Best quality trader purchase in timeshares today IMO is ....

[ondeadlin]

True, but an 1880 points would get you into almost any Hyatt resort at any time of the year. Probably at least a 1br, and likely even a studio at Carmel (think costliest resort). 1300 points REALLY limits you.

Actually, Carmel doesn't have studios, and a 1BR at Carmel, high season, would be 2200 points. That's the problem with Carmel -- when they adjusted the points "cost" a Carmel 1BR now costs the same as a 2BR anywhere else.

But I certainly agree with your general point - a 1300 point week limits you for internal Hyatt trading. The best use for a 1300 point week within Hyatt would probably be for a 4-night midweek stay during Diamond season (IMO).

 

[heathpack]

The nice thing about HGVC for external trading is that for RCI, you get Hilton's corporate trading power, and a special point schedule with which you can reserve either points (nights) or weeks, without depositing anything in advance. Also, you can do it all online thru a dedicated RCI portal. Its almost "hotel" like.

Downside: No access to II unless at an 'outside' resort which is a mere affiliate of HGVC.
Also, you don't get your own personal RCI account.

So how many individual RCI days can you book off 1 week's MF?

H

 

[heathpack]

A big thing to understand about Hyatt is that all you are REALY buying is a specific week in a specific unit at a specific resort. Everything else is an overlay and can be taken away at any time. You have NO rights to anything but your deeded week.

So to me this means you should buy a week, unit, resort that you would actually be happy with staying in 1 week per year.

Personally, if I were looking to buy now (and I always sort of am), I'd much rather buy a diamond or platinum week if I could get a blazing deal. My problem is I would have trouble using all the weeks I'd be able to obtain trading, it's hard to justify additional expense.

H

 

[ondeadlin]

A big thing to understand about Hyatt is that all you are REALY buying is a specific week in a specific unit at a specific resort. Everything else is an overlay and can be taken away at any time. You have NO rights to anything but your deeded week.

Yeah, but you can say that any time you're talking about buying a trader ... or about buying into Marriott points ... or Hilton, etc.

 

[heathpack]

Not really. We also own Disney points. With Disney are actually buying points, there is no week or unit to consider. The only reason to buy at a specific resort is because you get a booking advantage at your home resort. If you are coming from the Disney system, you could think that you are literally buying points with Hyatt. You are not, they are an artificial construct.


There are many people in the Hyatt world who will argue points are points, the underlying week does not matter- if you have enough points to book what you want it does not matter what week/resort/unit you own. I have even basically been told I was a fool by a Hyatt broker for asking what week one of his listings was. I tried to get a TUGGER who was selling a week to tell me the unit, he simply could not understand why I wanted to know and after 3 requests in which he would not provide me the information, I finally told him just forget it.

In Marriott-world, people know there is a difference between oceanfront or island view units, between week 52 and week 42, between Branson and Aruba because they trade differently. In Hyatt-world, people think there is no difference, but when HVC erodes the value of your points over time, you really want your deed to be something you find valuable. Even though Hyatt brokers and sellers will try to convince you otherwise.

H

 

[janej]

Thanks a lot for the reminder. It is so true. I bought Wyndham points just for trading in II. In 2-3 years, they changed the system dramatically. A quiet studio used to be 28k points, now it is 74k points. I wonder how stable is the HVC system. Is there a HVC primer online? At least with Wyndham, I did not pay much upfront and my MF is on the low end. I am sure I could easily give away my deed. I need to do more homework on HGV.

I guess with a real week in a real resort, I have to be able to rent the week for more than the MF for the ownership to have any value. With DVC, I can get twice the MF without much trouble at all. How about Hyatt?

Not really. We also own Disney points. With Disney are actually buying points, there is no week or unit to consider. The only reason to buy at a specific resort is because you get a booking advantage at your home resort. If you are coming from the Disney system, you could think that you are literally buying points with Hyatt. You are not, they are an artificial construct.


There are many people in the Hyatt world who will argue points are points, the underlying week does not matter- if you have enough points to book what you want it does not matter what week/resort/unit you own. I have even basically been told I was a fool by a Hyatt broker for asking what week one of his listings was. I tried to get a TUGGER who was selling a week to tell me the unit, he simply could not understand why I wanted to know and after 3 requests in which he would not provide me the information, I finally told him just forget it.

In Marriott-world, people know there is a difference between oceanfront or island view units, between week 52 and week 42, between Branson and Aruba because they trade differently. In Hyatt-world, people think there is no difference, but when HVC erodes the value of your points over time, you really want your deed to be something you find valuable. Even though Hyatt brokers and sellers will try to convince you otherwise.

