Neighbor's Tree Roots in Our Sewer Drain

[pedro47]

Under most standard homeowner's policies backup of sewer or drains is excluded unless the policy is specifically endorsed to add the coverage. If you want this covered be sure the policy amended if necessary.

I concur please add asap a sewer back-up addendum policy to your homeowner policy before this problem happen.

 

[urban5]

1970's sewer pipe material

This thread makes me wonder about our sewer pipes in our totally wooded neighborhood. I don't know how tall the trees are....but I'd guess 100' .....mostly oaks and some maples, I think. Our sewer pipes go right under/through maybe 200-250 feet of woods on our property before the street.

No problems yet in 25 years (except from freezing once), but???? The same would apply to all the ~250+ houses in this development and I haven't heard of any issues.....

What should be pipes be made of to avoid tree root problems? What materials were typically used in 1970? Apart from cutting down trees, which is not happening, what if any precautions or preventative maintenance should we do?

In the 70's housing sewer lines were usually two types of material, one was called "orangeburg" (after manufacturer) it was a tar impregnated paper fiber pipe like heavy duty tar paper and was prone to crushing and actual rotting over time. Second was called transite (asbestos cement) very durable and if installed correctly lasts for a long time. If not installed correctly usually due to improper back filling materials which put pressure on pipe deforming the joints and making it prone to root intrusion. Current material is PVC, and same improper back filling can cause problems with deforming of joints.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

In the 70's housing sewer lines were usually two types of material, one was called "orangeburg" (after manufacturer) it was a tar impregnated paper fiber pipe like heavy duty tar paper and was prone to crushing and actual rotting over time. Second was called transite (asbestos cement) very durable and if installed correctly lasts for a long time. If not installed correctly usually due to improper back filling materials which put pressure on pipe deforming the joints and making it prone to root intrusion. Current material is PVC, and same improper back filling can cause problems with deforming of joints.

Transite is totally unsuitable for sewer lines. The reason is that the crown (top) portion of a sewer is extremely acidic, and cement and acids are completely incompatible - acid dissolves cement in very little time. In the 1970's in the west, where I was involved with water and sewer construction standards and review, no type of cement pipe, including transite, was allowed in residential sewer service.

In the 1970's in the western US the only materials allowed were:

• vitrified clay pipe (pictured below)
  
  
  
  ,
  
  and
  
  
• solvent welded PVC or ABS plastic, with ABS being by far the more common.

IMHO - if you have a transite sewer lateral that hasn't failed you should consider yourself lucky and be sure that you have money set for the inevitable repair.

 

[Kal]

Not sure I agree with you here, Ken. The copper sulfate gets added as crystals which take a while to dissolve and get embedded in the sediment and gunk on the bottom of the sower. So if you use an adequate amount the treatment actually extends for a week or longer. Copper sulfate is also pretty quick acting - if you copper sulfate a pond for weed control the results are pretty immediate.

I'm actually speaking about my own experience last fall. I had the roto guy here twice in a year. The last time with a camera and DVD to determine the details of the problem. If the roots are entering at the bottom of the sewer line there is a good chance that copper will kill the exposed roots. Not so good if the roots are entering the top of the line as it's very difficult to get sufficient volumetric flow and residence time to completely fill the pipe at the point of root impact. At best, the roots within the pipe will be killed, but it's the network of roots still outside the pipe that will continue to grow and seek out the moist nutrients within the pipe. As long as there is an open penetration in the pipe, the roots will get back in.

Unfortunately, that last episode of toilet back up occurred when I had overnight house guests using that bathroom. So my friend blamed the whole problem on his wife for excessive use of tp Hate it when that happens!! :ignore:

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I'm actually speaking about my own experience last fall. I had the roto guy here twice in a year. The last time with a camera and DVD to determine the details of the problem. If the roots are entering at the bottom of the sewer line there is a good chance that copper will kill the exposed roots. Not so good if the roots are entering the top of the line as it's very difficult to get sufficient volumetric flow and residence time to completely fill the pipe at the point of root impact. At best, the roots within the pipe will be killed, but it's the network of roots still outside the pipe that will continue to grow and seek out the moist nutrients within the pipe. As long as there is an open penetration in the pipe, the roots will get back in.

Unfortunately, that last episode of toilet back up occurred when I had overnight house guests using that bathroom. So my friend blamed the whole problem on his wife for excessive use of tp Hate it when that happens!! :ignore:

Perchance he was being diplomatic in ascribing it to TP? :ignore: :ignore:

But, yeah, once there is an opening into the sewer system, dealing with roots is an ongoing maintenance issue, not a one-time fix. And if you have the problem sending some copper sulfate down the toiler every six to twelve months is a lot more palatable than excavating the laterial to try to locate the break and then fixing the break.

But if you're getting back-up at the roots, the copper sulfate will still hit them even if they're entering from the top.

Don't you just love those shallow-rooted Douglas firs?

 

[Kal]

...Don't you just love those shallow-rooted Douglas firs?

My Doug Firs have not yet caused a problem even though 4 of them are >200 ft tall. The problem I had was just a bush. The good news, it wasn't under the drive way, but the bad news, it was under a big rockery. Had to disassemble the rockery and dig down 5 feet. For some crazy reason, the builder installed a clean-out "Y" in the clay tile and just capped it with a loose plastic cap. I replaced that assembly with a heavy ABS "Y" and riser to the surface of the rockery. Covered the entire connection with concrete and now I'm good to go.

 

[nightnurse613]

Another interesting solution; the City of Phoenix just contracted with a company (Service Line Warranty Program) and allows them to sell sewer pipe repair policies (for any repair to the pipe from the house to the connection) - up to $4000 per incident. I don't recall how much the policy was but it seemed cheaper than $600 a year for a rooter service (the actual cost is about $67 a year in advance). Of course, not that many trees in Phoenix (unless you count palm trees) but maybe a solution in your HOA or area??!!