Web site won't let me borrow points?

[carlbarry]

I went on-line tonight to book Bonnet Creek in September 2022. It would cost 84,000 points.
I only have 82,000 points available for 2022 (I only get 49,000 points per year).
When I clicked on reserve, a message came up. Now, I must say that with my Disney Vacation Club ownership, the message would have asked if I want to borrow points from the next use year.
But not with Wyndham. There was no option to borrow from 2023. Instead, it wanted me to rent points, at $12 per 1,000.
It's not that the $24 is a big deal, but I don't understand why I can't borrow.
And by the way, I called Wyndham earlier in the week, and was told I would be able to borrow, and I could call Saturday night as they're open to 8 pm. Well, I couldn't, and they weren't.

 

[Eric B]

I went on-line tonight to book Bonnet Creek in September 2022. It would cost 84,000 points.
I only have 82,000 points available for 2022 (I only get 49,000 points per year).
When I clicked on reserve, a message came up. Now, I must say that with my Disney Vacation Club ownership, the message would have asked if I want to borrow points from the next use year.
But not with Wyndham. There was no option to borrow from 2023. Instead, it wanted me to rent points, at $12 per 1,000.
It's not that the $24 is a big deal, but I don't understand why I can't borrow.
And by the way, I called Wyndham earlier in the week, and was told I would be able to borrow, and I could call Saturday night as they're open to 8 pm. Well, I couldn't, and they weren't.

In Club Wyndham, you can borrow points from a future use year if you are in the express reservation window (90 days) or to complete a reservation in the current use year for up to the cost of the final night in the standard reservation window (10 months). I don’t think it would work in the advanced reservation period. The problem might be that the reservation you’re trying to book isn’t in your current use year, e.g., if your use year ends on December 31, September 2022 is a future use year and you can’t borrow from the year after that. If that’s the case, you should be able to on January 1.

 

[carlbarry]

In Club Wyndham, you can borrow points from a future use year if you are in the express reservation window (90 days) or to complete a reservation in the current use year for up to the cost of the final night in the standard reservation window (10 months). I don’t think it would work in the advanced reservation period. The problem might be that the reservation you’re trying to book isn’t in your current use year, e.g., if your use year ends on December 31, September 2022 is a future use year and you can’t borrow from the year after that. If that’s the case, you should be able to on January 1.

Yes, my UY is December 31. It would have been nice if the Wyndham person I spoke to told me that instead of assuring me I'm clear.

 

[paxsarah]

In Club Wyndham, you can borrow points from a future use year if you are in the express reservation window (90 days) or to complete a reservation in the current use year for up to the cost of the final night in the standard reservation window (10 months). I don’t think it would work in the advanced reservation period. The problem might be that the reservation you’re trying to book isn’t in your current use year, e.g., if your use year ends on December 31, September 2022 is a future use year and you can’t borrow from the year after that. If that’s the case, you should be able to on January 1.

It’s not a written policy that it’s allowed to borrow points in the SRP for the final night; however, the ability to do so appeared sometime during the Covid era. I did it once to borrow points from 2023 for a 2022 reservation. It looks like maybe they’ve discontinued that unpublished benefit.

Edit: a prior thread about the unpublished benefit that may now be gone https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/borrowed-from-2023-to-complete-2022-reservation.322267/

 

[carlbarry]

HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED: I called up this morning to make the reservation. First person I spoke to couldn't understand why I was having the problem. She put me on hold to find out, came back and told me I have lost all my benefits, and transferred me to someone else. She told me I have lost all my benefits and there are notes in my file. She figured out that since I bought resale, I no longer have the ability to borrow points until 30 days from the date I want to reserve.
Now I'm wondering if a salesweasel did this when I took an "owner's update." They're always so angry when you take the update and don't buy. They are oblivious to the fact that when you check in you're told some lie about a 30 minute interview for a free gift, with no sales offered.

 

[paxsarah]

HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED: I called up this morning to make the reservation. First person I spoke to couldn't understand why I was having the problem. She put me on hold to find out, came back and told me I have lost all my benefits, and transferred me to someone else. She told me I have lost all my benefits and there are notes in my file. She figured out that since I bought resale, I no longer have the ability to borrow points until 30 days from the date I want to reserve.
Now I'm wondering if a salesweasel did this when I took an "owner's update." They're always so angry when you take the update and don't buy. They are oblivious to the fact that when you check in you're told some lie about a 30 minute interview for a free gift, with no sales offered.

