Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[Double U]

I suspect that CWA MFs will either be stable or lower once all of the sell-off of legacy resorts is done. We're actually a bit encouraged that Club Wyn is doing this and being proactive. We accept that there may be some cost. Just hoping it doesn't hurt too mumuch.

I suspect this as well. CWA fees are destined to go down (IMO) and the equity (whatever it is) can be used to add newer and/or locations we never dreamed of!!!

 

[Floridaman76]

You must have missed the post about the lack of owner reservations/interest at the resorts in these areas. If a ski-in/ski-out timeshare cannot make the grade, what kind of resort and where should Wyndham build to attract owners' interest in highly seasonal and/or remote locations?

Maybe you didn't read the whole thread but apparently Bentley Brook has high demand pretty much year round, which refutes the "low demand" claim, at least at this resort.

It very well may have high maintenance costs, but sooner or later Bonnet Creek is going to need to be replaced.

La Belle Maison and Riverside Suites are housed in old, historic buildings in metro areas and I imagine are expensive to maintain, but have high demand.

Where is the line drawn?

I understand the "land that time forgot" locations like Villa Rica, The Glade, Fairfield Bay and the recently ravaged Lake Lure (why is New Bern not on this list?), but Shawnee Crestview is a relatively new construction, a baby compared to some of the other locations being axed. I get getting rid of Dupuy or River Village, but Crestview?

 

[Pennytx]

I am currently at Wyndham Patriots Place. We are not Wyndham owners, but we are happy to take the timeshare tour, would you all like us to and to ask ?s regarding this? Happy to help

 

[CO skier]

Maybe you didn't read the whole thread but apparently Bentley Brook has high demand pretty much year round, which refutes the "low demand" claim, at least at this resort.

I am sure Wyndham, the decision maker, has exact percentages for owner occupancy versus guest occupancy.

 

[CO skier]

I am currently at Wyndham Patriots Place. We are not Wyndham owners, but we are happy to take the timeshare tour, would you all like us to and to ask ?s regarding this? Happy to help

The salespeople will know only what they read on TUG, or they will just make something up.

 

[dioxide45]

I hold a UDI deed from National Harbor for example - and it's registered under my name in the local county clerk's office. Not sure what you're asking about though. The Fair Share Vacation Plan Trust holds ALL of the deeds for CWA - whether UDI or converted weeks or even DI deeds potentially.

This statement seems contradictory. You say you hold a UDI deed recorded at the county but later go on to say that the Fair Share Vacation Plan Trust holds all of the deeds. Can you clarify? For the latter are you referring to the deed to the actual real estate that makes up the property?

 

[rickandcindy23]

I've been an owner for well over 40 years. I am solid Founders level. I own well in excess of 2 million points. Most of my ownership is at these resorts. When you've owned as long as I have, it is likely your resort portfolio is going to contain these resorts. It also made me do some math. I spend a little under $24,000 (averaged, some years more, some less) a year annualy with Wyndham looking all the way back. Do the math, that puts me literally at 1 million spent. Surprised me, and probably should have monitored that more, but believe it or not, that doesn't bother me as it was by my choice. What does is that Wyndham doesn't take that into consideration, nor the length of time I've supported them. It's hard for newer owners to understand this, and for similar reasons I don't think T&L understands or appreciates this. Without us, you would not own what you do today. Nor would T&L.

Spend a million dollars with wyndham, and they will at some point involuntarily, take away what you have. This is a hostile takeover situation. And even though we're not SEC regulated, they still have to be fair with people. Especially when you're doing a takeover.

When I first learned of this, I examined the list and compared it to my ownership. Here's how it will affect me. On January 1, I will own 28K points. No, I didn't type that wrong. You think your account is going to suffer???

If your bank account went from over 2 million to 28K and you were offered pennies on the dollar, how would you feel right now? Think about it. Million"s" wiped out overnight without warning. How would you feel?

It's true, I am just a small subset of owners. I'm so sick and tired of that. But it's actually very true because anyone who has been as loyal for 43 years is going to be in a small subset. In most businesses, that would mean something. You would be considered an asset, not a liability

I am so sorry. That stinks.

I have been somewhat following this thread and have no idea what resorts are definitely being dropped by Wyndham.

 

[paxsarah]

I don't disagree with what is happening. I, have owned these for a long time ALONG WITH T&L. We both have felt the pains. I believe "someone " has spent millions on this endeavor, and I applaud them.

