RCI Weeks to offer value transparency

[Carolinian]

True (and they've stated this from the start), but what they aren't saying is that the trading value will be used in the same way. Currently, it appears that there are trading power "bands" and you can exchange for anything within your band or any lesser bands. This allows for the possibility of a slight trade up. It's not clear that this will continue. In fact, it seems likely that it won't. Part of it will depend on how granular they make the visible trading powers.

What this means is that for a trade that is essentially like for like but the week you want costs a slight number of extra points, you will have to borrow those from another week and thus commit that one to RCI, too, or buy extras from RCI itself. This is what I find to be one of the biggest aggravations of an exact number system.

 

[Carolinian]

Most are just likely keeping their fingers crossed that RCI doesn't slam their resort / resort area / week with an unfair value. The time that people will get upset is when they seeing they have been hosed on value.

My educated guess is that based on the various threads about this subject is that the "transparency" you want so badly just isn't all that important to the vast majority of RCI members. They do want the ability to know what their week is worth and what the week(s) they want to trade into are valued at. If that is the case then RCI is making a positive move and most members seem to agree.

I don't think there is anything RCI could do that would bring you back to their side now. The timeshare world has changed, things have changed at RCI (for better or worse - there is some of both for certain) and even if the so-called "moles" that you like to base most all your assertions on were in fact correct those things happened 4-5 or more years ago. It's not the same world or RCI as even that small step back in time represents and it sure isn't the world of RCI when it was first founded. Today we have to deal with what we have and not try to go back to things that weren't all that good, but hold nostalgic appeal looked back on with a bit of rose colored lenses.

 

[Carolinian]

They don't need to be driven out of business, just driven to stop some of the customer ripoffs they engage in like the rentals of exchange deposits to non-members, something that you, incidentally, support.

The best response is not to go along with the latest downgrade of RCI's exchange operation, which has had way too many downgrades already. The best response is to find another trading system that can be trusted. For me that is DAE and SFX for now, perhaps adding HTSE at some point. In spite of RCI's warts, I had been giving them one week at a time, and lately one of my better weeks, but no more. I will still do their cheap rentals as long as my membership lasts.

No matter what RCI does, you won't be happy until they are driven out of business.

You want it granular, but if it's too granular, people will lose the ability to trade up. So you don't really want it granular. But when you hear they might have anticipated that need, you're still not happy.

Rather than lament that fact the the system is changing, shouldn't we try to see how we can make the new system work for the members? RCI is changing the system, and we can choose to learn how to benefit from the new system, or we can leave RCI. Your choice to leave is fine, but why don't you allow the rest of us to at least see if the new system is worth staying?

You paint RCI as a huge evil corporation out to take our weeks from us, with little or no compensation. The only way that will happen is if we willingly give them our weeks over and over. If you had your way, RCI would be legislated out of existence. Theirs may not be a perfect exchange systems, but neither are any of the others. We are each free to choose whichever one suits our own needs. I don't see the smaller companies suiting my needs because they don't have the volume. They also don't publish the complete details of how their systems work. You like DAE, and that's great for you, but I don't see how thay treat peak week owners any more fairly than RCI. If you deposit with they you stand in line behind everyone else who placed a request before you, so the only way to get to the front of the line for the best weeks is to requests them as far ahead as possible You want that week in Maui, you had better deposit something 2 years ahead of when you want to go, and use that to request - but that means paying for that vacation 2 years ahead, and knowing your vacation schedule that far ahead. What percentage of RCI members really plan that far out?

 

[Carolinian]

That ''maybe'' on the last minute trades is a huge issue for the financial viability of many resorts. The owners of those weeks who bought to trade did so explicitly for the last minute exchanges in many instances. This was heavily promoted by both developers and RCI itself. In the last few years, RCI has deleted its references to the 45 window trades in its US materials and in its European directory has shifted to promoting cheap rentals of those weeks. The 45 day window has taken a huge hit as a result of 1) RCI renting this inventory to the general public, and 2) RCI making this last minute Weeks inventory availible to Points members for 9K points. As this inventory has been degraded by RCI, resorts have been seeing the owners of this offseason time who bought it to trade bail out. RCI's changes in this area can be what leads to the final stampede for the exits for those who still own to trade the offseason weeks.

To expand upon your thoughs on ongoing searches:

If we have one week worth 42 points, and another worth 16, will we have the option of setting the number of points we can use for that ongoing search, or will we be restricted to a choice of 16 or 42 (one of our weeks), and possibly 58 (the two weeks combined).

Then there's the issue of bulk banking.

