Raintree Blue at Puerto Vallarta Club Regina

[dchapman3668]

We haven't been to Club Regina at Puerto Vallarta for a number of years. We went for an update. Our salesman told us that the boom in timeshare is past and that now people are concerned about the high maintenance fees and the increase every year. He said that the internet is pretty much killing timeshare. He also said that for our Saffire level that we would pay 200k in maintenance fees before the contract expires in 2046. He wanted to sell us a Raintree Blue membership to "help us get out of contract in 7-15 years."

I did a silent burn for awhile as I thought about how we were talked into buying the product and now we are being offered "a deal" (Raintree Blue) for $7500 to get out of the contract....plus a big jump in maintenance fees for the required upgrade to Emerald level.

We do love the Club Regina in Puerto Vallarta but it was our first timeshare purchase and we bought from the developer paying top dollar. It is a poor trader especially compared to Worldmark which we bought on the secondary market. Now we just need to get out of the contract cause we can't afford the ever increasing maintenance fees.

I wonder if the most timeshares are going to collapse under the weight of these increasing fees that many many people will not be able to pay. Perhaps it is best to gamble that if we just hold on the whole thing will collapse ... but on the other hand if it doesn't collapse we may get sued when we can't afford the fees....???

I am leaning toward just paying the $7500 to get out while a can.

Anyway, in spite of all this, we had a lovely vacation. The Club is great and we love Puerto Vallarta and the marina area. Going to the Club in PV us always a highlight of our year.

 

[Passepartout]

That's a new wrinkle. Pay them $7500 and higher MF to get out sooner. Something's fishy and it ain't Banderas bay.

Do yourself a favor. Check eBay and see what weeks in your resort actually sell for. Methinks you will come to the decision that you can keep what you have as long as you get enjoyment from it, then give it away on the TUG Bargain Deals or elsewhere.

Added: I checked for you. One sold for $42.17 and included 80,000 RCI Points, and one week there rented for $750. 2 are listed for $1250 buy it now with no offers.

Don't pay a dollar (or peso) upfront to get out of it (sooner) never. If you pay them their ransom, who's to say in 10 years or so they won't come up with another 'deal' to let you out early.

All the best.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I wanted to pipe in and say that the Raintree 7 and Raintree 15 programs are not necessarily bad deals (even though they are developer purchases) under appropriate circumstances. In fact having sat through the presentation and examined it in some detail, I've concluded this is one situation where, if the circumstances are correct, it might make sense to buy.

For owners who:

- are reaching retirement years
- still want to use their Raintree membership for the near future
- expect that their traveling days will be over before the end of the contract; and
- can't net any proceeds by selling the contract on the open market and don't wish to terminate the contract by defaulting on the contract​

then the program might be attractive. This will particularly be the case for Raintree members who have a gold level (50,000 points) or lower level of ownership. For people in those contracts the Raintree 7 and 15 programs might look pretty good. Especially since Raintree seems to be willing to include a proviso that if you enroll in the program you will be shielded from special assessments. There might also be some attraction in the program for a Club Regina member holding one of the contracts that expires in 2026 or thereabouts if they can only see themselves using the contract fewer than about ten more times.

We were at CR Puerto Vallarta last week and we came within a whisker of making a Raintree 7 conversion. The primary reasons I didn't make the conversion was because as a platinum member I believe I can find a taker for my contract if I don't want it. If I were a gold member I'm pretty sure we would have taken up the offer.

*****

I also especially liked in the presentation that they didn't present the offer as a "buy today or this offer is gone" situation. It was the only sales presentation I have even been to where the salesman said, "we think this program makes so much sense that we are sure that if you go away and think about it and collect more information you will come back and buy because you are even more convinced of the value." If you had been sitting in the room with me I would have asked you to help me dig halfway through the lithosphere to recover my bottom jaw - those are words I never thought I would hear in a timeshare sales presentation. They let us leave with all of the sales materials - the key details of the offer, the salesman's scratch sheet with all of his numbers, boxes, arrows, etc., descriptions of the program features, and take all of the time I wanted to look them over and ask additional questions.

