MAJOR Wyndham Problem --- Help!!!

[vacationhopeful]

Hang around .. I do NOT work for Wyndham; just another owner with Wyndham.

I try to avoid having chaos and/or added stress in my life.

 

[ace2000]

Thanks Linda,
Sounds Like a lawyer and a class action lawsuit it is.

What's the class action lawsuit going to be based on? I think you've got some good advice on this thread with a few options, but unless you can prove something in writing, you're not going to get very far with any lawsuit. Unfortunately, you have a lot of company with many others that believe they were wronged by a Wyndham sales rep. But it comes down to the paperwork you signed.

I hope it works out for you though... good luck!

 

[tkokid]

What's the class action lawsuit going to be based on? I think you've got some good advice on this thread with a few options, but unless you can prove something in writing, you're not going to get very far with any lawsuit. Unfortunately, you have a lot of company with many others that believe they were wronged by a Wyndham sales rep. But it comes down to the paperwork you signed.

I hope it works out for you though... good luck!

Class action will be based on the fact that Wyndham can't dictate how payments are applied to an account. That would be like me going to a grocery store, putting two loaves of bread in the shopping cart then deciding at the checkout, that I only want one. Then the store, AFTER taking my money, says that if I don't pay for both, then I can't have either and keeps me from the benefits of the one I have paid for.

I can use that same analogy with real estate properties.

It's like Wyndham is saying that since they own both mortgages (and this is a property mortgage), they can decide on which property my payment goes to. I compare it to owning your primary residence and a rental property. Lets say you are current on your primary residence mortgage payment but you are in default on your rental property. The bank can not make you move out of your primary residence and repo both properties because you are in default of the rental property mortgage. They can put a lean on the primary but they can't keep you from living there, repossess it, or keep you from enjoying the benefits of that primary residence. It's not lawful to do so and that is EXACTLY what Wyndham is trying to do...

 

[tkokid]

BTW... Just for the record, I have been around this group for about 4-5 years now. I found it shortly after I purchased my Cypress Palms property. I am not sure why my join date shows March 2015 but that is far from the case. This is my first thread but I have been lurking for QUITE some time. There was a property that I even helped with the transfer of to a friend of mine which was at least 2 years ago. I didn't help anymore than hooking the two of them up to negotiate but I still feel like I helped....

 

[ace2000]

This topic has come up in the past, I'm sure. There may be other helpful information in one of the previous threads. Anyway, good luck on getting it resolved.

 

[tkokid]

This topic has come up in the past, I'm sure. There may be other helpful information in one of the previous threads. Anyway, good luck on getting it resolved.

Thank you

 

[tschwa2]

Class action will be based on the fact that Wyndham can't dictate how payments are applied to an account. That would be like me going to a grocery store, putting two loaves of bread in the shopping cart then deciding at the checkout, that I only want one. Then the store, AFTER taking my money, says that if I don't pay for both, then I can't have either and keeps me from the benefits of the one I have paid for.

I can use that same analogy with real estate properties.

It's like Wyndham is saying that since they own both mortgages (and this is a property mortgage), they can decide on which property my payment goes to. I compare it to owning your primary residence and a rental property. Lets say you are current on your primary residence mortgage payment but you are in default on your rental property. The bank can not make you move out of your primary residence and repo both properties because you are in default of the rental property mortgage. They can put a lean on the primary but they can't keep you from living there, repossess it, or keep you from enjoying the benefits of that primary residence. It's not lawful to do so and that is EXACTLY what Wyndham is trying to do...

You need to take a look at the documents- public offering documents,cc& r's Wynham points plus, etc . I would imagine there are 100's if not 1000's of pages of what they can and can't do. Wyndham is also a membership, that you voluntarily joined by purchasing those properties. Their rules can modify what you think would be logical in terms of how payments are credited. I know I have a credit card that if I have multiple offers like no interest if paid in 6 months, some regular purchases and cash advance, the credit card company decides how my payment applies to my account. I think it is generally highest interest first which may mean that the one that has no interest if paid in a certain time may not get paid in that time even though I sent in more than enough to cover that amount.

 

[55plus]

Bottom-line, never trust a Wyndham sales weasel, never. When they are talking they are also lying. Unfortunately you found out firsthand and I'm sorry for that. It's not the end of the world. Consider it a lesson learned and enjoy what you have. Get current and take a vacation. The longer you own and use it be better and more enjoyable it becomes...

