeful]

When the HCNY owners who exchanged OUT of their high price ownership are floating in MY SOUTH FLORIDA beach block heated pool, hot tub and sauna in February or March or July 4th week which I exchanged out of to get the deposit into the HCNY ... those items are PAID with my MFs. That is why it is called an "EXCHANGE BOOKING".

Plus, I was searching just 3 days using my AKV/DVC points for HCNY with a RCI guide ... and could have gotten a 1 bdr Hilton Club week for January, 2017. I was just thinking would January be a bit too cold for my 91 yo aunt which is WHY I did not book it.

I rented my DVC points YESTERDAY ... now I am glad to use the money for a different trip. And use my Wyndham points for NYC.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Ok, let me ask you this: When you trade your NYC property for a property that includes a different perk that you don't get at your home property, should you be expected to pay for that? For example:

A surcharge for parking (your NYC property doesn't include free parking)
A surcharge for extra square footage (your NYC property is tiny in comparison)
A surcharge for a full-sized kitchen (your NYC property's kitchen is lacking)
etc.
etc.

So why do you think it is unfair for people exchanging into your NYC property to receive all the amenities at that property?

Kurt

Unfortunately you are confusing fixed costs with variable costs.

Such properties must maintain heated pools and kitchen amenities for its owners or it would be considered substandard. Your maintenance fees are not significantly impacted by one more person using the kitchen. On the other hand, free alcohol and food is a significant incremental cost that someone must pay for.

Now if you stocked the kitchen with a week's worth of food and alcohol for my family and paid for staff to prepare, serve and clean (akin to the lounge in HCNY), that would be a different story...

 

[PigsDad]

Unfortunately you are confusing fixed costs with variable costs.

Such properties must maintain heated pools and kitchen amenities for its owners or it would be considered substandard. Your maintenance fees are not significantly impacted by one more person using the kitchen. On the other hand, free alcohol and food is a significant incremental cost that someone must pay for.

BS. Parking spaces cost money to maintain every year. Larger units means more maintenance every year. More kitchen appliances means more upkeep every year. Large landscaping has maintenance costs every year. Those are all "significant incremental" costs not associated with a property like Hilton Club NYC.

So the NYC property has a lounge that is a cost that most other properties don't have. One could easily argue that they built that lounge and provided the associated service because they lack so many amenities that other timeshares have, so why should it not be accessible to exchangers?

It's not a variable vs. fixed cost issue, your maintenance fees are what they are for a given property and its associated amenities. If your argument is that the amenities that you receive at a given property should be based on what MFs you pay at your home property, then it follows that all exchanges should be based on the maintenance fee you pay. If you pay $1200 in MF, you can't exchange into a place that has a $1300 MF, etc. Do you think that is how all exchanges should work?

Kurt

 

[CalGalTraveler]

You are comparing apples (big apple to be exact! ) with oranges. If you believe that Las Vegas or Florida real estate and labor is comparable in price to NYC real estate then I've got a retail timeshare you might want to buy.

Second, re: fixed vs. variable costs. Parking lots, kitchens and landscaping need to be maintained regardless of whether a non-owner uses the property or not. Every property has wear and tear including NYC. If a non-owner and their family eats and drinks for a week at HCNY that incurs additional cost.

Why should an owner pay for your family to eat and drink alcohol for a week when they don't get similar service at your property?

BTW...some HGVC properties such as in HHV charge for parking, so the argument about parking doesn't make sense. Besides, there is no need to have a car in NYC.

 

[vacationhopeful]

....Second, re: fixed vs. variable costs. Parking lots, kitchens and landscaping need to be maintained regardless of whether a non-owner uses the property or not. Every property has wear and tear including NYC. If a non-owner and their family eats and drinks for a week at HCNY that incurs additional cost.

...

You really are ANGRY that non-owners socialize and mix it up with the HCNY owners?

A real HCNY owner deposited their ownership to exchange via RCI to another resort. Another timeshare owner paid their exchange fee to book into HCNY and is using the ownership your FELLOW HCNY owner deposited.

Added: I paid my resort's MFs, paid an exchange fee, joined into the fabric of the social scene with HCNY owners, enjoyed my vacation experience and services of a fine resort. If I had been relegated to the HCNY room with not even a mini-fridge or a coffee pot .. I would have written up a very BAD REVIEW (being a 2nd class guest while I walked past the lounge and observed & smelled the coffee and food).

But YOU really believe that a timeshare owner (the HCNY exchanger) should NOT enjoy a decent breakfast in the lounge while YOUR fellow HCNY owner uses a full kitchen to whip up a hot breakfast for their family in their RCI exchanged unit? As for the evening beverages and nice snacks ... my Princeton educated brother (my guest) was totally dumbfounded that I, a graduate of a Southern finishing school, held my own and actually ADDED new info, to our table conversation on Impressionist Art of the Late 1800s with 3 HCNY owners who travelled extensively to view art.

Are you following ... my brother and I may have been eating and drinking with some elite HCNY owners .. but they learned from ME as we learned from them. My brother is still in awe of our tables' joint conversation. And that is one of the reasons I enjoy travelling.

My brother asked me back at the unit .. .WHERE did I learn all this art world stuff? I explained I knew this "one little" piece but I knew it well .. I was lucky they knew less. But then again, the Helen Birch Bartlett Collection at the Art Institute of Chicago is world famous (which I saw some of the collection in Chicago before my NYC trip).

