KORV question

[fv9]

Hello! I'm currently at KORV North for the third time. My parents have owned a 2bd for 2 weeks for around 10 years now. Today I was offered a 1bd for 1 week in the new tower to be ready 2018. $28k. Plus, there are additional incentives such as 70k Starwood points, etc.

That seems like a pretty good number and equates to 81k points. How would that translate to other non Villa locations such as in Cabo? I'd be interested to see if it easy to end up with 2-4 weeks in other locations such as Cabo, Cancun, etc.

Thanks!

 

[LisaRex]

That's about $10,000 more than I'd expect to pay on the resale market for a 2 bedroom Ocean View unit in the north tower, which is worth 148,100 StarOptions. And it's about $20,000 more than I'd expect to pay on the resale market for a 1 bdrm Ocean view unit in the south tower. Plus, if you buy in the older phases, if/when you want to sell it, the StarOptions will transfer to the new buyer. That keeps the resale value up.

The new tower does not allow the transfer of StarOptions upon resale, so when you go to sell it, that will negatively impact the value.

As far as StarOptions go, Cancun and Cabo should be relatively easy exchanges, IMO. Westin St. John is tricky during platinum season, Harborside is hard to get in the summer time, and the ski resorts are hard to get in ski season. Also, Starwood is starting to dicker around with their StarOption assignments, and 81,000 might not get you into another phase in platinum season. For instance, St. John is now worth 95,700 SOs.

Me? If I loved Hawaii and had $28000 sitting around, I'd buy Ocean Front at either of the older phases (preferably south phase, but I'm okay with the north phase, too) so that I'd get the higher SO assignment of 176,700. (95,700 for 1 bdrm side + 81,000 for studio).

 

[vacationtime1]

That's about $10,000 more than I'd expect to pay on the resale market for a 2 bedroom Ocean View unit in the north tower, which is worth 148,100 StarOptions. And it's about $20,000 more than I'd expect to pay on the resale market for a 1 bdrm Ocean view unit in the south tower. Plus, if you buy in the older phases, if/when you want to sell it, the StarOptions will transfer to the new buyer. That keeps the resale value up.

The new tower does not allow the transfer of StarOptions upon resale, so when you go to sell it, that will negatively impact the value.

As far as StarOptions go, Cancun and Cabo should be relatively easy exchanges, IMO. Westin St. John is tricky during platinum season, Harborside is hard to get in the summer time, and the ski resorts are hard to get in ski season. Also, Starwood is starting to dicker around with their StarOption assignments, and 81,000 might not get you into another phase in platinum season. For instance, St. John is now worth 95,700 SOs.

Me? If I loved Hawaii and had $28000 sitting around, I'd buy Ocean Front at either of the older phases (preferably south phase, but I'm okay with the north phase, too) so that I'd get the higher SO assignment of 176,700. (95,700 for 1 bdrm side + 81,000 for studio).

+1

The non-transferability of the StarOptions will kill the resale value of the Nanea property. Consider Westin Princeville, another high end Starwood resort in Hawaii with non-transferrable StarOptions. A 2bd annual unit there costs about $55K new and about $15K resale.

Before purchasing at Nanea, look at WKORV and WKORVN (resale, of course), ocean front. Expect to pay $38-40K or $25-26K respectively for a 2bd annual that will be fully transferable should you ever want to or need to sell. Larger unit, better view, less depreciation.

 

[fv9]

So it is possible to obtain Staroptions on the resale market? I'd be interested in if that is possible. The Staroption points would be valuable to us but I thought they were not transferable in the resale market. Thanks!

 

[vacationtime1]

So it is possible to obtain Staroptions on the resale market? I'd be interested in if that is possible. The Staroption points would be valuable to us but I thought they were not transferable in the resale market. Thanks!

Yes, but only at a few resorts: WKORV, WKORVN, WKV (Kierland), and specific sections of Vistana Villages, Harborside, and St. John.

Please check out the Starwood Owner Resources at the top of this forum for more detail.

 

[Helios]

Yes, but only at a few resorts: WKORV, WKORVN, WKV (Kierland), and specific sections of Vistana Villages, Harborside, and St. John.

Please check out the Starwood Owner Resources at the top of this forum for more detail.

