We did not how well we had it.

[pagosajim]

Looks like the six minute delay from cancel to available is down to a few seconds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And if this is truly what all the fuss and mystery is about, how is this a "bad" thing?

AM1 - why not just say what it is that prompted your post and be done with it?

 

[JimmieJames]

Looks like the six minute delay from cancel to available is down to a few seconds.


Shhhh!!!! That's what I was referring to in #34 but now everybody knows. I like it that way - but it works for me no matter what the delay is provided it is somewhat predictable.

Jim

 

[alexadeparis]

This applies to so very few Wyndham users and/or tug users, so why were you so cryptic? The rest of us normal Wyndham users couldn't care less. Anyway, who's to say it won't change back again soon? I wouldn't make a major change to my vacation plans based on what could be a momentary software glitch/loophole.

 

[am1]

Also means the bots can come back or already are. The delay was the best security system Wyndham could provide for all owners. Not just a small few.

 

[ronparise]

Also means the bots can come back or already are. The delay was the best security system Wyndham could provide for all owners. Not just a small few.

The bots never left No matter how hard wyndham tried to stop them.. just like the VCs could see cancelled reservation in a few seconds when it took minutes for us to see them, so could the bots, and they still can

 

[CCR]

Occasionally a few of us will skate a little close to the edge and see how long we get away with it before the Mother Superior's ruler smacks down on our fingers. If someone really goes over the line, Doug will make the whole thread disappear. Usually though, we police ourselves and know when the ice is getting a little too thin.

Jim

Sounds like that could be more of a fun game than posting cryptic messages :rofl:

Just kidding, Denise and other forum gods. I'll behave

 

[JudyS]

Looks like the six minute delay from cancel to available is down to a few seconds....

Ah! Thanks for clearing up this mystery!

It seems to me that the rules change frequently with Wyndham points. I know many Tuggers love thier Wyndham ownerships, but the rule changes are one factor that makes me reluctant to buy Wyndham.

Yes, I know that it's possible to use rule changes to one's advantage. I think this is more worthwhile for people who own tons of points in one system, though. I tend to have small ownerships in a bunch of different systems, and I've discovered that keeping up with frequent rule changes is just too much hassle. I used to own in a very small points system where the rules were always changing, and I ended up paying the company to deed back my ownership.

 

[JudyS]

The bots never left No matter how hard wyndham tried to stop them.. just like the VCs could see cancelled reservation in a few seconds when it took minutes for us to see them, so could the bots, and they still can

Hmmm.... do the bots access the Wyndham reservation system through the internet, and if so, why can bots see the changes before human users can? (I understand that Wyndham reps are using the reservation system's "back end," so it makes sense Wyndham reps can see changes before the general public can see them online.)

 

[am1]

Hmmm.... do the bots access the Wyndham reservation system through the internet, and if so, why can bots see the changes before human users can? (I understand that Wyndham reps are using the reservation system's "back end," so it makes sense Wyndham reps can see changes before the general public can see them online.)

My understanding/guess is the bots see the inventory as soon as it is available online. I took today off from doing reservations so not sure how active they are since the change yesterday.

Hopefully I have not forgot too many tricks.

 

[JudyS]

Also, I am now second-guessing my knowledge of grammar. Shouldn't the title of this thread be, "We did not [know] how good we had it"?

Which oddly, is the opposite of the proper word usage here:

 

[JudyS]

My understanding/guess is the bots see the inventory as soon as it is available online. I took today off from doing reservations so not sure how active they are since the change yesterday....

If I understood correctly, Ron was saying the bots could see changes *before* the changes appeared online. Not sure how that would work.

 

[ekajun1957]

Thought I was going crazy but was looking at three open reservations and they disappeared off the screen while I was looking. Was just being curious about what was available so no harm, has anyone else had them actually drop off the list right in front of your eyes like I did, or has anyone seen any added as you are looking?

 

[ronparise]

If I understood correctly, Ron was saying the bots could see changes *before* the changes appeared online. Not sure how that would work.

I dont know how any of this works, The whole internet is magic as far as Im concerned (not to mention television and cell phones)

but it seems to me that if the Wyndham VCs could see what I cancelled and rebook it with their machines in Orlando, before I could see it on mine, why couldnt some sharp computer guy program his machine to do the same thing

 

[pagosajim]

If I understood correctly, Ron was saying the bots could see changes *before* the changes appeared online. Not sure how that would work.

I'm doubting this theory as the bot program would need some kind of elevated access or privileged view provided internally to the VCs to operate in this way. My understanding of bots is they are programmed interfaces to the application that operate just as a human would in clicking/selecting objects on the screen, just a whole lot faster and repetitively.

Which takes me back to my previous question: How is immediate return of a cancelled reservation as compared to delayed return a bad thing? I'm just not seeing how this changes things. If I'm competing with the bot for that reservation, we are both waiting the same amount of time for it to reappear and the probability of either of us getting it hasn't changed.

 

[JudyS]

...but it seems to me that if the Wyndham VCs could see what I cancelled and rebook it with their machines in Orlando, before I could see it on mine, why couldnt some sharp computer guy program his machine to do the same thing

Typically, transactions are done on a computer system that is located only within a company, using a database program rather than a web browser. Only after the transaction is completed within the company's database system is the information transmitted to the internet. Depending on the particular company, the transmission could take as long as several hours. (Or, in the case of RCI, days. )

It's certainly possible that some other owner has a faster internet connection than you do. In fact, I'd say this is pretty much guaranteed, unless you are paying for a very fast connection. However, usually the big delay is in transferring the information from the company's database to the internet. Once the information is available to the internet, it is usually transmitted quite quickly. A faster internet connection might buy someone a few seconds, but that's probably it.