H

 

[ondeadlin]

Not really. We also own Disney points.

Remember, I said "when you're buying a trader" or Hilton or Marriott. Trading is really what this thread is about. Nobody buys DVC to trade - the value is in use.

In Hyatt-world, people think there is no difference, but when HVC erodes the value of your points over time, you really want your deed to be something you find valuable. Even though Hyatt brokers and sellers will try to convince you otherwise.
H

In Hyatt-world, there really is no difference right now.

You are absolutely correct that could change. Obviously a ton has changed in timeshares in the last five years. It changed in Hyatt when they changed the point values for Carmel (although the backlash to that was quite significant and probably makes Hyatt hesitant to do it again with an existing resort).

And if I had to shell out the kind of money it takes to buy into DVC, I'd probably be a lot more concerned about that uncertainty.

But at $3000 or less for a top II trader, I'd shrug and take my chances.

 

[heathpack]

In Hyatt-world there will always be a difference between weeks, your owned week is your fallback position. But the reason I think it matters way more than you do is because I am arguing that one should buy a more expensive week. When you spend more on your fallback position, you are less ok with just giving it away after a few years.

I'd be willing to modify my recommendation as follows: with Hyatt, the more you spend on your week, the more concerned you should be about the week, unit, resort. How's that?

However, I still would no way buy a Hyatt week, season, unit I did not like.

As far as DVC goes, I have similar cash outlays in both systems. The difference with Disney is that I only really a studio long weekend at the Grand Californian once a year, plus a studio week every 3rd year back East. The nice thing about Disney, though, is you can slice you ownership into these little bits and you only pay MF on the little bits.

I am WAY less concerned about my Disney points losing value because I bought pretty much exactly what I will use. My Hyatt, well I bought a week that sort of works for me but is not ideal, a unit that's not exactly where I wish it would be, and at a resort that has only 2BR units when I don't need anything bigger than a 1BR. I bought it thinking I'd spend my Hyatt time occasionally at my home resort in Tahoe, more frequently in Carmel and Sedona. But then Hyatt yanked the Carmel option off the table, and I decided I would learn how to trade the heck out of the thing. That has been a great experience and has opened up many more possibilities than I'd have in Hyatt, things that are every bit as nice. So I have no complaints (well, just the one complaint: the Highlands Inn points change), it's working really well.

H

Remember, I said "when you're buying a trader." That's what this thread is really about. Nobody buys DVC to trade - the value is in use.



In Hyatt-world, there really is no difference right now.

You are absolutely correct that could change. Obviously a ton has changed in timeshares in the last five years. It changed in Hyatt when they changed the point values for Carmel (although the backlash to that was quite significant and probably makes Hyatt hesitant to do it again with an existing resort).

And if I had to shell out the kind of money it takes to buy into DVC, I'd probably be a lot more concerned about that uncertainty.

But at $3000 or less for a top II trader, I'd shrug and take my chances.

 

[heathpack]

The Hyatt system is somewhat stable. Last year, however, they doubled the points requirements to stay at one of their resorts, Hyatt Highlands Inn. This means that to book a 1BR unit, the smallest they have at that resort, you need to spend points equivalent to a 2BR unit elsewhere. Additionally, Highlands Inns only has 3 seasons, nothing lower than gold season. So this effectively means that any Hyatt owner who owns a 1BR unit elsewhere or who owns a 2BR in a bronze or lower season, all of those owners are now locked out from ever staying at HI. It also defies logic that HVC did this, HI is nice but no nicer than other Hyatts. It was really an outrage, fundamentally undermines what the entire system is about. What makes it even worse is that these HI 1BR units, which trade internally in the HVC system as 2BR units, trade in II as 1BR units. So Interval exchangers have access to weeks that many Hyatt owners cannot get. That will give you an idea of how well you could expect HVC to look after your interests.

So that is my take on HVC, don't trust them farther than you can shake a stick. Expect them to erode your purchase value to nothing. However, the thing is an absolutely blazing trader. Wicked flexible, you get tons of value from it, really nice exchanges and a lot of em. Only you can decide if it's worth the risk of your purchase price, if you can stomach whatever the next thing is that HVC has up it's sleeve.

H

Thanks a lot for the reminder. It is so true. I bought Wyndham points just for trading in II. In 2-3 years, they changed the system dramatically. A quiet studio used to be 28k points, now it is 74k points. I wonder how stable is the HVC system. Is there a HVC primer online? At least with Wyndham, I did not pay much upfront and my MF is on the low end. I am sure I could easily give away my deed. I need to do more homework on HGV.

