What did Marriott owners who rented weeks do when renters were unable to occupy the rented units because of COVID?

[Retired!]

We were at the Aruba Surf Club in March when COVID border closures started. We were there to celebrate our fiftieth wedding anniversary. Our children were coming to join us on the weekend of March 12--One of our adult children and her family had rented through Red Week a multiple bedroom unit at Aruba Ocean Club for $3700-- when she had to cancel, the owner refused to refund any of her money --Just wondering what happened to others who may have had a similar experience. I told my daughter that I thought the owner should have deducted his maintenance fees and refunded the rest or offered to book her at another time. Unfortunately, she did not take the Red Week insurance and paid the owner directly.

 

[DeniseM]

It depends on what terms her rental agreement included.

 

[dioxide45]

If they rented through Redweek's full service program. Redweek had the money in escrow and refunded it to the renters. Owners were out of luck. Your adult child could go the small claims court route if they feel that they should have been provided a refund. They need to look at their contract.

 

[LUVourMarriotts]

I had a reservation to go to Surf Club in July, but then when Aruba shut down, I cancelled and rebooked for mid-August. I then rented it out. In the contract, I wrote that I would only provide a refund if the island or resort were not accepting visitors. Well, 3-4 days before arrival, my renter asked if they could not go, and what we could do about it. I contacted MVC and they graciously offered to give me an II cert, valid through 12/31/21, that I could use. So, I took it. I will work it out with my renter to go somewhere over the next 16 months. My renter was cool with that as well. I didn't really have to do this, because the contract specifically stated this, in a COVID-19 section, but I'm not a prick.

If your daughter was supposed to come in on March 12, the borders had not been shut yet. They stopped inbound international flights on March 16 at midnight. But, the important part to find out is if MVC was already giving people the II cert in place of the reservation for March 12. If the renter received compensation from MVC (an II cert) for this stay, and also kept the $ from the renter, there may be some action your daughter could take, if she wants to go through that hassle. Proving the renter received the II cert may be difficult.

 

[Retired!]

My daughter is not pursing any legal action and chalking it up to "lesson learned". I am just very disappointed that someone would ,in my opinion ,behave so unconscionably. Our youngest daughter arrived in Aruba on Friday Mar 13 from Canada just as our PM was advising against travel--So we and she came back to Canada on the Sunday, Mar. 15 , the day before Aruba closed its borders. Our daughter who was renting her unit and supposed to arrive on the 14th cancelled her week. Even Marriott actually gave us and the daughter who came to Aruba certificates for our partially used weeks. Just very surprised that the renter behaved the way he did --and wondered if others who had rented their units did the same. Don't consider myself naive--but maybe I am. I would have offered the person renting a partial refund--but sounds like global pandemic or not, legally the renter has to do nothing and so that is what he did.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I had a reservation to go to Surf Club in July, but then when Aruba shut down, I cancelled and rebooked for mid-August. I then rented it out. In the contract, I wrote that I would only provide a refund if the island or resort were not accepting visitors. Well, 3-4 days before arrival, my renter asked if they could not go, and what we could do about it. I contacted MVC and they graciously offered to give me an II cert, valid through 12/31/21, that I could use. So, I took it. I will work it out with my renter to go somewhere over the next 16 months. My renter was cool with that as well. I didn't really have to do this, because the contract specifically stated this, in a COVID-19 section, but I'm not a prick.

If your daughter was supposed to come in on March 12, the borders had not been shut yet. They stopped inbound international flights on March 16 at midnight. But, the important part to find out is if MVC was already giving people the II cert in place of the reservation for March 12. If the renter received compensation from MVC (an II cert) for this stay, and also kept the $ from the renter, there may be some action your daughter could take, if she wants to go through that hassle. Proving the renter received the II cert may be difficult.

