Newbie...need help (Shell) [3 threads merged]

[Hbushey]

I've been trying to do some research on tugs and Internet. We are thinking of buying into Shell...or rather taking over one of the many free offered contracts. I haven't been able to find answers to a few questions.

We are looking to stay at properties in San Diego, Anaheim, Napa and San Fransisco on short 3-4 day trips in a 2 bedroom unit. I found you can rent a unit directly from Wyndham, but the 2 bedroom units are never available. That specifically has prompted me to looking at ownership. So questions:

1. Are there 2 different kinds of ownerships? One point based and one with deeded weeks at a specific resort?
2. I have seen listings for a floating week at a specific resort, does this translate into points that can be used at any Home Club resort? (Ie. Shell Club West) or can you only use a full week at that specific resort?
3. Is there any booking advantage to buying at a specific resort or is the booking window the same for the entire West Home Club?
4. Would there be significant difficulty in securing a 2 bedroom at any of the above properties with the Home Club booking window?
5. Is the Home Club booking advantage lost if you are booking less than a week?

I'm afraid of taking the plunge only to find out I can't even book the 2 bedroom in short stays as a member...

Thanks
Heather

 

[vacationhopeful]

Shell is great in many ways ...

I also own in the West Club ... about 8000 points; all resale; all like FREE except for the MFs every year. The entire WEST club of resorts is the early booking window; I have been booking in the PHX though ... Americana Club? I want to go to the WEST Club resorts ... just have not convinced my travelling siblings to SKIP AZ Spring Training.

The HOME BOOKING window for the club does NOT require you to book 7 nights. There are fees for several booking things - Housekeeping Credits and Reservation Transactions. You get SOME free based on HOW many points you have for both RT and HKs.

HKs...Some OLDER Shell accounts come with unlimited Housekeeping credits (hard to find and NOT CHEAP or FREE accounts). Housekeeping credits are for turning over the unit each time ... book 10 nights - one housekeeping; book 4 nights - one housekeeping. If you get hit with HK fees, it is based on the unit size.

eBay makes you list a location ... Shell did NOT sell fixed weeks but resorts they took over might have been sold earlier as fixed weeks.

As for 2bdr units: most Shell built resorts (not taken over from another chain NOR a "city" location) were built as 2/2 lockouts ... so a 1bdr and a ST forms the 2/2 unit ... no stand alone 1 bdr nor ST nor 2/2 ... all units built as park of the lockout.

Home Resort is NOT lost on a short stay ...

NOW to warn you ... I am an expert in Wyndham and all things Wyndham ... Shell Vacation Club is NEWER to me ... if other Shell owners post that I have it WRONG ... then I will agree ... but this so far has been my experience in playing with the Shell Reservation system ...

 

[presley]

I also own Shell West club. That is what you want if you want to book all the areas that you mentioned.

1.) Yes. There are old contracts that were for weeks. As far as I know, you can no longer buy a week run by Shell, unless you happen to get one resale.

2.) A float unit means it hasn't been converted to points and it can't be used for Shell Club bookings.

3.) When you buy West Club, it makes no difference which resort the contract was originally tied to. Mine was tied to Fisherman's Wharf, but I have home booking advantage at all West Club properties.

4.) None.

5.) I believe it is. I know I've tried to book less than a week a year in advance and it wouldn't let me because it said I wasn't booking the minimum number of days required for booking 12 months in advance. I never looked into when that goes away. It's possible that someone could book 4 nights if only 4 nights are available at the time, but I honestly don't know.

EDIT: I found this on the Shell website. This only applies to the West Club. Other clubs may vary.
minimum stay 308 days or more in advance - 7 nights
minimum stay 61-307 days in advance -2 nights
one night stays available 60 days or less.

 

[Ty1on]

American Club

So close.....Americana

"Everything that couldn't be stuffed in California, Hawaii, or Canada" didn't roll off the tongue well enough.

 

[Hbushey]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses. I'm new to time sharing in general and have been thinking about it for about a year after staying in my moms HGVC 2 bedroom in Marbrisa. It was so fantastic to have the separate spaces with the kids! We were originally looking at HGVC, but with Shell we get the locations we want and the Free aspect means our MF are paid for like 10 years compared to the initial out of pocket for HGVC.

One last question.
Do the Shell points trade directly into Wyndham since they took over or do you have to go through the trade company for that?
If so, what kind of booking window is there?