 

[Passepartout]

Class action will be based on the fact that Wyndham can't dictate how payments are applied to an account

The catch of starting a class action is to find a cause, with wide enough group of damaged parties, that a law firm can afford to contact all the potential clients, sign them up, and the party who causes the damage has deep enough pockets, AND the knowledge that their actions were causing damage, AND it can be proven.

Not saying that you were (are) not damaged, but the odds of recruiting a law firm to pursue Wyndham over sales practices are pretty slim. You might as well stand on a beach and shovel sand against the incoming tide. You'll feel good about the fight, but have very little effect on the tide.

Simply writing on your checks, "To be applied to account #________" would at least give you credence that your payments are earmarked to where YOU want them to go.

Jim

 

[am1]

The two timeshares are in one account. The account needs to be kept current to be able to use either set of points or transfer new contracts in or out.

You would be wasting your time taking wyndham to court over that aspect. You are shortchanging over owners by not paying the monthly fees not wyndham.

If you want to take the fight to Wyndham take it to them over being lied to. It will not be easy and take a long time and mostly you will lose.

Me I make things right by getting the best value I can out of my timeshares.

 

[DEScottzz]

Tkokid, I just hate to see you having such a bad stomach ache over this. You can bet that Trent Watsizname doesn't have a stomach ache, and there's nothing you can do to give him one. No matter how many times you call or what legal action you may take, you can't transfer your stomach ache to him.

Hiring a lawyer is going to make your stomach ache worse, not better, because it will just prolong the time that you spend thinking about it. Every check you write to your lawyer will only make your stomach hurt more.

The best thing you can do to make your stomach feel better is to realize that believing a timeshare salesman was a mistake, but that you won't make that mistake again. Then put it behind you.

I'm dealing with a similar situation myself. It's not about money, but it's about trust. The advice I'm giving you I also give to myself every day, so I know it's not easy to follow, but I know it will give the best outcome.

 

[MaryBella7]

It's like Wyndham is saying that since they own both mortgages (and this is a property mortgage), they can decide on which property my payment goes to. I compare it to owning your primary residence and a rental property. Lets say you are current on your primary residence mortgage payment but you are in default on your rental property. The bank can not make you move out of your primary residence and repo both properties because you are in default of the rental property mortgage. They can put a lean on the primary but they can't keep you from living there, repossess it, or keep you from enjoying the benefits of that primary residence. It's not lawful to do so and that is EXACTLY what Wyndham is trying to do...

I don't know the answer, and you may have already done this, but probably the least expensive route to begin is to have a contracts lawyer check the contracts to ensure that what you signed didn't somehow give them a legal right to prevent you from using any of your Wyndham properties if you default on one. Once again, I do not know, but having a professional check that first might be the best, and least expensive, way to start.

I do know that there are benefits to having the properties in one account - we get to combine our points from properties to make reservations, which is a good thing. I guess that combination also comes with the bad. I sincerely have no idea of any of the legalities, and am not trying to give you any kind of law lesson - I am not qualified!

I, too, am a fighter, but I have fought enough losing battles, however justified, to know that my own peace and health are best when I let it go and learn my lesson about the bad side of humanity. I would start with a professional analysis of your contracts to see if this is a battle you have any hope of winning. If you go full in on a lawsuit, you may end up just as aggravated and angry as you are now (if not more so), with less money in your pocket.

 

[Ron2]

Having read this entire thread, it appears that your primary complaint is that Wyndham will not let you separate your 2 contracts so you can stop payments on the Glacier Canyon contract (MF and loan). Since you have paid for and likely used the points from the GC contract for 5 years makes it very unlikely that you could prove that Wyndham is not providing what you signed up for. The fact that your two contracts were combined gave you a lower annual fee because the CG contract standing alone would have been charged the minimum Program Fee and not the 55-cents per 1000 points, so you have benefited by combining the contracts. If I correctly understand one of your previous posts, you still only owe $7000 on the GC contract plus the MF that you refuse to pay. To hire a lawyer to fight this would likely cost you more than just paying Wyndham and moving on (using or selling GC). Most of us have been lied to by timeshare salesmen, costing many of us far more than what you owe, but that doesn't much matter because it is difficult to prove and the contracts we sign cover all the bases to protect Wyndham. Good luck!

 

[brigian]

Although you were scammed by sales weasels don't throw good money after bad.

