Windows. Who knew?

[joestein]

We are looking to replace all the windows in our new house. They are 20 YO builder grade windows. Many of the sashes are bowed. I dont think the previous owners ever opened the windows.

I believe they are vinyl windows (thought not 100% sure). Apparently, you can't replace a vinyl window with a replacement window. You need to install a new construction window.

Who knew?

 

[presley]

What in the world? I never heard such a thing. I have put in vinyl windows in my current home and my previous home. No one ever told us that we couldn't replace them later. I kind of think it's either baloney or there's just something in particular wrong with your windows

 

[Talent312]

I'm surprised, but maybe it's a framing issue.

Our house is weird... It has 3 windows -- total.
There were 10 sliding glass doors we replaced w-French doors @$1000 each.
When we replaced a window, it had to be custom ordered... Talk about $$.
If your windows are standard, be grateful.
.

 

[Conan]

Here’s what I’ve learned in the last couple of years, while doing nothing yet to replace/repair our windows.

The easy fix is insert-type windows, sold as Anderson Renewal and similar products from Marvin, Pella, and so forth. But because they slot into your existing frames, you need not-rotted and reasonably sound frames. And all your windows (sashes) will end up about an inch shorter and an inch narrower than before. So unless you do them all you’ll have mismatched sizes.

The alternative is to tear out your windows, frames and all. Anderson, Marvin, Pella, etc. charge about the same as for their insert lines, but you’ll have inside trim, sills, and framing to repair and repaint that the insert route would have left intact.

Choosing Replacement Windows - Consumer Reports

Learn how to choose replacement windows for your home with advice on window types, installation, features and brands including Andersen, Marvin, and Pella.

www.consumerreports.org

 

[dougp26364]

We are looking to replace all the windows in our new house. They are 20 YO builder grade windows. Many of the sashes are bowed. I dont think the previous owners ever opened the windows.

I believe they are vinyl windows (thought not 100% sure). Apparently, you can't replace a vinyl window with a replacement window. You need to install a new construction window.

Who knew?

I think I’m going to have to call BS on this. Our home was built in 1998 and we moved in Jan of 1999. We’ve replaced ALL of our upstairs builder grade windows with much higher quality replacement windows. I’m not sure who you spoke with, but I’d be talking with someone else.

 

[joestein]

I wish that it was BS. I don't think it is, as I have done some research. Everything I have found points to this. This blurb below is from the Marvin Window website. One of the better window manufacturers.

Tell me more: When you choose insert window replacement, new windows are installed within the existing window frame. Also known as “frame-in-frame replacement” or a “pocket window,” it’s an option when your existing wood or aluminum window frames are structurally sound and you want to preserve existing interior and exterior trim. The existing sash, operating hardware and covers are removed and the new window unit is inserted into the old frame where it is anchored, insulated and sealed.

Because existing trim and siding are not disturbed, this is generally a quicker installation and typically a lower cost replacement solution. An insert window is a great option when you’re happy with the size, shape and operating style of your existing window.

Even relatively new vinyl windows—less than ten years old—can suffer from seal failures and degradation from exposure to weather, and may need to be replaced. Note that insert replacement is usually not an option when replacing vinyl windows since the vinyl frames commonly lack the structure to support a quality and long-lasting replacement solution.

I have 3 (possibly 4) window contractors coming on Friday:

Pella
Renewal by Andersen
Ace Improvements (Local contractor - been around a long time - They tell me they have replaced the windows in many of the homes in my development - I think they take the windows out from the outside - remove the siding and reinstall)
And another local contractor - if they call me back with an appointment.

I am curious to see what they all say.

Joe

 

[wackymother]

I wish that it was BS. I don't think it is, as I have done some research. Everything I have found points to this. This blurb below is from the Marvin Window website. One of the better window manufacturers.

Tell me more: When you choose insert window replacement, new windows are installed within the existing window frame. Also known as “frame-in-frame replacement” or a “pocket window,” it’s an option when your existing wood or aluminum window frames are structurally sound and you want to preserve existing interior and exterior trim. The existing sash, operating hardware and covers are removed and the new window unit is inserted into the old frame where it is anchored, insulated and sealed.

Because existing trim and siding are not disturbed, this is generally a quicker installation and typically a lower cost replacement solution. An insert window is a great option when you’re happy with the size, shape and operating style of your existing window.

Even relatively new vinyl windows—less than ten years old—can suffer from seal failures and degradation from exposure to weather, and may need to be replaced. Note that insert replacement is usually not an option when replacing vinyl windows since the vinyl frames commonly lack the structure to support a quality and long-lasting replacement solution.

