Would it bother you?

[SMHarman]

The gazillion point owners can potentially Rebook then cancel.

If they are playing with the only unit available the sometimes they will get burned.

 

[CO skier]

The gazillion point owners can potentially Rebook then cancel.

If they are playing with the only unit available the sometimes they will get burned.

For the profitable reservations, which is where the gazillion point owners live, there is no availability to book before cancelling. A waitlist would undoubtedly capture the cancellation, and so would a faux waitlist (bot) if it (they) exist(s).

That seems to be the problem. VIP Platinum owners are cancelling to rebook at a discount/upgrade and the cancellations are not reappearing, thereby disrupting their game.

If a waitlist existed in Club Wyndham, as it does in many other branded timeshares, it would act as a Super-bot according to the demand entered by other owners who are willing to wait in line for cancellations. 13-month reservations cancelled? history, with no rebook opportunity, as it should be.

It works great in WorldMark.

 

[am1]

You keep asking different questions.

Anyone booking online has no knowledge about the source of the reservation they are booking.

If a reservation is cancelled, it is fair game. It is the canceller's responsibility, not the reserver's responsibility.

Same question. I stated the person booking would not know why it was cancelled but would they feel bad if they did.

 

[ronparise]

For the profitable reservations, which is where the gazillion point owners live, there is no availability to book before cancelling. A waitlist would undoubtedly capture the cancellation, and so would a faux waitlist (bot) if it (they) exist(s).

That seems to be the problem. VIP Platinum owners are cancelling to rebook at a discount/upgrade and the cancellations are not reappearing, thereby disrupting their game.

If a waitlist existed in Club Wyndham, as it does in many other branded timeshares, it would act as a Super-bot according to the demand entered by other owners who are willing to wait in line for cancellations. 13-month reservations cancelled? history, with no rebook opportunity, as it should be.

It works great in WorldMark.

With wyndham when the gazillion points owners play their game they dont hurt any of the little guys. We play among ourselves, in the 2 months before a check in with reservations we already have. As someone said in a post above, changing the rules or fixing a computer program to make it easier or more difficult to get away with a cancel and rebook affects very few of us>

In the worldmark system however the big guys do have an advantage 13 months ahead of check in, because in Worldmark its just a matter of paying a little more to secure all the inventory for any high demand reservation I want> The little guys cant or wont spend the extra credits to jump the line< and even if they do, I have more

On the Wyndham side I cant do that>> I have to compete with everyone, big and little to get just one reservation and if I get more than one it really wasnt in high demand. I just did the 7 am scramble for a high demand reservation between Christmas and New Years, for a customer. She is also a Wyndham owner and was doing the same thing. (she wanted two) The point is that all of us, with a few points or a lot of points have to play together. I cant overpower anyone with my millions

If you want a fair reservations system Club Wyndham with a limit of 7 nights for a reservation and limited check in days, (Check in or check out has to be on a Friday, Sat or Sunday) wins, hands down


The Worldmark wait list prevents me from cancelling and rebooking, but since there is no 50% discount I wouldnt do that anyway. whats the point?? Instituting a wait list on the Wyndham side will cost me money, but it wont give anything to the smaller owners because Ill just hang on to my reservations instead of playing games with them

 

[ronparise]

Same question. I stated the person booking would not know why it was cancelled but would they feel bad if they did.

Same answer. I picked up a reservation once in the 60 day window and the same day got a call from another of us that rents reservations (it really is a pretty small community) He wanted to know if I had any of those reservations> as he had just lost one trying to cancel and rebook... I did and I charged him full price. He was back in the same position he was before he cancelled, and I made a profit. (he made a profit too, by the way)

I didnt feel bad at all (although I didnt tell him what had happened)

 

[Don40]

It is always funny that the big corporation has us little guys fighting for the scraps thinking we are accomplishing something. The largest Wyndham mega renter is Wyndham by far. No individual, or 100 of multi million point owners come any where close to Wyndham, not only do they rent, their hands are on the computers, getting all the rooms, at any location and timeframe they want before any owner has a chance. Talk about bots they are the bot creator for their benift to make as much money as they can.

