Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[dioxide45]

The Pagosa Mountain Meadows BOD contracted with LemonJuice to facilitate the "reimagining" of the resort -- as cited in post #45.

Did this property have a heavy presence in the Fair Share Trust or was it just deeded week owners that had converted deeds?

 

[Floridaman76]

Lemonjuice Solutions is one company that can help assist an HOA. Another is TheMVPService. Though I would think if the properties will close down and sell off as whole ownership or something else, Wyndham will be the company that helps the HOA through the process. More money to Wyndham in legal and consulting fees. If they do renovations then Wyndham will probably be involved and make a profit off that. The costs for these services and fees ultimately come out of residuals that are paid. More money for Wyndham, less for the owners.

And the elephant in the room is Wyndham corporate is going to milk out as much money out of this process as they can to not have to make a payout to deedholers that dare defy them and not take their Access points in swap.

They likely have internal companies or wholly owned contractor divisions they can pay to do the work, it's all monopoly money at that point, and without anyone guarding the henhouse, and no competitive bidding process, these fees can be however high they want them to be so that, ooops, everything "balances out" and the payout is... nothing, or if they wanted to get devious, "in the red".

 

[CO skier]

Now that I think I understand UDI and CWA. How exactly does a converted fixed week work? Do you still own the actual deeded week and you just have an agreement with the club to where it can be used within the club points booking system? The Fair Share Vacation Trust doesn't actually own the deeded week?

Yes. Some language such as, "The ownership interest has been converted to Club Wyndham Plus® points in the equivalent amount of xxx,xxx points." is appended to the property description in the Club Wyndham contract (not the deed).

 

[CO skier]

Did this property have a heavy presence in the Fair Share Trust or was it just deeded week owners that had converted deeds?

Maybe I do not understand the question. Wyndham through some entiti(es) owned enough fixed-weeks, converted fixed weeks, and UDI deeds (if any at this resort; not all resorts have UDI), in combination with other fixed-week, converted fixed weeks and UDI deeded owners in the HOA, that the vote to terminate the timeshare exceeded the 67% hurdle to amend the HOA Declaration.

 

[CO skier]

Here is a post from ten years ago at about the time the Wyndham Ovation deed-back program started. Maybe it has been a constant flow since then.

Wyndham Paperwork bottleneck

Been waiting for points to be credited to my account for a resale purchase of a CWA contract. Wyndham says "four to six weeks from receipt of the paperwork". No deed etc... Just transfer of ownership of a participation in the Trust within the Wyndham system. They must have quite a bottleneck...

tugbbs.com

For the short term, the unofficial name of the new program probably is "Inundation".

 

[Jan M.]

This statement seems contradictory. You say you hold a UDI deed recorded at the county but later go on to say that the Fair Share Vacation Plan Trust holds all of the deeds. Can you clarify? For the latter are you referring to the deed to the actual real estate that makes up the property?

For the inventory in CWA the deeds are held by the Fair Share Vacation Plan Trust.

For owners with CWS/Club Wyndham Select points, those owners have deeds in their names. FSVP Trust has nothing to do with them.

 

[dioxide45]

For owners with CWS/Club Wyndham Select points, those owners have deeds in their names. FSVP Trust has nothing to do with them.

I think I get UDI now. They seem to be setup much like any other weeks based timeshare deed where one would own 1/52nd of a unit but rather they own something like 210,000 /17,743,000 ad noted in post #789. It would seem that in order for Club Wyndham to have created UDI, they needed to control entire units where Fair Share may just control individual weeks and UDI, thus partial units. What else is in the Fair Share Vacation trust other than inventory that they sell as CWA?

 

[CO skier]

It would seem that in order for Club Wyndham to have created UDI, they needed to control entire units where Fair Share may just control individual weeks and UDI, thus partial units.

There are some HOAs or entire Wyndham resorts that are 100% UDI. That is just how the property was developed. As pointed out by someone in an earlier post, Fair Share Trust does not "control" any units. It is just the governing trust for points in Club Wyndham.