AND the Hugh Taylor Birch State Park is across the Sunrise Blvd to my favorite timeshare resort in Ft Lauderdale which shares a property line with the Bonnet House (Helen Birch Bartlett's and Henry Clay's home in Ft Lauderdale).

 

[CalGalTraveler]

You really are ANGRY that non-owners socialize and mix it up with the HCNY owners?

Whoa. I am not angry and I am not even an owner at HCNY.

There is no doubt that there would be interesting conversations. The point is simple and purely economic. Everyone should pay their fair share.

Bottom line the rooms are a great deal: If your maintenance is approx. $1000/year. Then you are paying roughly $142/night for a nice room in one of the best addresses in NYC. It would not be easy to find something comparable that is not a bed-bug ridden closet-sized room at that price during a peak time. Check out the prices of the rooms on hilton.com.

On top of getting a great room at a great price you expect the owners to subsidize and feed you and your family for a week? The sense of entitlement here astounds me.

 

[bizaro86]

If they don't allow exhangers into the lounge, will the oqners who exchange OUT have their portion of the mf that relates to the lounge refunded?

It seems to me that this policy is actually owners who exchange out subsidizing those who use their time at the property.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

If they don't allow exhangers into the lounge, will the oqners who exchange OUT have their portion of the mf that relates to the lounge refunded?

That's a very interesting thought. I believe the way it will work is that the cost savings will be spread across the homeowners association as food and beverage are calculated into the operational/maintenance fee.

 

[brp]

Since HGVC has been buying back the RTUs from The Hilton Club-New York members, I wonder if HGVC is looking to dissolve the The Hilton Club-New York product and switch it to a conventional timeshare product under the name The Residences by Hilton Club.

As a W. 57th owner, I would prefer that this is the case rather than the addition of a third property as it preserves the value of my W. 57th property due to scarcity.

Take comfort in the fact that you paid thousands less than NYC owners and use your savings to buy a street cart bagel and coffee for breakfast (which is probably better anyway). You are still thousands (if not tens of thousands ahead) with NYC resales running in the $15 - $25k+ range and retail purchases in the $45k+ range.

Of course, the value of the NYC properties on the resale market has not declined. It has been steady of late, but has risen quite a bit since the property was introduced. When we finally do sell, I expect that we'll get at least our money back, probably more.

As a W. 57th owner and former HCNY owner, I'm fine with the limitations. As mentioned, these are variable and per-user costs, not fixed costs. I would expect the lounge to be reserved for owners as it is as W. 57th.

Now, when I try to exchange into one of the new Club locations as a W. 57th owner, I'll probably want the rules to change to all Club folks.

Cheers.

 

[buzglyd]

Just look at the locations of the posters with the highest exclamation point count.

Explains a lot.

Honk!

 

[PigsDad]

If a non-owner and their family eats and drinks for a week at HCNY that incurs additional cost.

How does that incur an additional cost? If the owner didn't exchange the week, then the owner would be eating and drinking in the lounge. If the owner exchanged their unit, the exchanger eats and drinks in the lounge. If the owner rented their week, the renter would be eating and drinking in the lounge.

Where is the additional cost???

Unless you can answer that, your argument holds no water.

My point is that the MF is based on the property and its amenities. The lounge costs are just like any other costs that go into determining the MF, just like landscaping, parking lot maintenance, etc. at other properties. Why are the lounge expenses "special", such that you think non-owners should barred from partaking?

Kurt

P.S. Personally, I don't give a hoot if an exchanger can or cannot access the lounge. Just look at the inequities DIS exchangers pay vs. owners. I just think it is absurd thinking that lounge expenses are somehow in a category by themselves, separate from other operating expenses.

 

[dioxide45]

I am surely not a fan of this. Not that I own or can even exchange in to a HGVC property. Anything included in your MFs is part of what you own. If you get lounge access and you are paying for it through your MFs, then someone exchanging in should get the exact same benefits. When trading was started, it was meant for me to trade what I would get at my resort for what you would get at your resort. You may get lounge access at yours, but I may get something different included at mine. It is quite possible that someone exchanging in is actually paying a higher MFs than you are at your resort. It is the lumps you take when you opt to exchange. If Hilton is paying for the related lounge costs 100%, then I see no issue with them restricting access, but if it is in the owners MFs, I should get it when I visit as an exchanger.

We know the only way for this to stop is for the exchange companies to stand up and be willing to drop these properties. We know they won't do that because they covet these big timeshare companies being affiliated with them. The only real option is for the exchangers to give these properties negative ratings when you get the survey after your visit.

 

[buzglyd]

It's Sycamore Creek wine and Costco appetizers. The last time I was there, some doofus put a Danish in the toaster and practically lit the place on fire.

It's not that big of a deal.

 

[Jason245]

It's Sycamore Creek wine and Costco appetizers. The last time I was there, some doofus put a Danish in the toaster and practically lit the place on fire.

It's not that big of a deal.

Seriously. .. for the most part, if you are exchanging into ny property, you are probably realizing a net benefit (mf plus exchange fees) of at least 50 percent on your mf.

With that savings I would be more than willing to pay for my own danish and glass of wine...

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