What was I thinking? Owners Update

[bamasteve]

Still calming down.

We are Wyndham Rio Mar in Puerto Rico. We checked in and they pushed hard for us to atttend an owners update. I said no becuase the last one we went to about 10 years ago was so awful. But they pushed and offered to pay for my valet parking. Wrong.

They said it would be low key. Wrong.
The Salesman was selling hard, he wanted to sell me about 68K points for about $15K. Said it would allow me to make this Margaritaville our home resort. And that soon our access to Margaritaville would be restricted. He starts selling rental income form the Rio Property. That I can rent it out each year through Wyndham. I would make money.

I know I come across as an easy going guy. I listened patiently. But after nicely saying that we were happy with what we had - I just had to get rude and say Nooooooooo and explain that we were now offened with his constant baddgering and countering of our financial replies. He would not just take no for an answer. We walked out on him. Went to the front desk and even complained.

The resort is wonderful. The sales staff is awful.

Is it even worth complaining to Wyndham? I at least hope to give feedback when a survey comes.

I should have listened to the wife and said we aren't doing an update.

 

[jp10558]

Yea, the one place I had to be rude so far was Bay Club II this Feb when I just kept saying no for like 10 minutes on check-in. Spend the time telling the check in person no - it saves time overall IMO.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Still calming down.

We are Wyndham Rio Mar in Puerto Rico. We checked in and they pushed hard for us to atttend an owners update. I said no becuase the last one we went to about 10 years ago was so awful. But they pushed and offered to pay for my valet parking. Wrong.

They said it would be low key. Wrong.
The Salesman was selling hard, he wanted to sell me about 68K points for about $15K. Said it would allow me to make this Margaritaville our home resort. And that soon our access to Margaritaville would be restricted. He starts selling rental income form the Rio Property. That I can rent it out each year through Wyndham. I would make money.

I know I come across as an easy going guy. I listened patiently. But after nicely saying that we were happy with what we had - I just had to get rude and say Nooooooooo and explain that we were now offened with his constant baddgering and countering of our financial replies. He would not just take no for an answer. We walked out on him. Went to the front desk and even complained.

The resort is wonderful. The sales staff is awful.

Is it even worth complaining to Wyndham? I at least hope to give feedback when a survey comes.

I should have listened to the wife and said we aren't doing an update.

You might get some kind of minimal compensation if you complain - but doubtful. Wyndham is fully complicit in these sales practices, make no mistake about it. They employ cognitive dissonance when it comes their bad sales practices, all of the higher ups are implicitly aware of these types of used car salesperson type practices, and generally Wyndham will only take action when legally forced to do so, which typically means you'd have to file a complaint with the national association of realtors or your local real estate complaint board (assuming the sales rep was a licensed real estate agent - many of them are). Since this was Rio Mar, not sure if there's such a thing though.

 

[bamasteve]

You might get some kind of minimal compensation if you complain - but doubtful. Wyndham is fully complicit in these sales practices, make no mistake about it. They employ cognitive dissonance when it comes their bad sales practices, all of the higher ups are implicitly aware of these types of used car salesperson type practices, and generally Wyndham will only take action when legally forced to do so, which typically means you'd have to file a complaint with the national association of realtors or your local real estate complaint board (assuming the sales rep was a licensed real estate agent - many of them are). Since this was Rio Mar, not sure if there's such a thing though.

Thanks. I’ve calmed down after a walk on the beach and a Pina colada by the pool. I’ll complain but agree it’s just built into the sales system.

 

[Silverdollar]

You might get some kind of minimal compensation if you complain - but doubtful. Wyndham is fully complicit in these sales practices, make no mistake about it. They employ cognitive dissonance when it comes their bad sales practices, all of the higher ups are implicitly aware of these types of used car salesperson type practices, and generally Wyndham will only take action when legally forced to do so, which typically means you'd have to file a complaint with the national association of realtors or your local real estate complaint board (assuming the sales rep was a licensed real estate agent - many of them are). Since this was Rio Mar, not sure if there's such a thing though.

Constant badgering by sales people at check-in, at owner updates and repeated calls to our room are offensive to many Wyndham owners. I would like for the Tug family to come up with an organized strategy to address this with Wyndham management. Also, lets come up with ways to respond to sales people at check-in. For example, if they refuse to take no for an answer, then say something like, "if you bother me any more I will sue for harassment. Or, you could take out your phone and let them know you are recording the conversation and will present it to Wyndham management. If you have other suggestions please post them.