Being a business man I would have to agree with wyndham cutting your membership privileges. To put it in simple everyday life terms (as you have), suppose you buy a costco membership for $50 and purchase TV for a $1000, you write them a check that is NSF. You go back a week later and want to buy a table for $500 and have the cash in your hand. Do you think they will sell you the table for $500 even though you have cash before clearing up the $1000 nsf payment ? Lets take it one step further and pretend your wife is joint on the account but has her own card, do you think they will sell your wife the table knowing that THAT account owes $1000 for NSF check ?

The answer is no and I wouldn't do it either. This is just a simple thread with a bunch of nobody's blowing hot air ( myself included ), imagine how a billion dollar company and their lawyers cover themselves.

People get scammed for millions from stock markets, financial advisors, lawyers, con artists, real estate agents, mortgage brokers etc etc etc. Pay your $7000 and enjoy what you have, you'll be much better off.

Sorry for my honesty.

 

[DeniseM]

You have zero chance of winning a lawsuit. It will cost you thousands to pursue this, and you will lose anyway. Apply the funds to your timeshare, pay it off, and enjoy your timeshare.

 

[Pathways]

Sounds Like a lawyer and a class action lawsuit it is.

Wow! Do you realize how long the line is for this?

Class action will be based on the fact that Wyndham can't dictate how payments are applied to an account.

Of course they can. I am not aware of ANY business that can't direct any and all payments received to the oldest balance due. Standard and accepted practice.

Your only recourse (although it's abundantly clear you have no interest in doing this) in to transfer the deed for the Cypress Palms out of your name so that the accounts are then separate. First, you must make the complete account current. You could then stiff the GC account, but that still will not gain you anything.

This was a real estate transaction which must be in writing, and ONLY what is in writing is valid. Hold your breath, jump up and down, threaten all you want, it will change none of the material facts. Had this issue been caught early Wyndham may have wiggled a bit. Reality is they have every phone call you have made documented, and starred**, and the decision has probably been made that this one is 'going to the mat'

However, I wish you 'Good Luck', all of us hope you WIN!

 

[comicbookman]

Class action will be based on the fact that Wyndham can't dictate how payments are applied to an account. That would be like me going to a grocery store, putting two loaves of bread in the shopping cart then deciding at the checkout, that I only want one. Then the store, AFTER taking my money, says that if I don't pay for both, then I can't have either and keeps me from the benefits of the one I have paid for.

I can use that same analogy with real estate properties.

It's like Wyndham is saying that since they own both mortgages (and this is a property mortgage), they can decide on which property my payment goes to. I compare it to owning your primary residence and a rental property. Lets say you are current on your primary residence mortgage payment but you are in default on your rental property. The bank can not make you move out of your primary residence and repo both properties because you are in default of the rental property mortgage. They can put a lean on the primary but they can't keep you from living there, repossess it, or keep you from enjoying the benefits of that primary residence. It's not lawful to do so and that is EXACTLY what Wyndham is trying to do...

Actually, you have already agreed to pay maint fees on both properties. You also have already agreed to making a combined payment, which Wyndham then applies to both. (something you have been doing for 5 years). Wyndham is under no legal obligation to change the way the apply your payments at this late date. Additionally, I am pretty sure that Wyndham's terms of service state that an account can be suspended if maintenance is behind on any contract in that account. Even if they allocate your payment as you request, you would still be behind on Maint. on one contract, and your account would still get suspended. The mortgage is a separate obligation, subject to normal real estate and contract law.

 

[uscav8r]

Thanks Linda,
Sounds Like a lawyer and a class action lawsuit it is.
...I think I'll sue so this doesn't happen to anyone else. Thanks for the push. I appreciate it.

I did misrepresent myself in this thread a small bit and for that, I apologize. Fact is, I can afford a lawyer and that is EXACTLY what I am going to do. I just didn't want to have to go that route.

The main reason I opened this thread was to see if anyone had any other ideas. I know I have been wronged. I know Wyndham can't do (Legally) what they are trying to do. I was just hoping to get it settled without having to go that route and hoping maybe someone else had this happen to them and knew a way around it. I guess not.

Again, Thank you to everyone who responded constructively. Your advice and insight was much appreciated.

While it is within your right to initiate a class action lawsuit, consider that there are many on TUG (and outside TUG) who have attempted to go down this path with a variety of developers (not just Wyndham) and have had extremely little success.

So then the question becomes, how much will attorney's fees be, and how does that compare to paying off a $7k loan? Factor in the extremely low chance of success, and you may quickly find yourself on the hook for $7k in back maintenance fees PLUS your attorney's fees. Also consider that you may be opening yourself up to potential scam by a lawyer promising you the world but simply taking your retainer and ultimately delivering nothing.