How many of us have lost upgrades, without it ever showing up even times when the VC are on the phone, who is the mystery winner Wyndham. Free inventory, no limits on reservations, check in days. This is JMHO.

We should ask does Wyndham feel bad when they take away your reservation. :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

 

[Roger830]

With wyndham when the gazillion points owners play their game they dont hurt any of the little guys. We play among ourselves, in the 2 months before a check in with reservations we already have. As someone said in a post above, changing the rules or fixing a computer program to make it easier or more difficult to get away with a cancel and rebook affects very few of us>

I

If you have enough points for say 10 February weeks in Florida, cancel them, then rebook then at a 50% discount, if frees up half of your points.

With credit pooled points, the next year in February you have enough points for 15 weeks, then 17 1/2 weeks the following year. This takes possible reservations away from little guys that aren't quick enough on the internet.

 

[ronparise]

If you have enough points for say 10 February weeks in Florida, cancel them, then rebook then at a 50% discount, if frees up half of your points.

With credit pooled points, the next year in February you have enough points for 15 weeks, then 17 1/2 weeks the following year. This takes possible reservations away from little guys that aren't quick enough on the internet.

It does not take anything away from the little guy. I make those reservations out of available inventory. and he can compete for them at the same time

He never had those reservations in the first place, so how can you say I took them from him

And more than that, if I didnt have my cancelled points to re use, I would still have my current years points. The limits on us arent the number of points we have at our disposal, Speaking for myself and that week in February, I have enough points every year to reserve all 140 units in the building, I dont need the cancelled points from the year before.

The fact is if there were 140 owners competing for those 140 units I could get but one. My larges number of points whether they are last years cancelled points in the pool, this years points or next years points in the pool dont give me any advantage over any other owner. in making a high demand reservation

 

[Roger830]

If everybody was vip and canceled, then rebooked, there wouldn't be enough reservations in the system for people to use their points that year. There would be twice as many points as units to use.

It's simply a fact that booking with discounted points consumes more reservations than your fair share and denies potential reservations to others.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Roger830 ...

I own fixed deeded Wyndham weeks... so the inventory on winter WEEKS is far fewer in the points system than MANY points owners "figure" on the number of units at the resort. And I fight, just like RonP does at other resorts, to get a few additional reservations at those resorts during the PRIME seasons.

And with the "new" Wyndham rules, I am taking ANY and ALL of prior converted fixed weeks OUT of the points system ... it ain't worth the FIGHT and the new RULES to get some "discount" off a points reservation ... counting days, counting units booked, paying for 'fake' guests certificates, looking for overlapping NIGHTS, AND the dealing with clients who "play" their games.

It used to be ... guests either accepted your offer 3-6 months before checkin and PAID you or declined (and about 35% came back a month or so later, and inquired again... taking the original deal). TODAY, almost no one plans more than 48 hours before checkin and always feel, they are doing YOU a big favor, by taking 50% off your ad price AND offering even less.

Mobile internet on PHONES while driving and live internet on planes while flying to check multiple booking engines for various stays (like AirBNB). And ... looking for the CHEAPEST place to stay. And your UNIT must be THE BEST in the resort. I can be happy in almost any unit at any of my resorts ... even when the resort 'tries' to give me a better unit (yes, I have declined MOVING to the Penthouse floor and stayed put in the LOWEST floor over an heavily used door. Even the checkin clerk ASKED, What did you do to get this unit? I said, must be MY turn?; and the unit was FINE).

And YES, the Canadian exchange rate effected rentals this year ... WHY? Because, if the regulars HAD BOOKED and PAID in August, they would have been FINE (I believe); no, most guests tried the 4-6 week before checkin game ... and LOST on their exchange rate. And asking me, to CUT my prices even further ... below my costs. Business does NOT survive on NOT PAYING their bills.