I have 3 (possibly 4) window contractors coming on Friday:

Pella
Renewal by Andersen
Ace Improvements (Local contractor - been around a long time - They tell me they have replaced the windows in many of the homes in my development - I think they take the windows out from the outside - remove the siding and reinstall)
And another local contractor - if they call me back with an appointment.

I am curious to see what they all say.

Joe

I'm curious too! We have replaced a couple of windows, but I can't really remember how it worked. Our fantastic handyman ordered them individually from Lowe's and installed them. I do think he removed everything and the new window went in with its own frame and all. I remember that it was really disturbing to have this big hole in the side of the house.

 

[dougp26364]

I think I see your problem and why I didn’t have a problem. If the original contractor didn’t build in wood window framing, but just stick a vinyl window in a hole, there may be nothing there to support the new windows. Sort of like building a house that didn’t require load bearing beams.

In our case we had window frames, so, if my thinking is correct, there was everything necessary for the new windows to be installed. The one exception was the domed window that had developed a leak. We decided to replace it with a regular square window. That one took some more effort and work.

 

[joestein]

I think that wood and aluminum windows have strong frames that the replacement window can be mounted to. I think that Vinyl frames are not sturdy enough to mount the replacement window in.

But we will see what the contractors say on Friday.

 

[Glynda]

Glad we only have wood windows in one house and aluminum in another! However, we just bought four sets of Marvin French doors. They are aluminum clad over wood outside, wood inside, insulated, tinted and have hurricane glass. They are not Marvin's highest grade yet our contractor's price on just the doors was $23,000. Another quote on them was even higher. On top of that, the first quote we got to just install them was $35,000! The second was $50,000!!!! Either those guys didn't really need or want the work or that's what happens when you live in historic Charleston (even though they are replacing existing French doors in a 1990's addition).

 

[pittle]

We recently replaced 2 large west facing windows with Renewal by Andersen. These are much more energy efficient. When you live in AZ, that is important - especially for west facing windows!

Our house was built in 2006. One of the windows in our office had lost its seal and was getting cloudy. We looked at 2 companies. We chose Andersen because they had frames that matched the color of our other windows on not only our house but others in the neighborhood. Since these are on the front of our house, we decided to do both of the two huge windows so they would match and did the narrow non-opening one by the front door too because we decided not to have the Prairie style inserts that our others had. The cost was $650 per window more for those inserts, so we decided we could live without those.

One large window had a tiny nick in the frame when they brought it and they came out last week and replaced the entire 3 panel window. The installation guy saw that when they were unloading them from the truck on original installation. You had to be looking for it to see it.

Ours cost more than double what the vinyl ones would have. But, with the vinyl windows the frame was larger making the window glass smaller and they only had tan or white frames. so they would not match all the other windows in the house and that was a big deal for me.

 

[joestein]

We had 3 estimators out on Friday. We had to cancel Andersen due to a last minute run to that attorney in connection with the sale of our home (we own 2 homes at the moment - Hopefully we sell our home this week)

I have 34 windows (including 4 smallish basement sliders) and a standard slider.

The 2 local guys haven't given us the final estimate - but one mentioned $950 a window/installed for Starmark EVO - a composite window - probably one of the best windows you can buy. The other mentioned $750 - for Soft-lite Imperial Elite (a pretty good vinyl window - but as good as the Starmark).

Pella gave me an estimate of $56K to replace all. That is with the series 250 vinyl window. Add $20K for lifestyle - which is the aluminum wrapped wood windows - which is what they are known for. The 250 series is so-so. The 350 series is a much higher quality window - but they just stopped making it in May.

So far - I am favoring the starmark. The contractor has replaced windows on a bunch of houses in my development and is familiar with the construction. The other guy didn't impress me. I still have to research them both online.

All of the contractors mentioned that we will need a new construction window vs a replacement window.

Joe

 

[clifffaith]

Yowza! "Good thing you're rich". "Good thing we're rich (not)" is what we say when something expensive comes up. Really means "we wish we didn't have to pay for this, but we can finagle the money one way or another, so I guess we must be rich since we can pay for this". Usually followed by "I guess we need to have a can of soup for dinner tonight"!

 

[Talent312]

Ah, the joys of home ownership.
As for the $$, you can't take it with you (AFAIK).

--------------------------
BTW, there's an old joke which suggests you say, "How nice!"

My husband loves me so much, he bought me a Mercedes... "How nice!"
My husband loves me so much, he bought me a big diamond... "How nice!"
My husband loves me so much, he sent me to charm school... "Huh?"
In charm school, they taught me to say, "How nice." instead of "F*k me."

.