I guess with a real week in a real resort, I have to be able to rent the week for more than the MF for the ownership to have any value. With DVC, I can get twice the MF without much trouble at all. How about Hyatt?

 

[Talent312]

So how many individual RCI days can you book off 1 week's MF? [In the HGVC system]

Let's say you have a fairly typical 5000 HGVC points per year package (a 2BR gold season unit) that runs you about $900 in MF (it depends on the resort). That could score you 9 days in a 2BR red season (or 12 days in a 1BR red season), and you'd have a few leftover to convert to HHonors. So, say about $100/Night.

At HGVC"affiliated" resorts (as opposed to a "true" HGVC-developed resort), an owner may choose each year to use or deposit their units outside of the HGVC system and score whatever they can score on their own.

 

[ondeadlin]

I'd be willing to modify my recommendation as follows: with Hyatt, the more you spend on your week, the more concerned you should be about the week, unit, resort. How's that?
H

So that is my take on HVC, don't trust them farther than you can shake a stick. Expect them to erode your purchase value to nothing. However, the thing is an absolutely blazing trader. Wicked flexible, you get tons of value from it, really nice exchanges and a lot of em. Only you can decide if it's worth the risk of your purchase price[.]

I think we've found common ground. Enjoyed reading your viewpoint on it all.

 

[ondeadlin]

Let's say you have a fairly typical 5000 HGVC points per year package (a 2BR gold season unit) that runs you about $900 in MF (it depends on the resort). That could score you 9 days in a 2BR red season (or 12 days in a 1BR red season), and you'd have a few leftover to convert to HHonors. So, say about $100/Night.

At HGVC"affiliated" resorts (as opposed to a "true" HGVC-developed resort), an owner may choose each year to use or deposit their units outside of the HGVC system and score whatever they can score on their own.

Just to be clear - since I think sometimes newbys can get confused between the two systems - the bulk of this thread is about the HYATT vacation club, all references to HGVC concern the HILTON system.

 

[janej]

Confused

I started watching Hyatt listings on ebay and got confused. For example, there is a one bedroom EOY listing at the Hyatt Pinon Pointe with MF of $1222.8 for 1240 points. There there is a 2 bedroom Gold week same resort same week with MF of only $805.98 for 1880 points.

How could it be? Is one of them wrong?

 

[heathpack]

I started watching Hyatt listings on ebay and got confused. For example, there is a one bedroom EOY listing at the Hyatt Pinon Pointe with MF of $1222.8 for 1240 points. There there is a 2 bedroom Gold week same resort same week with MF of only $805.98 for 1880 points.

How could it be? Is one of them wrong?

Yes, one of them is wrong.

H

 

[janej]

Thanks, I guess ebay listings are not the best place to find maintenance fee information.

Can I find maintenance fees for all Haytt resorts online somewhere?

 

[heathpack]

Thanks, I guess ebay listings are not the best place to find maintenance fee information.

Can I find maintenance fees for all Haytt resorts online somewhere?

Not that I am aware of. If you find the MF, please let me know.

 

[janej]

I have not found a site with MF information. But I found a very helpful site http://www.bywindkal.com/HVC.htm

I did some research on TUG also by searching Hyatt. My main question is how the exchange with II works. It seems to be very different from how Wyndham points work in II. Can you search online with II? I read that HGVC does not allow unit size upgrade with II. Does it work like the shorter stay search where it automatically filter out larger unit. With Wyndham point, upgrade are allowed with online search. I just can't start a search request for larger unit.

Thanks a lot,

Jane

 

[heathpack]

I have not found a site with MF information. But I found a very helpful site http://www.bywindkal.com/HVC.htm

I did some research on TUG also by searching Hyatt. My main question is how the exchange with II works. It seems to be very different from how Wyndham points work in II. Can you search online with II? I read that HGVC does not allow unit size upgrade with II. Does it work like the shorter stay search where it automatically filter out larger unit. With Wyndham point, upgrade are allowed with online search. I just can't start a search request for larger unit.

Thanks a lot,

Jane

Hi Jane,

One comment- you have a few times referred to HGVC (which is Hilton Grand Vacation Club) when I think you mean HVC (Hyatt Vacation Club). So hopefully you are not in fact asking about HGVC because my answers below pertain to HVC.

Also, yes, Kal's website you mention above is a terrific source- not too much about exchanging Hyatt units but most of the other nuts and bolts of the program is there. I have been remiss in not directing you there sooner.

I don't have any idea how Wyndham works, so I can't compare directly. But I will tell you how Hyatt works in II.