***

I note the OP is sapphire level. so I don't see where the conversion makes sense. A sapphire membership (right now) ought to be have positive resale value, so there's no point to spend money to be able to effectuate a contract winddown at that level. (Can't blame the salesman for trying, though.)

But as far as the overall program goes - in providing an option for older members to winddown a previous commitment that is likely to outlive them - this is a program that has potential and should not be immediately dismissed out of hand as the usual developer sales sham.

It's certainly doesn't work for everyone, but I came away thinking that this is a reasonable first stab by a developer at addressing the situation of an aging ownership demographic who are at a situation where it makes sense to provide a way to get out. I'm not in any way saying this is an optimum answer, but it's the first realistic recognition I've seen from a developer that this is a problem that needs to be addressed and they've proposed a strategy to address the situation instead of saying "not our problem".

 

[DonnaD]

Raintree update

We are in Cancun and met with sales manager at Club Regina. We own 260,000 points making us double sapphire owners. Our offer gave us the option of 7, 10,12,15,18 or 20 yrs. We could double up using 2 sets of points by paying double maintenance and use up our points in less time. We could also opt to skip paying fee for a year if we did not want to use it. At end of usage term, we have option to extend our term 3 or 5 yrs. if we wish to do so.

My thought is, double up the use in next 10 to 15 years and use up our quota of points and spend extended time in sunny Mexico during January to mid March. Let our kids take their families on vacations using some points. When we cannot travel anymore, our kids families can use the remaining weeks up.

The one catch in my plan is if something happens to one of us and we cannot travel, or one of us dies prematurely, then the other would have to find a travel companion or travel alone.
Even if our plan works perfectly and we use up our points, we could be liable for an assessment, if they charge one even afterward. That stinks.

I would appreciate advice and input. Our proposal was $5000 to upgrade to a diamond level at 320,000 points and then choose the term of use. The price of the upgrade depends on the equity you have in your membership and the variance in cost from your current level to the next higher level.

I don't see a great advantage to taking the offer right now when I can spend 10 weeks primetime in a 1 bedroom condo and as a BLUE MEMBER, we get ocean front room.
Is my analysis correct or am I missing something?

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

We are in Cancun and met with sales manager at Club Regina. We own 260,000 points making us double sapphire owners. Our offer gave us the option of 7, 10,12,15,18 or 20 yrs. We could double up using 2 sets of points by paying double maintenance and use up our points in less time. We could also opt to skip paying fee for a year if we did not want to use it. At end of usage term, we have option to extend our term 3 or 5 yrs. if we wish to do so.

My thought is, double up the use in next 10 to 15 years and use up our quota of points and spend extended time in sunny Mexico during January to mid March. Let our kids take their families on vacations using some points. When we cannot travel anymore, our kids families can use the remaining weeks up.

The one catch in my plan is if something happens to one of us and we cannot travel, or one of us dies prematurely, then the other would have to find a travel companion or travel alone.
Even if our plan works perfectly and we use up our points, we could be liable for an assessment, if they charge one even afterward. That stinks.

I would appreciate advice and input. Our proposal was $5000 to upgrade to a diamond level at 320,000 points and then choose the term of use. The price of the upgrade depends on the equity you have in your membership and the variance in cost from your current level to the next higher level.

I don't see a great advantage to taking the offer right now when I can spend 10 weeks primetime in a 1 bedroom condo and as a BLUE MEMBER, we get ocean front room.
Is my analysis correct or am I missing something?

My take is that what the program is attractive when you can see yourself wrapping up your usage within about ten to fifteen years, you can get good usage out of an increment of added points (such as upgrading a unit of size so that you can do extended family vacations) and there isn't another viable exit strategy for you except a planned default.

So unless I'm missing something I don't see the advantage in your circumstance, particularly if you are not insulated from future special assessments. If you can include in your contract that you are insulated from SA's you might want to think about it a bit. I emphasize that I can easily see the advantage for members in different circumstances.

 

[JudyS]

What is Raintree Blue?

I take it Raintree 7 and Raintree 15 are programs where you can reduce your contract to 7 or 15 years, respectively, for a fee? And it also includes the ability to get additional points for those 7 or 15 years, plus maybe some other perks?

