Wyndham proposal for Gold upgrade from Silver

[ecnetwrkr]

We are at Desert Grand and sat through ANOTHER presentation to hear what’s new. Of course, this led to a full-on push to get us upgraded to Gold. We are currently Silver w/400k points in CWA with $219/mos MF. They are proposing we trade for a deeded property here in Tower 2, purchase 300k points. This will require cash outlay of $63k and our MF will increase to $370/mos. I have a couple of questions: 1) is this a good deal? 2) why does Wyndham want to purchase my CWA so badly? 3) Am I in the leverage seat since I own CWA?

 

[uscav8r]

We are at Desert Grand and sat through ANOTHER presentation to hear what’s new. Of course, this led to a full-on push to get us upgraded to Gold. We are currently Silver w/400k points in CWA with $219/mos MF. They are proposing we trade for a deeded property here in Tower 2, purchase 300k points. This will require cash outlay of $63k and our MF will increase to $370/mos. I have a couple of questions: 1) is this a good deal? 2) why does Wyndham want to purchase my CWA so badly? 3) Am I in the leverage seat since I own CWA?

If you owned a deed at GD (or anywhere else), they would convince you to buy CWA. If you own CWA, they would try to convince you to trade it in for a deed. It’s their silly game.

Did you know that if you need/want more points that you could just buy resale and they will enjoy the Silver benefits you already have?

$63k is a lot to shell out up front for the POSSIBILITY of getting a slightly bigger (10% more) discount and an extra 15 days for possible unit upgrades. Too rich for my blood.


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[Jan M.]

The maintenance fees for Grand Desert building 2 are $4.73 per thousand points. CWA is $5.99 per thousand points so $1.26 more per thousand points. No Wyndham doesn't want your CWA points. You might be able to get them to come down some on the price but would have more bargaining power towards the end of the month with a salesperson who needs to make their quota to keep their job.

If you decide you do want more points you would want to do that before the new privileges program debuts later in 2020 so you are grandfathered. Otherwise it would require an even larger point purchase. If you are actually considering doing this you might want to see what the cost would be through Wyndham corporate telesales and enroll a PIC Plus three bedroom week or two of them. Each would get you 254,000 points towards a VIP level. You should be able to reach platinum that way. Look back through the threads to find out more about PICs.

 

[ecnetwrkr]

Thanks so much Chris and Jan. This information is very helpful. My main frustration is finding availability and taking advantage of my upgrade option. In the last five years I have never been able to receive an upgrade on any booking. They are telling me I need to get to the next level to increase my chances for this. Hence, the reason for considering this extra spend. My wife and I walked away from the table thinking this was not a wise decision.

 

[Sandy VDH]

PICs are a more economic way to obtain higher statuses. You have to purchase a smaller amount directly from Wyndham. But you need the PIC properties in your name first before you can pull that off.

$63K is too high for me.

 

[Richelle]

We are at Desert Grand and sat through ANOTHER presentation to hear what’s new. Of course, this led to a full-on push to get us upgraded to Gold. We are currently Silver w/400k points in CWA with $219/mos MF. They are proposing we trade for a deeded property here in Tower 2, purchase 300k points. This will require cash outlay of $63k and our MF will increase to $370/mos. I have a couple of questions: 1) is this a good deal? 2) why does Wyndham want to purchase my CWA so badly? 3) Am I in the leverage seat since I own CWA?

1. Buying from the resorts is NEVER a good deal. Buy from telesales to get it cheaper.

2. They don’t. It’s a sales ploy. If you had deeded, they’d tell you that they want your deeded inventory badly.

3. Nope. See above.

PIC is the cheapest way to get VIP. If you buy 49,000 points from telesales, you can enroll a qualifying fixer or float week timeshare into PIC Plus. A 3 bedroom will get you 254,000 points. You can get that three bedroom from eBay. Just make sure you work with a telesales rep on what qualifies BEFORE you buy any Fixed or float week timeshares. You may want to wait until the deed is recorded for that week before you buy points to enroll it into PIC Plus, so you have proof you own it, in case they question it.

49,000 points will run you around $12,000. 254k+400k+49k= 703k permanent VIP Gold for about $12k

If you want to enroll 2 PIC (the maximum allowed), you’ll need to buy a minimum of 98,000 points. I know 105,000 runs on the $16k range.

254k+254k+98k+400k=1,006,000 permanent VIP Platinum for around $15k.

These numbers are assuming you get three bedroom PIC weeks. If you go with smaller units, you get less points.


