RCI Weeks to offer value transparency

[rickandcindy23]

And as a nod to you, Carolinian, we will be able to see just what the difference is between those red Orlando weeks, and blue weeks elsewhere. Perhaps what we will see is that Blue week owners who deposit early (as many have to do over the years) do in fact have enough trade power to get into Orlando on a regular basis, not because the weeks are worth as much a year out, but because there are so many Orlando owners that there are enough later deposits, with reduced value, for them to qualify.

Blue weeks pull 2 and 3 bedrooms in Orlando, including many Gold Crown. The beauty of the 1-in-? RCI arrangements with Orlando resorts is that I can get 3 bedrooms at Gold Crowns with my blue weeks. The inventory is plentiful.

 

[MichaelColey]

FWIW, I just deposited a 2BR Blue Week, 3 weeks before check-in. (It sees about 65k units, unbelievably!) It can see one 3BR Gold Crowns in Orlando (not including the next 45 days, when trading value doesn't matter). During that same time (12/2/10 and on), the same deposit can see 252 3BR Gold Crowns total, including some in Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, Smuggler's Notch, and Colorado.

 

[Carolinian]

So much for your shot in the dark on the European availibility charts. Of course common sense SHOULD tell you that they are based on BOTH supply and demand, as either one alone would really not tell you about availibility. The descriptions of the scale, however, leave nothing to doubt with desctriptions that include terms like ''very highly demanded'' and ''highly demanded''. So again, your speculation is simply wrong.

I don't know what you have the class action lawsuit mixed up with, but it is clearly something else. The class action was about stopping RCI's rental program. RCI is certainly NOT giving us that. If they were, I would agree that it would be an ''enhancement'' in the dictionary definition instead of in the Orwellian corporate-speak definition.

As to Orlando, what we will see is whether RCI has move the goalposts or not. We know everything can get Orlando, or the Canaries, or Branson now. Will they after the new RCI regime is imposed? If they do move the goalposts, they will create an even bigger excess and the Orlando rental prices will have to come down even more.

Orlando once did deserve a red all year designation. Marvin Beard, who founded of Outer Banks Resort Rentals, a timeshare specialist rental and resale brokerage back when timesharing was in its infancy. made a comment to me years ago on Orlando. Marvin said he remembered a time that Orlando was referred to in timesharing as ''Mouse-front property'' and was a hot commodity. Rolling his eyes, he continued that now anything would trade for Orlando.

And when were these resorts given the year-round RED designation? Long before Cendant got involved! The color codes are a relic of early RCI - the RCI that you long to go back to!

You keep saying RCI doesn't publish anything honest except the data regarding award status - yet you insist on relying on RCI Europe's published chart. Again, are they honest or dishonest. That chart is about availability - sounds like Supply to me, not supply vs demand. RCI does in fact have chart on its website broken down by week, that I posted on one of the threads several weeks back. I wish I had bookmarked it, but I didn't.

RCI has said the trading power isn't going to change when the new system goes live. Perhaps anyone who thinks this isn't true should take a snapshot of their availability just before we go live, and just after, to compare.

The more I look at that "enhancement" page, the more it sounds like RCI is in fact giving us what was asked for in the class-action lawsuit, only not just as a one-shot deal. We wanted to know what our deposit was worth before we commit, sounds like we're getting that. People often ask here if others see anything in the bank that they can't see with their current week. Now that won't be necessary (unless they keep quality filters). Those do in fact sound like real enhancements.

And as a nod to you, Carolinian, we will be able to see just what the difference is between those red Orlando weeks, and blue weeks elsewhere. Perhaps what we will see is that Blue week owners who deposit early (as many have to do over the years) do in fact have enough trade power to get into Orlando on a regular basis, not because the weeks are worth as much a year out, but because there are so many Orlando owners that there are enough later deposits, with reduced value, for them to qualify.

 

[Mel]

So much for your shot in the dark on the European availibility charts. Of course common sense SHOULD tell you that they are based on BOTH supply and demand, as either one alone would really not tell you about availibility. The descriptions of the scale, however, leave nothing to doubt with desctriptions that include terms like ''very highly demanded'' and ''highly demanded''. So again, your speculation is simply wrong.

If common sense says so, then why should we all believe you about these charts that none of the US members have seen? RCI publishes other charts which we have seen, and they paint an entirely different picture.