 

[jp10558]

Constant badgering by sales people at check-in, at owner updates and repeated calls to our room are offensive to many Wyndham owners. I would like for the Tug family to come up with an organized strategy to address this with Wyndham management. Also, lets come up with ways to respond to sales people at check-in. For example, if they refuse to take no for an answer, then say something like, "if you bother me any more I will sue for harassment. Or, you could take out your phone and let them know you are recording the conversation and will present it to Wyndham management. If you have other suggestions please post them.

I guess I'll see how bad it is for me next year going to New Orleans, but I just unplug the phones and say no, sometimes with some flourishes if I can come up with an appropriate one.

I don't know you can sue for harassment lol - I don't make legal style threats - not a good idea IMHO. It's just their job, and it sucks the way it's set up.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

The Salesman was selling hard ... Is it even worth complaining to Wyndham?

only if you want to definitely get him a bonus

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Implicitly? Explicitly.
Aware? Training.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that many companies are the way they are from the top-down. Is it more comforting to think the higher-up are on your side.

 

[chapjim]

I guess I'll see how bad it is for me next year going to New Orleans, but I just unplug the phones and say no, sometimes with some flourishes if I can come up with an appropriate one.

I don't know you can sue for harassment lol - I don't make legal style threats - not a good idea IMHO. It's just their job, and it sucks the way it's set up.

Kidnapping?

 

[TheHolleys87]

I have two TUG t-shirts now. I plan to wear one at checkin the next time I’m at a non-DVC resort. If somehow we end up at an “update” (DH likes to make other people, including the body snatchers, happy), I’ll wear the other one then. Hopefully that will work.

However, I’ve enjoyed reading evasive maneuvers other TUGGERS have reported in various threads. I wish I had the links to enter here!

 

[HitchHiker71]

Constant badgering by sales people at check-in, at owner updates and repeated calls to our room are offensive to many Wyndham owners. I would like for the Tug family to come up with an organized strategy to address this with Wyndham management. Also, lets come up with ways to respond to sales people at check-in. For example, if they refuse to take no for an answer, then say something like, "if you bother me any more I will sue for harassment. Or, you could take out your phone and let them know you are recording the conversation and will present it to Wyndham management. If you have other suggestions please post them.

Let me put it another way - Wyndham sales and marketing management created the sales strategies, tactics, and playbooks used by the local resort sales staff. The top brass is implicitly aware of the strategies because they were instrumental in endorsing said strategies. Sure they will field complaints and use things like hidden recorded shopping third parties to embrace the appearance of doing something about it when needed - but it's always the bare minimum. At the end of the day, the sales practices deployed and employed work to deliver the almighty bottom line, which is 75% of all revenue coming from VOIs (Vacation Ownership Investments). Short of filing a complaint with the real estate associations or contacting the AG at the state level, there's not much that's going to move the needle. It's been this way for decades now unfortunately - to varying extents. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, I'd love to figure something out that hasn't already been thought of or attempted, but in my six years of timeshare ownership experiences, there's been no change of any kind really. I suppose I've become somewhat of a realist as to what is and is not feasible.

 

[Silverdollar]

I guess I'll see how bad it is for me next year going to New Orleans, but I just unplug the phones and say no, sometimes with some flourishes if I can come up with an appropriate one.

I don't know you can sue for harassment lol - I don't make legal style threats - not a good idea IMHO. It's just their job, and it sucks the way it's set up.

I am VIPP and have owned with Fairfield/Wyndham for 41 years. If bad weather is forecast while on vacation we may attend an owner update, but we usually hold out for the best deal. For example, we have received $250.00 at the last four updates. Three were $250 VISA cash cards, and one was a $250 Tango card to several restaurants we like.

If we attend an update, I listen to their spiel and then tell them I only purchase resale because they are free on Ebay.

 

[bamasteve]

Let me put it another way - Wyndham sales and marketing management created the sales strategies, tactics, and playbooks used by the local resort sales staff. The top brass is implicitly aware of the strategies because they were instrumental in endorsing said strategies. Sure they will field complaints and use things like hidden recorded shopping third parties to embrace the appearance of doing something about it when needed - but it's always the bare minimum. At the end of the day, the sales practices deployed and employed work to deliver the almighty bottom line, which is 75% of all revenue coming from VOIs (Vacation Ownership Investments). Short of filing a complaint with the real estate associations or contacting the AG at the state level, there's not much that's going to move the needle. It's been this way for decades now unfortunately - to varying extents. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, I'd love to figure something out that hasn't already been thought of or attempted, but in my six years of timeshare ownership experiences, there's been no change of any kind really. I suppose I've become somewhat of a realist as to what is and is not feasible.

A very pragmatic answer. Thanks for the feedback and letting me vent.

 

[Floridaman76]

I have done 2 updates in the last 45 days, one at Bonnet Creek, one at Governors Green.