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[Richelle]

Thanks so much Chris and Jan. This information is very helpful. My main frustration is finding availability and taking advantage of my upgrade option. In the last five years I have never been able to receive an upgrade on any booking. They are telling me I need to get to the next level to increase my chances for this. Hence, the reason for considering this extra spend. My wife and I walked away from the table thinking this was not a wise decision.

I’m Gold and have had most of my reservations during high season upgraded. I had two rooms booked at Kingsgate during prime season and both got upgraded from a two bedroom to three. Those reservations were made within the discount window. The important thing to remember is, your individual results may vary. While being one level up would increase your chances, it’s not enough of a guarantee to justify $63,000. Obviously you know that because you walked away. Your chances of getting an upgraded depend on more then just your level. It depends on when and where you are traveling. Popular resorts during prime season are next to impossible to get upgraded. It also depends on what you are booking. Getting upgraded from a studio to a one bedroom is more likely then getting upgraded from a three bedroom to a four. The bigger the room, the harder it is to get upgraded. That’s why a silver owner may still have a chance of getting upgraded from a studio to a one bedroom at 30 days.

I think there are other benefits that make Gold more desirable. I only consider discounts and upgrades a bonus. I didn’t use that benefit as a major consideration for going Gold because it’s so unreliable. The unlimited reservation transaction credits, RARP, and the extended time to move points forward are major reasons I decided to go Gold. However, I would never spend $63k for that. I spent a little over half that for Gold. I have 292k retail bought points and the rest are PIC points. So I didn’t pay full price for Gold VIP, nor would I would ever pay full price for Gold or Platinum. In my opinion, they are not worth full price. I felt Gold was worth the $35k I spent on it. Your opinion may be different and that’s ok. VIP is perceived value, and if you feel the benefits are worth that much, and you can afford it, go for it. You do you.


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[r4rab]

1. Buying from the resorts is NEVER a good deal. Buy from telesales to get it cheaper.

2. They don’t. It’s a sales ploy. If you had deeded, they’d tell you that they want your deeded inventory badly.

3. Nope. See above.

PIC is the cheapest way to get VIP. If you buy 49,000 points from telesales, you can enroll a qualifying fixer or float week timeshare into PIC Plus. A 3 bedroom will get you 254,000 points. You can get that three bedroom from eBay. Just make sure you work with a telesales rep on what qualifies BEFORE you buy any Fixed or float week timeshares. You may want to wait until the deed is recorded for that week before you buy points to enroll it into PIC Plus, so you have proof you own it, in case they question it.

49,000 points will run you around $12,000. 254k+400k+49k= 703k permanent VIP Gold for about $12k

If you want to enroll 2 PIC (the maximum allowed), you’ll need to buy a minimum of 98,000 points. I know 105,000 runs on the $16k range.

254k+254k+98k+400k=1,006,000 permanent VIP Platinum for around $15k.

These numbers are assuming you get three bedroom PIC weeks. If you go with smaller units, you get less points.


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What is the telephone number to contact telesales?

 

[Richelle]

What is the telephone number to contact telesales?

I don’t know if there is a direct number. I only know of a couple reps. There are multiple offices, and each has owner accounts based on their last name. My account is in Redmond because my last name falls within their “alpha range”. If one of the reps you go to cannot help you, they can send you to someone who can. I’ll PM you the direct number of a rep and they can tell you if they can help you or if your account is handled by a different office and they will get you to someone at that office.


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[ecnetwrkr]

This is what I found in the Wyndham knowledge base regarding PIC Plus.
Important Information:

• The value of the allocated points will only count toward VIP status and do not receive vacation benefits.
• A maximum of two weeks can be enrolled per member.
• Weeks enrolled in PIC Plus are subject to an annual verification process.
• Membership in the PIC Express program expires after five (5) years. Upon expiration or termination, you will no longer receive the VIP benefits provided through this program and the VIP status level will be removed from your account.
• PIC Express contracts are non-transferable

So, if I’m reading this correctly, you cannot use the 254k (3-bedroom) points toward your existing Wyndham points total? Also, these points will expire in 5 years. So, if we upgrade our level due to this program, it’s temporary and we will return to our original point value and level after 5 years. Am I interpreting this correctly?

Thanks..

 

[bendadin]

I just got an offer for $93/ CWA. I declined.