All Harborside Phases transfer SOs at resale. Only WSJ VG transfer SOs (BV, CV, and SV don't).

 

[fv9]

Thanks all!

 

[DeniseM]

Starwood FAQ: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63224

Converting your timeshare to Starpoints (hotel points) should not be part of the equation - it's a terrible value. The number of Starpoints you get is very low, when you look at the cost.

 

[fv9]

Starwood FAQ: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63224

Converting your timeshare to Starpoints (hotel points) should not be part of the equation - it's a terrible value. The number of Starpoints you get is very low, when you look at the cost.

But it makes sense to consider Staroption points, doesn't it?

 

[DeniseM]

But it makes sense to consider Staroption points, doesn't it?

Yes and no. The maintenance fees are so high at the Maui resorts, that I would only buy there if I was going to go to Maui every year - I would not use them for other resorts. If you want Staroptions to trade, there are much cheaper options.

You can often acquire resales in the mandatory phases at Sheraton Vistana Villages for less then $1,000.

 

[fv9]

Yes and no. The maintenance fees are so high at the Maui resorts, that I would only buy there if I was going to go to Maui every year - I would not use them for other resorts. If you want Staroptions to trade, there are much cheaper options.

You can often acquire resales in the mandatory phases at Sheraton Vistana Villages for less then $1,000.

Thanks. We would use Maui the majority of the time for a variety of reasons. But it would be nice to have other options using Staroptions for me and my wife. My parents own here and I would like the kids to go to KOR as I grew up vacationing in Maui and the memories are special to me. But, it would be great to convert so my wife and I could go elsewhere on occasion!

 

[DeniseM]

Thanks. We would use Maui the majority of the time for a variety of reasons. But it would be nice to have other options using Staroptions for me and my wife. My parents own here and I would like the kids to go to KOR as I grew up vacationing in Maui and the memories are special to me. But, it would be great to convert so my wife and I could go elsewhere on occasion!

But in most cases, you would be trading a very expensive resort, for a far less expensive resort - so it doesn't make financial sense to use Maui for a trader.

You might want to consider an every other year deed on Maui, and an every other year deed at SVR.

 

[fv9]

But in most cases, you would be trading a very expensive resort, for a far less expensive resort - so it doesn't make financial sense.

You might want to consider an every other year deed on Maui, and an every other year deed at SVR.

Am I wrong to think that the Staroption points at KOR would be more valuable at other resorts? We tend to spend 3 weeks/yr vacationing. I was thinking a 2 week 2bd for a week at KOR would allow us to spend more time at other Villa properties. Perhaps I need to do more research. And thanks for the quick replies!

 

[DeniseM]

Am I wrong to think that the Staroption points at KOR would be more valuable at other resorts?

It doesn't matter what resort they are from - they all have the same value.

1 Staroption in Hawaii has the same value as one Staroption in Florida.

 

[fv9]

It doesn't matter what resort they are from - they all have the same value.

1 Staroption in Hawaii has the same value as one Staroption in Florida.

OK. I had no idea. They made it sound like 81000 Staroption points from KOR will get you much more time at another Villa resort. Also, the color coding shows it as different here: http://www.tug2.net/advice/svn_valuechart.pdf. For instance, KOR is always Platinum Plus. I thought we could take the 81000 and turn it into 2 weeks at a Lagunamar studio during Gold Plus.

 

[DeniseM]

Staroptions exchanges strictly go by the number of Staroptions.

81,000 Staroptions from Maui have the exact same value as 81,000 Staroptions from Florida. It doesn't matter where they come from.

 

[Sicnarf]

Staroption is Staroption regardless where you get it.
And yes, 81000 SOs will get you a 1br in kor for a week or or close to 2 weeks in lagunamar.

And you can get that 81000 SOs by getting a high season SVV Bella unit for about $1500.

 

[DeniseM]

The next logical question is why is 81,000 Staroptions so much cheaper in Florida, than in Hawaii?

It's is supply and demand - Florida is overbuilt with timeshares - thus, more supply than demand.

 

[canesfan]

The question is, do you plan to travel to Hawaii during peak times? How old are your kids and will you be forced into traveling during school breaks? I'm under the philosophy of buy where you want to vacation. It's getting harder to book the high demand resorts during peak times for those who own at those resorts, let alone those using SOs. If you are going to use SOs every 4-5 years, I wouldn't sweat the 'devaluation' of using it at another resort, if you wanted to go somewhere other than Hawaii for a change.

