Welk Resort - Mountain Villas

[alijon]

Yesterday, my fiancee and I purchased a timeshare with Welk Resorts at their Escondido, CA location. I should start by saying that I admit that I did not take the appropriate time to research this properly before buying (I spent 3 months shopping and pre-arranging my financing before buying my used car). I had zero intention of buying, but when I ran my own numbers, I felt like there was quite a bit of value to what was offered. However, as is my understanding (based on the language in the contract), I have until January 22, 2010 to rescind this. So I now find myself in the position of trying to understand every ounce of research/detail that I can before that deadline passes. Normally I am the one contributing sane advice to those on financial forums or people in my daily life, however now I believe I am on the opposite side of the table. I am a timeshare newb and need to hear the honest truths from veterans like you all so that I can either rescind on the contract or feel confident in my purchase and start to enjoy it. That being said, here are the details:

- I purchased in "phase 2" (meaningless, I know) of the new Mountain Villas at the Welk Resort in Escondido. I am part of the points program, receiving 300,000 points every other year.

- If I choose to stay at Welk in Escondido, a one bedroom suite is 120,000 points per week and a one bedroom villa is 180,000 points

- The timeshare includes the exchange program with Interval International ("II"). As part of this program, for every week that I deposit with II, I get a bonus week in the II system.

- I can deposit points into II at the following one week conversion rates: 90,000 points for a studio, 120,000 points for a 1BD, and 240,000 points for a 2BD. My understanding is that no matter which of these I choose, I get a bonus week for each one. Thus, if I chose to deposit 270,000 points into II, I would effectively get 6 weeks of timeshare usage every 2 years and have 30,000 points leftover (3 studios x 90,000 points plus 3 bonus weeks).

- I also received a one-time gift of 120,000 points and one year of free golf privileges because they could tell I wasn't convinced. Other perks include "platinum" ownerships and free day-usage.

- We paid $16,795 (including closing costs). This is currently financed through Welk at a (ridiculous) rate of 14.9%. However, I am in the process of setting up a 0% balance transfer to 2 credit cards and (if I decide to keep it) paying it off withing 12-18 months. Our maintenance fees are $594 per year.

Now, here is my situation and concerns:

- We bought this primarily for the international travel options and bonuses associated with the II program. Although we wouldn't mind staying in Escondido every so often and taking an advantage of the Day-Use rights, we never would have bought this if we were restricted to Escondido, Palm Springs, Branson, and Cabo (the 4 Welk locations).

- We would consider at least 40% of the value of the package to be associated with the (up to) 3 bonus weeks in the II program we would get every other year. However my concern here is that after reading through the documentation, this program has only been negotiated for 3 years, with another 3 year follow-on option. It was not clearly explained to us during our sales meeting what happens after 6 years. Does anyone know?

- The reason that we got comfortable was based on the following calculation:

- Conservatively, we estimated a 30-year useful life for the timeshare. We are in our mid-20s, so that would bring us to approx age 55.​

- Over the course of this time, we will have an estimated total cost outlay of $47,000 ($16,800 purchase, $18,000 in maintenance fees, and $12,500 in exchange fees) for a total of 90 weeks.​

- This translates into a per-night rate of about $75. I have not included the 120,000 one-time points or the extra 30,000 points I would have every other year in this calc.​

- I realize that their will be some inflation on maintenance and exchange fees, but this would likely far underpace the increases in hotel prices​

To summarize, if we don't get the II exchange program (with bonuses) for the life of the timeshare (or at least 30 years), my above calculation is worthless and I need to rescind this now. Furthermore, if I could buy something with exchange program privileges in the secondary market for cheaper, I need to rescind now. However, if my above understanding is in fact correct, then I feel like this is a pretty good value long-term. I apologize for the long post, but please help set me straight.