 

[Ty1on]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses. I'm new to time sharing in general and have been thinking about it for about a year after staying in my moms HGVC 2 bedroom in Marbrisa. It was so fantastic to have the separate spaces with the kids! We were originally looking at HGVC, but with Shell we get the locations we want and the Free aspect means our MF are paid for like 10 years compared to the initial out of pocket for HGVC.

One last question.
Do the Shell points trade directly into Wyndham since they took over or do you have to go through the trade company for that?
If so, what kind of booking window is there?

You can't use Shell points for Wyndham properties, and unless Club Wyndham happens to own some intervals in shell properties, you can't use Wyndham points for Shell.

btw, look at the points requirements for the places you want to go, and check out the maintenance fees for that size contract. Shell is pretty high, so there is a trade-off between up-front purchase (0) and ongoing maintenance fees.

 

[alexadeparis]

Also you can't currently get at Wyndham inventory through Shell via Interval because most Wyndhams trade through RCI. There is talk of Shell going back to RCI as the exchange co in which case I will probably give away a contract.

 

[MULTIZ321]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses. I'm new to time sharing in general and have been thinking about it for about a year after staying in my moms HGVC 2 bedroom in Marbrisa. It was so fantastic to have the separate spaces with the kids! We were originally looking at HGVC, but with Shell we get the locations we want and the Free aspect means our MF are paid for like 10 years compared to the initial out of pocket for HGVC.

One last question.
Do the Shell points trade directly into Wyndham since they took over or do you have to go through the trade company for that?
If so, what kind of booking window is there?

Heather,

Welcome to Tug. I suggest you become a member - best $15 you'll spend this year. One of the many bennies is access to the Timeshare reviews and also the Sightings Forum.


Richard

 

[Hbushey]

Heather,

Welcome to Tug. I suggest you become a member - best $15 you'll spend this year. One of the many bennies is access to the Timeshare reviews and also the Sightings Forum.


Richard

I did become a member when I first started looking last year. It's been a great resource to try and understand everything. I think I have found the right fit for my families current needs with Shell. i think we will start small and add points if it works well for us. I saw on earlier postings as long as it's the same club you can combine contracts and pay less MF. I really like that so I can minimize my commitment until I know if timesharing is right for us.

Thanks!

 

[Hbushey]

One Last Question

I was noticing on the Shell website the Oregon and Wisconsin properties are not listed. Did these properties leave the Shell Vacation Club? Whispering woods and Little Sweeden.

 

[presley]

I was noticing on the Shell website the Oregon and Wisconsin properties are not listed. Did these properties leave the Shell Vacation Club? Whispering woods and Little Sweeden.

They are both in the club. Whispering Woods is part of the West club.

 

[MULTIZ321]

I did become a member when I first started looking last year. It's been a great resource to try and understand everything. I think I have found the right fit for my families current needs with Shell. i think we will start small and add points if it works well for us. I saw on earlier postings as long as it's the same club you can combine contracts and pay less MF. I really like that so I can minimize my commitment until I know if timesharing is right for us.

Thanks!

Hi Heather,

See this Tug posting for how to change your status from 'Guest' to 'Member'

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230160


Best regards,

Richard

 

[alexadeparis]

I was noticing on the Shell website the Oregon and Wisconsin properties are not listed. Did these properties leave the Shell Vacation Club? Whispering woods and Little Sweeden.

Little Sweden is in Americana club.

 

[team2win]

be careful purchasing shell/wyndham

If you haven't gathered by now, Shell Vacation Club was purchased by Wyndham. Wyndham is expert in getting more money from it's membership base, unlike Shell Vacation Club. It will matter how many points you buy, because the point values that are currently in place, may not be the point values after you buy.

1. I recently found out yesterday that Desert Rose Resort Sep 19th, now requires 1950 points for ONE NIGHT, previously, like Sep 4th and the following weekend and all previously this year the point value was 1650 or less for a Friday or Saturday night. So they are increasing point values without any notificaions, votes, etc.. The reason this is significant, this is requires more points than the flagship Vino Bello Resort in Napa and Desert Rose Resort isn't nearly the resort Vino Bello is. I'm sure this scenario will happen with other resorts, I just haven't looked.