 

[dioxide45]

There are some HOAs or entire Wyndham resorts that are 100% UDI. That is just how the property was developed. As pointed out by someone in an earlier post, Fair Share Trust does not "control" any units. It is just the governing trust for points in Club Wyndham.

Okay, perhaps I am going backward now and also missed that post. What trust are the deeds held in that are used for CWA?

 

[CO skier]

Okay, perhaps I am going backward now and also missed that post. What trust are the deeds held in that are used for CWA?

Maybe this glossary will help.

Glossary

Learn the timeshare lingo with Club Wyndham's online glossary. We want you to know the in's and out's of ownership.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

I do not know what you mean by control. Each owner "controls" their deed, even when it is assigned to the FairShare Vacation Plan Trust for use as Club Wyndham points. Owners with UDI deeded points have the same "control" as a fixed-week owner or a converted fixed week owner. The only difference is that the fixed-week owner does not have Club points to book time in resorts, they have just their fixed-week.

 

[dioxide45]

Maybe this glossary will help.

Glossary

Learn the timeshare lingo with Club Wyndham's online glossary. We want you to know the in's and out's of ownership.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

I do not know what you mean by control. Each owner "controls" their deed, even when it is assigned to the FairShare Vacation Plan Trust for use as Club Wyndham points. Owners with UDI deeded points have the same "control" as a fixed-week owner or a converted fixed week owner. The only difference is that the fixed-week owner does not have Club points to book time in resorts, they have just their fixed-week.

For CWA, it looks like the individual deeds are in First American Trust, a Federal Savings Bank, as trustee for the PTVO Owners Association, Inc. ("Association"), the property owners association for Club Wyndham Access owners.

 

[paxsarah]

Hmmm...that's not my current understanding...but I've been known to be wrong on occasion - just ask my wife LOL. I'll have to validate.

All I can say is this is from the CWA Public Offering Statement and seems to describe the ownership structure of the deeds in the trust:

And on the flip side, I'm completely certain that the Fairshare Vacation Plan Use Management Trust covers the entire Club Wyndham Plus suite of ownerships, not just Club Wyndham Access. I refer to its trust agreement regularly.

 

[dioxide45]

All I can say is this is from the CWA Public Offering Statement and seems to describe the ownership structure of the deeds in the trust:
View attachment 113225

And on the flip side, I'm completely certain that the Fairshare Vacation Plan Use Management Trust covers the entire Club Wyndham Plus suite of ownerships, not just Club Wyndham Access. I refer to its trust agreement regularly.

That was also the same as I posted above that came from the glossary of terms posted by @CO skier

Also based on this it does seem that CWA has its own trust that is separate from Fair Share Vacation Trust. Fair Share Vacation trust does not hold any real estate. The land trust holding deeds for PTVO Owners Association, Inc. holds the deeds that back the points in CWA.

 

[Lisa P]

I understand the "land that time forgot" locations like Villa Rica, The Glade, Fairfield Bay and the recently ravaged Lake Lure (why is New Bern not on this list?)...

...Here are some possible scenarios.

1. Resort will simply be dropped from the club.
2. HOA owners will vote to terminate the timeshare plan.
   1. Yes to terminate
   2. No to terminate

... #1 ...will be messy as the HOAs will need to find resort management companies. Probably VRI/Capital and then Wyndham needs to unload all the inventory they own or is owned by the Fair Share Trust.

Totally agree with both of these. Since we have a converted, fixed week at New Bern, I looked into it further. I was surprised to see that the CW website states that this resort is not managed by CW (no sections at all) and it doesn't even show the points chart anymore. Are they able to "terminate" the resort if they don't manage any of it?

I called the New Bern resort. They claimed they had received no info about the CW changes but suggested calling VRI/Capital. The rep answering the phone at VRI/Capital claimed the same. However, they suggested that since the converted, fixed week owners received CW points as a contractual agreement with CW, that CW was obligated to continue to honor it, despite no longer managing any of the resort. Also, if for some reason, they stopped honoring the contract, we would still own the fixed summer week. But can they just void the contract like that?