 

[LisaRex]

If you want to go to Maui most years, care about the view you're going to get, and/or cannot travel in low/shoulder season, I'd definitely buy there. Maui is getting harder to exchange to year round, and especially in peak season (e.g. anytime the kids are off of school and Jan/Feb/March). Owners have priority to reserve at their home resort at 12 months out. If you buy at WKV and expect to exchange it, you'll have to wait until 8 months out and compete with everyone in the network who has SOs. That is the downside to exchanging.

If you were willing to spend $28,000 to get a 1 bdrm OV at the new phase, then why not spend the same amount of money for a 2 bdrm OF at the older resort? Note: All resales at WKORV are subject to Right of First Refusal, which means that Starwood can buy the unit for the price negotiated, so it may take a few tries before you land one. But I think it will be a much, much better value for your money if you buy there.

BTW, and Ocean FRONT unit at either of the older phases comes with a higher number of StarOptions (176,700) than WKV, so you need to consider that in your calculation.

P.S. In case you didn't know, you can't reserve or exchange into WKORV during the last 2 weeks of the years (Christmas/New Years) unless you buy an "event week" there. Just FYI.

 

[fv9]

I do want to travel to Maui wth the kids. As mentioned, my parents own at KOR and I grew up spending spring breaks at The Whaler down south a bit and would like my children to have those same experiences growing up. View, otoh, is not a big deal for me unless it is helpful with potential resale at some point if needed.

Is there a forum tracking at what price points Westin is exercising ROFR?

 

[DeniseM]

There is a TUG member who is a reputable broker on Maui, and he is knowledgeable about ROFR prices - his TUG user name is Syed. (You can send a private message to "Syed.")

At the two current phases of the resort, all views have the same (high) maintenance fee, so you pay the same MF for Island View, Ocean View, and Ocean Front.

If you don't care about the view, and are flexible about when you travel, I would consider buying resale somewhere else and using the Staroptions to trade in - it will be much cheaper.

If you want school holidays and Ocean View or Ocean Front, you should buy at the resort.

I would not buy a one bedroom at the Maui resorts - the MF is nearly as high as a 2 bdm. For the lowest MF, it is a better value to buy a 2 bdm. in the original phase.

A 2 bdm. deluxe, and a 2 bdm. in the North phase have significantly high MF's.

Then you would have the one bdm. to use with your family, and the studio side to use with your wife - somewhere else if you wish.

 

[fv9]

There is a TUG member who is a reputable broker on Maui, and he is knowledgeable about ROFR prices - his TUG user name is Syed. (You can send a private message to "Syed.")

At the two current phases of the resort, all views have the same (high) maintenance fee, so you pay the same MF for Island View, Ocean View, and Ocean Front.

If you don't care about the view, and are flexible about when you travel, I would consider buying resale somewhere else and using the Staroptions to trade in - it will be much cheaper.

If you want school holidays and Ocean View or Ocean Front, you should buy at the resort.

I would not buy a one bedroom at the Maui resorts - the MF is nearly as high as a 2 bdm. For the lowest MF, it is a better value to buy a 2 bdm. in the original phase.

A 2 bdm. deluxe, and a 2 bdm. in the North phase have significantly high MF's.

Then you would have the one bdm. to use with your family, and the studio side to use with your wife - somewhere else if you wish.

Thank you so much for all of your help. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[capjak]

You may want to consider OceanFront at the North or South property as it will give you more star options (177,000 vs 148,000) for the same maintenance fee. Of course upfront buyin is going to be more, but if you were going to pay 28K for a 1 bedroom you could get an Oceanfront for a little less than 28K on the North property Oceanfront.

South Oceanfront will cost upwards of 30K+

 

[Ken555]

You may want to consider OceanFront at the North or South property as it will give you more star options (177,000 vs 148,000) for the same maintenance fee. Of course upfront buyin is going to be more, but if you were going to pay 28K for a 1 bedroom you could get an Oceanfront for a little less than 28K on the North property Oceanfront.



South Oceanfront will cost upwards of 30K+

I believe only south OF center units have the same MF, since the others are Deluxe units. North OF units have the same MF as others at the same resort.