Hilton Head recommendations?

[mbeach89]

Excited my trade went through for Marriott Grande Ocean week 25, and now the planning begins.

Any TUGGers have recommendations for my family to check out on HHI this summer?

My wife and I are in our 40's, 3 kids ages 13, 10, and 7. My wife likes to just chill out, drink and read. I like to sight see.

Also, any recommendations for groceries?

Thanks, Mark

 

[MOXJO7282]

Excited my trade went through for Marriott Grande Ocean week 25, and now the planning begins.

Any TUGGers have recommendations for my family to check out on HHI this summer?

My wife and I are in our 40's, 3 kids ages 13, 10, and 7. My wife likes to just chill out, drink and read. I like to sight see.

Also, any recommendations for groceries?

Thanks, Mark

Lucky you, the Grande Ocean is one of the best properties in the Marriott system so you will absolutely love it. You're have to make sure to rent bikes and ride through the Sea Pines. The bike paths are separate from the roadway and are flat and easy to navigate.

As for supermarkets, there's a very good Publix right down the road.

 

[FlyerBobcat]

As for supermarkets, there's a very good Publix right down the road.

Also give The Fresh Market a look for specialty items, produce, meats, and deserts.
http://www.thefreshmarket.com/about/

 

[ilene13]

I spend my time there on the beach reading, biking and going out to dinner. Here is a list of our favorite restaurants:
1. Santa Fe Cafe
2. Tapas
3. Daniels
4. Redfish
5. Truffles
6. Market Street Cafe

Enjoy the trip. I have spent summers (partial) on HH since I was about 5 and I am 63.

 

[wuv pooh]

The new Kroger at Shelter Cove is awesome for groceries, plus you get discount gas for your spending.

 

[LUVourMarriotts]

We love HHI. You will have a blast, no matter what you do. For restaurants, I can inform on one place that we went to last time that I won't waste time at again. Lots of people raved about a place called Sea Shack. Its a little hole in the wall seafood place, which is usually some of the best places. We went with the intention of eating in the car, since getting a table is nearly impossible. We waited for over an hour for the food, which we expected, and it was nothing that I would get excited about. I'm originally from New England, and I know good seafood. This place was not even close to what I expected it to be. It was average seafood at best. It was not cheap either.

There was a very nice restaurant that we went to that I cannot remember the name of, but I will try to search for it. It was on the water, very tough to get a reservation, and pretty large place. Northern side of island.

 

[cp73]

My wife likes to just chill out, drink and read. I like to sight see. Also, any recommendations for groceries?

Your wifes will be easy. Just rent a umbrella and chairs on the beach for the week and she will be done. They are available in front of the resort. Their weekly rate is best. I believe it was $30 a day or $150 for 7 days or something like that.

For you I suggest a day trip over to Savannah. But if you like to read get Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil and read it before your trip. Then while in Savannah go visit John Williams house. If you don't like to read watch the movie, probably on Netflix. Other suggestions would be go on a dolphin cruise, ride bikes on the beach, or maybe even take in a plantation tour.

Also drive over to Pinckney Island National Wildlife Refuge and walk around it. Its great for bird watching and seeing all sorts of good stuff. You could hike/walk for hours over there. Its about 15 minutes from the resort.

There is a market right near the resort, approx 1/2 mile. They will have all your grocery needs.

Hilton Head is great you and your family will love it.

 

[Davey54321]

We liked Hudsons Seafood

...on Hudson Road at the docks, waterfront...we were there a little more than a month ago and it was great, fresh seafood and friendly, fast service...I imagine this restaurant is that much better in the summer, in season....

We also ate dinner at the Crazy Crab by the Lighthouse in Sea Pines - good and always reliable....

Also can recommend Palmetto Bay Sunrise Cafe for breakfast, though we ate most of ours in the villa (Surfwatch not Grand Ocean) when we were there...

Have fun and enjoy! We are already planning a return trip to HHI, during April 2015 if we are lucky!
Vicki

 

[sparty]

Best Seafood Dives in US

http://seashackhhi.com

If you've ever been in Oregon Coastal area, it's very similar to Mo's.

Not fancy, just very good.

 

[amycurl]

The original chef at the Sea Shack has left, and opened Roastfish and Cornbread, which is one of my favorites. Also love Hudson's and The Old Fort Pub. Red Fish is good, too. Don't know what the lines/waits are in the summer for any of these places--off-season, when we go, we usually don't have to worry.