I hope "like for like" means exactly that. I guess it may help if I explain how it worked early on.

I bought a great fixed week at one time. Unlike many, I read all the documents, covenants, by-laws, etc. before buying. I always bought "red" weeks (we called them red, white, and blue weeks. Mine were red weeks and I paid more for them because they were the best) Still, I knew that when it came down to it, in the end (because there was a sunset provision in the governing documents) we all get out exactly the same regardless of purchase value being red, white or blue. And that's all I expect now. (Which will be less than what I paid) We just spent millions fixing the place up. BRAVO! It makes them worth more! All I want from the deeded part is my percentage as spelled out in the founding documents. And yes, that is an option that I may have and there is no argument against that or the process. Folks, I understand this may be my choice and accept it. The underlying documents are clear! However, with a liquidation, my current deed actually does have residual value, no matter how little it turns out to be. CWA right of ownership will never have residual value. Is that a fair swap? I don't think I'm good at explaining this, maybe someone who sees my point can give guidance. I'm not interested in getting what I originally paid in a liquidation,... not only would that violate the underlying documents, it's also unfair to Wyndham, (I bought a timeshare, Duh! I realize that and have always expected less in return!) just my share for sticking through this to the end. And the ability to continue on with a lesser valued underlying ownership. But if I continue, in essence, giving up my equity is like paying for my ownership again. Maybe you see that as unfair? Maybe you see this as fair since a liquidation is involved? Maybe this is already the plan?

Regarding my points, there were none back in those days. I had to pay Wyndham $2,395 (alot back then) for that deed to join the trust. Separate transactions, (years apart). So I'm not asking for anything free or that I didn't buy. Just the points option that I also paid for at one time. Is that fair?

My MF will be higher, but I accept that, as (which has already been reported) CWA gives me 13 month ARP, and I may be able to find larger rooms and keep us all together instead of multiple rooms! An offer I can't refuse! Good way to get owners on board!

I'm on board with what is going on! And am aware of the rumored options. Ownerships at these properties are all complicated ownerships, and I believe a partial reason this is happening is to get rid of this nonsense and simplify the programming, budgeting, and all the work to manage fixed weeks. It's will make Iife a whole lot easier for T&L, and I'm on board with them, I hope!

Correct. Not all deeds are worthless. Only the points are.

I guess my perspective is, normally when a resort or HOA leaves the points system and is sold, owners are removed from the Club Wyndham points system, at some point maintenance fees end, and once the resort is sold the former owners receive their share of the proceeds. Stop here, do not pass GO, that's the end of it. I think that there's a Villa Rica owner earlier in the thread that shared that this is how it worked for them. Wyndham (and the HOAs) could have done this here and fulfilled their legal obligation.

But in this case, perhaps because of the scale/publicity(?), they're offering an alternate option, which is the swap into CWA. Only you can decide if that's a fair swap for you. To me it seems like a bonus for people who think it is fair, because it's not normally offered. As you say, giving up your equity is like paying for a timeshare again - at a severely reduced price. They are basically giving you the opportunity to buy a CWA ownership for whatever your share of the sale would have been, which is far lower than any discount you could get it for from telesales. So the question each owner will have to answer is whether they want that. Or you could just take your share for sticking it through to the end and that would be the end of it.

 

[paxsarah]

This statement seems contradictory. You say you hold a UDI deed recorded at the county but later go on to say that the Fair Share Vacation Plan Trust holds all of the deeds. Can you clarify? For the latter are you referring to the deed to the actual real estate that makes up the property?

I think maybe in this conversation there's been some conflation about deeds that are part of Club Wyndham Access and deeds that are owned by individual owners.

I also think that the trust that holds the CWA deeds is actually the ClubWyndham Access Vacation Ownership Plan Trust, not the Fairshare Vacation Plan Trust (which is the trust that contains the entire Club Wyndham points program, CWA, Select, etc. - not just CWA).

 

[rickandcindy23]

The number of contracts we had a Fairfield Bay, Orlando International, Patriot's Place, Ocean Ridge, etc., and we could have just gotten out of them without paying $399 transfer fee + closing costs.

Some day, I see Wyndham dumping just about everything they didn't develop.

