Looking at buying a Starwood TS, would love advice!

[Deesquared]

Hi Tuggers!
I have been visiting the board since 2013 when we got a great deal at WKORV, and took their timeshare tour. We got another deal this year, and are now looking more seriously at purchasing something.

Just for background info, we have been to WKORV twice, and we love it. Our kids love the pool, and we like relaxing poolside and snorkeling at the beach. I love how close it is to Lahaina, with lots of restaurants and shopping nearby.
The only other TS we have experience with is WorldMark, which my parents and my in-laws both own. I'm not a big fan, as I much prefer the 'resort' feel of the Westin property.
I am super cheap, and would be happy to get a freebie from the Bargain Basement as a trader, but my husband is more willing to invest the cash to get a mandatory resort with the StarOptions and ability to book at 12 months.

I am curious what you would recommend? I have seen many 2 BR Westin Desert Oasis resales that I was interested in.
I also saw a 1BR Island view at WKORV for $8000 that seemed like a great deal if we wanted the StarOptions.

Here's my answers to the survey, to give you more info:

1) Where do you want your home resort to be? Not sure...either Maui if we spend the $$$ on a mandatory, or Desert Oasis for a trader

2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?If Maui, we'd visit our home resort 90%. If Arizona, it would be a trader 80% of the time.

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?Maui, Atlantis Harbourside, and Orlando (Walt Disney World). Maybe Princeville

4) How many people do you usually travel with?2 Adults 2 teens

5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule? School schedule, so travel during March Break and Summer Holidays most likely

6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?Yes
7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?Yes

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars? What is the Westin? 4 or 5? I love Westin and Fairmont properties for the luxury feel, but I'm more concerned about how much space we have for everyone, and the pool amenities.

9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?I'm not sure, but hubby didn't really balk too much when I showed him the $8000 WKORV resale. We are not looking to spend $25,000 though...

10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?For Maui - maybe $2000? Maybe an EOY would be better for us. For Arizona I would spend around $1200 a year.

11) Are you a detail oriented planner?Very Much!

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do? Yep, that is why I'm interested in a cheap or free trader that I can give away when we don't want it anymore. However, I would hope that if we bought a Maui resale it would retain most of it's value.

Thank you all for any advice!
Dianna
________________

 

[Deesquared]

Oops...the WKORV resale that is $8000 is a 2BR EOY, not a 1BR. Still Island view though!

 

[DeniseM]

The limiting factors are:

School holidays:

• Christmas and New Years are not available at the resorts you named as Staroption exchanges - they were either sold as event weeks, or the number of weeks available is extremely limited, and impossible to get with Staroptions.

• Other school holidays such as President's week, and Easter week are also difficult to get with Staroption reservations. Owners making home resort reservations often book them solid at the 12 mo. mark - leaving nothing for Staroption reservations.

• Summer is not as difficult, as long as you are flexible about when you go, but if you can only go 4th of July week, you may not find any availability for a Staroption reservation.

View:

• When you make a Staroption reservation, you get a "floating view," which means that your unit will be assigned by the front desk. Most people want a good view in Hawaii, so if you would use a Hawaii Home resort 90% of the time, then you should definitely buy Ocean View or Ocean Front at the resort, to guarantee your view AND the ability to make your reservations at 12 mos. before check-in.

Price:

For $8,000 you are not going to get Ocean View or Oceanfront at WKORV-N/S. You and your spouse need to sit down and figure out how important it is to you to lock in the view, and to be able to make a reservation at 12 mos. If it's important, you will have to pay more than $8,000.

One option is to buy an every-other-year Ocean View deed. That will lock in your view and 12 mo. reservation priority, and reduce your cost.

 

[DeniseM]

Oops...the WKORV resale that is $8000 is a 2BR EOY, not a 1BR. Still Island view though!

I would not even consider buying an Island View. An Island View at WKORV is most likely a parking lot view. Yes - it gives you the priority to make your reservation at 12 mos. out, but do you really want to look at a parking lot year after year?

 

[Deesquared]

Ahh...parking lot view!
Yes, on our past two visits we were in dreaded building 4 with a lanai over the parking lot.
We didn't care too much, as we were getting such a good deal, but yes...if I bought something I don't think I'd want the Island View.

Are the Maintenance Fees for for Ocean View units than Island View, or is it just based on unit size?

