How to help my sister in law?

[ada903]

Over time I came to tuggers on this lounge forum as a great place to find advice on crazy things, anywhere from routers and coffee filters to matters of the heart and soul. I am always impressed with the diversity of approaches and expertise that you guys have, and I thank you in advance for all the help.

Here is my latest dilemma. I would love to be able to give proper advice/help my sister in law. She has been married for over 30 years, 3 kids are grown and out of the house, and for many many years she has been quietly putting up with something none of us knew that her husband does. She finally came out and told the family.

Her husband is literally crazy - he is obsessed and convinced that she is cheating big time - with multiple partners - and has been controlling/monitoring/terrorizing her for years. He imagines things - sees odd hairs in the bath tub, or argues someone (her lover) wore his underwear! He hides recorders in the house, her car, calls her obsessively, shows up at the house or her work unexpectedly, questions her every move. He imagines wild wild things, for example he is convinced that she has lovers that come to his house regularly in the morning when she wakes up and before she gets to work, and that those men use his things, shower, etc. - and he has shown up from work unexpectedly over and over and over in those early hours, to "catch" her.

Now you need to understand, my sister in law is this incredible simple woman, beautiful generous heart, an amazing Christian, who has been silently suffering and putting up with this - and even now her heart breaks not because she is unhappy, but because he is so tormented and she feels bad for him! He is angry all the time and treats her like a prostitute, literally, because he strongly believes she is cheating all day long.

They went to semi-professional counseling (a lady at their church who is also a counselor), but it did not work out. He does not admit he has a problem. In addition, he abuses alcohol daily - mixes 3-6 beers and wine daily, so that doesn't help.

I am trying to understand: when someone is so far broken apart from reality that he imagines things and believes them strongly, what condition is this? Some kind of mental illness like schizophrenia? Where does she go for help from here? Can he be ever cured?

We want to help direct her somewhere to get help, but where?

 

[loafingcactus]

If she wants to leave she will, if she doesn't she won't. You can't make it happen. Also, the more you listen the more you "let out the steam" which contributes to the situation continuing through several different pathways (another being that listening without doing anything makes it seem more rather than less normal). "If you want to leave I will help you, but otherwise we won't be talking about it.". You can also call the police yourself if you have an evidence of abuse, but unfortunately that can increase the danger if she won't go.

Meanwhile, you can help make a plan that will help her when she is ready to go, because when she leaves he very well might kill someone, so she needs to disappear and you and your family and her children need to be ready with your own security plan. You can talk to your local women's center and see what you need to do to make that happen. Different states offer different levels of help, but there are groups ready with hotel rooms and resources.

Where I'm coming from: I was involved in church social services and this was the advice we were given by the social councilors (especially about not facilitating by being a listener), and my husband at the time was involved with a group that would come in with a truck while the guy was at work and make the woman and her belongings disappear.

Eta: From a Christian perspective, she's putting him in danger by letting him sin against her and being in danger of him killing her. In my opinion, leaving is ESPECIALLY the right thing for a Christian wife to do.

 

[CarolF]

It is domestic violence. A counsellor specialising in that area might help her understand her options. I'm not familiar with your laws but suspect such violence would be as illegal there as it is here.

 

[vacationhopeful]

loafingcactus has expressed this very clearly. LISTENING, even passively, is allowing her to rationize and justify his behavior. She can only CHANGE herself.

Making an issue of HIS mental illness will cause HIM or his lawyer to ask her for support payments, as HE is ill. And his alcoholic behavior is also an illness .... hence, support payments from her. And his mental illness might just be delusional alcoholism.

How much does she drink? Most longterm partners are also drinkers. If you think (or say to yourself, she knows her limit) she doesn't drink, chances (and percentages in studies) are you are grossly wrong.

I again state, loafingcactus has the best approach.

 

[Big Matt]

I would ask her if this pattern has been increasing or getting weirder over time. If so, I think she's in a lot of danger. Things like this often end up in violence, murder/suicide, etc.