So next YEAR ... renters will be seeing fewer available units ... the rules have changed. And prices will be higher ... because AGAIN, the Wyndham HOAs will increase MFs and those NEW points rules, will spread the fewer reservations around to more 'users/renters/websites'.

And I will still have MY vacation weeks for my usage in my grey hair years ... as that was MY ORIGINAL PLAN for a Snowbird home in the Florida.

 

[Roger830]

Linda, I'm with you. I have my week 7 at Ocean Palms and weeks 4,5,6 in Hollywood. A vip was complaining to me at Sea Gardens that he couldn't get week 4. He must not know how the system works.

Let's be clear, I'm not complaining about the system. I knew what it was when I bought into it.

 

[bnoble]

Instituting a wait list on the Wyndham side will cost me money

Note that Wyndham has done things in the past for no other good reason than this---at least not one that any of us can see.

 

[ronparise]

Note that Wyndham has done things in the past for no other good reason than this---at least not one that any of us can see.

That's for sure but it didn't diminish the renting

 

[ronparise]

If everybody was vip and canceled, then rebooked, there wouldn't be enough reservations in the system for people to use their points that year. There would be twice as many points as units to use.

It's simply a fact that booking with discounted points consumes more reservations than your fair share and denies potential reservations to others.

I think what you are missing is that VIP is a developer benefit and those extra reservations I get come from the developer stash of un sold points

Certainly if everyone was VIP and if the system was ever completely sold out there would be a problem

Bottom line is that I'm not talking about what could happen I'm talking about what is And where we are now there is always something available to reserve whether you have a lot of points or not

 

[Ty1on]

I used to think cancel rebook was at the expense of average owners, too. The fact is that the full point value is still going to the rental. Half of it is from the VIP's points, and half from the developer's marketing budget. If any member has ARP at a highly sought destination, she can book it at 13 months just like the renters. The ability of the renters to then cancel rebook is a benefit that was sold them when they paid tens of thousands of dollars to achieve VIP (12,000 if your name is Ron).

If there is an argument to be made, it's that allowing VIP benefits on resale points costs the developer more than they originally formulated, because they didn't collect any revenue to cover this marketing expense. But that's on Wyndham, not on the VIPs or little guys like me.

 

[bnoble]

That's for sure but it didn't diminish the renting

True, those changes were at the margins. What would be the material impact to a large-scale renter of a waitlist or some other mechanism that significantly curtailed cancel/rebook? Potentially larger. Still not enough friction to end it, but would it be enough to push a few to liquidate?

 

[bnoble]

If there is an argument to be made, it's that allowing VIP benefits on resale points costs the developer more than they originally formulated, because they didn't collect any revenue to cover this marketing expense. But that's on Wyndham, not on the VIPs or little guys like me.

Even there, it probably doesn't matter. The number of people who leverage accounts in this way is tiny compared to the total number of VIP owners---most of whom probably have no idea they can even try to cancel/rebook.

 

[Roger830]

If a vip has 1.4 million points, then at 10 months he can book 10 weeks at 140,000 points for each unit. If at 1 month, he cancels and rebooks those units with 700,000 points total and those points were credit pooled, then he can use those points the folowing year.

The next year at 10 months, he can book 15 weeks, thus taking 5 weeks that would otherwise go to other owners. Yes, if other owners get on the internet at 7AM, they have an equal shot at booking those units, but it doesn't change the fact that if he books 15 weeks, 5 weeks are not available to others because of vip and credit pool rules.

 

[ronparise]

True, those changes were at the margins. What would be the material impact to a large-scale renter of a waitlist or some other mechanism that significantly curtailed cancel/rebook? Potentially larger. Still not enough friction to end it, but would it be enough to push a few to liquidate?

Thats what happened in the past, A big big tool in the renters toolbox was removed. (owner to owner transfer of points) Thats where the mega renters got most of their points, and it was a big enough deal that a number of folks went out of business

What that change did was give rise to the points managers, and they are todays megarenters

 

[ronparise]

If a vip has 1.4 million points, then at 10 months he can book 10 weeks at 140,000 points for each unit. If at 1 month, he cancels and rebooks those units with 700,000 points total and those points were credit pooled, then he can use those points the folowing year.