 

[Liz Wolf-Spada]

You can definitely buy something for less than $1000 on ebay right now that will get you good trade power in II, RCI or an independent company. We did do the conversion to Welk points and it's not a bad program, but we just bought Paniolo Greens in Hawaii, 2 bedroom, every year, yearly fees $650, for less than $50 plus another $600 in closing costs through ebay. Rescind and start investigating.
Liz

 

[Bill4728]

Welcome to TUG

Furthermore, if I could buy something with exchange program privileges in the secondary market for cheaper, I need to rescind now.

For less than the same $16,700, you could buy two weeks at Marriott's Newport coast in Newport CA. Those weeks could be a 2 bd ocean view unit right across the hwy from the ocean.

Those weeks would have some of the best trading power in II.

So YES RESCIND NOW!! that is just one example of how to buy resale.

Another example of resale buying would be:
Buy into the Monarch Grand Vacation system (MGV) Monarch has 8 resorts mostly within driving distance from the LA area. They all trade in II and trade pretty good ( not as good as Marriott) but they are dirt cheap. A 266 pt package, would give you 2 weeks of TS every 24 months ( they do their time every 24 months) and you could probably buy a TS with them (resale) for less than $2,000. So you could either use one of the 8 resorts in the SoCal area or trade to the II resorts around the world.

Buying from the developer is almost never a good deal. Rescind now and make an educated choice after looking at you options.

Hope this helps

PS the bonus weeks in II
II has what is called get-a-way weeks, they're best for last minute travel, but for $300-$800 you can buy great weeks at great resorts. This is a benefit to all II members! AND there is no limit of the number of get-a-ways you can buy. So if you'd like to go to Palm springs buy a Get-a-way week and go.

Right now II is selling to any II member 1 bd weeks in Hawaii on Kauai & Honolulu for $850/week if you can travel in the next 3 weeks.

Right now II is renting 1 bd weeks at your Welk resort for the second week of April for $400!!

 

[DeniseM]

I agree - RESCIND!

Here is an article about rescinding, it was written for the Starwood resorts, but everything else in it applies to you.

 

[alijon]

Liz and Bill, thank you so much for the quick replies. So based on what you are saying would my understanding be correct that anyone with a timeshare can become a member of an exchange program such as II? So my goal in all of this would be to find a high-demand location (such as a Marriott in So-Cal) that is as cheap as possible and use it to trade in an exchange program to go where I want to?

 

[alijon]

I agree - RESCIND!

Here is an article about rescinding, it was written for the Starwood resorts, but everything else in it applies to you.

Denise, thank you so much for the link. You guys are awesome! I rarely ever find myself making unresearched purchases. So it is great to have some honest feedback from a community like TUG.

 

[Bill4728]

Liz and Bill, thank you so much for the quick replies. So based on what you are saying would my understanding be correct that anyone with a timeshare can become a member of an exchange program such as II? So my goal in all of this would be to find a high-demand location (such as a Marriott in So-Cal) that is as cheap as possible and use it to trade in an exchange program to go where I want to?

The key is what do you want to trade into?? If you want the super high end TS Like a Westin or Marriott, you'll need to trade a high end TS like a Westin or Marriott. BUT if you're OK with nice but not super high end TS, then the cheaper options like Shell or Monarch Grand might be better for you.

Costs for an annual 2 bd TS :
Shell - about $500
Monarch Grand - About $1000
Marriott - Between $5000- $7500 ( with some as high as $15,000)
Westin - between $1000 - $6000 ( with some as high as $15,000)

And that is just 4 of the many many TS systems out there.

PS you should also look into Worldmark. They are totally point based and have lots of resorts in the west (~40) and also trade pretty good (about the same as Welk)

Good Luck

PS be sure to follow the instructions for rescinding. If it say send by US mail, don't FedEx it, mail it by USPS mail.

 

[alijon]

The key is what do you want to trade into, If you want the super high end TS Like a Westin or Marriott, you'll need to trade a high end TS like a Westin or Marriott. BUT if you're OK with nice but not super high end TS, then the cheaper options like Shell or Monarch Grand might be better for you.