I don't want to freak you out, but this stuff is real and the patterns are obvious here.

If I were her, I would get in touch with someone she can trust to find out how she can protect herself (from him).

 

[ada903]

She does not drink - not regularly. Once in a blue moon she will have a half a glass of wine at dinner. I know that for a fact. He tried to convince her to drink, but she doesn't like it.

It's a common situation in the family where she comes from (Romanians!) that the men abuse alcohol but women don't.

 

[ada903]

Things have been bad since the early 90's, but have gotten worse in the past few years since the kids moved out.

She can't move anywhere where he would not find her, the whole family is here - kids, parents, brothers and sisters.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

I am providing this link to bolster the other opinions.

To me, if she has covered this up for years and is just now talking about it, it is because she is ready to leave, but needs someone to validate her decision. She needs an exit plan and then she needs to implement it.

Is she able to support herself? Does he make enough money that he can pay enough spousal support that she can live? Do they have children? How old are they?

One of the first things that she will need to do is find employment if she is not currently employed. And her reasoning to him is that he should be reassured that she is working and therefore does not have available time for him to worry about.

This is not about him. It is about her. She has no power to change his behavior. If he has been doing this for years, he will not exercise his power to change his behavior. So it is up to her to change her own behavior --- and her only option is to leave and leave safely.

When I was a younger attorney and did a substantial amount of family cases, I had 2 different clients killed when they had these types of partners. One of the decedents was a man. That is when I found the article that I saw published in Ann Landers and I have kept a copy at my office for counseling people for years.

elaine

 

[ada903]

She has a full time job at the local bank, and with the cost of living here, she would be just fine on her own. The kids are grown up and independent, two of them are married and one is out of the house on her own.

This is a scary situation - what if I push her to leave him and he hurts her, I will feel guilty. But what if she sticks with him and he still hurts her - same thing.

Just so you know, I am sending this link to my sister in law to read, to her work email, that her husband does not have access to. She needs to hear more opinions and start thinking about what she can do to help the situation. Thank you all again for the quick replies.

 

[tashamen]

Her husband is literally crazy - he is obsessed and convinced that she is cheating big time - with multiple partners - and has been controlling/monitoring/terrorizing her for years. He imagines things - sees odd hairs in the bath tub, or argues someone (her lover) wore his underwear! He hides recorders in the house, her car, calls her obsessively, shows up at the house or her work unexpectedly, questions her every move. He imagines wild wild things, for example he is convinced that she has lovers that come to his house regularly in the morning when she wakes up and before she gets to work, and that those men use his things, shower, etc. - and he has shown up from work unexpectedly over and over and over in those early hours, to "catch" her.

This sounds like it could be a serious medical problem of mental illness (as another poster already suggested). Some of these symptoms sound like they could be paranoid schizophrenia - please note I am not a medical professional, but am remembering some of the similar patterns of delusions that a close member of my family had. The only treatments (at the time) were medication and/or hospitalization. This is not something that a wife can help her husband with - he needs professional help. There should be some kind of hospital or social services outreach that she can talk to to better understand the problem and HER options, including legal ones, if he won't agree to treatment.

My heart goes out to all of you.

 

[siesta]

Maybe he is the one cheating, typically when someone is obsessive over something like that it may be because they are feeling guilty themselves. Or hes just crazy....

 

[Pat H]

How much does she drink? Most longterm partners are also drinkers. If you think (or say to yourself, she knows her limit) she doesn't drink, chances (and percentages in studies) are you are grossly wrong.

QUOTE]

Most long term partners are NOT also drinkers. It's quite the opposite. They are the people pleasers/enablers who always say everything is "fine". I can't post the definition of fine here. She should go to Al-Anon. Her husband is an alcoholic. Al-Anon is for the person affected by the alcoholic. It's not about the alcoholic. It's not an easy or quick fix but it does work. The most important thing is your SIL's safety. If the erratic behavior is escalating, she could be in extreme danger.

