Wanting out of Club Wyndham

[tnorman]

First; so glad I found this forum. It’s amazingly sad how common the lies are that we’ve been told in the last 2+ years . The latest is paying for an ownership we won’t to be able to take advantage of. We were given temp VIP status for 3yrs for purchasing 154k points. We’ve been refusing to upgrade and now that the VIP temp status is wrapping up; we’re being told this crap. My husband and I feel like we made the biggest mistake in falling into this pipe dream. In my google search for getting out of the contract; I stumbled across their exit program. Part of me feels like it’s another trap. Any thoughts?

 

[jwalk03]

If your contact is paid off you can give it back to Wyndham through Certified Exit. If you still owe a loan on your purchase you typically cannot give it back or sell it until the loan is paid in full.

Your best course of action maybe to learn to maximize what you purchased and enjoy some vacations.

 

[bnoble]

The latest is paying for an ownership we won’t to be able to take advantage of. We were given temp VIP status for 3yrs for purchasing 154k points. We’ve been refusing to upgrade and now that the VIP temp status is wrapping up; we’re being told this crap.

What exactly are you being told?

There's no particular reason you can't continue to use the 154K you own. You bought it for a reason, and part of that reason is probably to take vacations! You can (and should) still do that. You might find that that's not quite enough points for what you want to do, and the good news is that you do not have to pay Wyndham's prices to add to your ownership, you can buy them on the secondary market for (much!) less. Don't beat yourself up about this. Many TUGgers bought from the developer, and while they recognize that they could have bought for less, they've also enjoyed being timeshare owners.

 

[kanerf]

I recently purchased 640K in Hawaii for $450, so you easily add to your 154K for a song. You will have to pay MFs of course. Wyndham is actually a pretty good system once you learn the quirks. They have a lot of resorts in many prime vacation locations.

 

[tnorman]

If your contact is paid off you can give it back to Wyndham through Certified Exit. If you still owe a loan on your purchase you typically cannot give it back or sell it until the loan is paid in full.

Your best course of action maybe to learn to maximize what you purchased and enjoy some vacations.

Thanks… yeah; unfortunately we still have a balance. We’re just over all the Sales tactics

What exactly are you being told?

There's no particular reason you can't continue to use the 154K you own. You bought it for a reason, and part of that reason is probably to take vacations! You can (and should) still do that. You might find that that's not quite enough points for what you want to do, and the good news is that you do not have to pay Wyndham's prices to add to your ownership, you can buy them on the secondary market for (much!) less. Don't beat yourself up about this. Many TUGgers bought from the developer, and while they recognize that they could have bought for less, they've also enjoyed being timeshare owners.

The sales guy mentioned with our low points we won’t see the inventory we saw with the VIP status (which I get) and 154k would not be enough points to book the 1BDRM deluxe we normally booked.

 

[tnorman]

The sales guy mentioned with our low points we won’t see the inventory we saw with the VIP status (which I get) and 154k would not be enough points to book the 1BDRM deluxe we normally booked.

 

[bnoble]

The first is hogwash. You will see exactly the same units, because points are points. There's an easy way to solve the second---buy resale!

 

[tnorman]

I recently purchased 640K in Hawaii for $450, so you easily add to your 154K for a song. You will have to pay MFs of course. Wyndham is actually a pretty good system once you learn the quirks. They have a lot of resorts in many prime vacation locations.

The first is hogwash. You will see exactly the same units, because points are points. There's an easy way to solve the second---buy resale!

Interesting… never considered resale because they made it sound as if it had to be via upgrades

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Interesting… never considered resale because they made it sound as if it had to be via upgrades

Welcome to TUG- Timeshare Users Group

@bnoble and others will give you all the information you need to maximize use from what you own
and how to add resale - if you need more points for vacationing.

 

[TheHolleys87]

Interesting… never considered resale because they made it sound as if it had to be via upgrades

More lies!

 

[jwalk03]

Your points will see the exact same inventory. Stop going to sales updates! You will not learn anything because the salesman just lie and they will always try to convince you to buy more points.