Right now if a resort bulk banks, I'm assuming what happens is the supply drives down the credits for the newest banked weeks. As exchanges are made, and the supply diminishes, the credits required increases back to where it was before.

While the timing of bulk bankings are valuable for owners of "almost good enough" weeks now, they will be just as valuable for all owners now, because they results in a lower cost for those weeks.

Thirdly are those last minute weeks. Maybe weeks owners will at last have the same benefits that points owners have - the ability to use smaller numbers of credits for those last minute reservations. Will they simply set a single cost (maybe 5 points) for all last-minute inventory, or will they base it on a percentage of the "full price?" And is 5 points the minimum RCI will award for any deposit, or will a week with a value of 10 points deposited a full year out only get 3 points if deposited really late? If there is no real change to the trading power, just "publication of the numbers" I would think the cost of last minute weeks would be the same as the minimum given for all last-minute deposits. It should be interesting to see how this all works.

 

[MichaelColey]

Based on the way RCI rates the parts of a 2 bedroom lockoff as far, far greater than the whole, there will be a more transparent incentive for owners to deposit these units in pieces (especially when one considers the ability to recombine deposits for another 'small' fee and then get a significantly higher trade value, far more than you would have gotten otherwise by depositing whole.

I totally agree. Lockoffs will become much harder to find. Right now, many people don't realize that they're worth more separately. (That was one of my first questions here on TUG.) With transparent trading power, it'll be much more obvious.

Most are just likely keeping their fingers crossed that RCI doesn't slam their resort / resort area / week with an unfair value. The time that people will get upset is when they seeing they have been hosed on value.

Are you basing that on the assumption that they're lying about not changing trading powers? I don't think the trading powers are going to be a surprise to anyone. Those who have had a hard time finding good trades are going to see a number that indicates that they have a poor trader. Those who have had tiger traders will see a high number. They're just adding transparency.

In the last few years, RCI has deleted its references to the 45 window trades in its US materials and in its European directory has shifted to promoting cheap rentals of those weeks. The 45 day window has taken a huge hit as a result of 1) RCI renting this inventory to the general public, and 2) RCI making this last minute Weeks inventory availible to Points members for 9K points.

They're trying to dump the weeks every way they can, but there's still a ton of it out there. The 3-45 day window right now is 10/27 - 12/8, and I see 10,334 units at 1451 resorts. Just from 10/27 - 11/2 (the next 7 days), I see 1500 units at 702 resorts. 34 of those are 2BR or 3BR units in US-based Gold Crown resorts.

If RCI cuts off easy trading within 45 days, they're going to have 1000+ units (that could have earned an exchange fee) expire worthless every week. I just don't see them doing that.

 

[MichaelColey]

Of course, when RCI does change the trading power, they don't tell you the truth. They claim they haven't changed anything. So why should we believe this claim when lying about such things is just a broken record for RCI.

Once they become transparent, they won't be able to hide any future changes in trading power.

 

[WinniWoman]

Want weeks not points!

If I wanted points, I would have purchased points! I stayed with weeks because of the SIMPLICITY of it. I do not want to use partial weeks and credits and all this nonsense! I won't give up 2 weeks in a beautiful unit, even if it is off-season, just to get one in a strong season somewhere else. In any event, no matter what RCI does, it will be for the betterment of RCI, not it's members! I just hope I will be able to trade my blue and white weeks to go back into my home resort during the pink weeks. (I have always been able to do that and even been able to upgrade from 2 bedrooms to 3). Then, I'll be fine because I just rent if I want to go somewhere else.

 

[timeos2]

It's always been points but some never wanted to believe that

If I wanted points, I would have purchased points! I stayed with weeks because of the SIMPLICITY of it. I do not want to use partial weeks and credits and all this nonsense! I won't give up 2 weeks in a beautiful unit, even if it is off-season, just to get one in a strong season somewhere else. In any event, no matter what RCI does, it will be for the betterment of RCI, not it's members! I just hope I will be able to trade my blue and white weeks to go back into my home resort during the pink weeks. (I have always been able to do that and even been able to upgrade from 2 bedrooms to 3). Then, I'll be fine because I just rent if I want to go somewhere else.

But you apparently fail to understand that this magic value - credits, points, trade power, whatever you want to call it - has ALWAYS been there & applied to your week(s). The only change is now you will know if you have enough trade power to get what you want or not. Isn't that better than sitting & waiting foir a trade that isn't going to happen? It's about being more informed vs playing a guessing game.