 

[tlwmkw]

This sounds like a dangerous situation brewing. He needs help but she is too close to the situation to get him to go for help. She needs to plan and execute an exit and remove herself from the equation. Maybe then he'll see the light. If he is becoming so jealous and out of touch then he could become violent and then she is in real trouble. I would encourage her to leave.

tlwmkw

 

[BevL]

Probably a fine point but I personally wouldn't encourage her to leave. I think the advice earlier to completely reassure her that, "If you make the decision to leave, I will do everything in my power to help you," is a good one. You can't be responsible for the decision.

It also makes a lot of sense to me that there must be a viable exit plan before she leaves, unless the situation escalates such that she literally has to flee. Frankly, it sounds like it might be escalating to that situation.

I'm no expert, but if it were me, I personally would be trying to research her options for safe shelter and so forth so that if she makes the decision, you can assist her to hit the ground running, as it were.

My heart goes out to her. It has probably taken a tremendous amount of courage for her to open up about this situation - now it will take more for her to remove herself from it.

 

[Tia]

Exactly my thoughts after reading the original post! She or you can maybe find a local domestic violence shelter then stop by to get literature or call to talk to someone. I did this for a neighbor 5 years ago, it was shocking what had been going on once she started to open up. He was accusing her of things he was actually doing.

It is domestic violence. A counsellor specialising in that area might help her understand her options. I'm not familiar with your laws but suspect such violence would be as illegal there as it is here.

 

[Kay H]

Your sil is in a very dangerous situation. She has to think of her own safety. Her husband is very ill and she has to look out for her self. She may be in grave danger. You got some good advice here but you can only help her follow through on the decision she makes. Hopefully she will get REAL professional help.

 

[ronparise]

When I was raising my kids I always took the attitude: expect the best you will probably get it...I also believe the flip side is true..expect the worst and thats what you will get

So at the risk of appearing an insensitive pig (and I really dont want to make light of her situation) but this would seem to be the perfect opportunity to start seeing other men.

Thats one choice I see; another is to get out, and get out now.

And the third choice as I see it is to treat this guy as if he was sick. She wouldnt leave her husband or take a lover if he had cancer, or if he developed alzheimers; she would probably stick with him and care for him. If she truly does see what he is doing as a sickness, I dont think any of our advice will help...she will stick by him

 

[Beaglemom3]

Is there any way that she can speak to his primary care physician ?

I am acutely aware of privacy issues (still retain my NP status), but this should be at least considered. The PCP may/may not be receptive, but he or she may be concerned as well and may be able to just listen to your SIL without violating his privacy. I've seen it done when I was in practice.

You are among friends here.

 

[Timeshare Von]

If he is actually mentally ill, can't he be involuntarily committed for psychiatric evaluation/treatment?

 

[scrapngen]

When I was raising my kids I always took the attitude: expect the best you will probably get it...I also believe the flip side is true..expect the worst and thats what you will get

So at the risk of appearing an insensitive pig (and I really dont want to make light of her situation) but this would seem to be the perfect opportunity to start seeing other men.

Thats one choice I see; another is to get out, and get out now.

And the third choice as I see it is to treat this guy as if he was sick. She wouldnt leave her husband or take a lover if he had cancer, or if he developed alzheimers; she would probably stick with him and care for him. If she truly does see what he is doing as a sickness, I dont think any of our advice will help...she will stick by him

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are actually advising the woman to escalate a dangerous situation by seeking out another man????? Let's get two people in danger, not just one....:annoyed:

PLEASE, OP, whatever you do, do not suggest this to your SIL, unless you truly do not care for her.

BTW, To me, this doesn't make you, Ron, appear "an insensitive pig" but certainly makes one question your advice or understanding of a volatile situation. (a huge understatement here)

 

[puppymommo]

If he is actually mentally ill, can't he be involuntarily committed for psychiatric evaluation/treatment?

I think this is a state by state thing but generally this is not possible unless a person has been shown to be a danger to self or others.

In this case the husband may well be a danger to others, his wife in particular. But it takes time to get something like this in place. Probably better left until she is in a safe place.

