Timeshare "Sunset" or Self-Destruct clause - 2020! Every timeshare owner should read!

[TUGBrian]

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223720

 

[Beefnot]

Do you have a link to one? I already linked to an example where the opposite happened.

I don't, just remembered seeing it somewhere. Will have to do some dedicated searches to try to find the examples.

EDIT: Oh wait, TUGBrian did the work for me. I think there are other random threads/posts out there as well.

 

[Maple_Leaf]

Vacation Villas at FantasyWorld in Kissimmee?

The Sep/Oct 2013 edition of Timesharing Today (page 19) had a short description of an interesting scheme at Vacation Villas at FantasyWorld in Kissimmee to allow owners to pay at the time of purchase to surrender their deed in 2020:

Also, the resort began on July 1, 2013, to allow owners to choose how many years of deeded ownership they want to retain. The deeds are supposed to self-destruct in 2020. “Owners can pay now to surrender their deed and not be an owner, but still have the usage,” Weinland says. “I don’t know how it’s going to work.

If those intervals were subsequently resold (e.g. on Ebay), the new owner may be in for a surprise in 2020 when the deed "self-destructs."

I'm still scratching my head about this one.

 

[theo]

Speculation, based upon insufficient facts...

The Sep/Oct 2013 edition of Timesharing Today (page 19) had a short description of an interesting scheme at Vacation Villas at FantasyWorld in Kissimmee to allow owners to pay at the time of purchase to surrender their deed in 2020:



If those intervals were subsequently resold (e.g. on Ebay), the new owner may be in for a surprise in 2020 when the deed "self-destructs."

I'm still scratching my head about this one.

No resort can ever (lawfully) unilaterally, entirely on its' own, in any way alter the content of its' underlying recorded governing documents. Period, amen.

Accordingly, my guess (...and yes, it's only a completely uninformed guess, knowing nothing whatsoever about this particular facility) is that the underlying governing documents already clearly identify 2020 as the "sunset" date for the facility. If that's the case, then these owners (and their potential successors in any subsequent resales) are essentially relinquishing, well in advance, their input, their vote (and any potential proceeds if a property sale occurred later), by virtue of having agreed, in writing and long in advance, to voluntarily cease their legal standing as owners when the sunset year of 2020 arrives. No improper / unlawful "alteration" of existing recorded governing documents would have occurred in this (purely speculative) scenario.

This would theoretically facilitate getting whatever majority percentage of votes might be required to decide on the future of the facility at that time, since those folks who "signed on" for this "exit" will presumably and essentially be off the voting rolls at that time, with their prior knowledge and consent, with no voice whatsoever in the decision / voting process after the 2020 "sunset" is reached. There could then be just a very small number of owners remaining at that point, greatly reducing the burden of acquiring the required majority to decide the status and future of the facility.

Mere speculation on my part, submitted just as food for thought and in response to the above post --- but it's certainly not at all a far fetched scenario.

 

[Goofyhobbie]

Barrier Island Station - Duck, NC - Termination Provision

Thanks Brian for creating this thought provoking thread.

As we now know, The Board of Directors (BOD) of the Association at Barrier Island Station - Duck, NC (BIS) are actively working to resolve the issue that they have; but the BOD are faced with a huge hurdle in first getting in touch with all the owners of record and then getting those owners to agree to amend the Declaration of Interval Ownership.

Meanwhile and to keep the subject current a link to a more current thread regarding Barrier Island Station's Termination Provision is provided here: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232756

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Note that in most cases developer systems based on an ownership trust don't have to face this issue. In many cases the trust owns virtually all of the deeds, so the vote will be whatever the trust management wants it to be. I would imagine that in almost all cases the trust would vote to continue the program.

 

[chalee94]

Brian, this is also included on the deed for Foxrun/Fairway of the Mountains in Lake Lure, North. Carolina.

Still have several friends and family that DO own there....wonder what the ramifications will be?

I went to the owners meeting at Fairways of the Mountain this year and the sunset provision came up.

I was a little surprised but the VRI rep did not seem to consider it to be very likely. While I liked the VRI rep, I do wonder if self-interest was involved (i.e. VRI would prefer the timeshare to continue so that they continue to receive the fees).

