What a quagmire!

[calgarygary]

This is my first post and I have an incredible problem and am looking for advice. I was the successful bidder for a timeshare on ebay (maybe I should have known better). Both the listing and the contract that I signed was for a one bdr. @ Vistana Villages in Orlando. When the deed arrived, I find that I own a timeshare at the Sheraton PGA in St. Lucie. How can a reseller and the escrow agent make such a huge error. I want the Vistana Villages but the seller says that none are available. Any advice on how to proceed?

 

[jesuis1837]

First... did you pay with paypal? if so you have a course of action where you can get full refund (if the seller have $ on his account) as what you got is TOTALLY different that's what was advertised. This is false or misrepresentation and you surely can cancel the whole thing!

 

[teepeeca]

Contact the closing/escrow company with your concerns. If the contract you signed was for one property, "THAT" is the property you should get. You "DO NOT" have to accept any other property, and all of yout $$$ should be immediately refunded if the seller cannot provide what the contract says.

E-bay is a good way to buy timeshares (I have bought several/many that way), and the "very few" times there were problems, they were fixed immediately.

Tony

 

[Bill4728]

This is my first post and I have an incredible problem and am looking for advice. I was the successful bidder for a timeshare on ebay (maybe I should have known better). Both the listing and the contract that I signed was for a one bdr. @ Vistana Villages in Orlando. When the deed arrived, I find that I own a timeshare at the Sheraton PGA in St. Lucie. How can a reseller and the escrow agent make such a huge error. I want the Vistana Villages but the seller says that none are available. Any advice on how to proceed?

Gary,

Ebay really is a good place to buy a TS, cheap. But with any TS purchase, you must check the facts to ensure you're buying what you think you're buying.

Vistana Villages (VV) is a starwood mandatory resort and is worth at least $5000 more than PGA which is a voluntary resort. I wouldn't accept PGA and you don't have to either. It isn't what you bought. Demand VV or a full refund.

Good Luck

 

[calgarygary]

I have been offerred a refund but they are trying to get me to sign over the deed first - something I will not do. I am aware of the benefits of Vistana Villages and that is why I am insisting on the contract being honored. I have contacted the closing/escrow company on this matter but quite honestly do not have a lot of confidence in them now because although the seller apparently messed up with his listing, how does a closing company close on a deed that is not for the property in the contract? To me, the closing/escrow company has made the even greater error and I am not getting a lot of satisfaction from either the seller or the closing company.

 

[Hoc]

I have been offerred a refund but they are trying to get me to sign over the deed first - something I will not do.

Good idea. That happened once with me, when "The Frieds" transferred a different unit than I purchased. When I pointed out the error, they told me to transfer it back, and they would send me the right one. I transferred it back, and then they kept both, and never gave me anything. In my case, the money was small enough that I wasn't going to pursue a fraud action, but it's a good idea if you care about the money to transfer it back through an escrow.

 

[Conan]

I want the Vistana Villages but the seller says that none are available.
....
I have been offerred a refund

Take the money!

As to signing the deed back to the escrow agent first, I'd do it if they gave me a letter confirming that they'll hold the deed in escrow until I got my cash.
Unless they are outright crooks/fraudsters, which is unlikely, I can't imagine them keeping the deed and denying you the cash that they've agreed to hold in escrow.

 

[Harry]

Mistake

This is a classical mistake and that means there is no contract. The law considers everything that happened as VOID. Now you have to get your money back and they have a right to the deed. I like the idea above concerning Escrow. I am not big on Ebay for timeshare buying and selling just because of what happened to you.

 

[dioxide45]

To avoid this would it be best to ask the closing company to forward you a copy of the deed before it is sent to the seller? I work in an industry where performing due diligence can't be stressed enough. I would feel best if I was able to review the documents before they were sent to the seller to sign.

 

[calgarygary]

This is a classical mistake and that means there is no contract. The law considers everything that happened as VOID. Now you have to get your money back and they have a right to the deed. I like the idea above concerning Escrow. I am not big on Ebay for timeshare buying and selling just because of what happened to you.

I agree that an error in listing is a mistake. However, the contract provided specifically listed the Vistana Villages, 2 errors still a mistake? The escrow company then registered a property that was not on the contract. A third error still a mistake? I believe that a competent company holding escrow could not help but notice that the contract and the deed were for 2 different properties. This third error is what troubles me the most as my wife deals with mortgages and she can not imagine a property being registered in this manner. I believe that it is possible that the seller deliberately switched properties and is trying to avoid satisfying the contract.

