Creating a liquid timeshare resale market

[Beefnot]

Nobody joins the VSVC and no body owns a week in the trust. In fact thats the point...it only would serve as a dumping ground for those that want out of their timeshare.

Most prime owners don't want out of their timeshare. So would these prime owners be deeding the weeks out of their names to the trust? If delinquent owners and special assessments and other factors bring the trust to its knees, what would that do to those prime owners?

And I still don't understand how this model creates an exit strategy for owners who have to tap out (be it due to financial issues, health, or disinterest).

 

[ronparise]

Sorry, I guess I am missing the boat. <Groan, bad joke.>

If an owner has a blue week, give it away, deed it back to the HOA if possible, or default and deal with the consequences. Why should we even allow a ship full of holes to sail in the first place?

It will take a long time to resolve, but so be it! Why should I care about the "industry"? I just wanna go on vacation!

You care because we are all in the same boat...Your mf is going up because the blue week owners at your resort are walking away...

You care because the consequences of a forclosure are more severe for the HOA bringing the action, than for the guy they foreclose on

You care because if you dont care some s.o.b. like me is going to start taking any and all timeshares left at my door, as long as mf is paid up and a check for 2 more years is included....And Ill walk away. I wont even try to sell them like the PCCs we all love to hate

 

[ampaholic]

Sorry, I guess I am missing the boat. <Groan, bad joke.>

If an owner has a blue week, give it away, deed it back to the HOA if possible, or default and deal with the consequences. Why should we even allow a ship full of holes to sail in the first place?

It will take a long time to resolve, but so be it! Why should I care about the "industry"? I just wanna go on vacation!

VSVT By Law #17a:

The Trust will accept the deed of an interval designated as a "blue" week by the Board of Trustees under the following two conditions:

A. The interval must be free and clear of all encumbrances including unpaid maintenance fees.
B. The payment upon initiation of closing of a sum in US dollars equal to 2 times the current annual Maintenance Fee for that interval.

By Law #17b: covers biennial deeds, triennial, floaters etc.

---

Just legal mumbo jumbo to be worked out - easy peasy

 

[ronparise]

Most prime owners don't want out of their timeshare. So would these prime owners be deeding the weeks out of their names to the trust? If delinquent owners and special assessments and other factors bring the trust to its knees, what would that do to those prime owners?

And I still don't understand how this model creates an exit strategy for owners who have to tap out (be it due to financial issues, health, or disinterest).

The trust is the buyer of last resort. They will take all deeds. Some sellers will pay the trust to to get out (blue week sellers) and some the trust will pay (red week sellers)

This is nothing but an honest and ethical PCC set up to take timeshares and put them to use instead of abandoning them

 

[ampaholic]

Most prime owners don't want out of their timeshare. So would these prime owners be deeding the weeks out of their names to the trust? If delinquent owners and special assessments and other factors bring the trust to its knees, what would that do to those prime owners?

And I still don't understand how this model creates an exit strategy for owners who have to tap out (be it due to financial issues, health, or disinterest).

Some people take good stuff to the pawn shop and some people take not so good.

The pawn shop serves them all.

There are many "prime" weeks that come up on ebay - so the current unethical and dishonest PCC's are getting them - why not VSVT?

 

[strandlover]

You care because we are all in the same boat...Your mf is going up because the blue week owners at your resort are walking away...

You care because the consequences of a forclosure are more severe for the HOA bringing the action, than for the guy they foreclose on

You care because if you dont care some s.o.b. like me is going to start taking any and all timeshares left at my door, as long as mf is paid up and a check for 2 more years is included....And Ill walk away. I wont even try to sell them like the PCCs we all love to hate

Yes, I care about my home resort, not the industry. The solution is at the grass roots, not on a Viking Ship. There are opportunities to market blue weeks on a smaller scale. One MF default and the HOA deeds the week back, that's it that's all. Incent (with a nice commission) front desk staff to rent (or sell) these weeks when calls come in. If someone rents blue week in year one, offer it sell it to them for $1 and stay that week for life.

I don't care about entrepreneurs who have spun off businesses owning impressive timeshare portfolios. Congrats to those who are successful. You deserve whatever profits come your way. You took the risk.

But please, don't come to the rest of us when your house of cards is crumbling. We are not TARP v2.0

 

[ampaholic]

This is nothing but an honest and ethical PCC set up to take timeshares and put them to use instead of abandoning them

Wow, TUGGERS moving from railing against PCC's to plotting to form one.

Hey, where's the OP on this?

 

[bizaro86]

Yes, I care about my home resort, not the industry. The solution is at the grass roots, not on a Viking Ship. There are opportunities to market blue weeks on a smaller scale. One MF default and the HOA deeds the week back, that's it that's all. Incent (with a nice commission) front desk staff to rent (or sell) these weeks when calls come in. If someone rents blue week in year one, offer it sell it to them for $1 and stay that week for life.