You can still keep it very simple. Before you request your trade look at the requested resort. If it is worth the same as your or less you got it - you don't have to worry about change back if you just want to ignore it. If it requires more then you won't get the trade and you can mve on to a new request. Still very simple and really no change from today except you know better why the trade wasn't made.

 

[Bourne]

Another tidbit from the land of the evil empire. Thou shalth not combine two weeks trading power credits to get a super week. Only credit left from a trade can be applied.

Which makes sense. The key driver for this change is more revenue. And yes, the 45 day credit example is one of the ways the weeks system could be manipulated. Now points and weeks members can get shot at cheap last minute inventory.

 

[timeos2]

Another tidbit from the land of the evil empire. Thou shalth not combine two weeks trading power credits to get a super week. Only credit left from a trade can be applied.

Which makes sense. The key driver for this change is more revenue. And yes, the 45 day credit example is one of the ways the weeks system could be manipulated. Now points and weeks members can get shot at cheap last minute inventory.

Where did you come up with this? The official stuff specifically mentions using two (or more) weeks combined to get needed credits for a trade.

 

[MichaelColey]

Another tidbit from the land of the evil empire. Thou shalth not combine two weeks trading power credits to get a super week. Only credit left from a trade can be applied.

Huh?

Where did you come up with this? The official stuff specifically mentions using two (or more) weeks combined to get needed credits for a trade.

Exactly. Here's the post:

Combine Deposited Weeks

If you want to trade up to an Exchange with a trading power higher than that of any of your Deposits, you can combine two or more of your weeks and their trading power, giving you access to vacations that you might not have been able to book in the past.

 

[eal]

There was an RCI rep at the Pacific Shores AGM that I attended yesterday, and he said November 15.

 

[MICP0528]

November 1st

I had some technical problem recently with my account. The tech told me beginning Nov. 1st RCI is starting a new program. She then backtracked and said "Oh I shouldn't have said that" In reality who knows when!

 

[Carolinian]

Once they become transparent, they won't be able to hide any future changes in trading power.

But they will be able to continue to hide the insider deals with developers to set inflated numbers, and having published numbers creates an incentive for that in the Weeks program that never existed before.

 

[WinniWoman]

Combining red and white weeks

I remember a number of years ago, we wanted to go to Hawaii in the summer. Per RCI's suggestion, we deposited our red and our white week in exchange for 2 consecutive weeks in Hawaii at 2 different resorts (2 different islands - The Big Island and Kauai) - one a silver crown and one a gold crown. According to them, the red week upped the power of the white week and they were able to make it happen.

 

[MichaelColey]

Your argument makes no sense. If the numbers are visible, how can they hide it? It looks like your hatred of all things RCI is clouding your viewpoints.

 

[Carolinian]

And how in the world do you expect the fact that ONLY the resulting numbers are public, not the formula or data behind those numbers to prevent deals between RCI and develpers for numbers they do not deserve? As long as the process for setting the numbers is hidden, there is no way to know how they were arrived at. Your argument makes no sense. Your blind loyalty to RCI is clouding your viewpoints.

Your argument makes no sense. If the numbers are visible, how can they hide it? It looks like your hatred of all things RCI is clouding your viewpoints.

 

[Carolinian]

There are times of the year that dumping last minute weeks makes sense, essentially those times that the weeks would have low value anyway. There are other times of the year, that they are highly sought after, and it is the renting of these, or shifting them to Points members, that has degraded the exchange pool for those who have played the 45 day window in the past.

The window right now is one of those less desirable times most places.

They're trying to dump the weeks every way they can, but there's still a ton of it out there. The 3-45 day window right now is 10/27 - 12/8, and I see 10,334 units at 1451 resorts. Just from 10/27 - 11/2 (the next 7 days), I see 1500 units at 702 resorts. 34 of those are 2BR or 3BR units in US-based Gold Crown resorts.

If RCI cuts off easy trading within 45 days, they're going to have 1000+ units (that could have earned an exchange fee) expire worthless every week. I just don't see them doing that.

 

[Carolinian]

But you still got 2 for 2, a much better deal than 1 for 2.

I remember a number of years ago, we wanted to go to Hawaii in the summer. Per RCI's suggestion, we deposited our red and our white week in exchange for 2 consecutive weeks in Hawaii at 2 different resorts (2 different islands - The Big Island and Kauai) - one a silver crown and one a gold crown. According to them, the red week upped the power of the white week and they were able to make it happen.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Don't Confuse Us With Facts. Our Minds Are Made Up.

Your blind loyalty to RCI is clouding your viewpoints.

It looks like your hatred of all things RCI is clouding your viewpoints.