I know I posted this before, whether in this thread or another. But maybe you should look at this link, and see what these chart suggest:

http://www.rci.com/docs/KnowledgeBase/Attachments/2009_SeasonGrid.pdf

DO you have a link for the rest of us to see your European charts? Any explanation as to why these 2 sets of chart don't agree? Any proof that your charts are more accurate - the ones I'm providing show demand/availability at each individual resort, on a weekly basis, even it they do categorize into only 3 levels (red, white, blue weeks).

I don't know what you have the class action lawsuit mixed up with, but it is clearly something else. The class action was about stopping RCI's rental program. RCI is certainly NOT giving us that. If they were, I would agree that it would be an ''enhancement'' in the dictionary definition instead of in the Orwellian corporate-speak definition.

I don't have the class action mixed up with anything. The court agreed with the settlement, and seemed to indicate that what RCI was doing was acceptable. The settlement included a one-time ability to know our trade value ahead of time; but now it looks like we well get that for all deposits. That's not an enhancement?

How often do we see signtings requests, asking of anyone is seeing certain weeks in the exchange pool - now everyone will know what's available in the exchange pool, even if they don't have the trade power to secure it. That's not an enhancement?

As to Orlando, what we will see is whether RCI has move the goalposts or not. We know everything can get Orlando, or the Canaries, or Branson now. Will they after the new RCI regime is imposed? If they do move the goalposts, they will create an even bigger excess and the Orlando rental prices will have to come down even more.

And how exactly is that in RCI's best interest? If they're a big greedy corporation, only looking out for their own best interest, why would they set the bar so high, that they have to lower rental rates? That sounds counterintuitive

Orlando once did deserve a red all year designation. Marvin Beard, who founded of Outer Banks Resort Rentals, a timeshare specialist rental and resale brokerage back when timesharing was in its infancy. made a comment to me years ago on Orlando. Marvin said he remembered a time that Orlando was referred to in timesharing as ''Mouse-front property'' and was a hot commodity. Rolling his eyes, he continued that now anything would trade for Orlando.

The facts aren't there to support that statement. Perhaps a studio in a rundown resort can always be had, but maybe Cindy or Michael can tell us if their blue weeks can pull 2BR or better for every week over the course of the next year, at some of the better resorts (Tug ratings of 8.5 or better).

 

[timeos2]

If you'll take a studio or otherwise no so great unit then maybe its true

The facts aren't there to support that statement. Perhaps a studio in a rundown resort can always be had, but maybe Cindy or Michael can tell us if their blue weeks can pull 2BR or better for every week over the course of the next year, at some of the better resorts (Tug ratings of 8.5 or better).

Yeah, lots of luck with THAT. If you'll accept anything, and especially the monster mega resorts that seem determined to build themselves into worthlessness due to far too much inventory or the low end that really don't met Orlando standards (which are MUCH higher than most other areas) then yes, you can probably find something. But if you want the better resorts or just a specific resort you'd better plan ahead.

And, while it won't matter to most, IF you want a beach resort and have an Orlando resort 2 BR or higher to trade you'll most likely get it with no problem - except for about 8-10 weeks each year that do require serious planning to get. 30+ weeks a year you can get just about any beach location as there simply isn't much demand despite the relatively low supply. That's why the colors, as rough a rating as it represents, favor Orlando.

As long as you own a quality resort the trade power for Orlando is as good or better than most. Soon we'll know exactly what it is as well as what every other area has. Do most of you think that it is better that we haven't been able to get that information for 35 years? Not me.

 

[MichaelColey]

The facts aren't there to support that statement. Perhaps a studio in a rundown resort can always be had, but maybe Cindy or Michael can tell us if their blue weeks can pull 2BR or better for every week over the course of the next year, at some of the better resorts (Tug ratings of 8.5 or better).

I'm not going to dig through and find TUG ratings on everything, but here's what I see with my last minute Blue week deposit (that sees 65k units):

Restricting to United States (24k units), 2+BR (22k), Gold Crown (2k), Full Kitchen (2k), I see 2065 units in 115 resorts. (My better traders see over 5k.)

Looking week by week, my blue week can exchange into a unit somewhere in the US that fits that criteria ANY week between now and the end of next year, EXCEPT 6/17 and 6/24. Yes, even Easter, July 4th, Christmas, and New Years.