My impressions from the meeting were that the Fairways ownership tended to skew heavily to the older/retired demographic...and if that doesn't change over the next 10-12 years, with younger families taking over ownership, I don't see how continuing the timeshare would be realistic.

 

[theo]

Some clarification may be in order here...

I went to the owners meeting at Fairways of the Mountain this year and the sunset provision came up.

I was a little surprised but the VRI rep did not seem to consider it to be very likely. While I liked the VRI rep, I do wonder if self-interest was involved (i.e. VRI would prefer the timeshare to continue so that they continue to receive the fees).

My impressions from the meeting were that the Fairways ownership tended to skew heavily to the older/retired demographic...and if that doesn't change over the next 10-12 years, with younger families taking over ownership, I don't see how continuing the timeshare would be realistic.

I genuinely like VRI as a management company, but the fact is that any VRI rep's opinion on "sunset clause" language at your (or at any other) timeshare facility means absolutely nothing in the final analysis.

The process of termination or renewal as a timeshare facility is identified and contained somewhere within recorded, underlying CC&R condo documents. Generally speaking, the decision is an owner majority-based voting process; the contracted management company has absolutely no say or involvement in the matter whatsoever. In fact, when "sunset" decision time arrives, an entirely different management company could very well be under contract at that time; they too would have absolutely no input or involvement.
Owners decide --- no one else has any say in the matter, including any hired management company.

P.S. As correctly noted already by Steve N. above, this "sunset clause" matter is not applicable to developer trust-based systems, only to independent (i.e., no remaining developer affiliation) timeshare properties.

 

[krj9999]

Pretty sure my small Delaware resort (Summer Place) has an early 2020s clause as well (maybe 2022, I can't recall).

 

[Larry M]

Egret's Pointe, Edisto Island, SC

well, the biggest issue that I understood (there were many more in real estate-ese that I did not, but I do seem to recall it immediately converted to residential use)...is that the moment these clauses take effect, the timeshare must cease to operate period. (believe most say within 30 days of the clause taking effect).

so with that...noone will be able to check in or stay there.

Id really like to start a list when folks can confirm the clause exists...so at least owners can begin to query their HOA/BOD!

The following is one really long sentence, but it seems to be the same dissolution clause:

The following described property from 4:00P.M. on the first day until 4:00P.M. on
the last day assigned to said Grantees during the below described Unit Week(s) Number(s)
as said Unit week is numbered and defined in the Supplemental Declaration of Covenants
and Restrictions applicable thereto recorded in the public records or Colleton County,
South Carolina, which estate is to be succeeded forthwith by a succession of other estates
in consecutive and chronological order, revolving among the other Unit Weeks described
in the aforesaid Supplemental Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions, in order
annually, it being the intent of this instrument that each Unit Week shall be considered a
separate estate held separately and independently by the respective owners thereof for and
during the period of time assigned to each in said Declaration each said estate being
succeeded by the next in unending succession governed by said Declaration until 4:00 P.M.
on the first Sunday in 2026, as of which date said estate shall terminate, unless extended as
provided by said Declaration:

 

[friedshrimp]

P.S. As correctly noted already by Steve N. above, this "sunset clause" matter is not applicable to developer trust-based systems, only to independent (i.e., no remaining developer affiliation) timeshare properties.

What are your thoughts on individual resorts that that have a sunset clause that are subsequently picked up (bought) by trust-based systems (such as DRI)?

 

[tschwa2]

I'm pretty sure that it shouldn't be a problem. At this time DRI is accepting deedbacks plus they control the votes for all intervals that were converted into the points system. With (strong) developer controlled resorts they will vote as a block and make it easy and seem imperative to vote to continue.

 

[friedshrimp]

I'm pretty sure that it shouldn't be a problem. At this time DRI is accepting deedbacks plus they control the votes for all intervals that were converted into the points system. With (strong) developer controlled resorts they will vote as a block and make it easy and seem imperative to vote to continue.