None of the experts on here work for Wyndham. But many are providing practical advice based on experience and observations of similar situations.

 

[wed100105]

This has been an interesting thread! I am still in awe that you found a salesperson at Bonnet Creek that was honest with you! :hysterical::hysterical: Good luck with whatever it is you decide. I'm sure many of us know the pain of being lied to our faces when it comes to our timeshares.

 

[am1]

Remember your elected officials allow all of this.

If you want to pursue your best bet is small claims court as the costs are minimal. Its possible the contract states you bound to other means to resolve the issue.

Like others have stated paying for 5 years or so hurt your case.

 

[ace2000]

Your only recourse (although it's abundantly clear you have no interest in doing this) in to transfer the deed for the Cypress Palms out of your name so that the accounts are then separate. First, you must make the complete account current.

Actually this might be something to consider. Transfer to spouse or one of your children perhaps, and then add your name later?

 

[am1]

Actually this might be something to consider. Transfer to spouse or one of your children perhaps, and then add your name later?

Get the fees up to date first.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Okay .. IMHO good advice given to OP. He decided on his course of action MONTHS ago when he stopped paying on his legal obligations - his loan and his member number's maintenance fees.

IMHO, he is tilting at windmills with a wooden shaft while riding a horse and dressed in an iron suit. BUT, the OP apparently has far superior intellect than us, lots of legal experience and wealth we all can only dream about. He wants to right the wrongs of the timeshare world. GO FOR IT .... stranger things have happen and I am sure, OP will update us all when he proves us WRONG and he is RIGHT.

Meanwhile, I am just going to continue on with my pitiful & petty small little life - enjoying a vacation stay every month or two at a Wyndham resort (NYC in May and Jul 4th Skyline Tower) ... booking my winter Snowbird vacations in Pompano for 2016, etc.

 

[WinniWoman]

Okay .. IMHO good advice given to OP. He decided on his course of action MONTHS ago when he stopped paying on his legal obligations - his loan and his member number's maintenance fees.

IMHO, he is tilting at windmills with a wooden shaft while riding a horse and dressed in an iron suit. BUT, the OP apparently has far superior intellect than us, lots of legal experience and wealth we all can only dream about. He wants to right the wrongs of the timeshare world. GO FOR IT .... stranger things have happen and I am sure, OP will update us all when he proves us WRONG and he is RIGHT.

Meanwhile, I am just going to continue on with my pitiful & petty small little life - enjoying a vacation stay every month or two at a Wyndham resort (NYC in May and Jul 4th Skyline Tower) ... booking my winter Snowbird vacations in Pompano for 2016, etc.

\


Excellent. Linda! Enjoy it all! All those pathetic little excursions! LOL!:hysterical:

 

[Bigrob]

One only has to watch a few of the many "Wyndham scammed us" videos on youtube to see this is probably more the rule than the exception, unfortunately, when it comes to "over-selling" the benefits you get when you buy.

Fundamentally, the OP has the following complaints:

1. A salesman told him that the purchase of the contract would combine with the resale to produce a VIP account... rather than having it written into the contract, it was provided (as is almost always the case) through bonus points, not through "washing" the resale contract status to reset at developer.

There is extensive evidence that any legal action on this will be non-productive and just result in legal expenses.

2. Since the assumed benefits of purchase are not being extended or provided, OP wants to sever the two contracts and treat them as separate entities.

As others have said, it is possible to separate/move contracts from one member number to another - if they are current.It may be less expensive to get current, move the CP to a new member account, then follow through with your disposition strategy.

If a certain attorney has been reading the boards lately, he has probably already reached out to you. Your thread is probably providing additional fodder for several lawsuits he's pursuing against Wyndham (although he is typically representing "Mega Renters" who bought millions and millions of points and then had rules changed on them after the fact). Nonetheless, I just have to urge you caution here - unfortunately there are attorneys who are almost as bad as timeshares sales weasels - more than happy to take up your "case"... I had one give me an interpretation that "this is absolutely actionable, you can get treble damages, etc." and wanted to get started immediately with a demand letter... uhm, let's just take care of this retainer first... had another attorney look at it and he quickly poked all the holes in it and said, "sure, I could go after this, but it will not be productive and here's why."

It felt good to hear the first attorney tell me I had a clear case, treble damages, and so forth... but I was very grateful to have an honest attorney give me the true scenario and spare me wasted time and money.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I think you have enough input from the community to assess the likelihood of success through a legal action.