I don't care about entrepreneurs who have spun off businesses owning impressive timeshare portfolios. Congrats to those who are successful. You deserve whatever profits come your way. You took the risk.

But please, don't come to the rest of us when your house of cards is crumbling. We are not TARP v2.0

Which is basically the reason an HOA could/should set something like this up. It gives them an easier way to sell that blue week to a guest (on check-in pamphlet, low pressure, etc).

Ultimately, if all weeks have the same MF, once the MF exceeds the value of the blue weeks by a significant amount, all or some of them will stop paying. When the rest of the weeks have to pick up the slack, more stop paying, and if nothing is done the resort can enter a death spiral of hire fees causing more defaults which require higher fees.

I'm not suggesting Ron's industry wide Viking ship, more of a localized plan for individual HOAs, where they could convert fixed weeks to floating interests using a trust. Makes it more flexible for everyone and equalizes fees to value received (FOR THOSE WHO ENTER THE TRUST).

 

[Beefnot]

The trust is the buyer of last resort. They will take all deeds. Some sellers will pay the trust to to get out (blue week sellers) and some the trust will pay (red week sellers)

This is nothing but an honest and ethical PCC set up to take timeshares and put them to use instead of abandoning them

Ok, I'm starting to grasp it.

 

[strandlover]

Which is basically the reason an HOA could/should set something like this up. It gives them an easier way to sell that blue week to a guest (on check-in pamphlet, low pressure, etc).

Ultimately, if all weeks have the same MF, once the MF exceeds the value of the blue weeks by a significant amount, all or some of them will stop paying. When the rest of the weeks have to pick up the slack, more stop paying, and if nothing is done the resort can enter a death spiral of hire fees causing more defaults which require higher fees.

I'm not suggesting Ron's industry wide Viking ship, more of a localized plan for individual HOAs, where they could convert fixed weeks to floating interests using a trust. Makes it more flexible for everyone and equalizes fees to value received (FOR THOSE WHO ENTER THE TRUST).

OK, noted. Now please convince me why I would give up a red week at our home resort for the benefit of me and for this trust.

 

[ampaholic]

Which is basically the reason an HOA could/should set something like this up. It gives them an easier way to sell that blue week to a guest (on check-in pamphlet, low pressure, etc).

Ultimately, if all weeks have the same MF, once the MF exceeds the value of the blue weeks by a significant amount, all or some of them will stop paying. When the rest of the weeks have to pick up the slack, more stop paying, and if nothing is done the resort can enter a death spiral of hire fees causing more defaults which require higher fees.

I'm not suggesting Ron's industry wide Viking ship, more of a localized plan for individual HOAs, where they could convert fixed weeks to floating interests using a trust. Makes it more flexible for everyone and equalizes fees to value received (FOR THOSE WHO ENTER THE TRUST).

So on a local one resort level would the person who bails and deeds their interval to this local trust be "done" with the resort?

I think with VSVT Ron envisions they would still be able to pay and use (rent?) if they wanted to?

The trust (whether local or national or worldwide) wouldn't want to just take in interval ownerships without developing a solid usage paradigm as well.

 

[Beefnot]

Ultimately, if all weeks have the same MF, once the MF exceeds the value of the blue weeks by a significant amount, all or some of them will stop paying. When the rest of the weeks have to pick up the slack, more stop paying, and if nothing is done the resort can enter a death spiral of hire fees causing more defaults which require higher fees.

One can rent Marriott/Westin 2-BR gold summer Palm Springs or Scottsdale weeks from II on getaway for sub-$500, when the MFs are $1200-1600. Is this differential the cause or the result?

 

[Beefnot]

OK, noted. Now please convince me why I would give up a red week at our home resort for the benefit of me and for this trust.

If you need to be convinced, then you are probably not the target consumer.

 

[Ridewithme38]

OK, noted. Now please convince me why I would give up a red week at our home resort for the benefit of me and for this trust.

What is the percentage of bad debt at your resort? Some places are upwards of 17%, these are owners defaulting on their MF's...Lets assume 10%, those owners are able to deed into this trust instead of defaulting and the HOA is able to use the rentals from it, this lowers you MF's by 10%, could be a $200 savings a year it also gives you the opportunity to travel during any week that is available in the trust, which within a short time, will be EVERY week

This doesn't bring into account the cash bonus or bonus weeks made available to you FOR giving that Shoulder/Red week(are you talking about Massanutten?) to the Trust

So you will have True Red weeks to use, Bonus time every year, a cash payment in your pocket AND your MF's will be reduced

 

[ampaholic]

OK, noted. Now please convince me why I would give up a red week at our home resort for the benefit of me and for this trust.

It dosn't have to be you who sells it could be me.

At one resort (Door county WI - a VERY popular place) I own the reddest week you can have (a summer Platinum) - I would sell it for $1500.
(about 3 years MF).