At the very least the owner should've done this and got the travel cert from II. It wouldn't have duplicated the first trip but it definitely has some value. The challenge is the cert is in the owners name and inventory is fluid so you really need to get acceptable travel options from renter and then when you see it you have to jump on it. What I ended up doing on one because of this challenge was I found something I will use for my family group and will be paying them a more than fair rental fee. It doesn't make them whole from renting a 2BDRM Maui OF but its something and they were happy because they had rented a second unit and got zilch from that one.

 

[emeryjre]

There are a number of discussions on the forums that examined in detail the issues your daughter had. I refunded my renters at Harborside and I had payment in cash. Not every owner acted in the same manner. Some owners were facing financial problems with providing refunds, some felt that the contract allowed them to not provide a refund or anything else.

The only thing to be learned by this, is to protect yourself as best you can in the future. Not everyone you do business will act to protect you.

This whole situation has created problems and issues on all sides.

 

[tschwa2]

At the very least the owner should've done this and got the travel cert from II. It wouldn't have duplicated the first trip but it definitely has some value. The challenge is the cert is in the owners name and inventory is fluid so you really need to get acceptable travel options from renter and then when you see it you have to jump on it. What I ended up doing on one because of this challenge was I found something I will use for my family group and will be paying them a more than fair rental fee. It doesn't make them whole from renting a 2BDRM Maui OF but its something and they were happy because they had rented a second unit and got zilch from that one.

Was the travel cert a replacement week from Marriott or a cert from II. Were they offering those in March when cancelling 2 days before check in? I offered a renter a refund minus $600 on a $3000 reservation if they cancelled before 60 days on a Vistana reservation. If cancelled with 14 they would get the restricted star options reservation that to be honest I am not going to be spending hours up at midnight to get them something near equivalent. So If they want a week in Orlando for next year then I could probably accommodate. Or maybe something in the Caribbean next September. Cancelling the day before a Sunday check in, I don't know if they could have expected anything.

Just to be nice I could probably get the OP's daughter a free week in Orlando, or Williamsburg or Vegas but I don't think that is what she wants.

 

[travelinmom]

I refunded my renter but I was able to turn around and rent the week again to someone else. My son booked something through AirBNB and was not able to get a refund when Nashville closed bars again, so this issue goes beyond timeshare rentals.

Many may want to bash owners who didn’t refund, but I can see both sides of it. Renters rent from owners rather than Marriott because they save a lot of money. The downside of the savings is you don’t typically have cancellation privileges. Heck even hotel rooms are requiring 48 cancellations (way before Covid hit) and only relaxed that, due to Covid, to avoid a PR nightmare. I can see more contracts getting used in the future to avoid this problem.


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[vacationtime1]

. . . .
Many may want to bash owners who didn’t refund, but I can see both sides of it. Renters rent from owners rather than Marriott because they save a lot of money. The downside of the savings is you don’t typically have cancellation privileges. Heck even hotel rooms are requiring 48 cancellations (way before Covid hit) and only relaxed that, due to Covid, to avoid a PR nightmare. I can see more contracts getting used in the future to avoid this problem.

I also see both sides of it (having been on both sides). The problem is that entitled renters do not.

Entitled renters believe they are entitled to the lower prices available by renting from owners rather than from Marriott.

Entitled renters also believe they are entitled to cancel at the last moment and receive a full refund -- Marriott terms -- even when they paid only half of the Marriott price.

 

[billymach4]

I have a good relationship with a repeat renter. Like clockwork rents every year at the same resort. Standard contract language to get travel insurance no refunds.

This year is so out of whack and I don't want to loose the good will and faith of this relationship. I took the II cert as the replacement for this years loss.

Made a new reservation for them next year at no cost to my renter and they can use again. I will try to use the replacement cert as an add on for next year as well. If they choose to use the replacement week then I will ask to collect the 2021 rental fees.

 

[MOXJO7282]

Was the travel cert a replacement week from Marriott or a cert from II. Were they offering those in March when cancelling 2 days before check in? I offered a renter a refund minus $600 on a $3000 reservation if they cancelled before 60 days on a Vistana reservation. If cancelled with 14 they would get the restricted star options reservation that to be honest I am not going to be spending hours up at midnight to get them something near equivalent. So If they want a week in Orlando for next year then I could probably accommodate. Or maybe something in the Caribbean next September. Cancelling the day before a Sunday check in, I don't know if they could have expected anything.