Looking through the 115 resorts, the ones with the most availability (20 or more units seen by my Blue week) are:

Escapes! to Bella Vista Village (#1927)
Escapes! to Hot Springs Village (#1924)
Escapes! to Stonebridge Village (#3402)
Four Seasons Racquet & Country Club (#2751)
Grandview at Las Vegas (#6923)
Holiday Inn Club Vacations at Orange Lake Resort - West Village (#0670)
Holiday Inn Club Vacations South Beach Resort (#6727)
Lake Chelan Shores (#0441)
Lakewood Resort (#5127)
Meadow Lake Golf and Ski Resort (#1909)
Mizner Place (#7559)
Pend Oreille Shores Resort (#5123)
Peterson's Waterfront Resort (#1217)
Plantation Resort Villas (#6045)
Sheraton Broadway Plantation (#4322)
Silverleaf's Timber Creek Resort (#4864)
Smugglers' Notch Resort (#0300)
Sunrise Ridge Resort (#3876)
Table Rock Landing on Holiday Island (#5153)
The Rushes (#5082)
The Summit at Massanutten (#3640)
Vacation Village at Weston (#5773)
Vacation Village in the Berkshires (#6057)
Wapato Point (#0936)
Whitebirch at Breezy Point Resort (#4983)
Woodstone at Massanutten (#5711)
Wyndham Branson (#3294)
Wyndham Flagstaff (#0759)
Wyndham Ocean Boulevard (#6777)
Wyndham Resort at Fairfield Glade (#0072)

Excluding units from the next 45 days (where trading power doesn't matter), I can still see at least one unit from each of these top notch resorts:

Bluegreen Wilderness Club at Big Cedar (#6311) - TUG Rating 9.37, ranked #15!
Hilton Grand Vacations Club on the Las Vegas Strip (#6300) - TUG Rating 8.8
Smugglers' Notch Resort (#0300) - TUG Rating 8.72
Hilton Grand Vacations Club on International Drive (#6309) - TUG Rating 9.11

 

[Mel]

I'm not going to dig through and find TUG ratings on everything, but here's what I see with my last minute Blue week deposit (that sees 65k units):

Restricting to United States (24k units), 2+BR (22k), Gold Crown (2k), Full Kitchen (2k), I see 2065 units in 115 resorts. (My better traders see over 5k.)

Looking week by week, my blue week can exchange into a unit somewhere in the US that fits that criteria ANY week between now and the end of next year, EXCEPT 6/17 and 6/24. Yes, even Easter, July 4th, Christmas, and New Years.

Sorry Michael, maybe I wasn't clear - Carolinian asserts that your blue week can exchange into Orlando during any week during the year. What I'm curious about is how accurate (or not) his statement is. I did notice a couple of Orlando resorts on your list.

So to restate the question - how many weeks of the year can your Blue Studio exchange into a 2BR or better unit at an Orlando resort with a rating of 8.5 or better (or use Gold Crown, since that's easy to filter).

I'm surprised you can't see more than 20 units at Vacation Village at Parkway, or and of the other resorts where Carolinian insists RCI has such a huge Oversupply.

 

[MichaelColey]

Okay, narrowing my search further to include only Orlando... My last minute Blue week deposit only sees 101 units from 13 resorts. The 13 resorts are:

Hilton Grand Vacations Club at SeaWorld International Center (#3517)
Hilton Grand Vacations Club on International Drive (#6309)
Holiday Inn Club Vacations at Orange Lake Resort - East Village (#8896)
Holiday Inn Club Vacations at Orange Lake Resort - North Village (#8897)
Holiday Inn Club Vacations at Orange Lake Resort - West Village (#0670)
Magic Tree Resort (#8461)
Orlando International Resort Club (#0552)
Orlando's Sunshine Resort II (#5592)
Silver Lake Resort-Silver Points (#6815)
Silverleaf's Orlando Breeze Resort (#A432)
Summer Bay Resort (#3175)
The Gardens (#7549)
Vacation Village at Parkway (#4940)

I can only exchange into these Orlando 2BR units for about half of the next 52 weeks using this deposit. I'm not sure that's a relevant observation, though. Orlando always seems to have some good inventory still available 45 days out, so I have no doubt I could pick up something good virtually any week. (Interestingly, Kauai has been the same way.) The resorts I see showing up at (and within) the 45 day point have been amazing.

I can only see 18 units at Vacation Village at Parkway with this deposit. I see considerably more with other deposits, but the trading value must be just a bit higher.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Okay, narrowing my search further to include only Orlando... My last minute Blue week deposit only sees 101 units from 13 resorts.

I think we need to know not just what resorts but what specific weeks. Carolinian is saying that you can get any week of the year in Orlando with your blue week.

 

[Carolinian]

Your chart appears to be nothing but the red-white-blue seasons all collected into one place. Nothing else!

The charts in the European directory break it into four categories and seem to be a lot more up to date (they give the REAL picture in ''red all year'' Canary Islands for example). They break it down by month. The last directory had these grouped in one place in the front. Now they scatter these through the directory in each section.