I don't know why they give out inaccurate information like this. I'm all resale, and the system will let me borrow points anywhere in the Express reservation period (within 3 months, not just 30 days). I suspect if you were to try to borrow within 90 days, you'd be able to, too. However, it appears the system will now not allow borrowing at all within the Standard reservation period (10 months to 3 months) - which was never a written benefit, it was just a benefit that *appeared* sometime during Covid. So you may have "lost" that benefit, but it was never a written benefit.

What would be helpful for research purposes would be if a VIP (non-hybrid, for simplicity's sake) or at least a retail owner tested whether it allows them to borrow points in the SRP, or only the ERP. I'm going to guess that this change (back to the written policy) affects all owners.

 

[carlbarry]

I don't know why they give out inaccurate information like this. I'm all resale, and the system will let me borrow points anywhere in the Express reservation period (within 3 months, not just 30 days). I suspect if you were to try to borrow within 90 days, you'd be able to, too. However, it appears the system will now not allow borrowing at all within the Standard reservation period (10 months to 3 months) - which was never a written benefit, it was just a benefit that *appeared* sometime during Covid. So you may have "lost" that benefit, but it was never a written benefit.

The second representative I talked to dropped this tidbit: Since my use year is January 1, and you have to reserve 3 months in advance, I would have to reserve in October 2022 to stay in September 2022.
I don't know if a time machine is included in MF.

 

[paxsarah]

The second representative I talked to dropped this tidbit: Since my use year is January 1, and you have to reserve 3 months in advance, I would have to reserve in October 2022 to stay in September 2022.
I don't know if a time machine is included in MF.

I have no idea what the call center is trying to say and why they don't just explain the policy as written.

The written policy is that you can only borrow from a future use year within the Express period, or 3 months prior to check in. This applies to all owners, resale, retail, VIP, or other. It has nothing to do with your use year date. For a September reservation, it would mean booking in June. Or, you could book now (e.g. 10 months in advance, assuming check-in is prior to September 7th), and pay to rent the points you need for the last night. This is exactly the way the policy had always been until the recent unacknowledged ability to borrow for the last night within the Standard window. It sounds like that recent blip in the borrowing policy was easy come, easy go.

tl;dr The system is behaving as the written policy says it should. The call center is explaining it badly.

 

[bnoble]

I have no idea what the call center is trying to say and why they don't just explain the policy as written.

Because it takes us a good amount of effort to understand some of those rules, and we're not in a $12/hr call center job that we aren't that enthusiastic about, lasting for maybe three months before we quit and take some other job.

 

[carlbarry]

I have no idea what the call center is trying to say and why they don't just explain the policy as written.

The written policy is that you can only borrow from a future use year within the Express period, or 3 months prior to check in. This applies to all owners, resale, retail, VIP, or other. It has nothing to do with your use year date. For a September reservation, it would mean booking in June. Or, you could book now (e.g. 10 months in advance, assuming check-in is prior to September 7th), and pay to rent the points you need for the last night. This is exactly the way the policy had always been until the recent unacknowledged ability to borrow for the last night within the Standard window. It sounds like that recent blip in the borrowing policy was easy come, easy go.

tl;dr The system is behaving as the written policy says it should. The call center is explaining it badly.

Yes, you are correct. I got confused because 1. I had not encountered this before, 2. call center told me I was good to go, and 3. Disney Vacation Club has a different policy.
That being said, here was my choice for a 10 day vacation; 5 nights at Bonnet Creek, 5 nights at a DVC resort: 1. go Bonnet Creek the first 5 nights, which would include Friday and Saturday nights, and thus burn up all my 2022 points, or 2. go the last 5 nights to Bonnet Creek and have 2022 points left over.
If I had gone with 2., then most likely I would have had to pay to bank the leftover points in 2022. So by paying $24 now to rent points, I saved myself the bigger expense of banking points.