 

[HitchHiker71]

This statement seems contradictory. You say you hold a UDI deed recorded at the county but later go on to say that the Fair Share Vacation Plan Trust holds all of the deeds. Can you clarify? For the latter are you referring to the deed to the actual real estate that makes up the property?

For CWA the Fair Share Vacation Plan Trust holds all of the deeds. CWA doesn't hold any deeds. This is actually why it's called "Access" - it's a play on words - CWA is "accessing" the deeds held in the Fair Share Vacation Plan Trust, via the beneficial ownership contracts sold. CWA is basically RTU.

 

[dioxide45]

I think maybe in this conversation there's been some conflation about deeds that are part of Club Wyndham Access and deeds that are owned by individual owners.

I also think that the trust that holds the CWA deeds is actually the ClubWyndham Access Vacation Ownership Plan Trust, not the Fairshare Vacation Plan Trust (which is the trust that contains the entire Club Wyndham points program, CWA, Select, etc. - not just CWA).

I am not really asking about CWA. I understand now how that works. I am asking about UDI properties. If you own UDI, I suspect you have deeded UDI points? But that is probably just some form of beneficial interest in the Fair Share Trust? There are then underlying deeded weeks or deeded units that also have deeds and those are in Fare Share Trust?

 

[HitchHiker71]

I think maybe in this conversation there's been some conflation about deeds that are part of Club Wyndham Access and deeds that are owned by individual owners.

I also think that the trust that holds the CWA deeds is actually the ClubWyndham Access Vacation Ownership Plan Trust, not the Fairshare Vacation Plan Trust (which is the trust that contains the entire Club Wyndham points program, CWA, Select, etc. - not just CWA).

Hmmm...that's not my current understanding...but I've been known to be wrong on occasion - just ask my wife LOL. I'll have to validate.

 

[CO skier]

I am not really asking about CWA. I understand now how that works. I am asking about UDI properties. If you own UDI, I suspect you have deeded UDI points? But that is probably just some form of beneficial interest in the Fair Share Trust? There are then underlying deeded weeks or deeded units that also have deeds and those are in Fare Share Trust?

This is how a typical UDI deed reads (hopefully that clarifies, rather than adding to the confusion):

"A 210,000 /17,743,000 undivided fee simple absolute interest in Units 7829-7830 in Building 15 as tenants in common with the other undivided interest owners of said building of Peregrine Townhouses Phase IV,"

When an owner surrenders a UDI deed through Certified Exit, it is functionally the same as a converted fixed-week deed underlying CWA points, or Wyndham could resell that deed (non-CWA).

 

[comicbookman]

I am not really asking about CWA. I understand now how that works. I am asking about UDI properties. If you own UDI, I suspect you have deeded UDI points? But that is probably just some form of beneficial interest in the Fair Share Trust? There are then underlying deeded weeks or deeded units that also have deeds and those are in Fare Share Trust?

No, you have a deed, but the property is described as x out of y total points representing the timeshare resort ( it has a more detailed description, but it boils down to this). The trust is responsible for managing the interaction (exchanging) of these points.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The endgame for these resorts is what? If you own a deed, what in the world will you own? Not points anymore because Wyndham walked away. You own at that resort and now have to pay fees to whom? This is going to be a disaster. Fairfield Bay will close down completely.

 

[dioxide45]

The endgame for these resorts is what? If you own a deed, what in the world will you own? Not points anymore because Wyndham walked away. You own at that resort and now have to pay fees to whom? This is going to be a disaster. Fairfield Bay will close down completely.

It depends on the resort. Here are some possible scenarios.

1. Resort will simply be dropped from the club.
2. HOA owners will vote to terminate the timeshare plan.
   1. Yes to terminate
   2. No to terminate

In the case of #1, you will own a deeded week at the resort. Use your week or exchange it through an affiliated exchange company. The HOA will need to find a new property management company. Wyndham will need to figure out what to do with unsold inventory and inventory held by their trusts.

In the case of #2.1. The resort as a timeshare goes away. It would either be converted to whole ownership condos and sold individually or sold to another developer entity to do with it as they want.

For #2.2. It would likely revert back to #1. Wyndham doesn't want it, they tried to terminate it as a timeshare but it didn't work.

#2.1 is the cleanest route. The timeshare plan just goes away and everything is sold regardless if it is owed by an individual owner or Wyndham.

I see #2.1 ultimatly going the route of #1 and will be messy as the HOAs will need to find resort management companies. Probably VRI/Capital and then Wyndham needs to unload all the inventory they own or is owned by the Fair Share Trust.