Prior to when I started posting about these charts, RCI North America would send its members a copy of the European version of the dirctory for a fee. Not long after I started posting about them, Tuggers started mentioning that RCI had quit doing that. You might try to see if they are providing these again, or otherwise try to get one through one of the European resorts.

As to the class action lawsuit, seeing trading power was NOT part of the relief sought in either original complaint. Stopping RCI rentals (which you support) was the relief sought. After the class action attorneys sold their clients down the river for a few trinkets, the ability to see trading power was merely one of those trinkets. As you remember, this ''setttlement'' was unusual for a class action in that so many of the class members objected to it, and even had their own counsel. Your assertion of seeing trading power as part of what the class action sought is a total distortion.

If common sense says so, then why should we all believe you about these charts that none of the US members have seen? RCI publishes other charts which we have seen, and they paint an entirely different picture.

I know I posted this before, whether in this thread or another. But maybe you should look at this link, and see what these chart suggest:

http://www.rci.com/docs/KnowledgeBase/Attachments/2009_SeasonGrid.pdf

DO you have a link for the rest of us to see your European charts? Any explanation as to why these 2 sets of chart don't agree? Any proof that your charts are more accurate - the ones I'm providing show demand/availability at each individual resort, on a weekly basis, even it they do categorize into only 3 levels (red, white, blue weeks).
I don't have the class action mixed up with anything. The court agreed with the settlement, and seemed to indicate that what RCI was doing was acceptable. The settlement included a one-time ability to know our trade value ahead of time; but now it looks like we well get that for all deposits. That's not an enhancement?

How often do we see signtings requests, asking of anyone is seeing certain weeks in the exchange pool - now everyone will know what's available in the exchange pool, even if they don't have the trade power to secure it. That's not an enhancement?
And how exactly is that in RCI's best interest? If they're a big greedy corporation, only looking out for their own best interest, why would they set the bar so high, that they have to lower rental rates? That sounds counterintuitive
The facts aren't there to support that statement. Perhaps a studio in a rundown resort can always be had, but maybe Cindy or Michael can tell us if their blue weeks can pull 2BR or better for every week over the course of the next year, at some of the better resorts (Tug ratings of 8.5 or better).

 

[Carolinian]

NO, I have specifically said that there are better weeks in Orlando, such as Christmas, New Years, and a chunk of the summer. They have their high season like everyone else. I have repeatedly said that MUCH of they year was regularly availlible in Orlando at MANY of the resorts. Please don't try to set up another straw man by saying that I am also including resorts like DVC.

I think we need to know not just what resorts but what specific weeks. Carolinian is saying that you can get any week of the year in Orlando with your blue week.

 

[Carolinian]

Mel, in your defenses of RCI you are constantly putting up straw men so that you can try to knock them down. This is just another one. Go back and read my posts. I have said that Orlando was availible as a trade for a blue week for MUCH of the year at MANY of the resorts. Before long, you will be saying that I included DVC, too!

By trying to narrow this to just certain resorts in larger units, you are admitting my assertion. Why don't you take Bootleg's word for it. He had access to RCI's computers, which you do not.

Sorry Michael, maybe I wasn't clear - Carolinian asserts that your blue week can exchange into Orlando during any week during the year. What I'm curious about is how accurate (or not) his statement is. I did notice a couple of Orlando resorts on your list.

So to restate the question - how many weeks of the year can your Blue Studio exchange into a 2BR or better unit at an Orlando resort with a rating of 8.5 or better (or use Gold Crown, since that's easy to filter).

I'm surprised you can't see more than 20 units at Vacation Village at Parkway, or and of the other resorts where Carolinian insists RCI has such a huge Oversupply.

 

[MichaelColey]

He had access to RCI's computers, which you do not.

At RCI.com, I think we all have access to RCI's computers.

I think we need to know not just what resorts but what specific weeks. Carolinian is saying that you can get any week of the year in Orlando with your blue week.

I have said that Orlando was availible as a trade for a blue week for MUCH of the year at MANY of the resorts.

Okay, let me look at Orlando a little closer.

Using my Blue week to look at 2BR units in Orlando for all of 2011, I can see 208 units at 27 resorts. 49 are Gold and 38 are Silver.

Looking at all 208 units, I can exchange in anytime in January, May, June, September, October, and November. I can see some weeks in February, April, July, August and December. I can't see anything in March. If I counted right, I can only see inventory in 36 of 52 weeks. Many of those weeks have very little selection.