Also love the entertainment and atmosphere (as well as decent food) for The Jazz Corner.

The best thing about Grand Ocean is that they have pretty good activities. Off-resort, I would do a kayaking trip through the marshes, and a Zodiac dolphin cruise (way more fun in the small rather than big boats!)

Hilton Head is about enjoying nature, outside activities, and enjoying each other and good food. It's not so much about Disney-esque activities and nightlife.

Oh, and shop at the Tanger outlets in Bluffton! Looking forward to the Tanger Performing Arts Center opening in my downtown soon....

 

[LUVourMarriotts]

There was a very nice restaurant that we went to that I cannot remember the name of, but I will try to search for it. It was on the water, very tough to get a reservation, and pretty large place. Northern side of island.

Yes, Hudson's, that's the place we enjoyed.

I also thought it was funny that sparty called Sea Shack "Best Seafood Dive in US". As you can see from sparty and my comments about that place, everyone has an opinion, all valid.

 

[FlyerBobcat]

Now that restaurants are in this mix, I gotta' give a link to Marty's updated thread on places to eat.

 

[Weimaraner]

My daughter and I really enjoyed a few hours at Lawton Stables followed by a visit to Salty Dog Cafe. She's 6 so she did a pony ride and visited and fed the farm animals, including a tame deer that she adored. They have horse rides for older kids and adults. Check it out.

 

[Big Matt]

You have to take everyone to the Salty Dog to get a tee shirt.

Go to Harbortown and look around.

If you are geeky into cool golf courses go to the pro shop at Harbortown Golf Links and get a souvenier.

Shelter Cove for fireworks.

Look at the variety of nature excursions. Some are on foot, some in a kayak or boat, others on horse back.

I'd spend half a day in Beaufort if you can spare it.

I second the Fresh Market and like the refurbished Harris Teeter at the Sea Pines gate. There's a liquor store next door for your wife.

 

[SJC]

Coastal Discovery Museum...Sea Turtles

Perhaps your children would enjoy this event. See information below. If so make reservation now as these programs fill quickly.


Hilton Head Island, South Carolina

LOGGERHEAD SEA TURTLES

Evening Turtle talks and walks will be offered on Tuesday and Thursday evenings June through August. Please call 843-689-6767 ext 223 to make your reservation. Cost is $20 adult, $15 child (no children under 4 years of age)

Sea Turtles on Hilton Head Island



Common Name: Loggerhead Sea Turtle
Scientific Name: Caretta caretta
Adult Size: 30-42 inches in Carapace (back of the shell) length
300-400 Pounds
Adult Diet: Crabs, Molluscs, Shellfish
Status: Federally Threatened, Globally Endangered

Loggerhead Sea Turtles (caretta caretta) are reptiles related to land turtles, lizards and snakes. Adapted to live in the ocean, loggerheads have powerful flippers and an aerodynamic body that allows them to move gracefully through the ocean.

Loggerhead Sea Turtles nest on the beaches of Hilton Head Island between May and August. An adult females will nest every two to four years, coming ashore between 4 and 6 times per season to lay eggs. Loggerheads typically nest at night, crawling to a dry part of the beach where females will dig a nest cavity with their rear flippers and deposit an average of 120 eggs. Once the eggs have been laid, the female throws sand to disguise the nest from predators and slowly returns to the ocean.

After about 60 days of incubation, the small turtles within the eggs begin to hatch. During the cool night, the 2 inch long hatchlings emerge from the nest, orient themselves towards the brightest horizon, and crawl towards the ocean. Once in the water, hatchlings swim many miles offshore where they will spend the next 25-30 years of their life growing to adulthood.

The Hilton Head Island Sea Turtle Protection Project monitors sea turtle nesting and hatching activity on Hilton Head Island from May to October. This conservation project began in 1985 and is managed by the Coastal Discovery Museum.

To view video - click picture (wait while it loads)




Ways You Can Help Protect Sea Turtles:

Turn Beachfront Lights Off May 1 - October 31
Remove Beach Litter
Fill in Sand Holes and Smooth Sand Castles
Report injured Turtles
Leave Nest Sites Undisturbed
Do Not Shine Flashlights or Take Flash Photographs of Nesting Turtles
Adopt a Sea Turtle Nest at the Coastal Discovery Museum: (download Adopt a Nest Form PDF)
View Nesting Map
Please note: Loggerhead Sea Turtle Nests have also been observed on Pine Island in Hilton Head Plantation, however because sea tutle nesting activity is not monitored on a daily basis within Hilton Head Plantation, these nests are not included in this map.