Just to be nice I could probably get the OP's daughter a free week in Orlando, or Williamsburg or Vegas but I don't think that is what she wants.

It was an II cert that I got 3 days before check-in at the end of March. I think that was the closest you could get something at that time. I really lucked out this year and only had a few renters get effected and was able to get everyone a fair amount of value back. I wish i could've refunded 100% but that would've been too one sided and I thought a shared model was acceptable although I wasn't under any obligation contractually. It's like when I let my friend fix my Range Rover instead of going to the dealer. I know the risk as do my renters who know they don't have the same recourse, or costs, compared to renting from Marriott and to them its worth it.

I also have a few repeat renters that I told no matter what they would get a full refund because I value their business alot. Not that I don't value everyone but I have one guy who has rented 10 times so I was going to make sure I would cover him and then anyone else would get partial refunds.

 

[Retired!]

My initial post to this thread was prompted by a casual inquiry to my daughter several weeks ago, "Did the person you rented from ever offer you anything like a partial refund. I thought it would be reasonable to expect the renter to refund the monies beyond his cost --since it was not a callous or frivolous reason, but a once in a century pandemic that necessitated the cancellation--Aruba actually closed its borders during the week that she was scheduled to inhabit the unit. My daughter has no intention of pursing the matter --but I was curious to know if the way she was treated during COVID was typical. It is refreshing to see that many owners did indeed seek to provide some consideration for those who had to cancel because of COVID.

I also realize I had some misconceptions about those renting out units on RED WEEK. I had not personally used it since before 2002 when we first became Vacation Club owners. I had two successful transactions without issue. I had assumed those renting were doing so sporadically, whenever they could not use their unit , ( which had been the case with those I had rented from years ago) and they were essentially seeking to recoup their maintenance fees as well as some extra towards their initial investment. I now realize that that is not the situation any more and many are actually using their units as a business enterprise. Had I known that I probably would have advised more caution to my daughter -

 

[Pompey Family]

I rented a week at Son Antem. Earlier in the year we were contacted by the broker asking if we wanted the owners to deposit the week in II and provide us with their exchange certificate. I declined because II really doesn't work for us particularly in Europe during peak holiday times and I felt confident at the time that the Covid situation would have improved significantly by August. However, we were unable to travel due to FCO advice. I didn't inform the broker that we didn't go, the owner doesn't know that we didn't go but would probably assume that we didn't but I made the decision to take the risk and declined the owner's offer so as far as I'm concerned the owner isn't obliged to offer me anything. I'm now waiting to see if the insurance company will honour their obligations.

 

[bazzap]

I rented a week at Son Antem. Earlier in the year we were contacted by the broker asking if we wanted the owners to deposit the week in II and provide us with their exchange certificate. I declined because II really doesn't work for us particularly in Europe during peak holiday times and I felt confident at the time that the Covid situation would have improved significantly by August. However, we were unable to travel due to FCO advice. I didn't inform the broker that we didn't go, the owner doesn't know that we didn't go but would probably assume that we didn't but I made the decision to take the risk and declined the owner's offer so as far as I'm concerned the owner isn't obliged to offer me anything. I'm now waiting to see if the insurance company will honour their obligations.

Have you found an insurance company in the UK which covers timeshares?

 

[tugcccsp]

I own weeks that were rented out in the summer. Terms were non-refundable. I gave full refunds because I could afford to do it.