Also, because we're in Canada our holidays are a bit different. We wouldn't be travelling on President's Day or 4th of July Holidays, so that might impact our decision too. We rarely travel at Christmas, so I'm not planning to use a Timeshare for Christmas vacations.

Thanks Denise!

 

[Henry M.]

Island views at WKORV-N are not bad, though. I would stay in most rooms at that resort. Of course I prefer a high floor in building 8, but the IV rooms are acceptable.

Maintenance fees are determined by unit size, not view.

 

[DeniseM]

Also, because we're in Canada our holidays are a bit different. We wouldn't be travelling on President's Day or 4th of July Holidays, so that might impact our decision too. We rarely travel at Christmas, so I'm not planning to use a Timeshare for Christmas vacations.

So it sounds like you would be traveling during summer vacation. If you are flexible, and can go any week of the summer, and you don't care about the view, then making a Staroption reservation is very doable.

If you are locked into one week of the summer, and can't be flexible, then it would be better for you to own at the resort, so you can reserve at 12 mos. out.

You need to decide how important the view is to you - the maintenance fee is the same for a bad view or a good view.

 

[mjm1]

Deesquared, I would first like to congratulate you on probably the most organized initial post/request for insight. Well done!

We bought a mandatory resort at Westin Kierland Villas, so we would have the ability to use StarOptions. The cost and MFs are less than Hawaii and you can make reservations in Hawaii/other non-home resorts at 8 months. As noted by others, it would be floating as far as room assignments, but it can work well.

You might want to consider that resort.

Mike

 

[Deesquared]

Deesquared, I would first like to congratulate you on probably the most organized initial post/request for insight. Well done!

Awww..thanks! I've been doing the research for 2 years now, but I still have so many questions!

I will definitely look into Kierland, and I had someone else recommend looking into a mandatory at Vistana, but I'm worried about the overloaded Florida market.
Arizona is closer to us, here in BC, so we would be more likely to use it occasionally.

I assume that by buying a resale week at a voluntary resort, there is no way to split the studio and 1-bedroom to trade for two weeks at another resort? You would just deposit the entire thing into II, and get one week back?

Thanks again everyone!
Dianna

 

[DeniseM]

I assume that by buying a resale week at a voluntary resort, there is no way to split the studio and 1-bedroom to trade for two weeks at another resort? You would just deposit the entire thing into II, and get one week back?

You can split a 2-Bdm. lock-off in II.

But getting a II trade at a prime resort during school holidays is much more difficult. In general, Starwood avoids depositing school holidays in II.

 

[LisaRex]

I think you should also consider other options. No way would I buy an IV at WKORV as its resale value is poor. If you can't afford an upgraded view, then I'd personally either exchange or rent.

Right now, there are over 500 rentals listed on Redweek.com for WKORV and WKORV-N. Membership costs $15/year. With that many rentals, it's a buyer's market. If you are willing to be patient and contact a lot of people, you should be able to rent for the cost of MFs + a few hundred bucks. No contract required.

If that doesn't appeal to you, if view isn't essential, and if you can be somewhat flexible with your dates, then do what others have suggested and consider buying a mandatory resort such as WKV, and use SOs to exchange in. Exchangers often get better views than deeded IV owners.

Also, be aware that Maui is going ahead with its plans to build a third phase. This will most assuredly mean that exchanging will be easier, especially in the years that the resort is in active sales, as the new phase will significantly increase inventory.

Theoretically, this will also decrease the resale/rental value of WKORV and WKORV-N because more sellers are competing for the same number of buyers/renters. And Starwood usually subsidizes the MFs when it's in active sales to lure new buyers in, so the difference in MFs may mean more people will buy from Starwood because they are fooled by the lower MFs.

So it may behoove you to rent now, and then wait to see what happens in a few years after the NN phase is built. You'd kick yourself if in 3 years, you can pick up a 2 bdrm for 25 or 50% less than what you paid today.

 

[capjak]

Based on the information it appears like the best options would be:

1. Westin Kirland (expect to pay $16000+ upfront but it will have resale value),

2. WKORV-N (Island view $14000 upfront or Oceanfront $20,000 upfront for an annual) or South Oceanview ($18,000 up front for an annual) both of these currently have resale value

Personally I prefer to control my reservations and therefore renting & II exchanges is not my preferred method as I sometimes change dates based on airfare availability.