For additional information about sea turtles nesting on Hilton Head Island please visit:

http://www.seaturtle.org/nestdb/index.shtml?view_beach=73








Planning Your VisitEvent CalendarFacility RentalSchool ProgramsSea TurtlesContact UsCultural LinkHome

 

[jme]

Update of my old Update

Hilton Head Restaurants

Fine dining establishments (VARIED MENUS)
then more casual middle-of-the-road family restaurants (under MORE MENTIONABLES), which people want too.

My own personal list, & represents "UPDATE of my previous update". Reflects my own opinion. We like the independently-owned places, no chains, but there are ample good chains present. Carrabba's for instance.

Reservations at most of these places are highly recommended, even days ahead. Some places don't take reservations, but those that don't, still honor the Marriott Concierge calls, and you can get "call-ahead seating" with a minimal wait if you let the Concierge call for you around midday. They hold only a few spots for that daily call-ahead privilege, so beware. For some I'd recommend calling the day before, like Skull Creek Boathouse which stays super busy. The concierge can advise what is best.

For Grande Ocean, the front desk is (843) 686-7343,
for Barony it's (843) 342-1608,
and for SurfWatch it's (843) 363-3400.
ASK FOR the CONCIERGE.

Also, when you first check in, PICK UP a Menu Guide from the magazine rack in the lobby (not the small pamphlet, but the larger menu guide). You can view dozens of menus easily in that book for comparison, and it will help a lot. It may even tell you that you don't care for a few of my own favorites, as everybody has different preferences.

HH has over 200 restaurants, so there are a lot from which to choose.
Although all of HH's restaurants are "casual", the ones with ( * ) after the name below in my lists are a bit more quiet, upscale, and "fine dining" category.


TRADITIONAL SEAFOOD:

Skull Creek Boathouse....hands down my personal favorite for seafood. Inside or outside dining. Bar inside and out. Concierge a MUST for "call-ahead seating", otherwise a 90-120 minute wait, any night.
http://www.skullcreekboathouse.com/archives/menus/dinner-menu

Black Marlin Bayside Grill...good solid seafood restaurant, indoor booths or outdoor in courtyard atmosphere (tables with umbrellas).
http://blackmarlinhhi.com/menus/dinner-menu/

Sea Shack....
a hole in the wall, but good basic seafood.. you stand outside until table opens. lately it's been inconsistent. popular but not my favorite. often recommended by others.
http://seashackhhi.com/

Old Oyster Factory...very popular, good seafood but not great seafood. Awesome atmosphere, beautiful building on marsh/waterway, gorgeous views. We still like it, and go each trip. Concierge "call-ahead seating" a MUST.
https://www.oldoysterfactory.com/ordereze/1000/Page.aspx

Crazy Crab (2 locations)... we like the Harbour Town location but many like the other. Just too far to drive for us to the second location near on-island bridge. It's crazy allright....loud, busy, lots of kids and families----must be in the mood for all that stimulation, but it has good basic seafood.
http://www.thecrazycrab.com/

Roastfish and Cornbread.... "down home" Southern cooking by owner, Chef David. A relatively new hot spot going on 2 years now. Some have said it's just OK, but it continues to be a very popular favorite. Nothing fancy, beyond casual, LOTS of seafood options.
http://www.roastfishandcornbread.com/

Kenny B's......beyond casual, great seafood and Cajun cuisine! Good prices, really fun. always busy but worth the wait. also, breakfast.
http://www.eatatkennybs.com/
.......................................................................................................................

Not Recommendations, but 2 Mentionables below:

1. Aunt Chilada's...not my favorite, but ....listed because it's always hailed as a fun place for kids and young families. always crowded and located in a convenient spot .... the "default last-minute restaurant of choice", so to speak. I suppose it's just OK. Not my recommendation unless you want over-the-top casual atmosphere, decent prices, and average food. Just sayin'.