 

[ciscogizmo1]

I rented a tons of weeks this year because I had a "Europe" trip planned (thankfully that trip was refunded in full). So, I refunded everyone. One person actually went to South Lake Tahoe as it was local to them. But for everyone else I refunded because everybody paid me via paypal and most likely you would lose the chargeback as you could not provide accommodations. It was the right thing to do. I was able to bank all my weeks and points (I own in different systems not just MVC). The only week that I got a II certificate for was my Hawaii week at Waiohai. I did rent one week through a 3rd party and I never had trouble with this travel agent but I will never rent to them again. So I might ban 3rd party renters (basically travel agents). Now for the immediate future, I will probably not rent for awhile until Covid is in a better place.

 

[TXTortoise]

I own weeks that were rented out in the summer. Terms were non-refundable. I gave full refunds because I could afford to do it.

And that was a big deal, as I know you have fixed weeks with limited options for reserving a week later in the year. Staring down Jan/Feb now...waiting to see what happens.

 

[CPNY]

I offered to change the week to the end of August. Then offered a 50% refund while Bahamas was open. The renter decided to take the refund.

 

[Pompey Family]

Have you found an insurance company in the UK which covers timeshares?

No, I didn't specifically look for one. I'm just using our Virgin policy that was taken out last year for non timeshare travel however I'm finding it difficult for them to grasp the concept of timeshare rentals and the role of brokers. I'm applying on the basis the FCO advice meant we couldn't travel therefore the insurance would be invalid and on that basis the insurance company shouldn't be desperately trying to find someone else to foot the bill. They've been pretty good in the past, covered my £30k appendoctomy in California with no quibble so £1k isn't too much to ask for.

 

[bazzap]

No, I didn't specifically look for one. I'm just using our Virgin policy that was taken out last year for non timeshare travel however I'm finding it difficult for them to grasp the concept of timeshare rentals and the role of brokers. I'm applying on the basis the FCO advice meant we couldn't travel therefore the insurance would be invalid and on that basis the insurance company shouldn't be desperately trying to find someone else to foot the bill. They've been pretty good in the past, covered my £30k appendoctomy in California with no quibble so £1k isn't too much to ask for.

Good luck, I will be interested to know if they come through for you.

 

[wjarcher]

OP's daughter isn't alone suffering from the rental loss, I was reading the BBB site for vacation candy and there were a lot of unhappy customers. I've not used either redweek or vacation candy, but it looks like redweek (for listings using their booking service) would hold the money until the check-in which protects the renters in this case rather than vacation candy which seems to disburse the money to the owners right away. I understand the owner might not like what redweek did but at least Marriott provided some alternative while the renters over vacation candy seem to have none. I applaud owners in this thread who were willing to work with the renters.

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[Quilter]

It was an II cert that I got 3 days before check-in at the end of March. I think that was the closest you could get something at that time. I really lucked out this year and only had a few renters get effected and was able to get everyone a fair amount of value back. I wish i could've refunded 100% but that would've been too one sided and I thought a shared model was acceptable although I wasn't under any obligation contractually. It's like when I let my friend fix my Range Rover instead of going to the dealer. I know the risk as do my renters who know they don't have the same recourse, or costs, compared to renting from Marriott and to them its worth it.

I also have a few repeat renters that I told no matter what they would get a full refund because I value their business alot. Not that I don't value everyone but I have one guy who has rented 10 times so I was going to make sure I would cover him and then anyone else would get partial refunds.

As loyal as you are to renters I have found there is no return of loyalty. It's all about the best deal they can get.

 

[Quilter]

We were at the Aruba Surf Club in March when COVID border closures started. We were there to celebrate our fiftieth wedding anniversary. Our children were coming to join us on the weekend of March 12--One of our adult children and her family had rented through Red Week a multiple bedroom unit at Aruba Ocean Club for $3700-- when she had to cancel, the owner refused to refund any of her money --Just wondering what happened to others who may have had a similar experience. I told my daughter that I thought the owner should have deducted his maintenance fees and refunded the rest or offered to book her at another time. Unfortunately, she did not take the Red Week insurance and paid the owner directly.