 

[paxsarah]

This is what I found in the Wyndham knowledge base regarding PIC Plus.
Important Information:

• The value of the allocated points will only count toward VIP status and do not receive vacation benefits.
• A maximum of two weeks can be enrolled per member.
• Weeks enrolled in PIC Plus are subject to an annual verification process.
• Membership in the PIC Express program expires after five (5) years. Upon expiration or termination, you will no longer receive the VIP benefits provided through this program and the VIP status level will be removed from your account.
• PIC Express contracts are non-transferable

So, if I’m reading this correctly, you cannot use the 254k (3-bedroom) points toward your existing Wyndham points total? Also, these points will expire in 5 years. So, if we upgrade our level due to this program, it’s temporary and we will return to our original point value and level after 5 years. Am I interpreting this correctly?

Thanks..

Those bullet points are regarding PIC Express, not PIC Plus. PIC Plus is permanent, and the points can be used within the Wyndham system as long as you complete the deposit process each year.

 

[ecnetwrkr]

Ok. Thank you for clarifying that. Much appreciated. One other question, how is MF affected by this program. I.e. if I purchase 2 3-bedroom weeks to deposit into my Wyndham account and purchase the required 98k points (2*49k) how can I estimate my MF obligation?

 

[HitchHiker71]

Those bullet points are regarding PIC Express, not PIC Plus. PIC Plus is permanent, and the points can be used within the Wyndham system as long as you complete the deposit process each year.

PIC Plus is permanent only if you make a qualifying developer purchase when adding the PIC Plus contracts to your account. I just had a close friend of mine rescind a deal since he wants to add a couple of PIC properties and the director at the local resort (Wyndham Plantation) was telling my friend that he add PIC Plus contracts for a fee of $2395 for the 1st PIC Plus contract and $1995 for the 2nd PIC Plus contract. This got my attention since I’ve always known PIC Plus to require a developer purchase.

I came to find out that there is a fee based PIC Plus option that does not require a developer purchase, however this option is termed “Limited Membership” and expires after five years. No this is NOT PIC express, it is still PIC Plus, just has a five year expiration if don’t want to make a qualifying developer purchase when adding your PIC Plus contracts.

From what I’ve learned, the risk in going the fee based route with PIC Plus is that when your contract expires, your PIC properties that originally qualified may no longer qualify. I would still recommend going with the qualifying developer purchase route as doing so means your PIC is permanent unless the resort converts away from weeks based RCI integration.


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[Richelle]

Ok. Thank you for clarifying that. Much appreciated. One other question, how is MF affected by this program. I.e. if I purchase 2 3-bedroom weeks to deposit into my Wyndham account and purchase the required 98k points (2*49k) how can I estimate my MF obligation?

That’s not an easy question to answer. We have no idea which resorts your PIC weeks will be at. Every resort has their own MF set by the resort. It could be anything. Before buying the week, you have to confirm with the seller what the maintenance fees are. There is a program fee you have to pay to Wyndham on the PIC points. For a three bedroom it’s $152.40 per year or $12.70 a month, PER pic week. That will be lumped in with your Wyndham maintenance fee payment.

If you buy 98,000 CWA points, you’ll be paying an additional $645.82 a year or $53.81 per month. That’s JUST on the CWA points. That does not include your current points or the maintenance fees on the PIC weeks.

So at minimum, between the CWA points and the program fees on the PIC (assuming 2 three-bedrooms), you’re looking at an additional $950.62 a year or $79.22 a month (rounded up to the nearest penny). Again, that does not include the MF for the pic weeks. There is also an $89 fee (per PIC week) to exchange your PIC for points. If you do not exchange for points, you do not pay the $89 fee, but it will still count towards VIP.


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[raygo123]

1. Buying from the resorts is NEVER a good deal. Buy from telesales to get it cheaper.

2. They don’t. It’s a sales ploy. If you had deeded, they’d tell you that they want your deeded inventory badly.

3. Nope. See above.

PIC is the cheapest way to get VIP. If you buy 49,000 points from telesales, you can enroll a qualifying fixer or float week timeshare into PIC Plus. A 3 bedroom will get you 254,000 points. You can get that three bedroom from eBay. Just make sure you work with a telesales rep on what qualifies BEFORE you buy any Fixed or float week timeshares. You may want to wait until the deed is recorded for that week before you buy points to enroll it into PIC Plus, so you have proof you own it, in case they question it.

49,000 points will run you around $12,000. 254k+400k+49k= 703k permanent VIP Gold for about $12k

If you want to enroll 2 PIC (the maximum allowed), you’ll need to buy a minimum of 98,000 points. I know 105,000 runs on the $16k range.

254k+254k+98k+400k=1,006,000 permanent VIP Platinum for around $15k.

These numbers are assuming you get three bedroom PIC weeks. If you go with smaller units, you get less points.