I've looked into Raintree because they have nice resorts, but I've shied away because they keep doing things like tacking on huge "cleaning" fees. Steve, do you feel that it is still worth buying Raintree (resale)?

...
I also especially liked in the presentation that they didn't present the offer as a "buy today or this offer is gone" situation. It was the only sales presentation I have even been to where the salesman said, "we think this program makes so much sense that we are sure that if you go away and think about it and collect more information you will come back and buy because you are even more convinced of the value." If you had been sitting in the room with me I would have asked you to help me dig halfway through the lithosphere to recover my bottom jaw - those are words I never thought I would hear in a timeshare sales presentation. ....

That is amazing! Even DVC offers a "first day incentive," I think. (Not that I've checked lately.)

 

[x3 skier]

As a low level Raintree member and fitting the profile Steve mentioned, I converted last year. I actually deveoped the same rationale Steve did and figured it was the simplest way to shed the membership early while still getting some good vacations. I did the first contact via phone and after getting all the paperwork, signed on. No pressure from Raintree and they said take as long as I wanted/needed to check it out.

I bought the Club Regina membership for $1 on eBay a few years ago, tried to give it away with no luck and after checking the 7 & 15 year programs, did the conversion. Since then, I have used the points with no problem in Park City and for kids vacations.

All things considered, it works for me. Just wish they would finish updating their web site which is a minor annoyance in not being able to book stays.

Cheers

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

As a low level Raintree member and fitting the profile Steve mentioned, I converted last year. I actually deveoped the same rationale Steve did and figured it was the simplest way to shed the membership early while still getting some good vacations. I did the first contact via phone and after getting all the paperwork, signed on. No pressure from Raintree and they said take as long as I wanted/needed to check it out.

I bought the Club Regina membership for $1 on eBay a few years ago, tried to give it away with no luck and after checking the 7 & 15 year programs, did the conversion. Since then, I have used the points with no problem in Park City and for kids vacations.

All things considered, it works for me. Just wish they would finish updating their web site which is a minor annoyance in not being able to book stays.

Cheers

I think you fit the program to a tee. Low level existing contract that limits your options. Pick up some added points to give yourself added flexibility and use the system either seven times more or fifteen times more, and then you're done. Plus shield yourself from any SAs that might come along. Perfect.
\

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

What is Raintree Blue?

I take it Raintree 7 and Raintree 15 are programs where you can reduce your contract to 7 or 15 years, respectively, for a fee? And it also includes the ability to get additional points for those 7 or 15 years, plus maybe some other perks?

The program puts a 15-year cap on the remaining life of the contract. I think you also need to add 20,000 points to the contract. If you take Raintree 15, you get 15 uses out of the contract, and then the contract is over. You pay annual fees. With Raintree 7 you get seven uses and are essentially in EOY status, with fees due EOY.

You can book more than one reservation in a year (and pay an added annual fee for each additional reservation), though all reservations after the first one can only be booked 60 days before check-in. If you're on a Raintree 7 and you book in your off year, then you pay an annual fee. So you can burn through the contract pretty quickly if you have the time and inclination, or you can stretch it out over 15 years.

You also have to be over 55 years of age to get into the program.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I've looked into Raintree because they have nice resorts, but I've shied away because they keep doing things like tacking on huge "cleaning" fees. Steve, do you feel that it is still worth buying Raintree (resale)?

The cleaning fees are associated with resorts that are affiliated, not directly owned. If you're not interested in those resorts then it's not an issue.

Clearing that out of the way, if Raintree is still of interest and you nearing or over 55 then the Raintree 15 or 7 programs present an interesting opportunity.

Pick up a resale that is just below the point level that you want, probably for little or nothing unless you are shooting for a large points level. Then get the ownership added to the Raintree 15 or 7 program, buying an additional chunk of points to get the ownership up to the level that you want.

Contrast that with simply buying the point level you need at resale, but that will probably leave you obligated until 2046.

 

[JudyS]

Thanks very much for the explanation, Steve.

What is the ballpark price for the Raintree 7/15 program? (The OP mentioned $7500, but I wasn't sure if that was for the Raintree 7/15 program or Raintree Blue. I'm still not sure what Raintree Blue is.)