2. Shell is now run fully by Wyndham which means inventory manipulation, blackouts, etc will be much more common place for Shell Club point owners. I've been at the counter at The Donatello about why no inventory any longer with long time shell points owners arguing with front desk personnel about dried up inventory, but yet, you can go to Wyndham Extra Holidays and reserve using rentals, lmao.

3. It does matter which club you own in with regard to maintenance fees.
Here's the maintenance fee breakdown from 2015 - Wyndham numbers: The Americana club & West Clubs are the most expensive in my opinion because of the .23 per point value vs other clubs under .20. Again, the amount of points you have in a club does matter. Make sure you purchase in 1 club, cause if you purchase in 2 different clubs, you have two Base points fees, plus 2 separate variable rates, meaning 2 separate maintenance fee accounts.

Shell Base Points: 2015
Club Fee: $165 for resale - Founding
Premier Club Fee: $486
Elite Club Fee: $583
Americana: 1250 base points: $321.91, .2331 variable rate
Hawaii: 2000 base points: $601.97, .1899 variable rate
Pacific: 1250 base points: $398.38, .2354 variable rate
West: 1350 base points: 330.41, .1975 variable rate

Here's the breakdown prior to Wyndham owning Shell Vacation Club, huge different in maintenance fees now. With probably a rise every year.

Shell West Club
Base: $325 for first 1350 points and .165 points thereafter
Club fee: $152
Total: $477

Shell Hawaii Club
Base: $560 for first 2000 points and .165 points thereafter
Club fee: $152
Total: $712

4. There used to be 15 days or less a great point rental program, .15 cents a point with Shell, now Wyndham put their twist on it. If they have discounted points, meaning, they reduced the points for the dates you need, you NO LONGER can get the .15 cent per point rental deduction, you have to pay .25 cents per point to rent the points. So now, you may notice discounted points on certain days at certain resorts within 15 days, so members can't take advantage of the .15 cent a point rental rate.

5. The computer system with Shell Vacation Club(points owners) and Wyndham Extra Holidays(THE RENTAL WEBSITE) nearly mirror each other. You can basically go to Wyndham Extra Holidays and check availability and it will nearly be identical to logging into your shell vacation club account and looking for availability.

Good luck and welcome to the madness...

 

[Ty1on]

If you haven't gathered by now, Shell Vacation Club was purchased by Wyndham. Wyndham is expert in getting more money from it's membership base, unlike Shell Vacation Club. It will matter how many points you buy, because the point values that are currently in place, may not be the point values after you buy.

1. I recently found out yesterday that Desert Rose Resort Sep 19th, now requires 1950 points for ONE NIGHT, previously, like Sep 4th and the following weekend and all previously this year the point value was 1650 or less for a Friday or Saturday night. So they are increasing point values without any notificaions, votes, etc.. The reason this is significant, this is requires more points than the flagship Vino Bello Resort in Napa and Desert Rose Resort isn't nearly the resort Vino Bello is. I'm sure this scenario will happen with other resorts, I just haven't looked.

2. Shell is now run fully by Wyndham which means inventory manipulation, blackouts, etc will be much more common place for Shell Club point owners. I've been at the counter at The Donatello about why no inventory any longer with long time shell points owners arguing with front desk personnel about dried up inventory, but yet, you can go to Wyndham Extra Holidays and reserve using rentals, lmao.

3. It does matter which club you own in with regard to maintenance fees.
Here's the maintenance fee breakdown from 2015 - Wyndham numbers: The Americana club & West Clubs are the most expensive in my opinion because of the .23 per point value vs other clubs under .20. Again, the amount of points you have in a club does matter. Make sure you purchase in 1 club, cause if you purchase in 2 different clubs, you have two Base points fees, plus 2 separate variable rates, meaning 2 separate maintenance fee accounts.

Shell Base Points: 2015
Club Fee: $165 for resale - Founding
Premier Club Fee: $486
Elite Club Fee: $583
Americana: 1250 base points: $321.91, .2331 variable rate
Hawaii: 2000 base points: $601.97, .1899 variable rate
Pacific: 1250 base points: $398.38, .2354 variable rate
West: 1350 base points: 330.41, .1975 variable rate

Here's the breakdown prior to Wyndham owning Shell Vacation Club, huge different in maintenance fees now. With probably a rise every year.