If I knew I was going to Maui every year or even every other year, I would buy there (actually I did buy there twice) to guarantee my room. Making star option reservations for Feb/March timeframe can be difficult at the 8 month mark especially for a 2 bedroom if that is what you need.

 

[LisaRex]

Personally I prefer to control my reservations and therefore renting & II exchanges is not my preferred method as I sometimes change dates based on airfare availability.

I used to own at WKORV-N and one of the reasons I sold was because I didn't like the pressure to book at 12 months out to guarantee the best view. 12 months is before award flights are released, which means I couldn't look for airfare bargains. I cannot tell you how stressful it was to give up a reservation made at 9am at 12 months out because I couldn't find cheap/award airfare to match.

If you're traveling with a family of 4, airfare can be the most expensive component of a Hawaii vacation, especially if you don't live on the West Coast. From Ohio, airfares to Maui hover around $1100 (though lately I've finally seen fares in the $800s). So for a family of 4, we're talking $3200-4400 just in travel costs, which makes airfare as expensive, or more so, than lodging.

So, for me, renting is actually less stressful than owning there.

 

[sjsharkie]

I am going to exclude the rental options, since the OP stated they wish to purchase.

If view is important to you, then you should buy at WKORV / WKORVN. Expensive in both up front and MF cost, but you know what you are getting yourself into. Keep in mind that MFs at this property have increased disproportionately (IMO) to other locations and that Maui county seems increasingly intent on taxing those who do not have voting power to stop them (namely, timeshare owners).

If upfront cost and maintenance fees are more of a concern, I would look to SVN mandatory properties. You can generally get a summer week if you are flexible and sit on your computer ready to pounce 8 months out. WKV has a higher up front cost, with lower maintenance fees; SVV has a much lower up front cost with higher maintenance fees.

Also note that maintenance fee increases and residual values of TS fluctuate every year -- if they changed rules of the program, this could dramatically impact the investment you have.

Good luck!

-ryan

 

[SMHarman]

I think you should also consider other options. No way would I buy an IV at WKORV as its resale value is poor. If you can't afford an upgraded view, then I'd personally either exchange or rent.

Right now, there are over 500 rentals listed on Redweek.com for WKORV and WKORV-N. Membership costs $15/year. With that many rentals, it's a buyer's market. If you are willing to be patient and contact a lot of people, you should be able to rent for the cost of MFs + a few hundred bucks. No contract required.

If that doesn't appeal to you, if view isn't essential, and if you can be somewhat flexible with your dates, then do what others have suggested and consider buying a mandatory resort such as WKV, and use SOs to exchange in. Exchangers often get better views than deeded IV owners.

Also, be aware that Maui is going ahead with its plans to build a third phase. This will most assuredly mean that exchanging will be easier, especially in the years that the resort is in active sales, as the new phase will significantly increase inventory.

Theoretically, this will also decrease the resale/rental value of WKORV and WKORV-N because more sellers are competing for the same number of buyers/renters. And Starwood usually subsidizes the MFs when it's in active sales to lure new buyers in, so the difference in MFs may mean more people will buy from Starwood because they are fooled by the lower MFs.

So it may behoove you to rent now, and then wait to see what happens in a few years after the NN phase is built. You'd kick yourself if in 3 years, you can pick up a 2 bdrm for 25 or 50% less than what you paid today.

This is very important.

Starwood may effectively reduce the floor price on the old inventory by reducing ROFR pricing when they have shiney New NN inventory to sell.

Buying in WKORV right now should probably add more patience.

 

[VacationForever]

I am going to exclude the rental options, since the OP stated they wish to purchase.

If view is important to you, then you should buy at WKORV / WKORVN. Expensive in both up front and MF cost, but you know what you are getting yourself into. Keep in mind that MFs at this property have increased disproportionately (IMO) to other locations and that Maui county seems increasingly intent on taxing those who do not have voting power to stop them (namely, timeshare owners).

If upfront cost and maintenance fees are more of a concern, I would look to SVN mandatory properties. You can generally get a summer week if you are flexible and sit on your computer ready to pounce 12 months out. WKV has a higher up front cost, with lower maintenance fees; SVV has a much lower up front cost with higher maintenance fees.

Also note that maintenance fee increases and residual values of TS fluctuate every year -- if they changed rules of the program, this could dramatically impact the investment you have.

Good luck!

-ryan

I believe you meant 8 months, not 12 months out.

