converting fixed weeks to points.

[ronparise]

There have been several threads lately talking about converting fixed weeks to points. Rather then digging them up and posting something to each one Im starting a new thread.

My reason for posting this isnt to provide a "how to" guide, but rather to report on just how helpful Wyndhams sales people, transfer dept, owner services, the VCs and the folks (I dont know who they are) in the bowels of Wyndham's Las Vegas offices, are, that made this happen for me.

First of what did I do? I converted 3 fixed weeks to fairly low cost (low mf) points contracts. Wyndham required a small new points contract to be purchased, to make it happen. . My total cost to buy the weeks and to buy the new points contract and do the conversion was $12000 and I got 1,071,000 points; mf under $5/1000 points.

I had a deadline to get this done (tomorrow) so I could credit pool the 2013 points that came with the conversion

I had to buy the weeks, and get them in my name, (thank you to the transfer dept in Orlando) Sales had to get this deal approved. Doing 3 conversions with one small purchase required an exception (Thank you Joe), and the Las Vegas crowd had to do the conversions. This was taking longer than it should, so thanks to Ed in owner services for taking up my case and pushing it forward. Everything came together Friday (thank you Las Vegas) and the points were in my account yesterday. And thanks to the VC who got my new 2013 points into the Points Credit Pool before the Sept 30 deadline

Why did I do this? Ive become frustrated with the cost to buy cheap mf contracts on the secondary market, and I needed some more points. I took this route of buying and converting some fixed weeks because I could and I hoped it would turn out to be cheaper than buying points contracts.

I think it worked out OK, I paid just over a penny a point, for contracts with all the 2013 points. I credit pooled all the 2013, 2014 and 2015 points and have contracted with a travel club to provide reservations with these points. The price we agreed on is $6/1000 points or just over $18000. To get to the end of the year, I have to pay 3 months of maintenance fees out of the $18000. so Ill net about $16800, less the $12000 the deal cost me or $4800 "profit".

Im a happy camper, and its thanks to the help and cooperation of the folks at Wyndham who made it happen for me

disclaimer....As Super Dave might say...
"Kids; dont try this at home...Im a professional stunt man"

 

[massvacationer]

Ron:

Very interesting.

Would these points count towards VIP eligibility, since you bought a small new points contract directly from Wyndham?

In other words, could one get VIP status by doing this (assuming no prior ownership of retail/developer points)

 

[ira g]

There have been several threads lately talking about converting fixed weeks to points. Rather then digging them up and posting something to each one Im starting a new thread.

My reason for posting this isnt to provide a "how to" guide, but rather to report on just how helpful Wyndhams sales people, transfer dept, owner services, the VCs and the folks (I dont know who they are) in the bowels of Wyndham's Las Vegas offices, are, that made this happen for me.

First of what did I do? I converted 3 fixed weeks to fairly low cost (low mf) points contracts. Wyndham required a small new points contract to be purchased, to make it happen. . My total cost to buy the weeks and to buy the new points contract and do the conversion was $12000 and I got 1,071,000 points; mf under $5/1000 points.

I had to buy the weeks, and get them in my name, (thank you to the transfer dept in Orlando) Sales had to get this deal approved. Doing 3 conversions with one small purchase required an exception (Thank you Joe), and the Las Vegas crowd had to do the conversions. This was taking longer than it should, so thanks to Ed in owner services for taking up my case and pushing it forward. Everything came together Friday (thank you Las Vegas) and the points were in my account yesterday. And thanks to the VC who got my new 2013 points into the Points Credit Pool before the Sept 30 deadline

Why did I do this? Ive become frustrated with the cost to buy cheap mf contracts on the secondary market, and I needed some more points. I took this route of buying and converting some fixed weeks because I could and I hoped it would turn out to be cheaper than buying points contracts.

I think it worked out OK, I paid just over a penny a point, for contracts with all the 2013 points. I credit pooled all the 2013, 2014 and 2015 points and have contracted with a travel club to provide reservations with these points. The price we agreed on is $6/1000 points or just over $18000. To get to the end of the year, I have to pay 3 months of maintenance fees out of the $18000. so Ill net about $16800, less the $12000 the deal cost me or $4800 "profit".

Im a happy camper, and its thanks to the help and cooperation of the folks at Wyndham who made it happen for me

disclaimer....As Super Dave might say...
"Kids; dont try this at home...Im a professional stunt man"

Ron- Do you have to pay the 2014 and 2015 MF? Does this change your profit to a loss? for cash flow purposes?

 

[ronparise]

Ron:

Very interesting.

Would these points count towards VIP eligibility, since you bought a small new points contract directly from Wyndham?