2. Hudson's Seafood...listed because it's often mentioned and even recommended, but again, not my favorite....have tried a few times over the years, always disappointed, very inconsistent. I consider it at best an average experience, but every now and then I'm hearing a few more good recommendations. If it's gotten better, I apologize. For me, there are too many great other places to visit, so you won't see me there.
.................................................................................................................



VARIED MENUS (not just seafood):

All quite SPECIAL; most in Fine Dining Category, all favorites.
( * = fine dining )

Frankie Bones ...very large menu, really fun... "Sinatra cool"....reservations a MUST, best at least 2 days in advance maybe more. tall-back maroon leather booths, low lights, Club atmosphere, love it!!! .... casual..... busy bar scene, has high-tops available next to bar area.
http://www.frankieboneshhi.com/
Not for kids really, but they do have a few items that work...have "S'mores" dessert with a small Hibachi for cooking marshmallows! also great appetizers.

RedFish....very popular...unique menu items...Not really for kids. https://www.redfishofhiltonhead.com/ordereze/default.aspx

Alexanders*....fine dining, quiet, intimate, white tablecloth, good wines.
http://www.alexandersrestaurant.com/ Not for kids.

Wiseguys*..fine dining, great steaks & seafood...
http://www.wiseguyshhi.com/ Not for kids.

Charlie's L'Etoile Verte*.....fine dining, new fresh menu daily (many fish selections)...
perhaps the best all-round restaurant on island, romantic, quiet but good ambiance.
http://charliesgreenstar.com/ Not for kids.

Crane's Tavern*...fine dining, quiet, steak & seafood, white tablecloth.
http://www.cranestavern.com/ Not for kids.

Old Fort Pub*....very fine dining...maybe best VIEW on island, small, intimate, romantic, for special occasions or just a really great meal, white tablecloth,candles...ask for window table. nice wine list. Not for kids.
http://www.oldfortpub.com/

Sunset Grille*....fine dining, forget where it's located, it's wonderful. Fantastic sunset view, romantic, great Chef, locals' favorite, great wine list. Not for kids.
http://www.sunsetgrillehhi.com/

The Studio*.....very fine dining, interesting mix of fine food & visual art.
expensive but good. Not for kids.
http://www.studiodining.com/

Santa Fe Cafe*... (fwiw, my personal favorite restaurant on the island).
Our first and last meal whenever we visit HH.
"Fine dining" but slightly more casual.
I love the window tables in the back room on RIGHT SIDE, near Chef's grill.....Southwestern flair to seafood and steaks...
Signature dishes are the Cowboy Cut Rib Chop and the Grouper. (wow)
http://www.santafehhi.com/ Not for kids.

Sage Room*....very fine dining, very expensive but excellent, highly rated, a locals' favorite.
http://www.thesageroom.com/ Not for kids.

Tapas..... a different kind of dining experience, but a good one... many items from which to choose, family-owned restaurant with loyal following.
http://www.tapashiltonhead.com/

Jazz Corner.....live Jazz entertainment, good food, a fun evening. Cover charge of $10 required...
http://www.thejazzcorner.com/
.............................................................


MORE MENTIONABLES (worthy of trying):
Good solid restaurants for a typical dinner out with the family. Not fine dining, just good... on rare occasion inconsistent but still worth considering.

Steamer's.....good basic seafood, located in Coligny Plaza.
http://www.steamerseafood.com/

Jump & Phil's....very casual, very good food with wide selection of menu items, fun laid-back atmosphere, advertises the "best burger on the island" (and it is good).
http://www.jumpandphilshhi.com/

Hilton Head Brewing Company.....popular & fun place, lots of good starter selections, good sandwiches, good beer selections.
http://www.hhbrewingco.com/

Smokehouse....fun, very kid-friendly, wide variety of food selections--- great BBQ, sandwiches, seafood, steaks..... yum.
http://smokehousehhi.com/

Bonefish Grill.... probably one of the best chain restaurants on the planet, exceptionally consistent, always good food & service. Large booths as always....Nice bar scene.
https://www.bonefishgrill.com/Locator/details/hilton-head-south-carolina

CharBar Co......haven't tried, but reputed to offer highly rated gourmet burgers, sandwiches, salads, etc...very casual. Sounds very good....
http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/164/1705955/restaurant/CharBar-Co-Hilton-Head-Island
http://www.hiltonheadisland.org/dining/restaurants/charbar-company/

Wild Wing Cafe.....THE original... crazy fun, busy, 1 hour waits in summer, but fantastic wings and other things. (try "Wild West" wings----not hot, not too sweet, just right!!!) active bar scene, many TVs, young locals' hangout, favorite of college kids and teens. Great T-shirts. Really fun.
http://www.wildwingcafe.com/locations/hilton-head-island-sc
...................................................................................