Costs for an annual 2 bd TS :
Shell - about $500
Monarch Grand - About $1000
Marriott - Between $5000- $7500 ( with some as high as $15,000)
Westin - between $1000 - $6000 ( with some as high as $15,000)

And that is just 4 of the many many TS systems out there.

PS you should also look into Worldmark. They are totally point based and have lots of resorts in the west (~40) and also trade pretty good (about the same as Welk)

Good Luck

PS be sure to follow the instructions for rescinding. If it say send by US mail, don't FedEx it, mail it by USPS mail.

Bill, thanks for the tips. I just finished preparing my rescission letter. The contract states it can be mailed (no specifics on how) or sent by fax. Should I do both?

With regards to travel, once I rescind this one, I am committed to not making a purchase until I am an expert on this stuff. Our primary goal is being able to have access to destinations on the West Coast, Hawaii, and Mexico, but also internationally (intend to travel to Australia, Asia, and Europe). We aren't focused on extremely high-end luxury, but prefer staying at places that are more modern. For example, I stayed at a newly remodeled Hampton Inn in San Diego that I thought was every bit as comfortable as the Ritz I stayed at in Falls Church, VA.

 

[DeniseM]

If it doesn't specify the type of mail, I'd send it registered mail, return receipt requested, and be sure you keep a copy of your post office receipt when you mail it, and a copy of everything you mail. Don't send them any original documents.

 

[yumdrey]

Alijon, you made a right decision and you're lucky to find TUG on time.
I would do both (fax and mail), and I would use USPS Priotiry mail with delivery confirmation or registered mail.
Platinum season Marriott is one of the most powerful trader in II, and Marriott owners get 21 days of Marriott priority, during that 21 days, only Marriott owners can see new (depositted) weeks. Marriott has the most locations too, if you want to visit Asia, Europe, Hawaii and many places in US, Marriott will work well for you.
Worldmark can be a good option, they are affiliated with both II and RCI, and has more than 60 resorts and most of them are on west coast. They are not super luxury (like Marriott or Westin), but have quite nice resorts in great locations. Many of their resorts are gold crown (RCI) or 5 star (II). Worldmark is not deeded timeshare, it is a point based vacation club. That means, you don't have to worry about "surprising special assessment".
You should do a lot of research before you buy anything. Find which one is the best fit for you.

 

[Bill4728]

You can often get great exchanges thru the exchange companies but as Boca says it the quote below don't count on it.

I would say that purchasing any timeshare with the expectation of getting great exchanges via a 3rd party exchange company is a recipe for disappointment.

The dominant trend in timesharing is to align with multisite resort groups typically based on points.

If you want to purchase a standalone resort, make sure you like going there because the exchange options may be quite limited.

 

[Lee B]

Alijon, you should know that we TUGers are not saying that the Welk resort you visited is a ripoff, only that today you have much better options. Interval owners who want/need to sell have no selling staff and infrastructure like the developers do, so they don't get the prices that developers get.

You can find a resale interval right at the same Welk resort for cents on the dollar, thanks to today's economy. Plus, other TS resale choices exist, such as membership in WorldMark the Club, which entitles you to annual or semi-annual points (they call them "credits") that you can spend for any WorldMark resort. Still another points-based one is Vacation Internationale.

The points are currency that you may spend on one big place for a few days or on several small places for many days and/or many visits.

One thing to know about points clubs is whether you actually buy real estate that gives the points real value or you only pay some company that promises to book you into their resorts but might just sell them off and keep the proceeds and leave members with nothing.

WorldMark the Club owns all of its resorts unencumbered. The developer and manager of the resorts, Wyndham World Wide, cannot sell the club property and keep the money. Vacation Internationale members bought the club business from the company that was not managing it well, so now it is owned and run by its owners.

I mentioned those two in particular because most of their resorts are in the West and, in fact, have a relationship that gives each one's owners some priority access to the other club's resorts.

You will have fun doing the research as you learn the ins and outs of TS ownership. We are pleased to answer questions, and TUG has tons of information on the website.

 

[Patri]

Oh alijon, we are so glad you found us. Put your extra funds (after you rescind) into a retirement account. Age 55 will be here before you know it. And 55 is not old, just in case you were wondering.