In other words, could one get VIP status by doing this (assuming no prior ownership of retail/developer points)

One did...... But that's the risky part. There was no guarantee going in, that the loophole I was trying to exploit would be open for me.. It was a shot in the dark, and Wyndham is, I understand, actively working to close it

 

[ronparise]

Ron- Do you have to pay the 2014 and 2015 MF? Does this change your profit to a loss? for cash flow purposes?

I do have to pay 2014 and 2015 mf which is why I put profit in quotes. Its not really profit, but it is money in my pocket. Ill be using my 2016 points to pay 2014 mf and 2017 points to pay 2015.

Instead of profit, a better way to put it would be I borrowed my future points and rented them for the money to pay for the purchase....Its a page taken from the Mitt Romney- Bain Capitol school of business. I used the asset to pay for itself. (or as my grandmother might have said...I robbed Peter to pay Paul)

 

[antjmar]

I credit pooled all the 2013, 2014 and 2015 points and have contracted with a travel club to provide reservations with these points. The price we agreed on is $6/1000 points or just over $18000.

Ron, Thanks for sharing but I am curios why you did this?
If anyone knows how to "use the system" its you! And you seem to be renting successfully already. Why didnt you just keep the points and use the VIP discounts and free upgrades to generate more income?

 

[vacationhopeful]

Ron, Thanks for sharing but I am curios why you did this?
If anyone knows how to "use the system" its you! And you seem to be renting successfully already. Why didnt you just keep the points and use the VIP discounts and free upgrades to generate more income?

I know if I was running the number of points as Ron - these would be my reasons:
More phone and internet coverage than WHAT one person can provide.
Other labor is cheaper than MY labor would be.
Leveraging my efforts for the best rate of return.
Better book keeping and cheaper rates for some cost factors (like a web site for thousand of rentals verse 300) and collecting & paying taxes to multiple states & local governments.

 

[ronparise]

Ron, Thanks for sharing but I am curios why you did this?
If anyone knows how to "use the system" its you! And you seem to be renting successfully already. Why didnt you just keep the points and use the VIP discounts and free upgrades to generate more income?

Linda offers a number of good reasons and they are important. But the biggest reason is that my buying activity has gotten ahead of my rental activity. I have more points than I have rental customers, so I need help.

It looks like my buying has to slow down because the prices are going up, so with any luck Ill catch up and sometime down the road I wont need as much help. but there is another reason to do this.

The other big reason Im farming out a lot of what I own is that Im getting old and I dont have anyone to do the work, if Im not around. The plan is to build something that will last a long time, with or without me, and continue to provide an income for me in my old age and for the folks I leave behind when I die.

 

[Bigrob]

I know if I was running the number of points as Ron - these would be my reasons:
More phone and internet coverage than WHAT one person can provide.
Other labor is cheaper than MY labor would be.
Leveraging my efforts for the best rate of return.
Better book keeping and cheaper rates for some cost factors (like a web site for thousand of rentals verse 300) and collecting & paying taxes to multiple states & local governments.

All good reasons... and Ron has posted elsewhere that he is at a point level where he can use the help, plus this helps establish a transition path... if the arrangement works well, he could ultimately move more in that direction.

What's interesting is that after the conversion to points, those low MF contracts are probably still worth something, even though they're stripped of points. They're worth more to Ron than Joe Schmoe, since they carry VIP status with them for him but wouldn't on resale, but we saw even stripped contracts at low MF fee resorts sell on Ebay recently.

Ron, congrats, and glad it worked out for you!

 

[antjmar]

Linda offers a number of good reasons and they are important. But the biggest reason is that my buying activity has gotten ahead of my rental activity. I have more points than I have rental customers, so I need help.

It looks like my buying has to slow down because the prices are going up, so with any luck Ill catch up and sometime down the road I wont need as much help. but there is another reason to do this.

The other big reason Im farming out a lot of what I own is that Im getting old and I dont have anyone to do the work, if Im not around. The plan is to build something that will last a long time, with or without me, and continue to provide an income for me in my old age and for the folks I leave behind when I die.

Thank you for the replies.

 

[gelinasrj]

A Non-Professional Experience

It's great that as a professional you have found a way to cut a reasonable deal. As for me, my experience in converting a unit I owned for many years to Wyndham Points was a disaster with paperwork being fouled up and their failure to tell me about needing to pay a full years maintenance up front. Plus my ignorance of TUG at the time resulting in my buying a unit in Florida for almost $8000 and now paying close to $800 per year for 73000 points to get my fixed week converted to Club Wyndham.