You could sell or not sell - meh :zzz:

 

[ronparise]

OK, noted. Now please convince me why I would give up a red week at our home resort for the benefit of me and for this trust.

You just got run over by a bus. and your estate attorney is cleaning things up

Your ex wife loves the red week, so do you but out of spite you sell it

You lost your job

Your 25 year old gilrfriend wants her own condo at the beach, not a timeshare

People sell good stuff all the time...you dont have to give anything up , but if you want to sell we are buying

 

[strandlover]

What is the percentage of bad debt at your resort? Some places are upwards of 17%, these are owners defaulting on their MF's...Lets assume 10%, those owners are able to deed into this trust instead of defaulting and the HOA is able to use the rentals from it, this lowers you MF's by 10%, could be a $200 savings a year it also gives you the opportunity to travel during any week that is available in the trust, which within a short time, will be EVERY week

This doesn't bring into account the cash bonus or bonus weeks made available to you FOR giving that Shoulder/Red week(are you talking about Massanutten?) to the Trust

So you will have True Red weeks to use, Bonus time every year, a cash payment in your pocket AND your MF's will be reduced

I don't know the exact bad debt off the top of my head, likely OK based on the increases of MF being less than inflation rate.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I don't know the exact bad debt off the top of my head, likely OK based on the increases of MF being less than inflation rate.

Be careful, there are alot of just dangerously uneducated people that work with HOA/POA/BOD's and also lots of dangerously careless people and of course those intentionally dishonest...they COULD be holding down MF's by taking from the Reserve Fund...This is how HUGE special Assessments tend to show their faces

I bet you'll be ready to put your Red week in a Trust when you get a $3500 Special Assessment!

 

[strandlover]

You just got run over by a bus. and your estate attorney is cleaning things up

Your ex wife loves the red week, so do you but out of spite you sell it

You lost your job

Your 25 year old gilrfriend wants her own condo at the beach, not a timeshare

People sell good stuff all the time...you dont have to give anything up , but if you want to sell we are buying

I am trying to understand the value propostion of giving up a red week at my home resort trust, not a viking ship, it's full of holes and has no investors.

If any of your scenarios would happen to me, I will give them away on TUG. Why do I need a trust?

 

[strandlover]

I bet you'll be ready to put your Red week in a Trust when you get a $3500 Special Assessment!

Like I said in a previous post: show me the value proposition. What's your offer to me: $3,500 SA coming next year? <hear the crickets?>

If this were the case, you would not take it and I would be stuck with it. C'est la vie.

 

[timeos2]

OK, noted. Now please convince me why I would give up a red week at our home resort for the benefit of me and for this trust.

You may not want to today but things change and on a year or 5 or 10 you may see it as the best or quickest way out. Proof os today there are owners who pay thousands to get rid of ownerships that can be sold for thousands! They don't know or just want out.

 

[strandlover]

You may not want to today but things change and on a year or 5 or 10 you may see it as the best or quickest way out. Proof os today there are owners who pay thousands to get rid of ownerships that can be sold for thousands! They don't know or just want out.

Fascinating discussion and I have learned alot, thank you. TUG is the best tuition (for $15) anywhere! That's what I call a value proposition!

Agreed that things may change now or in the future and I would possibility need an out from these timeshares. What you are suggesting is another form of a PCC. So what?

If I am an uninformed owner in distress today or 10 years from now, I will give my red weeks + a fee to a PCC. If I am an informed owner in distress (and read TUG posts), I will give my red weeks away.

From where I sit, the solution is in educating people, making sure that all stakeholders are informed and HOAs also evolve for the greater good of the resort and its owners. Each resort will have its' own solution. Will take years, one resort at a time.

While all this good, hard work gets done, sadly, unscrupulous developers continue to pump out blue weeks for $10-$20K and the problem will resurface.

 

[am1]

This is a good question that i'm not sure how will end up working out...Heck, we have dozens of members on Tug that had previously donated their time to serve on a HOA/POA/BOD, so we know people here like to help for free...maybe for a membership to the Trust/Vacation Club, they will be willing to donate time to us, Maybe one member per system calling in 30-50 reservations at a time? Can you make that many reservations over one phone call with systems like Sheraton when all the deeds are in the same trust/vacation club name?

I will volunteer to manage the Wyndham side of the club. I'll take a few cents per point when booking reservations for owners and 30% off the top of the rental prices. Yes we will rent out prime weeks to the public.

 

[Ridewithme38]

If I am an uninformed owner in distress today or 10 years from now, I will give my red weeks + a fee to a PCC. If I am an informed owner in distress (and read TUG posts), I will give my red weeks away.

I think you are being VERY optimistic if you think you will be able to give away your week when you need to...

 

[strandlover]

I think you are being VERY optimistic if you think you will be able to give away your week when you need to...

Perhaps, but I will have a one-year MF billing cycle to figure it out.