If I restrict my search to just Gold or Silver resorts, I can only see the following weeks: 1/7, 1/14, 1/21, 1/28, 2/4, 5/13, 6/10, 9/16, 9/23, and 12/9. That's only 10 of 52 weeks. (All of those have Gold resorts available, except 2/4.)

Now if I look at my BEST trader (2BR Red Week, Gold Crown, prime week, tiger cub) instead and look just for Gold Crown resorts, here are the weeks where I don't see any 2BR inventory: 1/1, 2/18, 3/11, 11/18, 12/23, and 12/30. I can see 46 of 52 weeks (although a few of those -- particularly in April and June -- are very limited).

I think this shows that the assertation that Orlando is available as a trade for a Blue week for much of the year is clearly wrong. It's available, but not with a Blue week.

 

[e.bram]

But who wants to go to Orlando?

 

[MichaelColey]

Only about 50 million people every year.

 

[Carolinian]

If I remember correctly, though, your blue week that you are using is one that was deposited last minute. While it has been years since I owned a blue week, I never did deposit one last minute. I did however once deposit a summer holiday red week last minute when a rental fell through, and it traded like a blue week deposited a year or so out. A blue week deposited at the last minute is thus almost certainly much less of a trader than even the same week deposited at an earlier time, and so is not a very good indicator.

At RCI.com, I think we all have access to RCI's computers.

Okay, let me look at Orlando a little closer.

Using my Blue week to look at 2BR units in Orlando for all of 2011, I can see 208 units at 27 resorts. 49 are Gold and 38 are Silver.

Looking at all 208 units, I can exchange in anytime in January, May, June, September, October, and November. I can see some weeks in February, April, July, August and December. I can't see anything in March. If I counted right, I can only see inventory in 36 of 52 weeks. Many of those weeks have very little selection.

If I restrict my search to just Gold or Silver resorts, I can only see the following weeks: 1/7, 1/14, 1/21, 1/28, 2/4, 5/13, 6/10, 9/16, 9/23, and 12/9. That's only 10 of 52 weeks. (All of those have Gold resorts available, except 2/4.)

Now if I look at my BEST trader (2BR Red Week, Gold Crown, prime week, tiger cub) instead and look just for Gold Crown resorts, here are the weeks where I don't see any 2BR inventory: 1/1, 2/18, 3/11, 11/18, 12/23, and 12/30. I can see 46 of 52 weeks (although a few of those -- particularly in April and June -- are very limited).

I think this shows that the assertation that Orlando is available as a trade for a Blue week for much of the year is clearly wrong. It's available, but not with a Blue week.

 

[MichaelColey]

If I remember correctly, though, your blue week that you are using is one that was deposited last minute. ... A blue week deposited at the last minute is thus almost certainly much less of a trader than even the same week deposited at an earlier time, and so is not a very good indicator.

While it was deposited only three weeks before check-in, it still sees 65k units, which is over 40% of RCI's inventory. (I haven't heard of anyone who can see more than 150k units, and 65/150 is 43%.)

I think the observations from this deposit perfectly prove the point, as those units it can't see would have a "middle of the road" or higher trading value.

Another month or so, and I think things will be much more clear.

 

[Bourne]

A minit tidbit...

FWIV, word on the street is that the there are no plans on changing the number of trading bands in the near future. The DVC upgrade burned a sizeable hole in the IT budget...

The Nov change is more of a revenue generator. it potentially allows more trades to be confirmed even if the number of deposits/members do not change. Which IMHO, is a good idea.

Again, this is second hand info...

 

[Carolinian]

While it was deposited only three weeks before check-in, it still sees 65k units, which is over 40% of RCI's inventory. (I haven't heard of anyone who can see more than 150k units, and 65/150 is 43%.)

I think the observations from this deposit perfectly prove the point, as those units it can't see would have a "middle of the road" or higher trading value.

Another month or so, and I think things will be much more clear.

. . . when they have moved the goalposts!

 

[Carolinian]

A minit tidbit...

FWIV, word on the street is that the there are no plans on changing the number of trading bands in the near future. The DVC upgrade burned a sizeable hole in the IT budget...

The Nov change is more of a revenue generator. it potentially allows more trades to be confirmed even if the number of deposits/members do not change. Which IMHO, is a good idea.

Again, this is second hand info...

Oh, but your number of members and deposits WILL change, and not for the positive. Crusin's post was right on the mark on that subject.

 

[Mel]

Your chart appears to be nothing but the red-white-blue seasons all collected into one place. Nothing else!