Shell West Club
Base: $325 for first 1350 points and .165 points thereafter
Club fee: $152
Total: $477

Shell Hawaii Club
Base: $560 for first 2000 points and .165 points thereafter
Club fee: $152
Total: $712

4. There used to be 15 days or less a great point rental program, .15 cents a point with Shell, now Wyndham put their twist on it. If they have discounted points, meaning, they reduced the points for the dates you need, you NO LONGER can get the .15 cent per point rental deduction, you have to pay .25 cents per point to rent the points. So now, you may notice discounted points on certain days at certain resorts within 15 days, so members can't take advantage of the .15 cent a point rental rate.

5. The computer system with Shell Vacation Club(points owners) and Wyndham Extra Holidays(THE RENTAL WEBSITE) nearly mirror each other. You can basically go to Wyndham Extra Holidays and check availability and it will nearly be identical to logging into your shell vacation club account and looking for availability.

Good luck and welcome to the madness...

In fairness, it should be noted that while Shell's cost of ownership was less expensive, it was entering into Chapter 7 bankrupcy when Wyndham bought it. Chapter 7 is liqudation of assets, not protection from creditors.

I can't agree or disagree with Wyndham's handling of inventory, etc., because I haven't experienced it, but it wouldn't make sense to take over a bankrupt organization and run it status quo. I read that Americana SOA was in a $3M deficit when Wyndham took over.

 

[Bill4728]

I own 3 weeks at Shell's mountainside lodge in Whistler BC which are not associated with shell vacations. The cost to convert these weeks to Shell (SVC) was outrageous. This worked for us because we wanted to go to Whistler most of the time.

 

[Hbushey]

Newbie...need help (Shell)

I've beening lurking and thinking about buying into a timeshare... The more I learn the more hesitant I am to making the jump.

I live within an 8 hr drive to just about any location in California. It's a beautiful state and we love visiting but we don't do it nearly enough. I'm looking to purchase Worldmark or take over a Shell West membership. We want to have short weekend trips into resorts in California. Anaheim, San Diego, San Fransisco, Napa primarily with 2 kids. We want 2 bedroom units.

Reading about megarenters and Wyndham reserving until for their own rental market I'm concerned the point based systems are some kind of scheme where unsuspecting consumers pay each year then never get an opportunity to stay. The forums of tips for getting reservations through Worldmark scared me. Having to book "throw away" weeks just to get a reservation?!?

Are there any consumer protections in laws for us? Is there a limit to the number of points/ memberships that can be issued. Can Wyndham arbitrarily raise point cost to book a unit so they can add and then sell more memberships? If there are more memberships and points then rooms then what are you buying and paying for?

For shell owners, is booking less than a week long stay in the following resorts each year within the allowed booking window for short stays impossible?

1. Vino
2. Suites at Fishermans wharf
3. Peacock
4. Inn at the Park

Thanks!

 

[tschwa2]

I am not familiar with the partial week booking window for shell but would you be able to choose a weekend and commit as soon as the booking window opens up be it 8, 10 or 12 months in advance? Would you have some flexibility that if your first choice in date and location are not available other weekends would work? Are you aware that the points requirement for weekends are quite a bit higher than weekday stays?

 

[taterhed]

I'll make a few brief statements ( I need to be less long-winded here)

• Worldmark is trading very fluently now. Almost like cash. Buy, sell, rent, trade. Affordable, buy small and rent if needed. Don't like it, sell it. Small loss and small Mx fees. Can't use? Rent out points.
• If you 'over-read' the advanced trading/booking techniques, then I'm sure you're overwhelmed. just because there are many avenues to trade/book doesn't mean you must use them all or need to. If you're trying to find ways to defeat the rules designed to prevent people from snatching up the best 3 day weekends in peak season (ruining the week for others) then you'll need to work for it. If you see a Thur/Fri (only) or partial week open at a great property...then book it if it lets you. how hard was that?
• If you are close enough to drive, then find something you can see and book it, exchange for it or use bonus time (cash for stay).Go look at the Worldmark right now and see what specials you could drive to on a long weekend.
• Want to try exchanges? RCI or II or any of the secondary (open membership) ones. Even SFX.

JMHO beats W (unless you have the big points power) beats shell (MF's and Wyndham).
Worst case? you spend a few grand on vacations and decide to sell. Best? you exchange into a HGVC shoulder week for 4000 points ($250 + HKT+exchange fee).

That seems shorter.

