Wyndham "Certified Exit" has failed because Wyndham tells me someone else is on my deed

[blitz06]

I have been trying to certify exit a resale contract for my Kona Hawaii timeshare.
Wyndham has told me "Original Deed not properly conveyed, title still held by original owners"
But, I didn't originally buy the contract from the "original owners"... It was bought from someone else using a timeshare broker.
Anyone ever run into this problem? If so, how did you fix it? I don't know the original owners - I've looked them up and they live in Canada!
Any help/suggestions would be great.
Thanks!

 

[paxsarah]

I would ask Wyndham how they managed to transfer the contract to you if the title was never properly transferred to you from the original owners. Shouldn't that stop a resale transfer in its tracks?

And I would also look up the deed at the county. Every county is different - some have everything online for free, some let you search online but have to pay to see a deed, etc., or even make you request the deed by mail or in person. But I would definitely track down the information at the county level.

 

[blitz06]

I have contacted Wyndham about the transfer and was told I have to fix the problem... I asked about how this even was transferred and they didn't have an answer...
I have all the "Interval Conveyance Deeds" from the State of Hawaii bureau of conveyances. It all looks fine to me. The only missing item is a date when the deed takes effect on the conveyance deed from the original owners to the owners I bought from. Can't imagine this would screw things up...

 

[tschwa2]

Someone else had a similar problem and I am not sure how it was resolved. Wyndham doesn't do a full title search to see if there are defects when doing a transfer. They do one if you are giving it back because they can't legally sell if the title isn't clean and has defects.

Unfortunately Wyndham sees this as your problem. You either need figure out what the problem is and fix it, which probably will involve tracking down the old owners and getting them to sign off on a corrected deed or you could try to sell it to someone else and hope they don't catch the problem and likely they would be able to use it just as you had and wouldn't know about it until they try to sell or dispose of it, if at all. I am not sure if you should sell without disclosing that you know there is a defect in the title. Once it goes through more owners it will be even harder to correct.

Most people don't do full title searches or pay for title insurance because the value of the timeshare is so low, but these are the kinds of things that would be caught with a full title search.

And while you might not think something is enough to screw things up, legally small errors can be enough.

Hopefully you can get it fixed without too much expense.

 

[blitz06]

Thanks for the info - I won't be giving this problem to anyone else...
I have sent a lengthy email to the Bureau of Conveyances in Hawaii to try and find out what I can do.
The next step is to try and call them.

 

[blitz06]

Here's the Bureau of Conveyances response:

"Please consult with a title company or attorney’s office, we are a recording office and cannot comment on legal matters."

ugh

 

[claraj]

Is this an example where title insurance would come into play?

 

[blitz06]

Next stop is the title company.
Fortunately, they (Timeshare Closing Services, Inc.) did both Escrows.
We'll see what their response will be...

 

[dioxide45]

Was the mistake on title done on the transfer to you or was it from a prious owner to another previous owner? Title companies won't usually do a title search unless you obtain title insurance. Mistakes like this can and do happen and can be very expensive to fix. More expensive to fix if the prior owner is deceased or unwilling to help. It may require Quiet Title which can be a very expensive process. An option would be to stop paying and let Wyndham take foreclosure action which would require them to do the cleanup process in order for the HOA to take clean title through foreclosure.

 

[blitz06]

Problem exists, I believe, with the original owners to the owners I bought from.
I considered the "stop payment", but I have other timeshares with Wyndham. And, I'm sure my credit might get messed up.
I'll look into a "Quiet Title".
Thanks for the info.

 

[dioxide45]

Problem exists, I believe, with the original owners to the owners I bought from.
I considered the "stop payment", but I have other timeshares with Wyndham. And, I'm sure my credit might get messed up.
I'll look into a "Quiet Title".
Thanks for the info.

Quiet title will likely require an attorney to assist with. I would start by going back to the closing company that closed both deals. If they are the same company, then that makes it a little easier. The main issue will be the willingness of the prior owners to help fix it. Perhaps that prior owner should get added back to Wyndham's system and be on the hook if you were to stop paying. That would get some attention real fast.

 

[bnoble]

I’d probably reach out to a lawyer in Hawaii County.

 

[TUGBrian]

id print their response and include it in the envelope with your non check for 2024 maintenance fees!

"Original Deed not properly conveyed, title still held by original owners" =D

 

[davidvel]

Next stop is the title company.
Fortunately, they (Timeshare Closing Services, Inc.) did both Escrows.
We'll see what their response will be...

If you didn't buy title insurance then they are not acting as a title company but only an escrow or closing company. If they handled both escrows and something is screwed up due to their error, this is on them and they need to step up and fix it at THEIR expense.

I would also loop in the broker that handled the deal. If there is a defect in title as Wyndham states, hopefully the original owner is alive and cooperative. If not, as others note, you likely will have to file a lawsuit to quiet title (which means it would placed in your name if you are entitled to this.) If you are deeding it back, it likely will cost more then the TS is worth.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I have been trying to certify exit a resale contract for my Kona Hawaii timeshare.
Wyndham has told me "Original Deed not properly conveyed, title still held by original owners"
But, I didn't originally buy the contract from the "original owners"... It was bought from someone else using a timeshare broker.
Anyone ever run into this problem? If so, how did you fix it? I don't know the original owners - I've looked them up and they live in Canada!
Any help/suggestions would be great.
Thanks!

My response would be: “That’s great news! Since you have just informed me I am not legally the owner, I will stop paying maintenance fees on this resort I do not own, and you can go after the original owner.”

 

[Sandi Bo]

OY, what a nightmare. Sorry @blitz06 that you are going through this. I wonder it would help at all to contact michael brown's office - they've come through in the past. michael.brown@wyn.com

 

[blitz06]

Thank you for the suggestion of Michael Brown's office - email has been sent.
Also, since we began the "Certified Exit", we are no longer invited to "Owner updates".
We still own a developer property, a resale property and 2 PICs...
The customer service reps were of no help when we called.
Hopefully, Mr Brown's office will come through.

 

[davidvel]

My response would be: “That’s great news! Since you have just informed me I am not legally the owner, I will stop paying maintenance fees on this resort I do not own, and you can go after the original owner.”

Great idea!

 

[SteveinHNL]

Did you buy this TS through a real estate broker? Who prepared the deed? I would start by checking with either or both or those. The broker and the lawyer who prepared the deed can likely fix this, or their E&O carriers can.

 

[dioxide45]

I honestly don't know what the CEOs office will do or can do. Title is clouded and needs to be cleared. They can't do it. They may be able to offer some advice, but they usually don't want to get involved in such issues.

 

[Sandi Bo]

So sorry you are going through this @blitz06, truly everyone's worst nightmare. I always figured certified exit would get me (or whomever ends up with this mess) an easy out. Learning that isn't necessarily true (between this post and @rickandcindy23's experiences). Thanks for posting, please keep us updated.