Another possible source of support is the local chapter of NAMI -- National Alliance for Mental Illness. They have resources and support for families of those with mental illnesses.

 

[Passepartout]

I would advise this woman to depart this abusive relationship. There are shelters for battered and abused women in any community of any size. Restraining orders will keep her husband away from her- and if he stalks or tries to contact her he will face consequences.

She is exhibiting behavior all too common among abusive relationships. He has convinced her that she has no value, that somehow she is responsible for his behavior. Women in this type relationship actually believe their spouse.

My heart goes out to the woman described here. I hope she can find the courage to talk to her sister, children, minister, go for counseling, possibly a divorce attorney, and lay the groundwork for getting a life of her own, not as a co-dependent.

All the best to her.

Jim Ricks

 

[pjrose]

Yes, it could be schizophrenia or another serious mental illness.

I think an exit plan is a good idea, but I also would suggest that she try to get him into counseling, preferably with someone who can do a full evaluation and prescribe meds. I'm with scrapngen that she wouldn't leave her husband if he developed some other kind of illness. Help for him will be help for her too.

If they went to counseling at church, then perhaps he would be willing to accompany her to counseling with a psychologist, or if possible a psychiatrist who does counseling (those are rare these days). She should frame it that it is for HER, for THEIR marriage problems. She should see the counselor a time or two first, to give some background - that is, if she can get to a counselor without her husband thinking she's off cheating.

If counseling and meds don't work (or if he won't accept them), then leave, go somewhere where he can't find her (she'd have to change her job). Then contact him from afar that he must seek help and get stabilized for any possibility of further contact.

 

[scrapngen]

Yes, it could be schizophrenia or another serious mental illness.

I think an exit plan is a good idea, but I also would suggest that she try to get him into counseling, preferably with someone who can do a full evaluation and prescribe meds. I'm with scrapngen that she wouldn't leave her husband if he developed some other kind of illness. Help for him will be help for her too.

If they went to counseling at church, then perhaps he would be willing to accompany her to counseling with a psychologist, or if possible a psychiatrist who does counseling (those are rare these days). She should frame it that it is for HER, for THEIR marriage problems. She should see the counselor a time or two first, to give some background - that is, if she can get to a counselor without her husband thinking she's off cheating.

If counseling and meds don't work (or if he won't accept them), then leave, go somewhere where he can't find her (she'd have to change her job). Then contact him from afar that he must seek help and get stabilized for any possibility of further contact.

Just for clarity, pj :
Actually, Ron Parise said that about not leaving if it was another kind of illness.

Personally, I (scrappy) believe in marriage as a committed union of two people, and while I think it is "in sickness and in health" I do NOT believe that one should feel obligated to stay if anyone's welfare is at risk. This holds especially true for cases where it is a child being abused, IMO. (not that this applies here)

I hope they are looking into shelters and counseling for domestic violence/abuse in this case. According to the post, the alcohol has only made the behaviors worse - they were already there earlier. To me, this is not so much a medical problem as an abuse issue, IMHO, but I am not a doctor or pyschologist. The OP can be there with useful information when/if the woman is willing to seek help, but as many have said, it will have to be her decision.

 

[stugy]

Here is my retired social worker opinion. This man is most definitely mentally ill, probably paranoid, possibly schizophrenic. He will not understand any attemps to help him by suggesting counseling. He does not think he is sick. He may well be hearing voices that incite his delusions.
I believe your sister-in-law probably is in danger because he really believes that she is cheating oh him. We have no way of knowing what the voices are telling him. I believe she should go to a shelter and also contact her local mental health clinic. They will advise her how to get him evaluated safely.
Paranoid personality or paranoid schizophrenia have the worst prognosis. Perhaps because the inflicted refuse to take meds because they don't think they need them or because they are suspicious of what the meds are, etc. You may need to take her by the hand and lead her to help.
This has nothing to do with their religious belief system. Also church counselors are not able to help with this serious illness. He needs psychiatric help and she needs a safe environment.
Pat