LUNCH:

A Low Country Backyard....
my newest favorite lunch spot, maybe best lunch menu on the island !!! (also open for dinner).. "down home Southern Cooking"... really an awesome cafe, great service....a top-rated hot spot on the island and it's well-deserved.
http://www.hhbackyard.com/

Truffles.... 2 locations, identical menus, but we like the decor & atmosphere much better at the Pope Avenue location---more contemporary (actually off Pope, on Executive Park Rd) ....very cozy.... also good for dinner.
http://www.trufflescafe.com/

Main Street Cafe & Pub...really fun little cafe, good menu.
http://www.hiltonheadcafe.com/
menu....http://www.hiltonheadcafe.com/menu/

Harbour Town Bakery & Cafe---for a good sandwich, salad, or other specialty item in Harbour Town----located on right upon entering Lighthouse parking area, just short of Marriott Harbour Club Resort, it's a small cottage, inside or 2 tables on front porch.
https://www.seapines.com/dining/the-harbour-town-bakery.aspx
................................................................



ITALIAN:
Vine Bistro & Wine Bar....need reservations way in advance (maybe before your trip).......new hot spot, very fine dining, expensive....
(863) 686-3900.....
No official website. NOT for kids!
http://www.hiltonheadisland.org/dining/restaurants/not-just-pasta-and-wine-bar/
http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/164/1685082/restaurant/Vine-Hilton-Head- Island

Michael Anthony's Italian...fine dining Italian...sort of expensive, but excellent, see guide. Not for kids.
http://www.michael-anthonys.com/

Ombra Cucina Rustica Italian... fine dining Italian...sort of expensive, but excellent, see guide. Not for kids.
http://www.ombrahhi.com/

Giuseppe's.... casual, kid-friendly, great menu, great pizza....try only the Shelter Cove location next to TJ Maxx (other location not owned by same people).
http://www.giuseppispizza.com/menus/hilton-head-menu/
...........................................................................................


PIZZA: everybody needs a pizza night

Mellow Mushroom.....my favorite........brand new beautiful restaurant building in a totally renovated shopping plaza......a great Harris Teeter Grocery Store next door.
http://mellowmushroom.com/store/hilton-head

Giuseppe's at Shelter Cove (see above under "Italian")
................................................................................................


BREAKFAST:

Palmetto Bay Sunrise Cafe...best by far, no comparison, great menu with a couple of extra daily specials, best service on island, a locals' favorite...tables, only 2 booths, a popular breakfast bar w stools, inside/outside dining. THIS is how to run a restaurant!!!!!
http://palmettobaysunrisecafe.com/

Signe's....a locals' favorite, small cafe-like, not the usual "same-old" breakfast, specialty dishes.
https://www.signesbakery.com/Defaul...m/images/contentimages/Signes_InstoreMenu.pdf

Southern Coney.....typical non-fancy hole-in-wall diner but really good basic breakfast, good service, in shopping center where Wild Wing Cafe is located, across from New York Pizza on Pope Ave...known for fantastic pancakes, good prices.
no website, but location: https://plus.google.com/118437648503921409663/aboutgl=us&hl=en

Skillets...basic menu, standard breakfast, in Coligny Plaza. average but OK.
http://www.skilletscafe.com/

Hilton Head Diner.......menus for all meals, but breakfast is best. Has large selection of breakfast items, and they are pretty good. Nothing really special but average to good. Open 24 hours.
http://www.hiltonheaddiner.com/

..........................................................................

This Restaurant Guide is 99% derived from my personal research and testing, and reflects my own personal opinion. The perfect day for us (if truth be known) would include Palmetto Bay Sunrise Cafe for breakfast, Low Country Backyard for lunch, and Santa Fe for dinner.