 

[YYJMSP]

Canadian twists

Things to remember:

- flying can cost a lot more from Canada, unless (I'm going to assume you're in the lower mainland) you're able to cross the border to Bellingham, or make your way to Seattle. And factor in AC Rouge is taking over most of the leisure destinations, and our personal experience with them has been horrible compared to AC mainline. I'm sure WJ is going to do the same over time...

- your MFs are in USD, so on top of the constant ~5% annual rise in costs, factor in currency fluctuations. Our MFs went up 3.7% last year, but actually cost us 10.1% more after the drop in CAD vs USD was added.

I'm sure there's other stuff, but those are the two biggies.

 

[YYJMSP]

Also, because we're in Canada our holidays are a bit different. We wouldn't be travelling on President's Day or 4th of July Holidays, so that might impact our decision too.

We've never had too much issue in booking with SO's at exactly 8mos out.

We just got back from Maui, and the place was packed with lots of Canadians on Spring Break, so just because our holidays don't align with the American's doesn't mean that everyone else from Canada didn't decide to come during those same few weeks

From the west coast, there are only a handful of places that are relatively easy to get to.

 

[Deesquared]

We just got back from Maui, and the place was packed with lots of Canadians on Spring Break,

We were some of those Canadians! We were the ones swimming in the pool when it was raining.
Maybe we crossed paths! I wish I could have met up with you and picked your brain. You have so many timeshares!

As for the new Westin Nanea being built, is the general feeling that it would be wise to wait until it opens before buying anything at WKORV? Is the thought that prices might go down with the increased availability of units?

Thanks for everyone for their input. I didn't know much about Kierland, but it does look appealing.
I've also looked on Redweek, and, goodness gracious...there are so many rentals out there! I'm happy to rent, but hubby seems to want to purchase something at some point.

Thanks so much!!

 

[YYJMSP]

We were some of those Canadians! We were the ones swimming in the pool when it was raining.

I'm sure someone will shoot me for being a fool, but I just spent 12 days in Hawaii and never set foot in the water

Unfortunately, I had to work through pretty much my entire holiday, so for me, it was just a change of office location. Between work and holidays, I think I spend more than a third of my time in hotels...

 

[sjsharkie]

I believe you meant 8 months, not 12 months out.

Yes -- I edited my post.

 

[Ken555]

I'm sure someone will shoot me for being a fool, but I just spent 12 days in Hawaii and never set foot in the water



Unfortunately, I had to work through pretty much my entire holiday, so for me, it was just a change of office location. Between work and holidays, I think I spend more than a third of my time in hotels...

You're not alone. When I was there earlier this month I only got in the water a few times over nine days...and had go work long weeks while there.

But, I did meet lots of Canadians!


Sent from my iPad

 

[jordathyspg]

We've never had too much issue in booking with SO's at exactly 8mos out.

Fellow lowermainlander here. I've been lurking on the site for a while, and my wife and I have settled on the idea of a 2 Bedroom Platinum WKV resale. We want the 148k options and Scottsdale is a place we would be happy to visit at least every other year. We will probably be looking to purchase next year, after baby number two comes.

I see you own in Maui, but do you (or any other locals) have any experience in booking via staroptions at 8 months out during our March spring break in either Maui, Kauai, or Lagunamar? Or should we expect to be looking at shoulder season for these resorts?

 

[DeniseM]

I see you own in Maui, but do you (or any other locals) have any experience in booking via staroptions at 8 months out during our March spring break in either Maui, Kauai, or Lagunamar? Or should we expect to be looking at shoulder season for these resorts?

When is your spring break? Feb. through Easter is high season in Hawaii.

At the Maui resorts, the majority of the weeks book solid at 12 mos., and the rest book solid at 8 mos. - Although there may be a few studios that are still available.

To get a reservation during this time frame, you need to be ready to make your reservation online, right at the 8 mos. + 1 day mark (at midnight Eastern) the night before the phone lines open, and you need to be flexible, because most weeks are booked by owners at 12 mos.

Maui is a much harder reservation to get than Kauai or Lagunamar.

 

[jordathyspg]

Thanks Denise. Spring break here varies based on the city and private vs. public school, but seems to largely be sometime between the first and third week of March. Sounds like that is a no go for Maui, but a possibility for Kauai or Lagunamar at 8 months out?

For Maui, it sounds like if we were to book right at 8 months out and were flexible on the dates, we would have a decent shot of getting into Maui during shoulder season