 

[CO skier]

The endgame for these resorts is what? If you own a deed, what in the world will you own? Not points anymore because Wyndham walked away. You own at that resort and now have to pay fees to whom? This is going to be a disaster. Fairfield Bay will close down completely.

See posts #26 and #45 for one possible endgame.

 

[Roger830]

It depends on the resort. Here are some possible scenarios.

1. Resort will simply be dropped from the club.
2. HOA owners will vote to terminate the timeshare plan.
   1. Yes to terminate
   2. No to terminate

In the case of #1, you will own a deeded week at the resort. Use your week or exchange it through an affiliated exchange company. The HOA will need to find a new property management company. Wyndham will need to figure out what to do with unsold inventory and inventory held by their trusts.

In the case of #2.1. The resort as a timeshare goes away. It would either be converted to whole ownership condos and sold individually or sold to another developer entity to do with it as they want.

For #2.2. It would likely revert back to #1. Wyndham doesn't want it, they tried to terminate it as a timeshare but it didn't work.

#2.1 is the cleanest route. The timeshare plan just goes away and everything is sold regardless if it is owed by an individual owner or Wyndham.

I see #2.1 ultimatly going the route of #1 and will be messy as the HOAs will need to find resort management companies. Probably VRI/Capital and then Wyndham needs to unload all the inventory they own or is owned by the Fair Share Trust.

If Wyndham owns at least 67% of the ownership, then it's a simple #2.1. Wyndham votes to terminate.

Then Wyndham decides what to do with the property.

 

[rickandcindy23]

It depends on the resort. Here are some possible scenarios.

1. Resort will simply be dropped from the club.
2. HOA owners will vote to terminate the timeshare plan.
   1. Yes to terminate
   2. No to terminate

In the case of #1, you will own a deeded week at the resort. Use your week or exchange it through an affiliated exchange company. The HOA will need to find a new property management company. Wyndham will need to figure out what to do with unsold inventory and inventory held by their trusts.

In the case of #2.1. The resort as a timeshare goes away. It would either be converted to whole ownership condos and sold individually or sold to another developer entity to do with it as they want.

For #2.2. It would likely revert back to #1. Wyndham doesn't want it, they tried to terminate it as a timeshare but it didn't work.

#2.1 is the cleanest route. The timeshare plan just goes away and everything is sold regardless if it is owed by an individual owner or Wyndham.

I see #2.1 ultimatly going the route of #1 and will be messy as the HOAs will need to find resort management companies. Probably VRI/Capital and then Wyndham needs to unload all the inventory they own or is owned by the Fair Share Trust.

Yep.

 

[Double U]

If you want to imagine possibilities, view this

lemonjuicesolutions.com/resorts-reimagined/

 

[dioxide45]

Now that I think I understand UDI and CWA. How exactly does a converted fixed week work? Do you still own the actual deeded week and you just have an agreement with the club to where it can be used within the club points booking system? The Fair Share Vacation Trust doesn't actually own the deeded week?

 

[CO skier]

If Wyndham owns at least 67% of the ownership, then it's a simple #2.1. Wyndham votes to terminate.

Then Wyndham decides what do with the property.

There is still a vote of the owners to "decide what to do with the property," but with Wyndham "having the votes in the bag" ... Wyndham decides.

 

[dioxide45]

If you want to imagine possibilities, view this

lemonjuicesolutions.com/resorts-reimagined/

Lemonjuice Solutions is one company that can help assist an HOA. Another is TheMVPService. Though I would think if the properties will close down and sell off as whole ownership or something else, Wyndham will be the company that helps the HOA through the process. More money to Wyndham in legal and consulting fees. If they do renovations then Wyndham will probably be involved and make a profit off that. The costs for these services and fees ultimately come out of residuals that are paid. More money for Wyndham, less for the owners.

If a property just leaves the club, then it needs to find another resort management company.

 

[CO skier]

Lemonjuice Solutions is one company that can help assist an HOA. Another is TheMVPService. Though I would think if the properties will close down and sell off as whole ownership or something else, Wyndham will be the company that helps the HOA through the process. More money to Wyndham in legal and consulting fees.

The Pagosa Mountain Meadows BOD contracted with LemonJuice to facilitate the "reimagining" of the resort -- as cited in post #45.