I wan't worried about the deedback program as i enjoy what I own. I was just curious when someone like DRI (trust-based) picks up a resort that has a sunset clause, do they fix that problem before putting it into the trust or does the action of putting it into the trust itself remove that aspect so trust-based owners don't have to worry about it?

 

[tschwa2]

They put the units in the trust and then have a large block of votes to amend the documents and continue beyond the sunset clause. They also have a lot of influence over the rest of the owners and can set up online voting with several reminders to those who have not submitted votes to amend the documents to continue beyond the date. Developers have a vested interest in not letting the TS dissolve so they will spend the money to get the votes by making it easy to vote and seem imperative to vote- yes continue.

 

[DelawareView]

Vacation Villas at FantasyWorld in Kissimmee?

The Sep/Oct 2013 edition of Timesharing Today (page 19) had a short description of an interesting scheme at Vacation Villas at FantasyWorld in Kissimmee to allow owners to pay at the time of purchase to surrender their deed in 2020:



If those intervals were subsequently resold (e.g. on Ebay), the new owner may be in for a surprise in 2020 when the deed "self-destructs."

I'm still scratching my head about this one.

Does anyone have any updates ref. --- deed " self-destructs" in 2020 ? What does it mean if you are still a owner and have been one for over 20 years?

[Deleted - this is the correct location for your offer: https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-can-i-give-away-my-timeshare-on-tug.132509/]

 

[silentg]

We receive a letter about the last HOA meeting at Holly Tree Resort in Yarmouth.
We voted by proxy and one of the things we voted on was weather or not to obsolve the timeshares and make the resort a hotel.
They votes were in favor of keeping it a timeshare so we should be ok.
I will have to check the deeds on my other timeshares.
One week I know is a RTU that expires in 2029.
Silentg

 

[Greg G]

Here is the termination clause in my Star Island public offering statement (bought in 1994). It's seems to be a different than the above mentioned sunset clauses in that there is no automatic termination by default. If I'm reading it right at least a majority of the total owners must be be present or by proxy at the meeting (the quorum) and then 51% of that quorum must vote to continue or discontinue the timeshare. I assume if you don't have a quorum, the timeshare continues on as is?. If you do have a quorum and assuming everyone in the quorum actually votes, then at least 51% must vote to discontinue the timeshare to terminate the timeshare.

 

[Greg G]

 

[Greg G]

I suppose you could have a quorum but 50% of the people at the quorum decide not to vote in which case the timeshare continues on? (or any combination where you don't have at least 51% of the quorum voting to discontinue).

 

[Greg G]

I meant above that at least 51% of those a the quorum would have to vote to discontinue the timeshare otherwise it would continue on as is?

 

[dioxide45]

I meant above that at least 51% of those a the quorum would have to vote to discontinue the timeshare otherwise it would continue on as is?

According to my Marriott Grande Vista deed, it will terminate unless it is extended. So if no quorum is met, it would terminate. You don't lose your ownership, it just converts to Tenant in Common. Meaning, you can't really use it like a timeshare any more. The property would really just have to be sold and owners get a share of the proceeds.

 

[OldGuy]

Sure are a lot of words here.

Anyone been through this at their resort?

 

[headoflife]

FYI
Found my deed from 2003 and the date is "4 pm on the first Friday in 2020"

Does anyone have any additional info on how this is being handled at Foxrun, and does anyone have a copy of a deed, who might be able to share the relevant language? I only have a quit claim deed. As we are now just a few months away from that date, I suspect someone must be doing something, or at least I hope they are.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Foxrun is going through this currently. Ends in 2020, but the consensus seems to be with keeping it as a timeshare. I am game. I use the weeks for PIC in Wyndham. It puts me into the platinum status, so I am somewhat relieved.

 

[headoflife]

Foxrun is going through this currently. Ends in 2020, but the consensus seems to be with keeping it as a timeshare. I am game. I use the weeks for PIC in Wyndham. It puts me into the platinum status, so I am somewhat relieved.

Cindy,

I am OK with whatever happens, although I admit I wouldn't mind if they sold it off, and sent the proceeds to the owners. I am not sure what the process is, though, since I don't have the original deed, and have not heard anything from the board. What needs to happen at this time to either extend it or terminate it?