 

[WyndhamBarter]

What would be helpful for research purposes would be if a VIP (non-hybrid, for simplicity's sake) or at least a retail owner tested whether it allows them to borrow points in the SRP, or only the ERP.

OK - I just started a reservation for a 1BR at Midtown 45 for 3/23-30/2022,
a little over 4 months out. I see a 21,300 point shortfall for the required
450,000 points. The only option I was offered to cover the shortfall
was renting points at $12/thousand. Oct 1 UY. All developer (sigh), VIPF.

Switching the dates to 1/23-30 (within ERP), I was offered the choice of renting
or borrowing from my next UY.

HTH

 

[Sandy VDH]

As previously noted ERP allow all 3 choice, Rent, Borrow or use Developer (if resale type booking) However in SRP it only allows Rent.

I think use Developer (if booking a resale type booking) should also be permitted.

 

[Ty1on]

Yes, you are correct. I got confused because 1. I had not encountered this before, 2. call center told me I was good to go, and 3. Disney Vacation Club has a different policy.
That being said, here was my choice for a 10 day vacation; 5 nights at Bonnet Creek, 5 nights at a DVC resort: 1. go Bonnet Creek the first 5 nights, which would include Friday and Saturday nights, and thus burn up all my 2022 points, or 2. go the last 5 nights to Bonnet Creek and have 2022 points left over.
If I had gone with 2., then most likely I would have had to pay to bank the leftover points in 2022. So by paying $24 now to rent points, I saved myself the bigger expense of banking points.

So you are only 2,000 points shy of what you needed for option 1?

 

[carlbarry]

So you are only 2,000 points shy of what you needed for option 1?

Correct. I did decide to pay the $24 for the points.

 

[Ty1on]

Correct. I did decide to pay the $24 for the points.

A very easy decision. That cost climbs quickly when there is a larger points deficit. 20K points rental is already at $240

( I just noticed that my question was answered in your OP, but I missed it)

 

[carlbarry]

A very easy decision. That cost climbs quickly when there is a larger points deficit. 20K points rental is already at $240

( I just noticed that my question was answered in your OP, but I missed it)

Well, that's what gets me with their charges: you buy the timeshare, and it is sold as, a way to save money.
For example, the first time I was rooked into one of their presentations, before I was an owner, I was told that you can go two days here, three days there, etc. They did NOT mention that each two days here, three days there, use up a WEEK of housekeeping points. But then again, they of course never mention housekeeping points any way.

 

[Ty1on]

Well, that's what gets me with their charges: you buy the timeshare, and it is sold as, a way to save money.
For example, the first time I was rooked into one of their presentations, before I was an owner, I was told that you can go two days here, three days there, etc. They did NOT mention that each two days here, three days there, use up a WEEK of housekeeping points. But then again, they of course never mention housekeeping points any way.

When you went to your first presentation, that probably wasn't the case. Before, we got a HK point for each thousand points. If you did a lot of short stays, you could have to pay some HK, but it was per HK point, like $2.25 I think, and the extra charge wasn't egregious. I think I paid like $30something once. Now, you pay a full HK of $159 for every stay beyond your allotted HKs (1 per 70K points or something like that, I think)

 

[carlbarry]

When you went to your first presentation, that probably wasn't the case. Before, we got a HK point for each thousand points. If you did a lot of short stays, you could have to pay some HK, but it was per HK point, like $2.25 I think, and the extra charge wasn't egregious. I think I paid like $30something once. Now, you pay a full HK of $159 for every stay beyond your allotted HKs (1 per 70K points or something like that, I think)

When I bought, owners could transfer housekeeping points to other owners for free, which was a common practice. With years of experience, I don't find it surprising that a salesweasel would leave out that point.
As a matter of fact, on my first time, I distinctly remember sitting on a balcony at Bonnet Creek when the salesweasel asked me how much do I think it would cost to stay at a resort like that, and then did the math as to what it cost with the timeshare. He then walked away to let me think about it. I don't remember exactly what happened next, but I looked at his figures, and remembered that he mentioned something about something called a "maintenance fee," and that he hadn't figured that in. He then came back, and being an innocent newbie, I said "You forgot to figure in this." He was a little taken aback, and then said, "Well, it's still a bargain."