 

[Robert D]

Who is this closing company? Doesn't seem like a reputable closing company would have made this kind of error. We all need to know who this closing company is so we can stay away from them and any sellers using them.

 

[calgarygary]

The company that did the closing/escrow is based in Georgia. Does anyone know if there is an oversight association that I can file a complaint with. As of today, the only offer on the table is a refund after I submit a deed transfer to the same escrow company that was a participant in this fiasco. I will not give up an asset to a company that I now have grave concern regarding their competence. As far as posting the company's name, I am prepared to do this but as I am new to the board, I would like to know from a moderator regarding the acceptibility of this.

 

[BevL]

You've mentioned that you want the contract honored. That's not going to happen, as the escrow company won't be able to give you something they don't have. That leaves the option of getting your money back and starting over, right?

So basically you're left with how to exchange the money they have for the deed you have. Why not suggest that it be put in the hands of another escrow company, at their cost, to sort out? If they're at all reputable, I'd think they'd agree to that - it would seem reasonable given the circumstances and they should expect you'd be a little gunshy about just having them fix this themselves.

Not sure how to go about making a complaint as I live north of the 49th as well. But I'd suggest there must be some sort of body that oversees escrow companies - they hold other people's money in trust, after all.

Please keep us advised, especially if you decide to post the name of the company. If they are prompt in responding and are reasonable in coming to a solution, that personally for me would go a long way toward restoring confidence.

Bev

 

[KenK]

Some just don't know what they are selling. Probably not on purpose....but maybe too much hype:

Here is a Marriott listed on e bay. (It might be two weeks) There are no three bedrooms at this resort. Week two (as listed) is Yellow, not red high season. Marriott does not provide maid service (as part of the yearly maintance fees-but will as an extra charge), and there are no exchanges that include airfare paid by Marriott: (How can the successful buyer ever get the 3 bedroom?)

I asked questions but no reply. (yet-after 3 days):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Time-Share-Atla...897QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item330085607268
I agree with the others, just get your money back. I'm pretty sure you will find another 'deal' that is listed correctly.

 

[calgarygary]

I appreciate that some do not know what they are selling but that is what the escrow/title company is for. I supposedly paid $350 for "Attorney review & deed preparation". How could anyone not notice that a contract for a property in Orlando, and a deed in St. Lucie could not be for the same place? I now know the type of seller I am dealing with as he has listed the property (my unit #, week #) in dispute on ebay. I have reported this to ebay requesting that they remove the listing as I do not know how anyone can sell something not in their possession. I am going to include the link for the listing and that will show who the offending seller and title/escrow company are. I understand that some folks have posted good things about Tammy here but this is a fundamental error. When an escrow company fails to examine the facts of the contract prior to disbursements, they are negligent in the performance of their duties.

As of this morning, neither the seller or Timeshare Freedom, Inc. have responded to my request to use a Calgary lawyer for my submission of the deed for refund. I am still looking for assistance in determining if there is some oversight association for "Licensed, bonded and fully insured Escrow & Title" companies in Georgia.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sheraton-Port-St-Lucie-Florida-Timeshare-Deed-for-Sale_W0QQitemZ270089518154QQihZ017QQcategoryZ15897QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[m61376]

Some just don't know what they are selling. Probably not on purpose....but maybe too much hype:

Here is a Marriott listed on e bay. (It might be two weeks) There are no three bedrooms at this resort. Week two (as listed) is Yellow, not red high season. Marriott does not provide maid service (as part of the yearly maintance fees-but will as an extra charge), and there are no exchanges that include airfare paid by Marriott: (How can the successful buyer ever get the 3 bedroom?)

I asked questions but no reply. (yet-after 3 days):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Time-Share-Atla...897QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item330085607268
I agree with the others, just get your money back. I'm pretty sure you will find another 'deal' that is listed correctly.

I was curious so I looked at that listing. Although it is listed as 3 BR's it does list 8 as the sleeping capacity. The bit about the airfare and to any Marriott in the world is probably referring to the ability to trade for points. When I was looking for a resale I quickly realized that many owners do not realize that resale buyers cannot trade for points.