 

[alijon]

Oh alijon, we are so glad you found us. Put your extra funds (after you rescind) into a retirement account. Age 55 will be here before you know it. And 55 is not old, just in case you were wondering.

Thanks to everyone for responding. Indeed 55 is not old. In fact, I expect that to just be the start to many of our adventures and travels. Luckily, we have our retirement planning very well set up. Otherwise I would never have even considered the transaction we entered into yesterday. We feel so fortunate to be financially stable and look a timeshare as a way to encourage the one thing that we are willing to spend money on: TRAVEL.

We don't wear expensive clothes, I pack my lunch 4 days a week out of 5, and we generally are very frugal. So I would like to take the money we save in other areas and make a wise investment into travel experiences. Whether that means a timeshare program or simply finding deals on hotels, I guess I can't say for sure. But I hope that this community can be the launch point for my education! My goal is value and I intend to find the best value I can. Thanks for your help.

 

[eal]

Hi alijon,
Welcome to TUG. TUG is just the best for information about timeshares and travel. Take your time, do lots of research, and in 6 months or so when you are ready to buy you will find amazing deals at resorts that are just what you want and need.

 

[dmorea]

Suggested start to timesharing

Marriott is a good starter suggestion.
Heres a different one. As you say you want to go to Mexico take a look at the Royal Caribbean (or Royal Islander )
Its right to use and expires at the end of 2018 (Islander goes longer).It has a guaranteed buy back at 2018. The nice thing about that is it at least limits your exposure even if you get less than the full buyback amount. Right now the buybacks are supposed to be more than some units are selling for.

They trade very well, internally and through Interval. I have gotten bonus certificates for my weeks from interval each year, even in this bad environment for Mexican travel. You can lock off and rent out the studio and trade the one bedroom or treat it as a two bedroom.

Whatever you do ,buy resale!

 

[herindoors911]

Thanks to everyone for responding. Indeed 55 is not old. In fact, I expect that to just be the start to many of our adventures and travels. Luckily, we have our retirement planning very well set up. Otherwise I would never have even considered the transaction we entered into yesterday. We feel so fortunate to be financially stable and look a timeshare as a way to encourage the one thing that we are willing to spend money on: TRAVEL.

We don't wear expensive clothes, I pack my lunch 4 days a week out of 5, and we generally are very frugal. So I would like to take the money we save in other areas and make a wise investment into travel experiences. Whether that means a timeshare program or simply finding deals on hotels, I guess I can't say for sure. But I hope that this community can be the launch point for my education! My goal is value and I intend to find the best value I can. Thanks for your help.

I would rescind, and I am glad you have made that decision. Stayed at the LW Mountain Villas last year. An exchange with a Worldmark week that cost me approx. $475. The rooms were nice, but noisy!

The II bonus week certificate sounds nice, but they are very restricted.. you don't get the more expensive places showing up there, so again you made the right choice. Check out E-bay -- they always have lots of higher quality timeshare sales on there.

Besides checking out this site, visit wmowners.com -- the Worldmark site by owners for owners. If cost-effectiveness is a priority, I think Worldmark would work well for you. There are lots of resale opportunities for those too.

This year I am travelling to the Westin Kierkland and the Marriott Newport Coast -- all exchanges through II with a worldmark account.

FYI also, there are often the older Lawrence Welk Resort timeshares up for resale. I believe they are partnered with LWMV for exchanges, so you could buy a cheap one of those. However, WMark is very flexible -- most of the time you cans tay for LESS than a week, and your week/timeperiod/size of unit can be very flexbiel too!

 

[heathpack]

If trading is the key for you...

... then maybe you should think twice about whether the purchase is for you.

I will not present myself as an authority on TS-ing. We just bought TSs as resales within the past year and so far, we are happy enough. But even though I spent a fair bit of time educating myself prior to the purchase, there were some things about TSing that I did not fully realize before we bought. I'll share with you some of these things and you can take from this whatever makes sense for you.