Both were very (shockingly) pleasant. Once, I mentioned resale, they knew the gig was up and I was out the door in under 30 minutes both times with my $150 gift card.

I guess it's possible Wyndham has turned the page from BS high pressure sales in a lot of places.

 

[gwberg]

I am VIPP and have owned with Fairfield/Wyndham for 41 years. If bad weather is forecast while on vacation we may attend an owner update, but we usually hold out for the best deal. For example, we have received $250.00 at the last four updates. Three were $250 VISA cash cards, and one was a $250 Tango card to several restaurants we like.

If we attend an update, I listen to their spiel and then tell them I only purchase resale because they are free on Ebay.

Does that end the conversation? Do you stay only the minimum required amount of time? How do you keep your cool if they persist?


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[Silverdollar]

Does that end the conversation? Do you stay only the minimum required amount of time? How do you keep your cool if they persist?


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The conversation is usually cut short when I mention resale. If they persist, I will usually stay the agreed upon time. If they go beyond that, I will remind them of the time limit. If they continue, I may give them a second reminder. If they continue after that, I will stand up and head for the door.

Granted, it is difficult to keep my cool sometimes, but never to the point of cursing or shouting. My wife knows when I am getting irritated and she will gently nudge me under the table.

 

[gwberg]

The conversation is usually cut short when I mention resale. If they persist, I will usually stay the agreed upon time. If they go beyond that, I will remind them of the time limit. If they continue, I may give them a second reminder. If they continue after that, I will stand up and head for the door.

Granted, it is difficult to keep my cool sometimes, but never to the point of cursing or shouting. My wife knows when I am getting irritated and she will gently nudge me under the table.

Thanks for explaining that. As I get older I find that have more self-control—which surprises me. In the past I never showed anger, but I used to boil inside and came away fuming. In my last encounter I simply stated the facts (acquired from TUG). I left in a good mood. It helps to have knowledge on one’s side. Thanks, TUGGERS!


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[HitchHiker71]

I have done 2 updates in the last 45 days, one at Bonnet Creek, one at Governors Green.

Both were very (shockingly) pleasant. Once, I mentioned resale, they knew the gig was up and I was out the door in under 30 minutes both times with my $150 gift card.

I guess it's possible Wyndham has turned the page from BS high pressure sales in a lot of places.

IME it's all based on the rep in question. I've had very docile updates and I've had very aggressive updates. From the FB groups, we still see lots of aggressive updates especially when the owner isn't very knowledgeable or it's a non-owner (renter) that finds the FB group trying to validate if what they were told is actually true - which of course is almost universally not the case or at the very least is half-truths that don't work in the purchaser's favor when the details are laid out. As soon as the sales rep realizes you actually know something about timeshares and are relatively knowledgeable, they typically back down and you are exited rather quickly as it's become obvious it's a waste of their time trying to make a sale.

 

[HitchHiker71]

A very pragmatic answer. Thanks for the feedback and letting me vent.

Feel free to vent - it's a typical response to being manipulated and lied to really. Some folks live for attending updates for the free stuff and view it as some sort of game to be played. I was like this for the first few years of ownership for example, but the luster wore off and we typically avoid updates for the most part these days unless we're after something specific at a resort - such as Busch Gardens tickets and parking when going to Williamsburg or something similar. The generic gift cards or even WR points just aren't as attractive to us these days - we have almost 600k WR points built up for example - more than what we typically use in any one year.

 

[Silverdollar]

Feel free to vent - it's a typical response to being manipulated and lied to really. Some folks live for attending updates for the free stuff and view it as some sort of game to be played. I was like this for the first few years of ownership for example, but the luster wore off and we typically avoid updates for the most part these days unless we're after something specific at a resort - such as Busch Gardens tickets and parking when going to Williamsburg or something similar. The generic gift cards or even WR points just aren't as attractive to us these days - we have almost 600k WR points built up for example - more than what we typically use in any one year.

I have been to Margueritaville Club Wyndham Atlanta 12 times since it opened 2 years ago and have not attended an owner update once. Recently, I learned that I can use WR points at this location for 15k per night, plus a 10% discount as a WR Diamond member. I was able to book this arrangement in a 1-BR Deluxe last week. Most of the resorts of this quality are 30K WR points. I was surprised when it was only 15k plus my 10% discount.

FYI, the lower floors at this resort are Margueritaville, and the upper floors are Club Wyndham. We have stayed in every size unit in both lower and upper floors including Studio, 1 & 2 BR Deluxe, and 1, 2 & 3 BR Presidentials. The layout is basically the same for lower and upper floors. The main difference is the decor.