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PICs, in my opinion are worth it only if you already own a qualified weeks or float. Here on tug, you will even be told your nuts for buying direct let alone using a PIC.

Your now not only buying direct points but incuring additional maintenance fees for something you really dont want in the first place. That one dollar purchase on ebay is going to cost you $500 to $1000 a month or more. For what? A few. Extra benefits you MAY get? Nah!

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[Richelle]

PICs, in my opinion are worth it only if you already own a qualified weeks or float. Here on tug, you will even be told your nuts for buying direct let alone using a PIC.

Your now not only buying direct points but incuring additional maintenance fees for something you really dont want in the first place. That one dollar purchase on ebay is going to cost you $500 to $1000 a month or more. For what? A few. Extra benefits you MAY get? Nah!

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$500 to $1,000 a month? What are you looking at? I have a $869 one and a $924 per year. That works out to $3.24 per 1,000 on the $869 one. The $924 is higher, but that belongs to another owner on our account who covers the fees on that one. Otherwise, I would have put a cheaper one in there.

I think you might be assuming the maintenance fees you are seeing are per month. In the majority of cases, they quote per year because the dues are paid yearly and not monthly.

For 3.24 per 1,000 (cheaper then Canterbury) I can use those points for bookings as well as the benefits. So I’m getting more points to use and VIP. So, not just a few benefits. Also, VIP is perceived value. You may not think it’s worth it, but plenty here do. When it comes to other people’s money, it’s their choice and I’m not one to tell them their nuts.

Speaking of which, I’ve not been told I’m nuts for buying retail. In fact, I don’t see that as often as I used to. As a matter of fact, there have been a few people, that preach about how crazy it is to buy retail, have come to me privately about getting VIP through PIC. So I find the people that preach about it the most, are not preaching to other people. They are trying to convince THEMSELVES it’s not worth it, when they actually want it. So on the rare occasion I see someone bash another about buying retail, I keep that in mind.

With all that said, if you cannot use the extra points, it might not be worth it, even with the benefits, but it’s not my call when it comes to another person’s money. You enjoy your resale. I’m glad it works for you. I’ll enjoy paying lower maintenance fees then you and getting VIP benefits that I use quite often.


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[paxsarah]

You enjoy your resale. I’m glad it works for you.

The weird thing is that Raygo is VIP, at least gold, and has a PIC - so I really don’t understand his criticism here. And I agree that I haven’t seen anyone here questioning the PIC path to VIP that you and several others have taken in the last year or two. It’s not for everyone, but you guys have gone about it in the smartest way possible.

 

[bogey21]

I have a couple of questions: 1) is this a good deal? 2) why does Wyndham want to purchase my CWA so badly? 3) Am I in the leverage seat since I own CWA?

Note that I'm not a Wyndham Owner so i won't comment on the deal precisely. But my take on these kind of offers is that the Company (Wyndham in your case) most of the time has only one motivation. They want your money and will do whatever they can to get you to part with it...

George

 

[IsaiahB]

They don't want your CWA. The salesperson wants a fat commission, so they've told you that you need to buy something.
Regardless of what you own, they will tell you that you should purchase something else.

 

[dgalati]

Note that I'm not a Wyndham Owner so i won't comment on the deal precisely. But my take on these kind of offers is that the Company (Wyndham in your case) most of the time has only one motivation. They want your money and will do whatever they can to get you to part with it...

George

Exactly the end game. Wyndham is not out to help anyone. Its all about $ as long as Wyndham is selling.

 

[Eric B]

$500 to $1,000 a month? What are you looking at? I have a $869 one and a $924 per year. That works out to $3.24 per 1,000 on the $869 one. The $924 is higher, but that belongs to another owner on our account who covers the fees on that one. Otherwise, I would have put a cheaper one in there.

I think you might be assuming the maintenance fees you are seeing are per month. In the majority of cases, they quote per year because the dues are paid yearly and not monthly.

For 3.24 per 1,000 (cheaper then Canterbury) I can use those points for bookings as well as the benefits. So I’m getting more points to use and VIP. So, not just a few benefits. Also, VIP is perceived value. You may not think it’s worth it, but plenty here do. When it comes to other people’s money, it’s their choice and I’m not one to tell them their nuts.

Speaking of which, I’ve not been told I’m nuts for buying retail. In fact, I don’t see that as often as I used to. As a matter of fact, there have been a few people, that preach about how crazy it is to buy retail, have come to me privately about getting VIP through PIC. So I find the people that preach about it the most, are not preaching to other people. They are trying to convince THEMSELVES it’s not worth it, when they actually want it. So on the rare occasion I see someone bash another about buying retail, I keep that in mind.