Learn to use what you purchased. You can see how many points it takes to book a unit using the directory or online. You don't need a salesman to tell you how many points you will or wont have for a particular unit. If you decide that 154,000 isnt enough then buy resale for a small fraction of the cost!!

Wyndham has many many nice resorts that you can stay in far cheaper than hotel costs these days. You just have to learn how to use the product to your advantage and learn to ignore the lying sales weasels!!

 

[Sandy VDH]

If you feel you bought a lemon, learn how to make lemonaid.

Only revenge is to use what you have. If you don't have enough points to do what you want pick up a free contract via resale. Sure you will have more MF in the long run, but you will have more points to use as well. 154K is enough for a 2 BR in Prime season at an old resort, it is not nearly enough for a newer one. So either maximize your point use by staying Sun through Thurs nights, and avoid the weekend higher point values, or travel in lower season or in smaller units.

Revenge is to learn how to play the game better.

 

[weems637]

I agree with all the above. Just don't throw away what you have, use it! Review the reasons you bought it in the first place and see if you still have the same philosophy. Paying off what you owe quickly is of the most importance. Once its paid off, then you have more options. You can then take those dollars you were spending on the initial purchase and pick up some resale points for minimal dollars to get you where you need to be for your life style. Additional maintenance fees do come with additional points. Worst case scenario, pay it off, then unload it.

Be sure to do some TUG reading now that you are here!

 

[tnorman]

Interesting… never considered resale because they made it sound as if it had to be via upgrades

I agree with all the above. Just don't throw away what you have, use it! Review the reasons you bought it in the first place and see if you still have the same philosophy. Paying off what you owe quickly is of the most importance. Once its paid off, then you have more options. You can then take those dollars you were spending on the initial purchase and pick up some resale points for minimal dollars to get you where you need to be for your life style. Additional maintenance fees do come with additional points. Worst case scenario, pay it off, then unload it.

Be sure to do some TUG reading now that you are here!

Will do; so glad I ran upon this site

 

[cbyrne1174]

You can always pick up two 3 bedroom resale deeds that trade in RCI to make use of the PIC plus program to get permanent VIP gold. The resale PICs count as 508,000 developer points and if you buy another 138,000 retail points, you'll be at 800,000 permanently with all the benefits as if you bought 800,000 directly from the developer (ever though you would only have to buy 300,000).

I personally wouldn't do this for myself because I don't need VIP benefits for my habits. But since you can't get out of what you spent already, you can either take that amount as a total loss or as half the price of getting to VIP Gold. I would have to start from nothing because everything I own is resale.

If you still have a balance, you're probably wasting a ridiculous amount on interest unless you did your own financing. For reference, the smartest way to get to VIP Gold would cost $40-45,000 in total.

I personally would never spend that much on anything besides a house, but that's just me. My biggest expense was my Disney contract I paid 7k for. Marriott was $1800 and my Wyndham was a few hundred. It baffles me how much people spend on these things. The only reason I bought mine was because it was immediate savings. I pay about 1/3 of what I used to per night before I bought resale.

 

[tnorman]

You can always pick up two 3 bedroom resale deeds that trade in RCI to make use of the PIC plus program to get permanent VIP gold. The resale PICs count as 508,000 developer points and if you buy another 138,000 retail points, you'll be at 800,000 permanently with all the benefits as if you bought 800,000 directly from the developer (ever though you would only have to buy 300,000).

I personally wouldn't do this for myself because I don't need VIP benefits for my habits. But since you can't get out of what you spent already, you can either take that amount as a total loss or as half the price of getting to VIP Gold. I would have to start from nothing because everything I own is resale.

If you still have a balance, you're probably wasting a ridiculous amount on interest unless you did your own financing. For reference, the smartest way to get to VIP Gold would cost $40-45,000 in total.

I personally would never spend that much on anything besides a house, but that's just me. My biggest expense was my Disney contract I paid 7k for. Marriott was $1800 and my Wyndham was a few hundred. It baffles me how much people spend on these things. The only reason I bought mine was because it was immediate savings. I pay about 1/3 of what I used to per night before I bought resale.