Clearly there are only 2 choices . . .

(1) RCI Can Do No Wrong.

(2) Blind Hatred Of All Things RCI.

It's been that way for a l-o-n-g time.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Mel]

As has been said over and over - if they don't deserve the numbers, people won't want to exchange in.

Let them set a high starting number, and let the weeks from those resorts stagnate in the spacebank, and be reduced to firesale prices. If demand is already low, do you honestly think that raising the "price" to exchange in is going the drive demand any higher?

Yes, there are some gullible people who this that anything that costs more must be better - fine, let them exchange into sub-par resorts that cost too much. It leaves the better, but less expensive weeks for those that actually care.

Steve - why isit that you can't accept that something might actually be good for exchangers? Why not accept that this change is happening, and help figure out how we can all benefit from the changes?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Your argument makes no sense. If the numbers are visible, how can they hide it? It looks like your hatred of all things RCI is clouding your viewpoints.

After 26-27 years of dealing with RCI, I can tell you that no change is going to be good for RCI's exchange customers.

As I said before, my studio units in Myrtle Beach are tigers now, but I don't expect things to stay that way. Suddenly the value of that week will decrease, because they will "re-evaluate" exchange power, and I will be disappointed in the result.

RCI is going to take two weeks for one, a simple way to double their rental inventory. Not nearly the deal the head salesman at Jungle Cruise is offering: "He will give two heads for just one of yours...."

I am worried. Supposedly no change in trade power, but that is what they said after 5/30/2009, when they drastically reduced the trading power to all five of my deposited weeks, then denied the entire fiasco.

Fortunately, the trading power is almost back to the way it was for some of my weeks. I can only say I am concerned for the future of RCI trades and hope John is right when he says trading power won't be affected. We will see.

 

[Carolinian]

Too different theories from two different purported insiders

If we still had Bootleg, our old-time TUG resident RCI insider, his information would have instant credibility, but he has unfortunately left us. Similarly with Anon over at TimeShareTalk, whose RCI bonafides were verified by the site owner (who asked Anon some very specific questions about his own RCI account that only someone with access to RCI computers could answer and Anon came back with all the right answers). Now we have two purported RCI insiders on TUG providing info whom we do not have this history with, and they give conflicting accounts.

On one very critical issue, one version is that trading will be by exact number, and the other that trading will still be within a band or a ''range'' as it was described in the past. The latter, while far from curing all the flaws in the new RCI exchange regime, would make it at least far more palatable than the first scenario. Using exact numbers would certainly mean that some trades that most can get now they would not be able to get under the new regime, which would be a loss of trade power.

 

[Carolinian]

The solution is to use a different exchange company. Most exchange companies are still offering clean week for week trades.

If I wanted points, I would have purchased points! I stayed with weeks because of the SIMPLICITY of it. I do not want to use partial weeks and credits and all this nonsense! I won't give up 2 weeks in a beautiful unit, even if it is off-season, just to get one in a strong season somewhere else. In any event, no matter what RCI does, it will be for the betterment of RCI, not it's members! I just hope I will be able to trade my blue and white weeks to go back into my home resort during the pink weeks. (I have always been able to do that and even been able to upgrade from 2 bedrooms to 3). Then, I'll be fine because I just rent if I want to go somewhere else.

 

[Carolinian]

If RCI were simply an exchange company, as they once were, they would undoubtedly be forced to adjust numbers to market. But, once again, the problem is now that RCI is as they describe themselves a ''rental and exchange company'' and that makes the dynamics very different. Even in the old scenario, they would likely to willing to allow some fudged numbers as a loss leader to attract some developers, from whom they would expect to get lots of new members. The situation is not nearly as simplistic as you make it out to be.

When RCI has done a whole lot of things that have NOT been good for members, like their rentals to the general public, there is simply no good reason to think that this is any different. Their use of the Orwellian corporate-speak term ''enhancements'' which in the real world usually means the exact opposite certainly is not something that gives much confidence, either!

As has been said over and over - if they don't deserve the numbers, people won't want to exchange in.

Let them set a high starting number, and let the weeks from those resorts stagnate in the spacebank, and be reduced to firesale prices. If demand is already low, do you honestly think that raising the "price" to exchange in is going the drive demand any higher?

Yes, there are some gullible people who this that anything that costs more must be better - fine, let them exchange into sub-par resorts that cost too much. It leaves the better, but less expensive weeks for those that actually care.

Steve - why isit that you can't accept that something might actually be good for exchangers? Why not accept that this change is happening, and help figure out how we can all benefit from the changes?