(Just saw pagosajim's post. My understanding of bots is the same as his.)

 

[JudyS]

...
Which takes me back to my previous question: How is immediate return of a cancelled reservation as compared to delayed return a bad thing? I'm just not seeing how this changes things. If I'm competing with the bot for that reservation, we are both waiting the same amount of time for it to reappear and the probability of either of us getting it hasn't changed.

Not a Wyndham owner, but I'd say owners who want to cancel and rebook are better off with *no* delay. The owner knows exactly what s/he has canceled. If the week shows up within a few seconds online, s/he can rebook it while other owners are still searching to see what might have become available.

Edited to add: On second thought, what I posted above doesn't make sense. I should get more sleep before I post!

 

[am1]

The delay was better. Much Better. A game changer. It was good while it lasted.

 

[ronparise]

Typically, transactions are done on a computer system that is located only within a company, using a database program rather than a web browser. Only after the transaction is completed within the company's database system is the information transmitted to the internet. Depending on the particular company, the transmission could take as long as several hours. (Or, in the case of RCI, days. )

It's certainly possible that some other owner has a faster internet connection than you do. In fact, I'd say this is pretty much guaranteed, unless you are paying for a very fast connection. However, usually the big delay is in transferring the information from the company's database to the internet. Once the information is available to the internet, it is usually transmitted quite quickly. A faster internet connection might buy someone a few seconds, but that's probably it.

(Just saw pagosajim's post. My understanding of bots is the same as his.)

and I dont have any understanding of what happens behind the scenes, but if Wyndham's VCs some of whom work from home on computers and the internet, just like you and me, can work right out of the database, why cant some smart guy get his machine to do the same thing

 

[Ty1on]

and I dont have any understanding of what happens behind the scenes, but if Wyndham's VCs some of whom work from home on computers and the internet, just like you and me, can work right out of the database, why cant some smart guy get his machine to do the same thing

This would be a security breach, I would think. VCs should have secure logons to the database portal that aren't available to the public.

 

[SMHarman]

Typically, transactions are done on a computer system that is located only within a company, using a database program rather than a web browser. Only after the transaction is completed within the company's database system is the information transmitted to the internet. Depending on the particular company, the transmission could take as long as several hours. (Or, in the case of RCI, days. )

It's certainly possible that some other owner has a faster internet connection than you do. In fact, I'd say this is pretty much guaranteed, unless you are paying for a very fast connection.

A key word here is fast as in ping / round trip times. Not fat as in 10 Mb or 100Mb.
Their request needs to get to the server before yours.

and I dont have any understanding of what happens behind the scenes, but if Wyndham's VCs some of whom work from home on computers and the internet, just like you and me, can work right out of the database, why cant some smart guy get his machine to do the same thing

In these situations they wyndham employees will start by logging on to the wyndham corporate network through a vpn with a secureid or some other authentication. Then they are inside the network. They may use a web bases interface to access internal databases but they are looking at a slightly different info set.

As someone else commented what a public user sees is a replication of the DB in the network DMZ. A zone between the internet and the secured corporate network.

I'm doubting this theory as the bot program would need some kind of elevated access or privileged view provided internally to the VCs to operate in this way. My understanding of bots is they are programmed interfaces to the application that operate just as a human would in clicking/selecting objects on the screen, just a whole lot faster and repetitively.

Exactly. When you fill our the web form and submit it the content is turned into a single long line of query that is sent to the database. In many cases this is pretty human readable at the top of the response page you can often see resort codes and dates.

The bot just is programmed to submit that periodically though the day and night and when a response contains what they are looking for then sent the bookit commands.

 

[comicbookman]

This would be a security breach, I would think. VCs should have secure logons to the database portal that aren't available to the public.

Without getting technical, using a VPN is basically the same as being directly connected to the corporate network on campus. It requires a network login (Which the VC's need in the call center as well) and can be configured to only allow particular addresses or even machines access. Completely different from how you and I access Wyndham. That is why VC's can see things we cannot. If a bot had that kind of access, it would be a major security breach and/or an inside job. As a network administrator for a smallish Regional Water and Sewer Authority, I could detect this kind of breach to my network, it is inconceivable to me that the Wyndham IT folks (even outsourced) could not find this type of breach. The only way for bots to work is connect the same way we do, they just have many orders of magnitude faster reaction times. That and they can continuously try for hours without rest.

 

[pagosajim]

The delay was better. Much Better. A game changer. It was good while it lasted.

Please elaborate. Perhaps specific examples of "much better" to help support the assertion.

 

[CO skier]

Please elaborate. Perhaps specific examples of "much better" to help support the assertion.

In a word -- "collusion" on the part of Vacation Counselors. Some of them have a conscience.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1859758

 

[ronparise]

In a word -- "collusion" on the part of Vacation Counselors. Some of them have a conscience.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1859758

Thats my post you are referencing.. How is that collusion?

Collusion is an agreement between two or more parties, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair market advantage.

The question is, who am I "deceiving, misleading, or defrauding" These are reservations I already have. If its a competition for the reservations I already have them, I already won

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

SHARING info with all on TUG is not collusion

Hi All,
I love the info I get from reading TUG . It is a forum- so opinions and personal interpretations are part of the " sharing " .
I really appreciate how freely the points renters share - with all of us and with the occasional new owner of Wyndham who is considering using some of their points for renting .

Keep it up - it is a version of the " pay it forward " life plan
and enjoyable reading for me