The charts in the European directory break it into four categories and seem to be a lot more up to date (they give the REAL picture in ''red all year'' Canary Islands for example). They break it down by month. The last directory had these grouped in one place in the front. Now they scatter these through the directory in each section.

So your charts break things into 4 categories, and applies to resort areas, on a monthly basis. My charts only have 3 categories, but show demand on a weekly basis for every resort. Which of these charts is more detailed?

But, I know, these charts don't bolster your opinion, so they should be disregarded.

As to the class action lawsuit, seeing trading power was NOT part of the relief sought in either original complaint. Stopping RCI rentals (which you support) was the relief sought. After the class action attorneys sold their clients down the river for a few trinkets, the ability to see trading power was merely one of those trinkets. As you remember, this ''setttlement'' was unusual for a class action in that so many of the class members objected to it, and even had their own counsel. Your assertion of seeing trading power as part of what the class action sought is a total distortion.

No, it wasn't the main purpose of the class action, however, it was part of the settlement - if it was meaninless, then why accept the settlement. Somebody thought being able to see the value of your week before you deposit might be useful. What many people objected to was the one-time offer made by RCI. Now it won't be one time only, we'll know the value of our deposits when we make them.

Mel, in your defenses of RCI you are constantly putting up straw men so that you can try to knock them down. This is just another one. Go back and read my posts. I have said that Orlando was availible as a trade for a blue week for MUCH of the year at MANY of the resorts. Before long, you will be saying that I included DVC, too!

By trying to narrow this to just certain resorts in larger units, you are admitting my assertion. Why don't you take Bootleg's word for it. He had access to RCI's computers, which you do not.

No, you don't include DVC, but you obviously also don't include many other Orlando resorts. Does much of the time mean 40% of the year? Many resorts doesn't mean anything either - there are many resorts in Orlando that most people don't want to visit. Who cares if that blue week can exchange into a motel conversion that doesn't have enough beds for my family?

If I remember correctly, though, your blue week that you are using is one that was deposited last minute. While it has been years since I owned a blue week, I never did deposit one last minute. I did however once deposit a summer holiday red week last minute when a rental fell through, and it traded like a blue week deposited a year or so out. A blue week deposited at the last minute is thus almost certainly much less of a trader than even the same week deposited at an earlier time, and so is not a very good indicator.

FWIW, I just deposited a 2BR Blue Week, 3 weeks before check-in. (It sees about 65k units, unbelievably!) It can see one 3BR Gold Crowns in Orlando (not including the next 45 days, when trading value doesn't matter). During that same time (12/2/10 and on), the same deposit can see 252 3BR Gold Crowns total, including some in Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, Smuggler's Notch, and Colorado.

Michael states his blue week sees 65,000 units, so it has fairly decent exchange value. But it doesn't confirm your assertions, so once again, we should disregard it.

So much for your shot in the dark on the European availibility charts. Of course common sense SHOULD tell you that they are based on BOTH supply and demand, as either one alone would really not tell you about availibility. The descriptions of the scale, however, leave nothing to doubt with desctriptions that include terms like ''very highly demanded'' and ''highly demanded''. So again, your speculation is simply wrong.

But again, how do you explain the difference between your charts and mine. Again, availability doesn't mean everything.The fact that the information on these two sets of charts seem to contradict each other seems to indicate that they are not in fact showing the same information. As I have already suggested before, perhaps your charts are based on demand among RCI Europe members, which would be very different than demand from US members, RCI members worldwide.

As to Orlando, what we will see is whether RCI has move the goalposts or not. We know everything can get Orlando, or the Canaries, or Branson now. Will they after the new RCI regime is imposed? If they do move the goalposts, they will create an even bigger excess and the Orlando rental prices will have to come down even more.

Again, this makes no sense from RCI's perspective. They are in this to make money. Why would they do something to drive down the rental prices, and hurt their own bottom line?

You claim RCI is going to lose many members when they see the value of their weeks. But if they are not in fact changing the underlying formula, and everybody is still able to exchange for everything the do right now, it might in fact drive business up.

You look at the deposit you already have in the bank, and see what you can get as an exchange, which has not changed. Do you leave RCI because you discover you can't exchange into the unit you couldn't exchange into before? Do you get upset because someone else's unit is worth more than your own? Do you quit because you discover that the last 20 exchanges you made, which you thought were even exchanges, we in fact trades down, and RCI has been ripping you off for the past 10 years? Or do you stick around because now when you make those same trades, you will get a bit of change, and that change will add up and get you an extra week every once in a while?