Take Covid out of the entire mix. With every rental there is the possibility something will go wrong before the trip. That potential goes up relative to the number in the traveling party. From the experience of a friend I know a slip on a ladder resulting in a broken arm can happen the day before a flight. So can the flu. So can a car accident. Therefore, whenever someone signs a non-refundable (even Expedia distinguishes between refundable and non-refundable) contract they need to consider the gamble they are taking.

Think of the side of the person who owns the week. They have spent time and money to invest in the week offered on Redweek. Then they manage the week to obtain a marketable rental. The higher the demand for the week the harder it is to reserve. Once they enter into a contract they take that week off the rental market, therefore losing the potential to rent to someone who would have no issue with travel. The owner has spent a considerable investment of money and time to offer a high-demand rental.

Trip insurance is always a good consideration with traveling. How many times do we pass on the offer because we don't want to spend for something we might not need? There's always the possibility of using a credit card that has a built in trip insurance policy for those who don't want to spend on individual plans. This takes time and consideration which any adult who wants to enter into a travel contract should look into.

I had several renters caught in the Covid situation. Two of them had health issues or had family member with health issue causing them problems traveling during a potential virus. There's always a potential virus. How many people are affected by flu every year? What business did they have contracting a non-refundable reservation without consideration there could be a virus without purchasing trip insurance to cover their ongoing/well known health issues? On a side note: on January 1 I sat on a plane in front of an entire family who, the mother said, had the flu. I flew home 3 weeks later for a 36 hour stay and then when I flew back I was next to someone who coughed and sniffed the entire flight.

Another issue I had with renters was the date they entered into a contract. They signed a non-refundable contract AFTER Covid was well documented news.

All of the above gives the owner the right to ignore any cries for a refund as long as the resort remains open. As I said in the beginning, take Covid out of mix. There was a host of reasons you daughter's family may not have been able to travel. They should have considered this when signing the contract. The contract was for a room during certain time frame and that is fulfilled.

As an aside I will say that I offered either a 65% refund or a replacement reservation. All but one took the offer. That one delayed responding to my emails and calls. I begged them to let me help them with the predicament. In the end, they said they were fine pursuing their option of going to the credit card's trip insurance policy they used to pay through PayPal. Month's later I got a letter from PayPal saying the renter tried to get a refund through PayPal.

To directly address your post you said your daughter isn't pursuing any legal action and accepting it as a lesson learned. This sounds as if the lesson she's learned is "the inhumanity against humanity". Why can't it be the lesson that as an adult you accept the responsibility of knowing the parameters of a contract before entering into one.

 

[Retired!]

Quilter:

Your conclusion is actually not only harsh but entirely inaccurate. My daughter's comment about lesson learned was not a comment on the state of humanity--it was much more specific and personal--she had not signed a contract, actually -she emailed the owner --asked if he could provide evidence that he had a reservation in his name for the week -- which he provided- and then she sent him a bank draft ( the only form of payment he would accept ) --She felt she had behaved naively and I actually feel as if I had contributed by telling her Redweek transactions were mostly transactions with owners unable to use their week that year, which I now realize is not accurate . Many people it seems use renting their timeshare weeks as business enterprises --hence my lesson learned too! It was when I suggested she should have been given some compensation for the week--that she said no, I am just chalking it up to lessons learned. Her first lesson being that she should have treated it more like a true business exchange and used the RED Week contract, and it also was a reflection on the fact that she had believed nothing would have prevented her from attending our 50th celebration but unforeseen events happen.

Taking COVID out of the discussion entirely misses my point-- I was asking what owners did during COVID because I assumed there must have been many people who had to change plans, during an extraordinary event!!-- AND my opinion is that it is refreshing to know that some owners including you did indeed make accommodations of some sort, because it was COVID --a once in a century event. I also believe that in these extraordinary circumstances that it was not and is not "business as usual", and I assumed that all interactions would be coloured by that. That is why I asked the question --to see if my daughter's circumstance was unique -but certainly -not indeed to rail against "man's inhumanity to humanity". Actually, sorry I asked the question. Given the tragedy surrounding COVID --there are indeed much more serious problems.