 

[dioxide45]

Totally agree with both of these. Since we have a converted, fixed week at New Bern, I looked into it further. I was surprised to see that the CW website states that this resort is not managed by CW (no sections at all) and it doesn't even show the points chart anymore. Are they able to "terminate" the resort if they don't manage any of it?

I called the New Bern resort. They claimed they had received no info about the CW changes but suggested calling VRI/Capital. The rep answering the phone at VRI/Capital claimed the same. However, they suggested that since the converted, fixed week owners received CW points as a contractual agreement with CW, that CW was obligated to continue to honor it, despite no longer managing any of the resort. Also, if for some reason, they stopped honoring the contract, we would still own the fixed summer week. But can they just void the contract like that?

You would probably need to go back and look at the contract to see what options either side has to terminate the contract.

That said, is New Bern even on the list? If the reason for removing some of these resorts is due to high fees that are likely associated to CWA, then I don't see how your property would impact it. Does CW own any units there or are they all just converted weeks? If they are all just converted weeks, and the trust that holds CWA inventory doesn't hold any units from your property then your property isn't negatively impacting the maintenance fees of CWA.

 

[CO skier]

Totally agree with both of these. Since we have a converted, fixed week at New Bern, I looked into it further. I was surprised to see that the CW website states that this resort is not managed by CW (no sections at all) and it doesn't even show the points chart anymore. Are they able to "terminate" the resort if they don't manage any of it?

I doubt is has been terminated. Are you still using your Club Wyndham points?

If the following is the correct resort, the latest directory has the points chart, lists the resort as part of CWA and notes that it is not managed by Wyndham Destinations, so VIP benefits do not apply.

 

[Lisa P]

That said, is New Bern even on the list? ... Does CW own any units there or are they all just converted weeks?

Club Wyndham Fairfield Harbour (New Bern) does have weeks that have been added to the CWA Resorts List but so far, it is not on the list of resorts in the OP (which) that suggests which resorts are (they're) at risk of disappearing from the CW portfolio. However, I agree with a prior post, that New Bern, with its high MF and low owner usage, ought to be on that "at risk" list.

 

[CO skier]

If they are all just converted weeks, and the trust that holds CWA inventory doesn't hold any units from your property then your property isn't negatively impacting the maintenance fees of CWA.

Your terminology is still confusing, despite the glossary. If any resort is listed as "Club Wyndham Access," there are "deeds" (not units) underlying the CWA inventory available at the resorts. The control of each of those deeds is the same for each deed owner, regardless of type of deed or whether it is part of CWA (owned by some Wyndham entity) or an individual.

 

[CO skier]

Club Wyndham Fairfield Harbour (New Bern) does have weeks that have been added to the CWA Resorts List but so far, it is not on the list of resorts in the OP, which suggests they're at risk of disappearing from the CW portfolio.

Not following the cause and effect logic here. The resorts on the list are at risk.

 

[dioxide45]

Your terminology is still confusing, despite the glossary. If any resort is listed as "Club Wyndham Access," there are "deeds" (not units) underlying the CWA inventory available at the resorts. The control of each of those deeds is the same for each deed owner, regardless of type of deed or whether it is part of CWA (owned by some Wyndham entity) or an individual.

I am not sure what you mean. If the deed is part of the PTVO Owners Association, Inc., then CW controls the voting rights to those deeds. If it is owned by an individual, the individual owner controls the vote, even if the deed is "converted"?

 

[Lisa P]

Sorry I wasn't clear, CO Skier, I've edited above to try again.

 

[dioxide45]

Sorry I wasn't clear, CO Skier, I've edited above to try again.

I would think if a property is part of Club Wyndham, and even in CWA, but isn't managed by Wyndham then Wyndham probably doesn't control enough of the total deeds at the property to try to force a closure. Thus why it may not be on the list. I would think if Wyndham had enough control they would have put themselves in place as the property manager?