 

[pranas]

I am having a problem with these folks also. Tammy wouldn't return my e-mails and I had to call and speak to another gal who I think is helping me. I first noticed a problem with my deed (looked closely thanks to reading Carolinian's posts in another thread), I e-mailed Tammy and she replied that she had checked with owner services and was told there was no problem. She even instructed me to call owner services to check for myself. Well I checked with owner services and they had no record of any paperwork from the closing company. When I faxed the resort a copy of my deed and the letter that was supposedly sent to the resort by the closing company, I was told that they could not transfer the week to my name because the seller was not the listed owner of that week. Thankfully, the resort called the closing company and I think it will be straightened out. But the MF and SA are now late and will be assessed a late fee. I think the closing company or seller should pay these late fees. Hopefully, I will still be able to use my unit this year.

 

[aliikai2]

I know you don't want to hear this, But,

If they are offering you a complete refund, why not just sign off and get on with your life.:whoopie:

They don't have the week you thought you bought, and they have been around for a few years with very few compaints.

Mistakes happen, and attempting them to pay a Lawer in Canada to escrow thsi transaction is just not going to happen.:ignore:

Take the refund and keep looking for the unit you want.

fwiw, Greg

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I have been offerred a refund but they are trying to get me to sign over the deed first - something I will not do. I am aware of the benefits of Vistana Villages and that is why I am insisting on the contract being honored. I have contacted the closing/escrow company on this matter but quite honestly do not have a lot of confidence in them now because although the seller apparently messed up with his listing, how does a closing company close on a deed that is not for the property in the contract? To me, the closing/escrow company has made the even greater error and I am not getting a lot of satisfaction from either the seller or the closing company.

Forget about the past and focus on what your current situation and your options going forward.

First, getting VV is probably not an option. The seller doesn't have it to give you. The title company can't make a unit appear out of thin air. So your only realistic options are:

1. Keeping the unit you did get.
2. Canceling the whole transaction and getting your money back.

No. 2 is obviously your preferred choice. So how do you make that happen?

The escrow company has offered you a refund, but you don't like that you have to transfer the deed back to them first. I don't think that's unreasonable; if I were in their position, I would take the exact same position. But that is unacceptable to you, and you want to go with what is essentially a second escrow route. They, understandably, are less than enthusiastic about that option.

Bluntly, I think you're putting yourself in a pretty weak position with that insistence. You have little basis to claim that they are being obstreperous or unreasonable; you pointed out a mistake, which they have acknowledged and offered you a full refund. They included a reasonable clause to protect themselves. You can't claim they're acting fraudulently or dishonestly. The most you can assert is that they screwed up, to which their response will be that they admitted the mistake and offered you a full refund. If you are successful in finding a regulatory agency that will follow-up on your claim, the escrow company will just respond with what I summarized above, and the agency will most likely close the file with a notation that the company offered a full refund and the complainant didn't accept the company's offer.

I think that if you insist on going through a second escrow company, of your choosing, you ought to expect that you will wind up paying for that service out of your pocket. The escrow company really has little incentive to offer to share that expense.

***

So what options does that leave you?

Option 1.

If you decide that it's worth it to you to pay the cost of the second escrow yourself, tell the first escrow that you are willing to pay the entire cost of the second escrow service. Note that they may not want to use your selected service, so you may need to find a second escrow that is mutually acceptable.

Option 2.

If you decide that you don't want to bear the cost of a second escrow yourself, you have two alternatives.

Option 2A: send back the deed and trust the escrow company to follow through on their commitment.

Option 2B: keep the unit you have - you do this if the difference in value between the unit you did received and the price you paid is worth less to you than the value you assign to your distaste in continuing to work with the first escrow company. Possibly you may be able to negotiate some partial refund from the seller because of the mistake, but you don't have a lot of leverage to do this.​

****

I think those are your three realistic options - things that you can do to resolve the situation without trying to get other people to do what they can't or won't do. I can't see any other actions that you can do (such as contacting an attorney) as having any real value in addressing your situation.

 

[Dave M]

Gary -

I fully understand your anger at what has happened. It's disappointing and frustrating when others don't do what they have committed to do.

However, you have received excellent advice in this thread. Steve ("T_R_Oglodyte") has summarized your practical options very well. You would do well to choose one of those options and move on.