Thanks for the info…

 

[ekosiba]

I disagree with the "stop going to owner updates" advice. Just always realize this is a sales tactic to sell you more points and have the resolve not to buy. When you sit down let them know you are leaving in exactly 60 minutes even if they are still "working out those great numbers to sell you more points". When you agree to do the update, do not agree unless to get a minimum of $175 on an AMEX debit card to attend. They will initially balk at this figure but will most likely call you within 24 hrs to agree.
Nothing is more satisfying than besting them at their own game.
My wife and I have been getting $175 for the last 4 years at least 2 vacations eack year.
Go Gettem!

 

[bnoble]

$175 is much less than we would collectively charge our clients for an hour of our time---let alone spending that hour being low-key verbally abused. Then add the fact that time on vacation is worth much more than time just sitting at home, and in the words of Ted Lasso being offered tea: No thank you.

 

[r4rab]

The sales guy mentioned with our low points we won’t see the inventory we saw with the VIP status (which I get) and 154k would not be enough points to book the 1BDRM deluxe we normally booked.

As previously mentioned, VIP status does not affect the inventory you see. How many points does it take to book the 1BR Deluxe you like and where is it? You should be able to check what you can book with your points on the various points charts.

 

[HitchHiker71]

The sales guy mentioned with our low points we won’t see the inventory we saw with the VIP status (which I get) and 154k would not be enough points to book the 1BDRM deluxe we normally booked.

As others have said - stop attending sales updates. The sales and marketing division has but one unified goal - to sell the product - i.e. to sell more points. They are paid primarily on commission - and are therefore very motivated to sell the product at any cost really.

FOMO sales tactics are almost universally employed - such as what you were told about priority bookings and not seeing inventory compared to others. The only time this is true is in the ARP or if you're trying to book into specific types of inventory such as PR (Presidential Reserve) or MVC (Margaritaville) where a subset of that specific inventory will only display based upon that specific ownership type (and even then it's really not nearly as impactful as Wyndham leads people to believe based upon our actual side by side testing with owners that have those ownership types vs owners that do not). So it's one of those daze and confuse type statements that under very specific circumstances may actually be somewhat true - but for 95% of what owners do with their points - these statements are false. This is what we mean here on TUG when we say that sales will daze and confuse unsuspecting owners who don't understand the complexities of the timeshare system itself and how it really works. Our answer: don't ever attend sales updates. Moving forward, if you ever need any guidance - come here and post on TUG and we'll help you out based upon real world owner experiences - there are some extremely knowledgeable owners here on TUG that are always willing to lend a helping hand. You can also join some of the FB groups for Wyndham timeshares - but IME those groups have a lot more "noise" that you have to filter through before you get good advice when compared to TUG.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I disagree with the "stop going to owner updates" advice. Just always realize this is a sales tactic to sell you more points and have the resolve not to buy. When you sit down let them know you are leaving in exactly 60 minutes even if they are still "working out those great numbers to sell you more points". When you agree to do the update, do not agree unless to get a minimum of $175 on an AMEX debit card to attend. They will initially balk at this figure but will most likely call you within 24 hrs to agree.
Nothing is more satisfying than besting them at their own game.
My wife and I have been getting $175 for the last 4 years at least 2 vacations eack year.
Go Gettem!

The only problem I see with this approach is that there's a healthy subset of good people that don't really have the ability to repeatedly say no and to play this game. I can do it with my eyes closed because I'm a somewhat dispassionate Spock type of person, so nothing they can ever say phases me in the least. It's just a simple transaction to me - a bit of my time for WR points or a healthy gift card. I've observed quite a few other folks at sales updates over the past five years that just cannot stay objective and start getting into the weeds with the sales reps - and then it's downhill from there generally. Give them an inch and they are trained to take a mile. Just be careful if you choose to attend sales updates. Set a timer right on your phone and get up and walk out when the timer hits 60 minutes - and start the timer when the group presentation starts - not when you sit down with the sales rep after the group presentation concludes.

 

[bnoble]

The only problem I see with this approach is that there's a healthy subset of good people that don't really have the ability to repeatedly say no and to play this game.

It's worse than that.