Regardless of whether you have any HVC points deposited with II, you can perform searches in II. However, to set up an exchange request you have to actually have points deposited and once you put the points in II, you cannot take them out again, so there is no going back and using them in the Hyatt system at that point. Also, in the HVC system, you get access to your points one year before your deeded week. If you want to deposit points in II but you have not yet paid MF on them, you need to prepay the entire MF when you make the deposit. All Hyatt MF come due in Jan. So if your deeded week is say August, you would be getting your 2012 points now. If you are looking for say a Hilton Head Marriott next Aug, you would pay your 2012 MF now, deposit the appropriate number of points in II and set up an exchange request. If you just want to look online for instant exchanges you don't need to deposit points until you find something (but if you book, you will pay the MF in advance).

When you search instant exchanges with Hyatt, you tell the system what size unit you are looking for, always pick a 4 BR unit and it will show you your requested unit size and smaller units.

You can only search/request exchanges 12 months out in II.

You have until 4 months before your deeded week to deposit in II- in the above example if your deeded week started Aug 1, you would need to deposit your points in II by April 1. They are good for 2 years from the date you deposit. You can combine points from different years in II. So say you have 200 points leftover this year and you wait to deposit them in II April 1, 2012. They will be good until April 1 (maybe March 31, not totally sure), 2014. Then next year, you could plan on depositing another 230 points as soon as Aug 1, 2012. The points are all in the same pool and there is no fee to combine them. So now you can use the combined points from different years to book a studio. Nothing ever needs to go to waste.

The only filters that I am aware of are quality filters. You don't ever see some resorts that HVC decided are too low in quality, they don't want you coming back and complaining you got a bad trade. I don't really know what we are missing on this, it seems like most are ok with this, but one TUGGER in the past didn't like it because he was more about the location than the resort- he'd be fine with a bad resort in a good locale, and just wanted to see everything. You still see plenty, believe me, if I search all locations for one full year, I see hundreds and hundreds of dates, units, locations.

Let me know if this answers your questions.

S

 

[janej]

When you search instant exchanges with Hyatt, you tell the system what size unit you are looking for, always pick a 4 BR unit and it will show you your requested unit size and smaller units.

Thanks a lot for the explanation. I now understand better. I have two more questions.

When you put in ongoing search, how do you decide which season (Red/Green/Yellow) and what size (if you are somewhat flexible with size)? If you put in a request for a 1 bedroom and they only have a 2 bedroom available, will you just miss out? When I do ongoing search with II, I only request the minimal size acceptable. They might offer a bigger size if my unit is powerful enough, I won't have to pay more points. I understand you can't get upgrade with Hyatt, but it could be hard to know exactly how many points to put in for a search.

When I search online, I select the unit size I am willing to give up. It seems like with Hyatt, you select the unit size you want to trade for. If you put in 4 bedroom and found 2 bedroom, does the system then tell you how many point will be deducted from you account based on size and season? How could you get the FLEX time discount?

Jane

 

[heathpack]

When you put in an ongoing search, you have to have enough points deposited to fulfill the request, so I assume you would need to put in enough points for the most "expensive" unit in your search. I am not sure exactly how the mechanics of setting up a search with different unit sizes works, I think you would just list all the possible unit sizes and II would just book you into the first one that came available. You would only be charged the number of points you actually use for the reservation, so if you said you'd take a studio (430pts) or a 1BR (870 pts), then II booked you a studio, you'd only pay 430 pts and you'd have the rest left in your II account.

H

Thanks a lot for the explanation. I now understand better. I have two more questions.

When you put in ongoing search, how do you decide which season (Red/Green/Yellow) and what size (if you are somewhat flexible with size)? If you put in a request for a 1 bedroom and they only have a 2 bedroom available, will you just miss out? When I do ongoing search with II, I only request the minimal size acceptable. They might offer a bigger size if my unit is powerful enough, I won't have to pay more points. I understand you can't get upgrade with Hyatt, but it could be hard to know exactly how many points to put in for a search.

When I search online, I select the unit size I am willing to give up. It seems like with Hyatt, you select the unit size you want to trade for. If you put in 4 bedroom and found 2 bedroom, does the system then tell you how many point will be deducted from you account based on size and season? How could you get the FLEX time discount?

Jane

 

[heathpack]

There is no flextime discount in Hyatt. A unit costs the same amount no matter when you book it.

There is a chart published that tell you how many Hyatt points each unit will be based on season (and season is in turn based on TDI for the week in question- this is published in the II directory- for example, week 43 at resort abc has a TDI of 85). You then can look up how many Hyatt points you need to various size units if TDI is 85. It is all explicitly spelled out, easy to figure out, there are zero surprises.

Also, no discounts or upgrades in unit size.

