Westin Los Cabos Baja Point availability in Abound

[Eric B]

I've noticed lately that availability for Westin Los Cabos Baja Point shows up in Abound at 13 months rather than being blocked off until 12 months. I suspect that is because the resort was originally developed by an entity separate from Vistana and associated with VSN after it was purchased - as a result, the underlying resort documents may not include the limitations on reservations that exist for resorts developed by Vistana. Figured I'd share the info here as a heads up. Starting a timer now to see how long it is before someone posts about the nefarious motivations of Marriott in doing this and how it detracts from ownership rights....

 

[dioxide45]

I suspect your reasoning is correct. It is basically a voluntary resort. I would think they could do similar 13 month release for other voluntary properties but for whatever reasons they haven’t.

 

[timsi]

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
ABOUND BY MARRIOTT VACATIONS


"CLUB POINTS RESERVATIONS & WAITLIST

Can Owners use Club Points to reserve a stay at a Sheraton Vacation Club or a
Westin Vacation Club resort 13 months prior to arrival?



No. Owners can reserve a Sheraton Vacation Club or Westin Vacation Club resort no earlier than 12
months prior to arrival.
Even those who own VOIs with Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club may not make a
reservation for a stay at their Home Resort(s) earlier than 12 months prior to arrival."

 

[timsi]

I've noticed lately that availability for Westin Los Cabos Baja Point shows up in Abound at 13 months rather than being blocked off until 12 months. I suspect that is because the resort was originally developed by an entity separate from Vistana and associated with VSN after it was purchased - as a result, the underlying resort documents may not include the limitations on reservations that exist for resorts developed by Vistana. Figured I'd share the info here as a heads up. Starting a timer now to see how long it is before someone posts about the nefarious motivations of Marriott in doing this and how it detracts from ownership rights....

The association with the Vistana resorts is through VSN, so shouldn't the 12-month VSN rule be respected regardless of the underlying resort? Unless there is a conflict with the resort rules, in which case, the resort rules should take priority.

 

[Eric B]

2 hours and 8 minutes!!!

 

[timsi]

2 hours and 8 minutes!!!

It's worth noting that the initial version of your post included : " I speculate that..."
So speculating in favor of the developer is normal while posting the Abound FAQ is not. I did not mention any "nefarious motives" by the way so you rushed a bit with the timer.

 

[Cody Penn-Dent]

Baja Point wasn't developed by Vistana and you can still buy RTU contracts for it on the secondary market. It was developed as the Grand Regina and that is the name those contracts sell under.

The developer had issues along the way so different contracts have different structures - some expiring in 100 years, others sooner. Being that it is Mexico, it is hard to get the details on what was arranged initially when the Westin next door "took over" management but the property had many deferred maintenance issues that were addressed afterwards (this may or may not be an issue related to the hike in Aventuras maintenance last year).

But it now appears Vistana/Marriot controls most of the contracts as they aggressively try convert Grand Regina contract owners straight into Abound/MVC and, in some cases, Vistana.

There is a tax issue in Mexico regarding MVC and the sales office at the Westin was closed by the government for a couple of months (as the story goes as told to me by the sales folks in the sales center there, same story on different visits) because selling MVC there was selling an American product that Mexico couldn't tax like they can tax Aventuras sales (again - a rough and probably imprecise description of the situation, but how it was relayed to me by different people at different times). As a result, you can still go to the sales center at Baja Point and buy as much Aventuras/Vistana staroptions as you like and can't buy MVC. I did a retro on two Nanea contracts there last week.

Baja Point is its own thing - very desirable and very hard to get into. Very frustrating if you think it is a Vistana property developed like others and are accustomed to Vistana rules. My take on the situation is Marriot wants to use their inventory as hotel inventory - met several families who booked 3 BR units last week via Bonvoy. You can go on the site and see inventory. As Abound matures more inventory will go there, IMHO. That all said, the sales office is still Vistana and is in the Baja Point complex. They told me last week that they expect more inventory to show up for Aventuras home reservations in about a year but I will believe it when I see it. 13 month booking of Marriot owned contracts via Abound sounds like a solid strategy to me.

 

[LeslieDet]

My take on the situation is Marriot wants to use their inventory as hotel inventory - met several families who booked 3 BR units last week via Bonvoy. You can go on the site and see inventory. As Abound matures more inventory will go there,

If there is a lot of inventory available via BonVoy bookings or in Abound, that sounds like MVW or one of its affiliates that controls the Mexican timeshares has a lot of inventory for sale and the company is seeking revenue sources for that specific entity by offering via the Marriott Inc site and is putting its inventory into Abound to generate some interest and revenue for the Baja Point entity. When Costa Rica opened, the company dumped large portions of that inventory into Abound as it controlled the units. As inventory was sold, then the volume of units dwindled.

I am curious about your retro on two Nanea resales, were you able to buy Adventuras to qualify the Nanea resales? If you don't mind me asking, what was the spend requirement per contract? Thanks.

 

[Cody Penn-Dent]

If there is a lot of inventory available via BonVoy bookings or in Abound, that sounds like MVW or one of its affiliates that controls the Mexican timeshares has a lot of inventory for sale and the company is seeking revenue sources for that specific entity by offering via the Marriott Inc site and is putting its inventory into Abound to generate some interest and revenue for the Baja Point entity. When Costa Rica opened, the company dumped large portions of that inventory into Abound as it controlled the units. As inventory was sold, then the volume of units dwindled.