 

[Hbushey]

I am not familiar with the partial week booking window for shell but would you be able to choose a weekend and commit as soon as the booking window opens up be it 8, 10 or 12 months in advance? Would you have some flexibility that if your first choice in date and location are not available other weekends would work? Are you aware that the points requirement for weekends are quite a bit higher than weekday stays?

I was told For Shell West it is 308 days out from another Tugger in a previous post.

I would stay probably Sat-Tues on weekends during school year (off season) where the kids had a long weekend (Monday off). For example Presidents' Day, Columbus day, Martin Luther King day etc... They also have some random Monday's for teacher prep. I would know what days these are when the school calendar comes out about a year ahead of time. I was looking to book mostly in the off season because I really don't like crowds and my points would go further. Disneyland in January, Sea World in Setember or October for example...

I don't want to have to set my alarm and sit by the computer trying to book when the lottery opens with 10,000 other people like trying to get good concert tickets... I would try to book within a few days or a week of the booking window opening though.

I found point charts for Shell on tuggs, but they are older. I would think this is a set amount for the current resorts as there would be a set number of rooms and days when those resorts went up and memberships were sold. The wild card is, can Wyndham arbitrarily sell more points then there are rooms and days? Can they change the point cost for a room arbitrarily to add more memberships to sell or are the number of points available for a specific resort set in stone and protected by contract or law?

 

[Hbushey]

I'll make a few brief statements ( I need to be less long-winded here)

• Worldmark is trading very fluently now. Almost like cash. Buy, sell, rent, trade. Affordable, buy small and rent if needed. Don't like it, sell it. Small loss and small Mx fees. Can't use? Rent out points.
• If you 'over-read' the advanced trading/booking techniques, then I'm sure you're overwhelmed. just because there are many avenues to trade/book doesn't mean you must use them all or need to.
• If you are close enough to drive, then find something you can see and book it, exchange for it or use bonus time (cash for stay).Go look at the Worldmark right now and see what specials you could drive to on a long weekend.
• Want to try exchanges? RCI or II or any of the secondary (open membership) ones. Even SFX.

JMHO beats W (unless you have the big points power) beats shell.
Worst case? you spend a few grand on vacations and decide to sell. Best? you exchange into a HGVC shoulder week for 4000 points ($250 + HKT+exchange fee).

That seems shorter.

I was starting to consider Worldmark more but after reading the trouble with reservations I got scared. I found links for the available Monday Madness currently and none of the places I wanted were there except San Diego location that posters referred to as being in a questionable neighborhood. I worried that the locations I want are the desireable resorts that people scheme to get and feel like they won the lottery when they finally secure a reservation.

Funny you mentioned HGVC, it was after a stay last September at the Marbrisa on my moms timeshare that I started looking. We almost bought an HGVC contract at that time, but backed out after the seller misrepresented things. Now I'm afraid to outlay such a huge sum and not be able to book. We want the 2 bedroom places.

We tried VRBO for a trip to Disneyland but after security deposits, housekeeping fees and high per night cost it was $1350 for four nights. It also had a lot of deferred maintenance and we had to get up extra early to was all the linens in order to get our deposit back.

I guess I'm looking for a 2 bedroom like the Marbrisa. If I'm paying $150 for housekeeping I don't want to stick around and clean and do laundry.

 

[vacationhopeful]

I have VIP-level status with Wyndham points. My sibling collection has mostly move to the Western US. I don't like the idea of paying MFs to Wyndham and then add another $99 to reserve a Shell resort -- if I can get anything that matches the "siblings' idea" of using timeshares for a get-together.

I also own Shell ... before taking on the Shell membership, I visited a Shell resort WHERE I knew I could get the tribe to roost ... and the resort was perfect. Two of my siblings did come & stay 4 or 5 nights the 1st year after getting a FREE contract ... and it was great. The next year ... I got ALL of them to come during a 10 night stay I have booked for me plus extra space for a LONG weekend (I had also acquired MORE Shell points & booked one of those short stays via Wyndham points).

Did I care if Shell might have higher MFs than my Wyndham points? AND no as the difference was NOT a jaw dropping number. I was hoping I could get the midMarch stays I wanted for Spring Training ... and mostly weekends as my nearest and HARDEST family member could only attend (plus a 2nd family member is also working).

So I could book 10 months in advance with my Shell points; book multiple units; checking in on all of them; ask to be kept in the same building (no problem).