 

[Keep Traveling]

Blue Weeks,

I deposit blue weeks here and there. I have a currently 3 Bedroom Blue Week that has been deposited that see around 130k units. When DVCs come up I can see most of the 2 Bedrooms with it, but not the Beach Club is the only one I can't normally see.

So the problem sometimes grouping something in lumps is each resort trades differently. This blue week was made about 9 months out and has been very good at seeing a good deal of the stuff out there.

KT

 

[Carolinian]

Mel, come on, you participated in the thread on the RCI lawsuit settlement. You should be aware that the ''settlement'' was really nothing but a sell-out by the class action lawyers who only cared about one thing - their huge fee. You should also know that the vast majority of those individuals members who responded to the court strenously objected to the sell-out. Have you forgotten so soon, or is it just convenient to your argument? Go back and read the lengthly thread on the ''settlement'' if you need a refresher. What people objected to had nothing to do with the fact that the meaningless trinkets offered were a one time thing. What people objected to was that the lawsuit did nothing to deal with the one real issue in the case - RCI's wrongful rental of exchange deposits to the general public. But then, your focus may have been somewhere else since you support RCI's rentals of that inventory.

AGAIN, your ''charts'' are NOTHING but the RCI color codes collected in one place. They are nothing new. Indeed most of those color codes were established decades ago and for the most part not changed since. Have you just discovered the color codes or is this a red herring?

The availibility tables are more up to date. For example, they show the real story based on what actually comes into the system on the seasons of the ''red all year'' areas under the color codes.

As to your theory of RCI picking up business, please refer to Cruisin's posts. That is the reality of what RCI will face.

When it comes to availibility in the charts in the European version of the directory, if someone is occupying the unit, then it is not availible to trade into. It is totally irrelevent whether the person occupying it is from the US, Europe, or the moon. Charts based on demand from only one area whould be useless. Common sense should tell you that the only thing useful to members is the totality of supply and the totality of demand. It would not even be worth the time to compile what you are suggesting.

The difference between the availibility tables and the color codes (or ''your charts'' as you call them) is time of compilation. The color codes are simply ancient history.

As to Michael's blue week, it is a last minute deposit. Last minute deposits are whacked on trading power. Check out the post from a Tugger who has a blue week deposit that is NOT a last minute deposit.

So your charts break things into 4 categories, and applies to resort areas, on a monthly basis. My charts only have 3 categories, but show demand on a weekly basis for every resort. Which of these charts is more detailed?

But, I know, these charts don't bolster your opinion, so they should be disregarded.

No, it wasn't the main purpose of the class action, however, it was part of the settlement - if it was meaninless, then why accept the settlement. Somebody thought being able to see the value of your week before you deposit might be useful. What many people objected to was the one-time offer made by RCI. Now it won't be one time only, we'll know the value of our deposits when we make them.
No, you don't include DVC, but you obviously also don't include many other Orlando resorts. Does much of the time mean 40% of the year? Many resorts doesn't mean anything either - there are many resorts in Orlando that most people don't want to visit. Who cares if that blue week can exchange into a motel conversion that doesn't have enough beds for my family?



Michael states his blue week sees 65,000 units, so it has fairly decent exchange value. But it doesn't confirm your assertions, so once again, we should disregard it.
But again, how do you explain the difference between your charts and mine. Again, availability doesn't mean everything.The fact that the information on these two sets of charts seem to contradict each other seems to indicate that they are not in fact showing the same information. As I have already suggested before, perhaps your charts are based on demand among RCI Europe members, which would be very different than demand from US members, RCI members worldwide.

Again, this makes no sense from RCI's perspective. They are in this to make money. Why would they do something to drive down the rental prices, and hurt their own bottom line?

You claim RCI is going to lose many members when they see the value of their weeks. But if they are not in fact changing the underlying formula, and everybody is still able to exchange for everything the do right now, it might in fact drive business up.

You look at the deposit you already have in the bank, and see what you can get as an exchange, which has not changed. Do you leave RCI because you discover you can't exchange into the unit you couldn't exchange into before? Do you get upset because someone else's unit is worth more than your own? Do you quit because you discover that the last 20 exchanges you made, which you thought were even exchanges, we in fact trades down, and RCI has been ripping you off for the past 10 years? Or do you stick around because now when you make those same trades, you will get a bit of change, and that change will add up and get you an extra week every once in a while?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Blue Weeks,

I deposit blue weeks here and there. I have a currently 3 Bedroom Blue Week that has been deposited that see around 130k units. When DVCs come up I can see most of the 2 Bedrooms with it, but not the Beach Club is the only one I can't normally see.