H

 

[yumdrey]

Hi,
I got a chance to buy a Hyatt keywest, annual use, platinum week (2000 points) for under 6k includes all fees.
I did quick search on ebay previous sales and there were not many 2000 points sales.
Of course I wanted 2200 points (most points for MF), but sellers ask way too much for it, I couldn't find anyone accept lower than $10,000 so far.
I already have enough II traders, so I plan to use it in Hyatt system, and I need at least 1BR during school vacation season (2BR is better).
So comparing purchase price of 2200 (over 10K) and 2000 (6k), which one is better buy? Should I pay 4k more and buy 2200 points?

(according to heathpack, deeded resort and deeded week is important. Keywest (in spring) is where I want to stay in case point system doesn't work well)

 

[heathpack]

If you can get a Hyatt Key West 2000 points for under $6000, I would buy it for sure.

I can send you a Hyatt points chart if you want, then you can check for sure that you will have enough points for the school break weeks you want- I'm pretty sure that info is on Kal's website as well.

Of course I am sure you realize that even with internal trading you can't always get what you want in Hyatt. But in system, availability is generally pretty decent.

H

 

[chileaquiles]

Surprised by the SFX Exchange

As an owner of HVC Hyatt High Sierra Lodge I majority of the time change within HVC or II. But am truly amazed by your SFX comment.

I have never tried SFX and wanted to make sure I understand your comment correctly.

You can reserve a week within HVC (not being the week you own) and actually turn in that week into SFX and use it to trade within SFX?

I always assumed it had to be the actual week you owned and therefore it would take up all my 1880 points.

Does SFX take any and all Hyatt weeks or is there a limited number of resorts and timelines they take?

Does SFX allow you to trade up bedroom size? For example if I traded in a studio, can I exchange for a 1 or 2 bedroom if available? Or is it 1:1.

Within SFX is there a trading power level similar to II?

Always looking for more hyatt points and I was wondering if Hyatt allows you to combine HVC points from a resale with a direct buy?

 

[heathpack]

As an owner of HVC Hyatt High Sierra Lodge I majority of the time change within HVC or II. But am truly amazed by your SFX comment.

I have never tried SFX and wanted to make sure I understand your comment correctly.

You can reserve a week within HVC (not being the week you own) and actually turn in that week into SFX and use it to trade within SFX?

I always assumed it had to be the actual week you owned and therefore it would take up all my 1880 points.

Does SFX take any and all Hyatt weeks or is there a limited number of resorts and timelines they take?

Does SFX allow you to trade up bedroom size? For example if I traded in a studio, can I exchange for a 1 or 2 bedroom if available? Or is it 1:1.

Within SFX is there a trading power level similar to II?

Always looking for more hyatt points and I was wondering if Hyatt allows you to combine HVC points from a resale with a direct buy?

You do not have to deposit your owned week with SFX, you can book something through HVC and deposit that.

SFX does not just take any week. They officially only take 1BR or larger units and supposedly the best seasons. However, if you give them a prime week, so far I have found them willing to take a studio. Probably not a Dec Pinon Pointe, but diamond or platinum weeks, it seems like the answer is yes. Howeever, there is a Mountain Season Grand Aspen studio (a 70 pt reservation) in their inventory right now.

Right now (until today) there is a deposit special in which you deposit one week, get 2 one-bedroom bonus weeks (one for $400 and one for $500), plus a $500 credit that you can apply to various SFX fees including exchange fees, upgrade fees, and bonus weeks. That means you can basically get the bonus weeks for $350 and $400 respectively. But this special expires TODAY.

Yes, you can trade up in size with SFX. If you join at Platinum Level (about $100/yr) you get an automatic upgrade in size when available. Thus your studio gets you a 1BR automatically and you can pay $200 to upgrade to a 2BR (but you can use your cash card to get $100 off this upgrade).

SFX has less inventory than II but you can get some stuff that you can't just get in II. The Mayan resorts are available in abundance, some other great Mexican stuff. They have better NYC, London, and SF access than II. Some Hilton, Wyndham, and other mini-systems that you cant get in II. Not as much of the big chain stuff (Marriott, Starwood, Disney) as you get with II or RCI.

I think SFX is not an adequate substitute for II, you will get amazing value trading through II with a Hyatt. But SFX is a nice compliment for sure. They also seem like a smaller place where you can actually interact with a single person if you want.

Not sure about trade power, I have only traded for 1 thing- a 2BR Grand Mayan Los Cabos (used a Hyatt studio), but that was just sitting in the SFX inventory and is not hard to get through them.

PM me if you would like the name of the SFX rep that I use.

H