The sales agents do this all day, every day. Even a "degenerate attendee" might do a dozen a year, tops. There's a recovery speaker I listen to a lot by the name of Russell S. One of his best lines: "When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience goes home with the money, and the man with money goes home with an experience."

No matter how smart you are, how good you are at saying no, and how well you know the product, the person sitting across the table from you has more experience. Eventually, you are likely to run into someone who can get you to doubt yourself. Even if you don't end up signing on the line which is dotted, you'll end up spending more cognitive and emotional energy than you expected to.

Which brings me back to the bigger question: what is your time (and more importantly, your equanimity) worth? I suppose if you genuinely believe it is worth less than $87.50 an hour (if you are a couple) then that gift card is worth it. It's not even close to worth it for me.

 

[HitchHiker71]

It's worse than that.

The sales agents do this all day, every day. Even a "degenerate attendee" might do a dozen a year, tops. There's a recovery speaker I listen to a lot by the name of Russel S. One of his best lines: "When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience goes home with the money, and the man with money goes home with an experience."

No matter how smart you are, how good you are at saying no, and how well you know the product, the person sitting across the table from you has more experience. Eventually, you are likely to run into someone who can get you to doubt yourself. Even if you don't end up signing on the line which is dotted, you'll end up spending more cognitive and emotional energy than you expected to.

Which brings me back to the bigger question: what is your time (and more importantly, your equanimity) worth? I suppose if you genuinely believe it is worth less than $87.50 an hour (if you are a couple) then that gift card is worth it. It's not even close to worth it for me.

I attend sales updates occasionally mostly just to keep tabs on their current sales tactics so that I can speak from firsthand experience as an admin here on TUG and on the FB groups. We used to attend sales updates much more frequently than we do nowadays. We seldom attend updates these days - as the general pattern is that FOMO sales tactics are used almost universally - the details just change over time - which are really not as important to capture. We recently attended an update up in the Poconos because of inclement weather all weekend - so we figured why not - it's worth a $200 gift card since we didn't have anything else planned as my wife spent most of the weekend in our room studying for a final exam anyways.

 

[Rolltydr]

It's worse than that.

The sales agents do this all day, every day. Even a "degenerate attendee" might do a dozen a year, tops. There's a recovery speaker I listen to a lot by the name of Russel S. One of his best lines: "When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience goes home with the money, and the man with money goes home with an experience."

No matter how smart you are, how good you are at saying no, and how well you know the product, the person sitting across the table from you has more experience. Eventually, you are likely to run into someone who can get you to doubt yourself. Even if you don't end up signing on the line which is dotted, you'll end up spending more cognitive and emotional energy than you expected to.

Which brings me back to the bigger question: what is your time (and more importantly, your equanimity) worth? I suppose if you genuinely believe it is worth less than $87.50 an hour (if you are a couple) then that gift card is worth it. It's not even close to worth it for me.

100%! If someone came up to you and your significant other on the street and said, “Will you take $175 (87.50 each) to be harassed, cajoled, pressured, etc. for an hour, and even longer if we can make you engage?” Would you do it? Of course not. My time, as well as, my mental and emotional well-being are so much more valuable to me than a few bucks.

As far as the educational aspect of the meetings, BS. Anything you need to know, with the exception of website updates and changes , are communicated to you via email or snail mail. It won’t require an hour of your time to read them.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I disagree with the "stop going to owner updates" advice. Just always realize this is a sales tactic to sell you more points and have the resolve not to buy. When you sit down let them know you are leaving in exactly 60 minutes even if they are still "working out those great numbers to sell you more points". When you agree to do the update, do not agree unless to get a minimum of $175 on an AMEX debit card to attend. They will initially balk at this figure but will most likely call you within 24 hrs to agree.
Nothing is more satisfying than besting them at their own game.
My wife and I have been getting $175 for the last 4 years at least 2 vacations eack year.
Go Gettem!

I really have a tough time understanding the “going to the sales presentation for the money” model. Aren’t you spending a lot of time and money to be on vacation? My vacation time is so much more valuable then whatever crap they would give me for a sales pitch, not even taking into account that my hourly rate at my actual job would be much higher.