 

[Harry]

Hanky Panky Going On?

Gary: You are smart to be cautious. Also, I agree this has been a fiasco. The question is exactly what do you want? If you want to get back to status quo ante (back to before the fiasco) then explore the numerous suggestions above. If you want to bring a criminal action against the escrow company, good luck. It is not going to happen. If you want to bring a malpractice action against attorney preparation/review, good luck again. That also is not going to happen. If you want to bring a civil action against any or all of the above it is going to cost you big time unless you are willing to go to Small Claims Court. Then your going to get somebody like me asking what have you done on your side to remedy this situation and how are you hurt? Good luck and keep us advised as to the outcome.

 

[calgarygary]

Maybe the law is different in the U.S. then what I am used to. Maybe others know of a similar example to my situation but I have failed to find one identical example to it. My request to now protect my interests is not unreasonable and I trust will hold up in a court action. Yes in an ideal world, I would receive the property that I contracted for - is that going to happen, possibly but not likely. However, I will if necessary bring claim against the insurance and/or bond if Timeshare Freedom fails to involve a neutral third party to process a refund.

I don't think that's unreasonable; if I were in their position, I would take the exact same position. But that is unacceptable to you, and you want to go with what is essentially a second escrow route. They, understandably, are less than enthusiastic about that option.

I think it is unreasonable to trust an escrow company that failed to perform a basic duty for which they were contracted for. They did not consider it unreasonable for me to make payment in good faith that they could perform their duties, the reverse holds.

You can't claim they're acting fraudulently or dishonestly.

I think the fact that they have listed the timeshare on ebay while knowing that I will not return the deed under their conditions is crossing the line to acting in a fraudulent or dishonest manner. How else would one interpret attempting to sell a property that you do not own?

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I think it is unreasonable to trust an escrow company that failed to perform a basic duty for which they were contracted for. They did not consider it unreasonable for me to make payment in good faith that they could perform their duties, the reverse holds.

There is an important distinction. They escrow company is in business to provide the service; you are a one-time buyer. That changes the risk balance.

From a third party perspective, it is far riskier for them to trust you than for you to trust them. If you should fail to deliver the deed after receiving the money, that has no impact on your commercial reputation. If they fail to deliver the money after receiving the money, their commercial reputation is directly impacted.

***

I know this is not what you want to hear, but speaking bluntly, I get a distinct impression that your emotions about this are clouding your judgment.

 

[calgarygary]

Steve, you misunderstood, I am not asking them to send the refund directly to me. I am requesting that they utilize a lawyer in Calgary for disbursements - that is why I said the reverse is true. That way they will know they are receiving the deed and I will know that I will be getting my refund. Yes, there is emotion involved however I am not letting it get the better of me because I am quite prepared to accept a refund. I have good cause to no longer trust Timeshare Freedom to faithfully execute their duties as they have already failed to do so.

My wife has been in mortgages in major banks and brokers for almost 25 years and she does not know of one example where the wrong property was registered. Yes errors in description can occur, yes errors in clear title occur but can you imagine purchasing a home only to have a house 70 miles away being the one registered to you?

I am also emotional about the current listing as I know that unless ebay removes it - a buyer is not going to receive his/her timeshare. If you want to experience a little of what I'm going through, make a bid!

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Steve, you misunderstood, I am not asking them to send the refund directly to me. I am requesting that they utilize a lawyer in Calgary for disbursements - that is why I said the reverse is true.

I didn't misunderstand that. But from their standpoint - which are the issues I would have if I were in their situation as a business manager - I would wonder:

• who is paying for the lawyer's services
• if I don't know the lawyer, why not use a trust company that we both agree on
• why go to the extra hassle when I've offered a simple remedy

***

If you try to go the legal route (retaining an attorney) that is certainly an option. The issues that I see in that course are:

• I think the company has an easy and credible defense. They offered a full refund if you sent back the deed and you didn't accept the offer. The fact that you might not trust them isn't going to get you very far, particularly as they appear to be an established business and not a "fly-by-night" operation.
  
• You would likely be prosecuting the case in the US, where there is no reimbursement of legal fees by the losing party. In prosecuting the case, you will very quickly pay more in legal fees than the timeshare is worth, with almost no prospect of being reimbursed.