My experience is still less than satisfying. I missed the 10 month window to book my unit (a unit that is exceptional at my resort). When I called Wyndham to ask about how to book my unit, I was told I had to contact the resort. I did that and several days later was told I had to book through the 800 Windham number. At that point, they would not book me into the unit I owned but offered me another "equivalent or same point value unit" at the resort. Since I know the units at this resort, I know they are really NOT equivalent. My unit had been assigned to a partial week reservation. Since they had units available for the week I own, and the fact that units are not really assigned until just before the reseration date I thought it was reasonable to request they make any computer entries required to get me my unit. No dice. They gave me the option of cancelling my Club Wyndham membership as the only way I can be assured of my unit. Of course if I do that, they will have to remove the current assignment anyway.

I guess if you are in the rental business, it doesn't matter what unit you get. BUT for us regular folks, beware if you convert a unit you would like to use on occasion. Unless you make your decision over 10 months in advance you are out of luck when it comes to using the unit.

 

[comicbookman]

I I credit pooled all the 2013, 2014 and 2015 points and have contracted with a travel club to provide reservations with these points. The price we agreed on is $6/1000 points or just over $18000. To get to the end of the year, I have to pay 3 months of maintenance fees out of the $18000. so Ill net about $16800, less the $12000 the deal cost me or $4800 "profit".

Ron, does the service have a 3mil minimum on points, or is that just the amount you decided to put under management?

 

[DeniseM]

Ron - did they let you convert your Hawaii weeks, without buying a developer week in Hawaii?

 

[ronparise]

It's great that as a professional you have found a way to cut a reasonable deal. As for me, my experience in converting a unit I owned for many years to Wyndham Points was a disaster with paperwork being fouled up and their failure to tell me about needing to pay a full years maintenance up front. Plus my ignorance of TUG at the time resulting in my buying a unit in Florida for almost $8000 and now paying close to $800 per year for 73000 points to get my fixed week converted to Club Wyndham.

My experience is still less than satisfying. I missed the 10 month window to book my unit (a unit that is exceptional at my resort). When I called Wyndham to ask about how to book my unit, I was told I had to contact the resort. I did that and several days later was told I had to book through the 800 Windham number. At that point, they would not book me into the unit I owned but offered me another "equivalent or same point value unit" at the resort. Since I know the units at this resort, I know they are really NOT equivalent. My unit had been assigned to a partial week reservation. Since they had units available for the week I own, and the fact that units are not really assigned until just before the reseration date I thought it was reasonable to request they make any computer entries required to get me my unit. No dice. They gave me the option of cancelling my Club Wyndham membership as the only way I can be assured of my unit. Of course if I do that, they will have to remove the current assignment anyway.

I guess if you are in the rental business, it doesn't matter what unit you get. BUT for us regular folks, beware if you convert a unit you would like to use on occasion. Unless you make your decision over 10 months in advance you are out of luck when it comes to using the unit.

I hate to sound cold and un caring, but It sounds to me that your converted week works exactly the way its supposed to. Your week is your week. You still hold the deed, but you exchanged it for participation in the points program, In the ARP reservation window (13 months to 10 months) you can reserve your specific unit/week. In the Standard reservation window, your unit/week is available to all of us, and all of our weeks are available to you. Thats the way points work. Its made pretty clear in the Wyndham owners directory.

And please dont think that it dosent matter to me since I just rent my weeks. It matters a lot. Some weeks command a much better rental value than others. I would never convert my Mardi Gras event weeks for example. Again I hate to sound so cold, but if your week was so special to you, you should never have converted it to points. Regarding advanced mf payments...Fixed weeks mf are always paid in advance. And I know the frustration of tracking down the right folks in Wyndham to make reservations at fixed weeks...I own several and each one has a different process and phone numbers to get it done.

I can understand your frustration with the conversion process. I had to get Owner Services involved in my deal to get it done on time. and the fact you paid too much is another sore point Im sure. But you so have a special week, and you do have access to the points system. . You have the best of both worlds I think. But using what you have to full advantage is complex and you do have to plan ahead

Buying retail is almost never a good idea, and paying to convert a fixed week to points is almost never a good idea. I did both. As I said, I wasnt posting a "how-to" manual. I just wanted to publicly thank the people in Wyndham that helped me do it. And I never suggested it was a course that anyone else should follow. In fact I suggested in my half-assed disclaimer that I wasnt recommending what I did to anyone. I think I said something like "dont do what I did...its dangerous". You've done a better job warning folks than I did ...thanks for adding your experience to my thread.

 

[ronparise]

Ron - did they let you convert your Hawaii weeks, without buying a developer week in Hawaii?

It wasnt a full week, but I did have to buy a small udi points contract. Not even enough points for a week every other year in a studio in Value season. As I said in my original post it cost me $12000....$6000 down and $150 a month for the rest of my life

Was it worth it? For me I think yes, but only time will tell

 

[ronparise]

Ron, does the service have a 3mil minimum on points, or is that just the amount you decided to put under management?

I dont think he has a minimum, but he does want Platinum and exclusive access to the account