First and foremost be aware that ultimately, in most TS systems, what you are buying is a partial ownership of a condo for a specific week in a specific location. The ability to trade within your developer's system (in your case Welk) is typically not guaranteed.

Additionally, the "powerfulness" of your deeded week is likely to evolve over time, either through changes in the level of your resort's upkeep, taste of the travelling public, differences in the manner in which a trading company views your week, etc. The availability of trades through a trading company like II or RCI should therefore be expected to change (for better or worse) over time.

Extras like AC almost certainly will change over time. Trading companies will invariably sweeten the pot for some owners and un-sweeten it for others.

If you really take a critical look at your purchase agreement, you should be able to figure out exactly what you are buying. Usually it is just a deeded week for a specific unit and that is the only thing you actually are guaranteed of getting over time.

In addition to the lack of guarantees as to any benefits except that of being able to use your deeded week, it's also important to realize that buying a timeshare does not fix costs over time. The only cost that is fixed is your intial purchase price, and if you own your timeshare for many years, the various yearly fees usually work out to be far bigger piece of the monetary pie than the purchase price. MF are usually determined by an HOA board, some of which are well-run and responsible to owners' interests and some of which are not. Lately, there have been some really high end timeshares with escalating MF costs that are so extreme that owners are giving away for free a TS that he/she spent tens of thousands of dollars for just a few years prior. Likewise, other fees (internal trades, split weeks, exchange company trades) are of course expected to increase over time. But be aware that in general, it seems that more and more types of fees are invented over time, so the total cost for fees that a TS owner pays over time may greatly exceed the pace of inflation even if each individual fee does not increase that much- the only way to avoid some of these fees is to use your deeded week.

Also, if you are interested in travelling the world, be aware that timeshares tend to be located in certain types of places- mostly "resort" places at beaches or ski mountains. Not as much in cities, national parks, Unesco world heritage sites, or out-of-the-way corners of the world.

So when does it make sense to buy a TS? Heck if I know for sure! Probably when: 1. if it came right down to it, you'd be happy to go stay in your owned unit for your owned week every year until you are 70, 2. the cash you spend for your intial purchase is not a significant amount of $ (for you)- ie if the TS must eventually be given away for free the total loss is not too much, 3. financially it will not make much difference to you if the yearly cost of ownership is $500 or $3000, 4. you are ok with owning something with unknown costs over time that you may not be able to sell very quickly in the future, 5. your family size or personal taste dicates the need for more space than you get in a hotel room, or 6. the presence of kitchen facilities make a big difference to you.

Right now, with the economy as uncertain as it is, many TS developers are hurting. Developers will likely look for ways to improve revenue and it is probable that changes will be made to some TS systems that benefit the developer at the expense of the individual TS owner. Some changes may be predictable but others may catch us all by surprise.

So my bottom line advice is: if owning a deeded week to use year after year in your specific unit at your home resort does not really work for you, then maybe timesharing in general may not work for you either. Or maybe you will take the leap, buy something, and find TSing to be absolutely perfect for your lifestyle! Once you gather more info here on TUG and elsewhere, you can decide which seems more likely for you.

Best of luck to you in making your decision!

H

 

[John Cummings]

We have been timesharing for 22 years. We used to own 2 Coastal California resorts that are not part of any chain like Marriott. Both resorts are Gold Crown floating weeks resorts and great traders. We sold one a couple years ago as we had far too many weeks banked and now prefer to vacation at luxury hotel resorts. The one we currently own is located in downtown San Diego. We have always exchanged our weeks since our initial stay at our home resort. We have used San Francisco Exchange "SFX" exclusively for the past 12 years and have always gotten great exchanges. This year we have confirmed reservations for Kona Hawaii in April and HGVC West 57th in Manhattan NYC in August. Prior to SFX, we used II and RCI. Not only do we get great exchanges at good resorts but we receive 2 bonus weeks each year.

You can buy at the resort I own for a very low price. I strongly suggest that you buy a resale at a good Coastal California resort.