So the problem sometimes grouping something in lumps is each resort trades differently. This blue week was made about 9 months out and has been very good at seeing a good deal of the stuff out there.

KT

What blue week sees Disney 2 bedrooms? What resort and week is that? I see 3 bedrooms at the Hiltons, Orange Lake and Summer Bay, all with a blue Colorado week (2 bed), and only because of the 1-in-3 and 4 rules.

 

[Mel]

What people objected to was that the lawsuit did nothing to deal with the one real issue in the case - RCI's wrongful rental of exchange deposits to the general public. But then, your focus may have been somewhere else since you support RCI's rentals of that inventory.

If that was all the class action was about, then why was there even a settlement? It was about what members perceived as being the result of the rentals, and they wanted to see an improvement or be compensated for the changes to the exchange system.

Why is it that despite prodding by many, none of the Attorneys General have filed suit against RCI. Is it perhaps because they are not legally doing anything wrong? Is it perhaps because RCI has an annual audit of what goes into and out of the exchange pool, and there is no proof that RCI is cooking the books?

Look at why RCI and II are successful. They provide exchanges for the vast majority of their members. For those who are not successful getting an exchange, the biggest complaint has been not knowing what their week is worth, and therefore not knowing what to expect as a fair exchange.

Whether this is what the lawsuit was about or not is the red herring. The only thing this has to do with the settlement is that it is providing MORE than what was offered in the settlement. RCI doesn't have to do this, but has chosen to do so.

AGAIN, your ''charts'' are NOTHING but the RCI color codes collected in one place. They are nothing new. Indeed most of those color codes were established decades ago and for the most part not changed since. Have you just discovered the color codes or is this a red herring?

The availibility tables are more up to date. For example, they show the real story based on what actually comes into the system on the seasons of the ''red all year'' areas under the color codes.[\quote]
Show us all the proof that your charts are more accurate, and more up to date. Did you even look at the charts I provided - week by week, resort by resort data, not categorized by area. There are times in other areas where I don't agree with the red designation, but that doesn't change the fact that RCI believes the demand at those times deserve the red designation.

If you want to expand the categories to differentiate between Orlando in Peak times and slow times, shouldn't we also differentiate the Blue weeks too? There's a pretty big difference between the best and worst of them too. You claim this new system is worthless without the formula to back it up - yet you stick by your European charts which also don't show any formula. What we're about to get will be even more detailed than your charts, yet you insist the new system will be worse than what we have. Why is that?

As to your theory of RCI picking up business, please refer to Cruisin's posts. That is the reality of what RCI will face.
[\quote]People are upset with the information (or lack thereof) they have right now. When RCI shuts down to implement this new system, I bet it will already be mostly in place - they need to shut down to implement the interface. We already access the mainframe running the exchange program through a web interface, in pseudo-real time. That interface will have to be adjusted, particularly with regard to making deposits. Whatever changes are being made to trade power were probably the result of the drop in trade power some people saw a while back. Those types of changes don't require a change to the interface, so why would RCI wait to make them?

Do you honstly believe publishing the trade power values is going to make people give up on timeshare? Those who might are already heading in that direction. If anything, I think more information will improve that situation.

Think of the general population of those who exchange their weeks. What percentage of them pays their maintenance fees early in order to deposit their week a full year out? Consider that blue week owner who pays in January and deposits their March week 3 months out, might discover that paying 6 months earlier will almost double the trade power. Consider he might now know what he would be able to get as an exchange by doing so, that he couldn't get before. Assuming her changes that maintenance fee to his credit card, and pays an extra 15% in finance charges (6 months, with a high rate card), he sees a dramatic improvement.

On the one hand you keep insisting that RCI has caused blue weeks to have little value, yet on the other hand you keep saying how those same blue weeks have better trade power than some red weeks. If that is the case, who should be upset? The blue week owners, or those red week owners?

When it comes to availibility in the charts in the European version of the directory, if someone is occupying the unit, then it is not availible to trade into. It is totally irrelevent whether the person occupying it is from the US, Europe, or the moon. Charts based on demand from only one area whould be useless. Common sense should tell you that the only thing useful to members is the totality of supply and the totality of demand. It would not even be worth the time to compile what you are suggesting.

The difference between the availibility tables and the color codes (or ''your charts'' as you call them) is time of compilation. The color codes are simply ancient history.

As to Michael's blue week, it is a last minute deposit. Last minute deposits are whacked on trading power. Check out the post from a Tugger who has a blue week deposit that is NOT a last minute deposit.