The next year at 10 months, he can book 15 weeks, thus taking 5 weeks that would otherwise go to other owners. Yes, if other owners get on the internet at 7AM, they have an equal shot at booking those units, but it doesn't change the fact that if he books 15 weeks, 5 weeks are not available to others because of vip and credit pool rules.

and its no different than when you make one reservation with your 105000 point account. That one reservation is no longer available to any other owner

 

[Ty1on]

If a vip has 1.4 million points, then at 10 months he can book 10 weeks at 140,000 points for each unit. If at 1 month, he cancels and rebooks those units with 700,000 points total and those points were credit pooled, then he can use those points the folowing year.

The next year at 10 months, he can book 15 weeks, thus taking 5 weeks that would otherwise go to other owners. Yes, if other owners get on the internet at 7AM, they have an equal shot at booking those units, but it doesn't change the fact that if he books 15 weeks, 5 weeks are not available to others because of vip and credit pool rules.

What if they own 2.8M points and don't have the benefit of 50% points discounts? The bottom line is, Wyndham used points discounts to leverage sales, so it is as if your points value is doubled if you use this feature (In a perfect world. If you lose the resv on cancel, then it backfires). This is a factor many owners paid for, with money they wouldn't have shelled out if the benefit wasn't offered.

I'm sure the initial intent of the discount was to give VIPs benefits on accommodations no one else wanted at 60 days. Cancel Rebook is probably manipulating the system around their original intent, but Wyndham has done nothing to close that hole, and salesmen continue to coach this practice to make their commission.

 

[Cheryl20772]

Same question. I stated the person booking would not know why it was cancelled but would they feel bad if they did.

When I want or need a reservation and it's there for me to take, it doesn't matter at all where it came from - it came from Wyndham.

What benefit is it to me if I know where the reservation came from? Suppose it popped up when a new widow had to cancel her vacation because her child got sick and she will be staying with it through chemo at a hospital far from home. Am I supposed to spend my vacation feeling remorse for her pain and catastrophe?

Stuff happens and my heart would go out to the widow with prayers, but why do I need to know such stuff to enhance my timeshare vacation experience? If someone cancels their reservation and I need it, I don't need to feel any way but grateful.

If someone is playing the cancel/rebook game and they lose their reservation, they gambled and lost. If someone loses $100 in a slot machine and you come right behind them and win on the first pull, do you feel "bad" for the person who used it before you?

 

[Roger830]

and its no different than when you make one reservation with your 105000 point account. That one reservation is no longer available to any other owner

Ron,
I know that you are smart enough to comprehend what I'm talking about, but you continue to skirt the issue.

Sure the 105,000 guy is taking a reservation that will no longer be available, but with the new credit pool rules, cancelled points can be used in the next use year giving the vip more use year points than he is paying mf for. That was not the intention of the discount.

 

[Roger830]

What if they own 2.8M points and don't have the benefit of 50% points discounts? The bottom line is, Wyndham used points discounts to leverage sales, so it is as if your points value is doubled if you use this feature (In a perfect world. If you lose the resv on cancel, then it backfires). This is a factor many owners paid for, with money they wouldn't have shelled out if the benefit was offered.

I'm sure the initial intent of the discount was to give VIPs benefits on accommodations no one else wanted at 60 days. Cancel Rebook is probably manipulating the system around their original intent, but Wyndham has done nothing to close that hole, and salesmen continue to coach this practice to make their commission.

I agree. I'm just saying that they made the situation worse by returning canceled points to the credit pool.

 

[Ty1on]

Ron,
I know that you are smart enough to comprehend what I'm talking about, but you continue to skirt the issue.

Sure the 105,000 guy is taking a reservation that will no longer be available, but with the new credit pool rules, cancelled points can be used in the next use year giving the vip more use year points than he is paying mf for. That was not the intention of the discount.

To belabor the point, Wyndham is paying MF on the extra points through their marketing budget.