I am curious about your retro on two Nanea resales, were you able to buy Adventuras to qualify the Nanea resales? If you don't mind me asking, what was the spend requirement per contract? Thanks.

The "business rules" told to me were $10K USD for the first and $5k for any thereafter for that deal. So 3 contracts would require a 20K spend. The enrollment included full VOI status so the contracts can go into Abound too if I want. So I bought Aventuras Staroptions and (it so happened) it was the number I needed to top off for two 2BR weeks in high season (148100 each week) so it made sense for me.

We will see where Baja Point ends up. It was getting rolled into Vistana via the Westin next door when the merger happened and I think Marriot made new plans given that it wasn't originally a Vistana / Aventuras property. I should probably spend an evening reading the full Aventuras contract that I just purchased and see if there is any reference to it.

I should add that Baja Point is a gem (esp buildings 1, 5 and 7) but the main property next door is pretty great - every room would qualify as "oceanfront" in Maui. So I am happy to go there too.

 

[dioxide45]

We will see where Baja Point ends up. It was getting rolled into Vistana via the Westin next door when the merger happened and I think Marriot made new plans given that it wasn't originally a Vistana / Aventuras property. I should probably spend an evening reading the full Aventuras contract that I just purchased and see if there is any reference to it.

I don't know if Aventuras actually owns inventory a Baja. Kind of like, where for now, Aventuras doesn't own inventory at Westin Cancun Resort Villas. As I understand, they offered owners at Baja Point the option to enroll their ownership in VSN early on after Vistana took over that property. So I believe it would behave like any other voluntary resort with some owners owning a week and others owning a week that is in VSN. Was there still unsold inventory there? How old is the property?

 

[Eric B]

The Aventuras POS only lists Westin Lagunamar and Westin Los Cabos (non-Baja Point) in the trust.

 

[daviator]

I don't know if Aventuras actually owns inventory a Baja. Kind of like, where for now, Aventuras doesn't own inventory at Westin Cancun Resort Villas. As I understand, they offered owners at Baja Point the option to enroll their ownership in VSN early on after Vistana took over that property. So I believe it would behave like any other voluntary resort with some owners owning a week and others owning a week that is in VSN. Was there still unsold inventory there? How old is the property?

My understanding is that Baja Point was basically sold out when it became part of Vistana, so I would not expect to see any Baja Point inventory in Aventuras. However, I'm sure that subsequently there has been some inventory acquired by foreclosure, trade-in, deedback, etc. What I don't really understand is how that (apparently) becomes Abound inventory since the Abound trust (if I understand correctly) does not (and maybe cannot) own any inventory outside of the U.S. Presumably whatever entity owns that inventory elects it into Abound?

 

[dioxide45]

My understanding is that Baja Point was basically sold out when it became part of Vistana, so I would not expect to see any Baja Point inventory in Aventuras. However, I'm sure that subsequently there has been some inventory acquired by foreclosure, trade-in, deedback, etc. What I don't really understand is how that (apparently) becomes Abound inventory since the Abound trust (if I understand correctly) does not (and maybe cannot) own any inventory outside of the U.S. Presumably whatever entity owns that inventory elects it into Abound?

Yes, I would expect that ownerships that are in VSN at Baja Point are now Abound eligible. As long as they were acquired prior to August 2022. Which all of them should be because I don't think Vistana offers VSN enrollment anymore. That was just offered early on after they acquired rights to manage the resort. Perhaps if you buy a newly re-aquired interest at the resort it comes with VSN and also Abound? Any non VSN eligible ownerships wouldn't be Abound eligible, just like a resale owner at a voluntary resort.

 

[daviator]

Yes, I would expect that ownerships that are in VSN at Baja Point are now Abound eligible. As long as they were acquired prior to August 2022. Which all of them should be because I don't think Vistana offers VSN enrollment anymore. That was just offered early on after they acquired rights to manage the resort. Perhaps if you buy a newly re-aquired interest at the resort it comes with VSN and also Abound? Any non VSN eligible ownerships wouldn't be Abound eligible, just like a resale owner at a voluntary resort.

For what it's worth, when we were there last Fall, I did an owner update and they were perfectly eager to sell me a deeded week at Baja Point. It would have come with StarOptions etc. So far as I know, that's still the only way you can have home resort ownership at BP.

 

[Cody Penn-Dent]

I don't know if Aventuras actually owns inventory a Baja. Kind of like, where for now, Aventuras doesn't own inventory at Westin Cancun Resort Villas. As I understand, they offered owners at Baja Point the option to enroll their ownership in VSN early on after Vistana took over that property. So I believe it would behave like any other voluntary resort with some owners owning a week and others owning a week that is in VSN. Was there still unsold inventory there? How old is the property?

From what I have read it was built in 2003 or there abouts.

Also read that there was a big assessment around 2009 that resulted in lawsuits which, the story goes, derailed SVG taking over the property back then.

The only way I know of to buy a week at Baja Point is to buy Grand Regina contracts on the secondary. I have asked at the sales office there to buy Baja Point weeks on 3 different trips and they never made that available. Like most sales offices I assume they would if they could.

Different sales people there have told me that they have been incentivizing owners there to trade in their contracts. I just know it is very difficult to get anything more than a "Hotel Room" there through Vistana, even being at Chairman with home resort contracts.

Also - a Raintree property is next door still named "Club Regina" so be aware of the name confusion when looking through old posts and whatnot regarding the "Grand Regina"