And we all loved the resort - gas BBQs, nice tennis courts; pretty golf course; large pool, clean & well stocked unit; good parking; midweek reset. Yes, I have been around Wyndham for YEARS .. some of this no doubt will change somewhat.

But as any timeshare owner knows ... plan way far in advance for PRIME season trips and cancel within the window in that system; know the banking rules; use the external exchange company as a last resort.

And I got several contracts ... I can slim down ... and as they were FREE.

PS Wyndham has Ovation in play with their Wyndham points system... and it seems to be very well used by owners. Will they put it "in play" for their other timeshare systems? Or is the question, really HOW long til they offer a version of Ovation within the other 2 systems?

 

[Hbushey]

I have VIP-level status with Wyndham points. My sibling collection has mostly move to the Western US. I don't like the idea of paying MFs to Wyndham and then add another $99 to reserve a Shell resort -- if I can get anything that matches the "siblings' idea" of using timeshares for a get-together.

I also own Shell ... before taking on the Shell membership, I visited a Shell resort WHERE I knew I could get the tribe to roost ... and the resort was perfect. Two of my siblings did come & stay 4 or 5 nights the 1st year after getting a FREE contract ... and it was great. The next year ... I got ALL of them to come during a 10 night stay I have booked for me plus extra space for a LONG weekend (I had also acquired MORE Shell points & booked one of those short stays via Wyndham points).

Did I care if Shell might have higher MFs than my Wyndham points? AND no as the difference was NOT a jaw dropping number. I was hoping I could get the midMarch stays I wanted for Spring Training ... and mostly weekends as my nearest and HARDEST family member could only attend (plus a 2nd family member is also working).

So I could book 10 months in advance with my Shell points; book multiple units; checking in on all of them; ask to be kept in the same building (no problem).

And we all loved the resort - gas BBQs, nice tennis courts; pretty golf course; large pool, clean & well stocked unit; good parking; midweek reset. Yes, I have been around Wyndham for YEARS .. some of this no doubt will change somewhat.

But as any timeshare owner knows ... plan way far in advance for PRIME season trips and cancel within the window in that system; know the banking rules; use the external exchange company as a last resort.

And I got several contracts ... I can slim down ... and as they were FREE.

PS Wyndham has Ovation in play with their Wyndham points system... and it seems to be very well used by owners. Will they put it "in play" for their other timeshare systems? Or is the question, really HOW long til they offer a version of Ovation within the other 2 systems?

The higher maintenance fees don't bother me either IF I'm able to use it. Do the higher maintenance fees keep the megarenters that are a problem with Worldmark from using Shell? Does the home resort booking window mean you can book what you want each year with some flexibility on when...

Have you tried to book Vino, Suites at Fishermans wharf, Peacock or Inn at the Park? If so what did availability look like?

 

[taterhed]

Not sure about the laundry comment. Maybe you don't understand HKT's?

Good luck with your search.
I own two Marriott's. I like nice digs. Hilton is also very nice....Marriott was just a better fit. But, it ain't cheap.

There have a been a few free HGVC's: 1 br EOY etc... but still over $1000 mf's for max 1 br. Marriott trades well, but again....MF's over $1000 (well over) and always trading. Plus, ROFR to defeat with most of these.

I own WM as well: because the fun isn't just the kill, it's in the hunt.

 

[vacationhopeful]

The higher maintenance fees don't bother me either IF I'm able to use it. Do the higher maintenance fees keep the megarenters that are a problem with Worldmark from using Shell? Does the home resort booking window mean you can book what you want each year with some flexibility on when...

Have you tried to book Vino, Suites at Fishermans wharf, Peacock or Inn at the Park? If so what did availability look like?

I looked at Inn at the Park for a niece wedding .... in late July for March dates. I hate flying 3000 plus miles for a 2 night wedding in a vineyard 45 miles east of San Diego. Wide open ... no problem. Was waiting for MORE definite dates before booking pre/post stays with some of the gang.

Timeshares are still a more RESORT idea thing. Or where there are BIG PARTIES with limited access (New Orleans with its Gulf and swamps) or the beaches or theme parks. Cities tend to have hotels with "booking engines" groups. And you have to have a LARGE population who can DRIVE to a resort. In many ways with a full kitchen & living room ... it is a family vacation attraction life style.