 

[CO skier]

Sorry I wasn't clear, CO Skier, I've edited above to try again.

Ah, well, keep a low profile and do not volunteer your resort, unless you want to get out of your mf commitment for free.

 

[RENTER]

You must have missed the post about the lack of owner reservations/interest at the resorts in these areas. If a ski-in/ski-out timeshare cannot make the grade, what kind of resort and where should Wyndham build to attract owners' interest in highly seasonal and/or remote locations?

and I call BS on it. Only delusional whining snobs have no interest in them. They expect a 5-star resort at 3-star timeshare prices. They whine when maintenance fees go up. They expect prime resorts at prime time to be available when they search.

A good example of these snobs are those whining about Atlantic City and Skyline Tower. Now read the online reviews from those who stayed there. Expect for the elevators they love the experience. Same with all the owners who I have met there.

For the rest of us these resorts were just fine. We do not shiny and new. Just something with more space than a hotel room with a kitchen at a decent price and kept clean which they were.

We don't whine about not been able to find something at a prime resort because we knew we had these resorts to fall back on if we could not.

We also don't whine about the maintenance fees being higher than average because we know it is still cheaper than a hotel. Especially if were fools as some believe for buying VIP.

We also see that the parking lots are full at Shawnee and the parking garage full at Skyline.

We being 63 owners who have met and became friends at these resorts and are ready to walk away and when we do, we take $567,000 in annual maintenance fees with us. I am sure the snobs here will call that peanuts.

But we will be patient until the final plans are revealed.

Wyndham we were happy campers until you changed the rules on us. Before then we happily recommended your company. Have fun keeping the whining snobs happy.

 

[Arimaas]

I guess my perspective is, normally when a resort or HOA leaves the points system and is sold, owners are removed from the Club Wyndham points system, at some point maintenance fees end, and once the resort is sold the former owners receive their share of the proceeds. Stop here, do not pass GO, that's the end of it. I think that there's a Villa Rica owner earlier in the thread that shared that this is how it worked for them. Wyndham (and the HOAs) could have done this here and fulfilled their legal obligation.

But in this case, perhaps because of the scale/publicity(?), they're offering an alternate option, which is the swap into CWA. Only you can decide if that's a fair swap for you. To me it seems like a bonus for people who think it is fair, because it's not normally offered. As you say, giving up your equity is like paying for a timeshare again - at a severely reduced price. They are basically giving you the opportunity to buy a CWA ownership for whatever your share of the sale would have been, which is far lower than any discount you could get it for from telesales. So the question each owner will have to answer is whether they want that. Or you could just take your share for sticking it through to the end and that would be the end of it.

You make it seem like Wyndham is doing owner favors by swapping into CWA from their deeds at the closed resorts. Let's just not forget that if they are doing so, it is to benefit Wyndham, not the owners.

By taking the swap, Wyndham gets to keep the proceeds of your deed, first off (however small it may be). Secondly, CWA contracts are worthless. I can go to eBay and pickup as many as I want for nothing. Are there less points for Wyndham to sell directly at sales meetings because they are "giving" them away? Sure, but obviously they have more than enough to go around that they feel they can't sell their entire inventory. Thirdly, and most importantly, if Wyndham is "giving away" CWA points, this is no longer a reoccurring monthly debt Wyndham needs to carry. Someone else is picking up the tab for the MFs.

I'm losing a low MF/decent points contract in all of this. It is what it is. That's life. What I'm upset about is that we are 12 days away from August 2025. What happens to my points and reservations in January 2026? That's what I am waiting to find out. If the news of the sale didn't leak on social media/TUG, Wyndham wouldn't even be talking about this now And it is apparent from their patronizing release that "this is akin to an airline or cruise line getting rid of a plane or ship."

Please don't make it out like Wyndham is making some altruistic bonus move here for the owners. Like I said, if I wanted some CWA, I'll go to eBay and get them for nothing, not even a transfer fee. There's no "bonus" here. It's all business, and the house always wins.