A typical WEEK for us might include dinners at Santa Fe, Old Oyster Factory, Frankie Bones, Mellow Mushroom, Black Marlin Bayside Grill, Charlie's L'Etoile Verte, & Wild Wing Cafe; 2 breakfasts at Palmetto Bay Sunrise Cafe and one at Southern Coney, and the others in the villa; lunch at Truffles, A Low Country Backyard, 2 or 3 at Grande Ocean's poolside Dolphin Grille or at the Marketplace Deli, Main Street Cafe & Pub, homemade sandwiches in the villa, and maybe one at the Harbour Town Bakery and Cafe.

However, check the menus and other information and decide for yourself. Choosing where to dine out remains my only mental exercise of each day at Hilton Head, and it can get downright difficult.
It's a tough life. Enjoy!!!


.

 

[pedro47]

We liked the Trellis on Sea Pine Plantation for lunch.

 

[FlyerBobcat]

Very disappointed to see this online, as I was going to add EAT! to the list: Robert Irvine's eat! - CLOSED

http://www.islandpacket.com/2013/12/30/2871035/celebrity-chef-robert-irvines.html

 

[aka Julie]

Very disappointed to see this online, as I was going to add this to the list: Robert Irvine's eat! - CLOSED

http://www.islandpacket.com/2013/12/30/2871035/celebrity-chef-robert-irvines.html

We ate at Irvine's other restaurant in the Tanger outlet and thought it was awful (both service and food). Never ate at the one on the island.

 

[Janette]

Marty, you forgot Kenny B's for very casual seafood and breakfast. Eating at Room with a view most nights on STT. Not the restaurant but 552 here at FC. Only 10 more days of paradise.

 

[jme]

Marty, you forgot Kenny B's for very casual seafood and breakfast. Eating at Room with a view most nights on STT. Not the restaurant but 552 here at FC. Only 10 more days of paradise.

oops sure did....and we like kenny B's.....sheesh, i'll fix that

...........................

DONE!!! thanks Janette.

 

[Laurie]

We like Kingfishers at Shelter Cove. I don't see it mentioned often and have spoken to some who didn't care for it, but we think it's excellent, especially if you're a fan of fried flounder like I am, always fresh not frozen, and also yummy mashed potatoes with bacon & cheddar cheese. Great view across the harbor, walking distance from Disney. And they run good specials - free entree when you buy 1 at greater or = value - in Jan and Feb. The HHI booklet they give out at the SC Welcome Center has a little coupon and those books are all around the island.

We were very disappointed at Sea Shack - it looked great when we walked in, but couldn't even eat everything they served.

We also like Bomboras Grill for a quick bowl of chili, and Market St Cafe has the very best key lime pie.

 

[SueDonJ]

We spent a couple hours last week at the Coastal Discovery Museum up near the bridge, lots of historical info in the museum and a short walk through the grounds. During the warmer months they have a pretty full activities calendar.

We also finally located the Stoney-Baynard Ruins in Sea Pines. That was interesting but the best part of the visit was seeing my first Barred Owl on one of the short trails.

** Special thanks go to TUGger MULTIZ321 - Richard's been very helpful directing us to many of our HHI tours.

 

[SueDonJ]

Another thing we've liked to visit is Heritage Farm, one of the island's community gardens, located directly across the road from Lawton Stables. We've found that many of the locals tending their gardens are more than welcoming if you're looking to talk about it. One very nice man sent us away with eggplant that we cooked for dinner that night.

 

[jme]

We like Kingfishers at Shelter Cove. I don't see it mentioned often and have spoken to some who didn't care for it, but we think it's excellent, especially if you're a fan of fried flounder like I am, always fresh not frozen, and also yummy mashed potatoes with bacon & cheddar cheese. Great view across the harbor, walking distance from Disney. And they run good specials - free entree when you buy 1 at greater or = value - in Jan and Feb. The HHI booklet they give out at the SC Welcome Center has a little coupon and those books are all around the island.

We were very disappointed at Sea Shack - it looked great when we walked in, but couldn't even eat everything they served.

We also like Bomboras Grill for a quick bowl of chili, and Market St Cafe has the very best key lime pie.

I had Kingfisher's in, but then decided to leave it out....it's hit or miss with Kingfisher's, and because of the inconsistency of late, I didn't want anyone mad at me. It is a great place if you happen to hit a good night, tho, so keep it in mind. I may still add it, not convinced yet. too many other consistently good places, and that's important. Good point, tho, thanks. If I get some good feedback in near future, I'll add it back in the mix.