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Thanks very much for the explanation, Steve.

What is the ballpark price for the Raintree 7/15 program? (The OP mentioned $7500, but I wasn't sure if that was for the Raintree 7/15 program or Raintree Blue. I'm still not sure what Raintree Blue is.)

They were wanting $11k on my offer, but I didn't do any negotiation because there wasn't any point in wasting time on negotiating before I knew for sure if the program was of general interest to me or not.

 

[JudyS]

Thanks, Steve!

There are not many timeshares I'd pay $11k for! Guess I'll pass on Raintree for now.

 

[DonnaD]

cost of Raintree upgrade & RAINTREE BLUE EXPLAINED

As I understand it, the cost of switching your membership depends on the equity of your current level of membership Nd the difference in cost for the next level of ownership. I asked sales manager here what cost would be for us to keep our current level and just switch the term and it was $4000. To upgrade to next level and switch would be $5000 due to the equity we have in the memberships we bought and combined. We currently own double sapphire which is 260,000 points. Diamond is 320,000 points. Manager researched our equity position to determine our net costs.
RAINTREE BLUE IS A MEMBERSHIP LEVEL OF 160,000 POINTS OR HIGHER. BLUE MEMBERS GET BEST ROOMS, 30% DISCOUNT ON RESTAURANT IN RESORT. THEY TURN DOWN OUR BEDS, LEAVE MINTS ON PILLOWS, PUT FRUIT AND BEVERAGES IN REFRIGERATOR AT TIME OF ARRIVAL, AND GIVE YOU ROYAL TREATMENT. EMERALD IS 160,000 POINTS WITH MAINT.FEE OF $2151, RUBY IS 240,000 POINTS WITH M.F. OF $3039, DIAMOND IS 320,000 WITH M.F. OF $3946.
USE OF POINTS: 20,000 FOR KITCHEN STUDIO, 30,000 BEDROOM STUDIO, 50,000 ONE BEDROOM, 80,000 FOR2 BDRM. IN CLUB REGINA IN PRIME TIME. SELECT SEASON THE USE IS 30,000 FOR 1 BEDRM, 50000 FOR 2 BEDROOM.
If you have specific questions, send them to me as I am in Cancun for 1 more week. We have spent 7 weeks at Club Regina Cancun and use it as our winter home away from home. It has been delightful.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Thanks, Steve!

There are not many timeshares I'd pay $11k for! Guess I'll pass on Raintree for now.

I wouldn't pay $11k either. But I also made no attempts at negotiation. I figured that I could probably have found a deal that worked at about $5k had I proceeded.

****

In case you haven't noted this, one key aspect of Raintree is that maintenance fees do not increase proportionally with number of points. The more points you own, the lower the maintenance fees on a per point basis.

 

[aleksir]

I'm a B-Share (2026) Platinum equivalent. Raintree 7 was offered to me last summer via email with a conversion fee of $995 to EOY RVC 80,000 points. It was very tempting but we passed.

We enjoy Club Regina Puerto Vallarta and are heading down within the month.

 

[JudyS]

Thanks for all the information!

Steve, yes, I noticed that the higher points levels (especially the "gem" levels) are a better deal.

 

[Jim5506]

Raintree 7 Conversion.

We are a Bronze member at Club Regina Puerto Vallarta and paid $7,000 for our even year membership in 2007.

Our offer is for $1,195 to convert to 7 remaining use years and reduce our term from 35 more alternate years to 15.

I think this is a no-brainer - we have not used this membership in the last 5 years and are not likely to use it because we have a better RCI affiliated timeshare (use it regularly) and we are looking for a way to get rid of the Raintree obligation, but it is so small and un-valuable, we can't even give it away.

We can get out from under over $10,000 in maintenance fees coming in the future by jumping from 10,000 points to 20,000, maintenance fees don't go up too much and we're done by 2028 instead of 2048 (I'll be 98 yrs old by then).

The more I think about it the better it looks.

I'll bet Raintree is having a boatload of people defaulting on their contracts and this is their method to help stop the bleeding.