With all that said, if you cannot use the extra points, it might not be worth it, even with the benefits, but it’s not my call when it comes to another person’s money. You enjoy your resale. I’m glad it works for you. I’ll enjoy paying lower maintenance fees then you and getting VIP benefits that I use quite often.


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Well, I've got to quibble with the math, but agree with you in principle. The other thing I like about having PIC weeks is that I can choose to use them in Wyndham, exchange them in RCI/II, or just go where I own the weeks, so feel I've got my options set up to maximize my flexibility.

That being said, if your $869 one is a 3+ bedroom one, even assuming that the $869 includes the $152.40 program fee for the PIC contract and the $89 PIC fee, that gets you $869/254k = $3.42/k, not $3.24/k. If it doesn't include the $152.40 and the $89, it works out to $4.37/k. I've got a 4 BR PIC that has an MF of $855 that I value at $4.32/k if I PIC and use the week in Wyndham; it's at Massanutten so they give me an extra week for paying my MF early, which typically gets me another 20-21 TPU week to use that's good for 12-18 months. My other PIC is a 4 BR dual-affiliated one with RCI/II and has an MF of $875, so that's about $4.40/k if I use it in Wyndham, but I have the flexibility to use it elsewhere. I'm happy being at VIPG and using them without an exchange fee for Wyndham weeks. I compare the $4.32/k and the $4.40/k to the rates loaded with the program fees, so I figure I'm paying close to what I pay for my Bali Hai points and not that much over Canterbury. My PICs cost me way less than 254,000 points at Bali Hai would cost and have much greater flexibility, so I'm happy with my set up.

 

[Richelle]

Well, I've got to quibble with the math, but agree with you in principle. The other thing I like about having PIC weeks is that I can choose to use them in Wyndham, exchange them in RCI/II, or just go where I own the weeks, so feel I've got my options set up to maximize my flexibility.

That being said, if your $869 one is a 3+ bedroom one, even assuming that the $869 includes the $152.40 program fee for the PIC contract and the $89 PIC fee, that gets you $869/254k = $3.42/k, not $3.24/k. If it doesn't include the $152.40 and the $89, it works out to $4.37/k. I've got a 4 BR PIC that has an MF of $855 that I value at $4.32/k if I PIC and use the week in Wyndham; it's at Massanutten so they give me an extra week for paying my MF early, which typically gets me another 20-21 TPU week to use that's good for 12-18 months. My other PIC is a 4 BR dual-affiliated one with RCI/II and has an MF of $875, so that's about $4.40/k if I use it in Wyndham, but I have the flexibility to use it elsewhere. I'm happy being at VIPG and using them without an exchange fee for Wyndham weeks. I compare the $4.32/k and the $4.40/k to the rates loaded with the program fees, so I figure I'm paying close to what I pay for my Bali Hai points and not that much over Canterbury. My PICs cost me way less than 254,000 points at Bali Hai would cost and have much greater flexibility, so I'm happy with my set up.

I’ll give you the $89 fee since if I was using them as points, I would have to pay that. I don’t include the program fee because you pay the same program fee on all your points if you have over 259,000 points which VIPG does. 60 cents per 1,000. I always quote base rate. Most people here do as well. Bali Hai base rate is $3.66 per 1,000 without the program fee assuming UDI. The converted fixed weeks are higher. With the program fee, Bali hai UDI is still less then your PIC at $4.26 per 1,000 with program fee.


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[auntiepen]

I don’t know if there is a direct number. I only know of a couple reps. There are multiple offices, and each has owner accounts based on their last name. My account is in Redmond because my last name falls within their “alpha range”. If one of the reps you go to cannot help you, they can send you to someone who can. I’ll PM you the direct number of a rep and they can tell you if they can help you or if your account is handled by a different office and they will get you to someone at that office.


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Hi Richelle,
Do the telesales work for Wyndham? We are gold with Wyndham and thinking about upgrade to platinum. We are going to Canterbury in few weeks to see our options. It would be nice to have more options. I’m looking to buy more points online with Ebay too.
Thank you

 

[uscav8r]

Hi Richelle,
Do the telesales work for Wyndham? We are gold with Wyndham and thinking about upgrade to platinum. We are going to Canterbury in few weeks to see our options. It would be nice to have more options. I’m looking to buy more points online with Ebay too.
Thank you

Every Wyndham salesperson (except for resale) works for Wyndham. So, yes, telesales is part of Wyndham. The only difference is that they are based out of the corporate offices vice a resort.


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